Public Service Announcement: Never allow wonders when playing against Lost Number. I was minutes away from victory.
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Public Service Announcement: Never allow wonders when playing against Lost Number. I was minutes away from victory.
I'll have to remember that one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Manus
Now the match is over, with me winning, i want to tell you everything, rather than what I could say.
My plot for a while was to build a wonder. My main idea was to fool Manus into thinking I was trying to occupy him while my one relic got me gold. Via selling my wood and food I got the gold and stone I need to wall off a space for it. The space was also made out of reclaimed forest. My army of bombards, trebs, champions, missionaries and conquistadores defended it. I also found a use for the villagers - they are, for the spanish with supremacy, the ultimate trash unit. Plus the psychological effect of having the gate which I had been sending my trash army (my aim wasnt to leech his gold, he had 4 relics) against for a considerable time destroyed by my villagers was probably more effective. He did indeed try to cut me, the first was spotted when i tailed a villager, the second arrived too late for my wonder victory, but could well have caused havoc against my forward defences. The disadvantage of the black forest maps are that, in 1v1, they often leave it so that you are bottlenecked once or even twice. In ours, we had both sealed off bottlenecks (mines with bombard towers, his with Keeps and Castles) leaving no mans land in between. There was little outright confrontation in this game, unlike the mass battles we had during our first match, and Manus is downright furious that I used a wonder.
*phew*. I have terrible aging times, generally, so i dont stand much hope against more experienced players. But I would love to try you, even if it wouldnt last past castle age.
EDIT: Manus is just fed up because he thought he set the game to conquest only and therefore didnt act til it was already up.
Hartman, any time.
I'll have to try after a few glasses of wine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost Number
I know I have Age of Kings somewhere. I'll need to go find it when I get a chance.
Also, have any of you played Age of Mythology?
Wow, Lost, you automatically fail for building a Wonder as a means of victory. Seriously. Play like a man. It shouldn't take too much to beat Manus with trash armies, anyways. But it's better to see Manus lose.
As for replays, I can't get them because I don't have MSN, but if you have an ancient AIM account, I can get it from there. I'd play you myself, but I no longer have my CDs in my possession.
FFS, Age of Empires is a strategy game, and AS SUCH I can use strategy. Its not considered cheating to cut down trees in black forest, so i dont see why I get stick. Manus just failed because he didnt have the skill to attack my base.
I needed another 10 minutes and your ass was going down :( I had my troops ready and everything
Urgh, you git, Manus. Mayans versus Goths. My towers, archers, castles, all fell to :skull::skull::skull::skull: on his huskarls. My last minute eagle warrior attack was fun though.
Trees are perfectly valid to cut or use at your whim. It's the Wonder I disapprove of.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost Number
Wait... they are complaining because you used a wonder victory against the goths when you were mayans?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost Number
Goths vs Mayans is an unholy matchup. The mayans have almost no easy way to counter them.
I don't care how many archers you have Huskarl can just walk all over them(well you can do the out micro thing with hit and running but that is tough with foot archers(actually, are plummies faster than huskarl? I never tried that before)).
As mayans your only real chance to win in military vs an equally skilled player is to have archer and siege[I think mayans get heavy scorps... and they can be used against just about anything] support with Eagle Warriors[I think an El Dorado Eagle warrior can beat a huskie one on one, the problem is huskies are produced 3 times as fast and are only half the gold cost... that and the eagle warrior doesn't win by much].
Therefor, one should in such a situation hole themselves up and wait for reinforcements(if in a team game), hole up and wait for gold to run out(since you can at least fight the halbs on semi-even ground), or hole up and try for another kind of victory.
Thus a Wonder Victory was a good choice in that setup.
*applauds Lost Number*
I think this is a different matchup, Shun. The Wonder game was before this game, I perceive it to be. Doesn't seem like Lost is gloating happily about Mayans/Goths, since he was probably Mayans.
Huskarls are still faster than Plummed Archers, but not by a whle lot; you could easily consider them the same speed. Huskarls < Eagles, though. Mayans have access to the entire Siege techtree, except cannons (duh), which means they have Maxed Scorpions and Maxed Onagers.
Even with El Dorado, a Mayan Elite Eagle Warrior cannot defeat an Elite Huskarl one on one, unless he got in an extra hit, or they were both not elite (and even then, winnared). However, Perfusion and Anarchy, the two Gothic uniques, make them train faster and at barracks; but without them, Huskarls are roughtly the same speed as Halberdiers, maybe a bit slower. No cavalry is good game versus Goths, since Goths even have cannon-ness-age-ish-nisch.
Also, Perfusion only applies to Barracks units, I believe. Castle Huskarls do not get the Perfusion bonus, only Conscription. Besides the Villager, Perfused/Conscripted Huskarls are the fastest made unit in the entire game at the barracks. Mayans don't have Champions, but they do have Halberdiers, which makes for a good trash army.
That's 20 (team bonus +20 to barracks) + 50 (Perfusion) + 15 (Conscription) percent training speed, versus the Castle's 15%. And worst of all, they are CHEAP, as is Anarchy and Perfusion, compared to some other uniques I could name.
How a Mayan would win against a Goths, I'll never know. Britons, maybe, since they have the range to outlast, but not Mayans. Alternatively, the Mayans and the Aztecs can take advantage of their religion, which last I checked, has close to full. Everything that one needs, perhaps except Herbal medicine.
EDIT: The Mayans do not have Redemption (Monks convert buildings), Siege Onagers, or Illumination (50% mana regeneration for Priests). Goths lack the ever important technology, Heresy. Even with Faith, Goths will fall like bricks on a sock at uncle Jeb's house, with rare beef and a spork.
Hmm... I took it as he was gloating because he pulled an upset win(after all as noted the goths vs mayans is a mismatch). Maybe I was wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tavrobel
hmm.. well shows you how much I play mayans I thought their plummie was slightly faster than average foot units(though maybe huskies are too).Quote:
Originally Posted by Tavrobel
Which is really the mayan's only chance against a goth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tavrobel
That is odd, I could have sworn that I read a test some where that showed that EEW's would come on top with a few hp's to spare. Hmm.. Now I am going to have to test this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tavrobel
I am not sure on speed, but I recall reading that EEW's are 15second units and the Huskarl are around 5second units(with all upgrades of course). Making the Huskie one of the fastest produced units in the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tavrobel
Actually when I read about the mismatch I did some search in strategy archives. Which is where most of my info that I gave in my last post came from. I don't really play goths or Mayans so I had to look elsewhere for the info to get some advice for it. The combo that I mentioned was just about the best anyone could come up with. Afterall you can't win with massed halbs(after all, the goths could make them faster), so you have to find some way to beat back the horde. Seige(scorps), EEW's, and archer support(for the champs that usually accompany the huskies, or for any cav they might have, the EEW's server a couple options... they can go toe to toe(though you lose out cost effectively there) at least semi effectively with huskies and they can attack the siege if the goths build any.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tavrobel
Britons also have champs and cavs(cavaliers if I recall right) which can REALLY help against the huskies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tavrobel
*smacks head* Monks... yes they could be handy. Though this would make me feel the lack of monk bonuses that the aztecs have.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tavrobel
As a note, what types of matches are these? Are they Post-Imp? If so the mayan-goth was a real mismatch. But if it was a Black forest Standard(dark age) start then mayan's can beat goths(flushing and the like, can't let the goths get to imperial... and ideally you would keep him out of castle).
The wonder victory was Japanese (me) vs Spanish. I'm still seething!
I see. Heh, more understandