Revelation of the Truth

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06-06-2006, 06:38 PM
Sir Bahamut

Look, Serapy:

Viator's theory is no good because it rests on the assumption that what is really a tiny plot hole, is vital to the entire plot. That's it. The arguments you are brining up back and forth are really not necessary, because they rest on the foundation they do.

However, the R=U theory is not plausible either, because it reads far too much into the game, and simply isn't at all plausible.

Ultimecia's main motives were, rather, a mixture of a desire to become the new God (time compression would allow her to absorb all of time and space including all the sorceress powers, making her God) and a desire to conquer her recorded fate of dying at Squall's hand (remember her death happened in her past, so it would have been recorded). That's it.

A more complete analysis of the faults of R=U, and of the just mentioned theory on Ultimecia, refer to the FAQ probably mentioned already in this topic.
06-06-2006, 06:47 PM
Serapy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Bahamut

Look, Serapy:

Viator's theory is no good because it rests on the assumption that what is really a tiny plot hole, is vital to the entire plot. That's it. The arguments you are brining up back and forth are really not necessary, because they rest on the foundation they do.

However, the R=U theory is not plausible either, because it reads far too much into the game, and simply isn't at all plausible.

Ultimecia's main motives were, rather, a mixture of a desire to become the new God (time compression would allow her to absorb all of time and space including all the sorceress powers, making her God) and a desire to conquer her recorded fate of dying at Squall's hand (remember her death happened in her past, so it would have been recorded). That's it.

A more complete analysis of the faults of R=U, and of the just mentioned theory on Ultimecia, refer to the FAQ probably mentioned already in this topic.

Ok, I understood you, I think you are right but its weird because Rinoa and Ultimecia are kinda related to me, even before I got into reading about the R=U theory for the first time then after reading, I realised why I think that Rinoa and Ultimecia are related.
06-06-2006, 06:54 PM
Sir Bahamut

Well, R=U and are related in several ways, so that's only natural; they represent the good and bad sides a sorceress can turn to (hence Rinoa has white wings, Ultimecia has black; it's classic good vs evil). Also, they have the same sorceress powers, due to the timeloop.

However, their relation simply doesn't extend to the point where they are one and the same!
06-07-2006, 07:49 AM
Viator

Quote:

Then why did Square state 'Sorceresses', instead of 'Ultimecia' to give the powers to someone else?

Because 'Ultimecia' included in 'sorceresses'.
You have to know that Ultimecia's power = Ultimecia's life.

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If you said Ultimecia can't posses Edea again then that MEANS Edea isn't a sorceress anymore

Edea is STILL a sorceress.Edea had 2 sorceresses powers inside her (Ultimecia's power and her power).And because ONLY Ultimecia's power that get inside Rinoa NOT Edea's power.That means Edea still have her power(Edea's power).So she is STILL a sorceress.

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Ultimecia can possess any sorceresses again to rely on because they have potentials and they still have powers. Finally, Ultimecia can possess Edea again, even Rinoa during the Time Compression, etc.

During time compression she is inside her own body.

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BUT, if Square lied. Then how come other FF games (NOT FF8) seem very very very very very clear to understand the whole stories, no matter if there were plots or flaws because the stories already covered them, so assuming they are telling the truths. Now you said Square has made a lie in FF8 only? That's very very very very very very weird!

Alright,first Square make Edea is no longer a sorceress as stated in the game.But I already PROVE Edea STILL a sorceress.
It's not like Square want to lie to us it's just:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viator

JUST THINK ABOUT IT!
If Square make Edea still a sorceress that would destroy the plot because at that time we would asking how Rinoa become a sorceress.
If Square make Edea is no longer a sorceress that would make a flaw, maybe some people wont notice this flaw.The flaw isthis:
Doesnt that weird that Edea doesnt know her power has gone?
She said she need to see Odine to remove her power, doesnt that mean she knows that she still have her sorceress power and she knows that she is STILL a sorceress.
That's why it would better to make Edea is no longer a sorceress because most people wont notice this flaw.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viator

Actually Square should make Edea still a sorceress but they didnt.
Even they make Edea STILL a sorceress they wont destroy the plot.(storyline).
IF they make Edea still a sorceress it would destroy the surprise we'll find later.The surprise is at the ending.

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Originally Posted by Viator

Maybe Square realised this mistake,but they just leave it because that's just the way it is.

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Originally Posted by Serapy

I'm surpised that you didn't answer my question regarding why Ultimecia chose Rinoa

I already answered that Question.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viator

As to why she chose Rinoa not Quistis or Selphie,dont ask me or anybody else you should ask Ultimecia for the answer.

Nobody can answer that question EXCEPT Ultimecia because she is the one who chose Rinoa not US.

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At least the R=U theory didn't mention that Square is lying, only your theory that thinks Square is lying (by persuading us to think that Edea isn't a sorceresses, etc).

Well I already PROVE Edea is STILL a sorceress.
You like R=U theory because you believe R=U.
Correct me if I am wrong.

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Viator's theory is no good because it rests on the assumption that what is really a tiny plot hole, is vital to the entire plot. That's it.

You said my theory is no good because you already have your own perspective about FF8,no?
I already said that plothole can destroy the real story line.
My theory here is to close that plothole to make story line PERFECT.
You dont argue with me again because you dont know what to say anymore.
If you have something to said just said it.
06-07-2006, 09:44 AM
Qurange

Actually, the choice of Rinoa has a clear canon reason--the capacity for Sorceress power is basically determined by innate magical potential. If we dip into stats, then that's 'magic' stat. Rinoa had the most potential--Rinoa got the powers, unless one of the others were specifically chosen.

The problem is that you haven't /proven/ anything, though. What you're using isn't proof; it's bad reasoning. it's saying 'look here's a flaw that I just made up! Now believe me!'
06-07-2006, 10:25 AM
Serapy

Viafor, that's what I meant. Lies and mistakes are the same anyway, so now you said FF8 has a mistake, then how come other FF8 games have no mistakes? I realised because you made an assumption with that mistake which is no good then...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viafor

I already answered that Question.

No you didn't.

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Originally Posted by Viafor

As to why she chose Rinoa not Quistis or Selphie,dont ask me or anybody else you should ask Ultimecia for the answer.

Answer that question, but you know what? You are a bit too late because Qurange already answered the question.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viafor

Well I already PROVE Edea is STILL a sorceress.
You like R=U theory because you believe R=U.
Correct me if I am wrong.

Before I knew about the R=U theroy, I got this feeling that Ultimecia and Rinoa are kind of related to each other, then when I read the theory.. I figured out why I got the feeling. Of course, I'm not saying I 100% believe the R=U theory.
06-07-2006, 12:39 PM
Sir Bahamut

Quote:

You dont argue with me again because you dont know what to say anymore.

You're absolutely right. I made all my relevant points already, but as you haven't taken any real consideration of them wht bother?
06-07-2006, 01:48 PM
Viator

Quote:

No you didn't.

That means you dont understand what am I talking about.
Actually most of your questions is not necessary.
You just need to read all my posts.

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As to why she chose Rinoa not Quistis or Selphie,dont ask me or anybody else you should ask Ultimecia for the answer.

Answer that question, but you know what? You are a bit too late because Qurange already answered the question.

I think nobody can answer that question except Ultimecia.

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You're absolutely right. I made all my relevant points already, but as you haven't taken any real consideration of them wht bother?

Why should I considering your meaningless point.

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The problem is that you haven't /proven/ anything, though. What you're using isn't proof; it's bad reasoning. it's saying 'look here's a flaw that I just made up! Now believe me!'

Come on,I already prove many times that Edea STILL a sorceress.
If you dont get it,that's your problem.
06-07-2006, 03:58 PM
Qurange

I'll be sure to tell the established rules of argument and debate that they're wrong, then, Viator. Have fun with your theory.
06-07-2006, 04:01 PM
Christmas

Since this is already a freaking new page, I think I will start looking at your preaching from this new page filled with TRUTH.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viator

Doesnt that weird that Edea doesnt know her power has gone?

NO.

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She said she need to see Odine to remove her power, doesnt that mean she knows that she THINK she still have her sorceress power and she ~~knows~~ THINK that she is STILL a sorceress.

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Nobody can answer that question EXCEPT Ultimecia because she is the one who chose Rinoa not US.

INDEED, INDEED. SQUARE IS THE ONE THAT INTEND THE GAME THE WAY IT IS NOT YOUR TRUTH.

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Well I already PROVE Edea is STILL a sorceress.
You like R=U theory because you believe R=U.
Correct me if I am wrong.

Same applies to you.

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You said my theory is no good because you already have your own perspective about FF8,no?

So is you.

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I already said that plothole can destroy the real story line.

You see that thing as a plothole that can destroy the real story line while I dun.

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My theory here is to close that plothole to make story line PERFECT.

NOTHING IS PERFECT, NOT YOUR TRUTH NOR THE GAME.

Quote:

Originally Posted by First page of this TRUTH

Let`s just say of all sorceresesses

See, a spelling mistake. Your theory isn't perfect. How can something imperfect produce a perfect product?

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You dont argue with me again because you dont know what to say anymore.
If you have something to said just said it.

Sure, same applies to you. Let's see what you usually reply when I shower you with my reasoning filled with love and care:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viator

Whatever.

There must be almost 73843294032th times of this. See, I can count very well.

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Come on,I already prove many times that Edea STILL a sorceress.
If you dont get it,that's your problem.

Oh...how rude. Let me rephrase this.

Come on, your theory isn't convincing enough and doesn't have any solid proof except reasoning from you yourself which you believe its the truth. (But seriously, you cannot tell the differences between "belief" and "truth". I read the other thread "The Truth about Seifer")

If you don't get it, that's your problem and dun make your problem our problem.
06-09-2006, 02:48 PM
Viator

Quote:

I'll be sure to tell the established rules of argument and debate that they're wrong, then, Viator. Have fun with your theory.

You see,I already said before you people often to say:
"I dont believe your theory bye bye."
So far I already explain and prove many things.
And I already answer many questions with good answer.
And you people just ignore my answers.
And start give poor excuses to destroy my theory.
At least give me a question just Christmas did.

Quote:

Doesnt that weird that Edea doesnt know her power has gone?

NO.

Why you just said NO.
Why dont you give the explanation.

Quote:

INDEED, INDEED. SQUARE IS THE ONE THAT INTEND THE GAME THE WAY IT IS NOT YOUR TRUTH.

Whatever Christmas,have it your way.
Christmas, it just weird you suddenly changed like this.(Maybe not)
I think the last time I answer your questions.
And after I answer your questions,you suddenly turned out like this,why?

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So is you.

Whatever.

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Well I already PROVE Edea is STILL a sorceress.
Same applies to you.

I already PROVE Edea STILL a sorceress,and you dont believe it that's weird doesnt it?At least tell me why you dont believe it.(I already answer your good questions many times.)

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She said she need to see Odine to remove her power, doesnt that mean she knows that she THINK she still have her sorceress power and she knows THINK that she is STILL a sorceress.

You have to read Sir B explanation then.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Bahamut

Actually Edea WAS talking of her own powers (the ones she didn't have that is), as evidenced by this line:

Edea: ......... In the meantime, something must be done to suppress my powers... (from Game Script at GameFAQs).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viator

Edea said "My power" that means she is STILL a sorceress"

Edea mean that she is still a sorceress.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christmas

You see that thing as a plothole that can destroy the real story line while I dun.

If you dun,that means you have no idea what you are talking about.
The game said Edea is no longer a sorceress after the ending BUT I already prove that Edea isSTILL a sorceress.That means after the ending Edea STILL a sorceress.And you still cant see it?That's wierd.

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NOTHING IS PERFECT, NOT YOUR TRUTH NOR THE GAME.

Whatever.

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See, a spelling mistake. Your theory isn't perfect. How can something imperfect produce a perfect product?

It doesnt matter as long people can understand what I am talking about.

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Sure, same applies to you. Let's see what you usually reply when I shower you with my reasoning filled with love and care: Whatever.

I dont see love and care at all,NOT for me.
Anyway,what's wrong if I say "whatever"

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There must be almost 73843294032th times of this. See, I can count very well.

Really...

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If you don't get it

You people is the one who dont get it.

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that's your problem and dun make your problem our problem.

Then what the use of this forum?

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Come on, your theory isn't convincing enough and doesn't have any solid proof except reasoning from you yourself which you believe its the truth.

NO.
That only mean one thing:
You dont understand my theory.You always ignore my theory and make poor excuses to destroy my theory.THAT'S ALL.

Quote:

(But seriously, you cannot tell the differences between "belief" and "truth". I read the other thread "The Truth about Seifer")

I dont really care the differences between "belief" and "truth".
If that bother you,I dont care it's none of my business.
And please dont speak the truth to me again because your truth is not what I am looking for.

Christmas as far as I can see you only give your POOR EXCUSES to destroy my theory.Even you ever ask good questions.
06-09-2006, 03:39 PM
Arrianna

Well I've really enjoyed laughing at this. Believe it or not I'm not going to argue either. I'm just going to quote someone from another thread that sounded very wise to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reddragon

What the storyteller think of is the answer

...and as far as I'm concerned that answers everything. :D

(Am I the only one who thinks it's hilarious when someone tells the author what they meant?)
06-09-2006, 10:35 PM
Ryushikaze

A tip, Viator: Simply quoting yourself and insisting it is so does not make it so. Repitition does not make someone true.

Your new story is non-parsimonious, and based around a 'plot-hole' that is easily explained into nothingness by some in character ignorance.
06-10-2006, 01:15 AM
Christmas

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viator

Christmas as far as I can see you only give your POOR EXCUSES to destroy my theory.Even you ever ask good questions.

Quote:

Your new story is non-parsimonious, and based around a 'plot-hole' that is easily explained into nothingness by some in character ignorance.

Quote:

The problem is that you haven't /proven/ anything, though. What you're using isn't proof; it's bad reasoning. it's saying 'look here's a flaw that I just made up! Now believe me!'

That really depend on what made up the theory and nothing can destroy the truth if it really is.

Quote:

Anyway,what's wrong if I say "whatever"

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You dont argue with me again because you dont know what to say anymore.
If you have something to said just said it.

You should really stop acting like you are high up above and had "win" over all of us with your theory of truth.

If you are really so good, you cannot even handle what you claimed to be "poor excuses"?

Lastly, people will believe in your theory if its convince them,if it doesn't, endless amount of preaching won't do.
06-11-2006, 08:03 AM
Viator

Quote:

What the storyteller think of is the answer

...and as far as I'm concerned that answers everything.

NO,that only answer your stupidity.

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A tip, Viator: Simply quoting yourself and insisting it is so does not make it so. Repitition does not make someone true.

You are wrong.
You maybe good at words but not good at understanding.

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Your "new story" is non-parsimonious.

You said that because you dont understand my "new story".

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and based around a 'plot-hole' that is easily explained into nothingness by some in character ignorance.

It maybe nothingness to you but not to the story line.

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That really depend on what made up the theory and nothing can destroy the truth if it really is.

You are right nobody can destroy my theory (Truth).

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You should really stop acting like you are high up above and had "win" over all of us with "your theory of truth".

Wow that is the first time you said "my theory of the truth".
But anyway,whatever you say Christmas

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If you are really so good, you cannot even handle what you claimed to be "poor excuses"?

I dont want to argue with your POOR EXCUSES because it's useless.
If I argue with your POOR EXCUSES we are not talking about my theory again we are talking something unnessecary.

Quote:

Lastly, people will believe in your theory if its convince them,if it doesn't, endless amount of preaching won't do.

You think people are all the same.
People believe or dont believe it all comes down to circumtances.
People will believe my theory if they understand my theory.
And as far as I can see you still ignore my theory and keep talking about your POOR EXCUSES.

You dont even ANSWER any question from my previous post.

You see now Christmas, you go around again with your POOR EXCUSES.(Please stop that)

To be nice why dont we stop talking about these POOR EXCUSES.Why dont you ask question like the last time and I answer it.
Know what,I really like your questions.

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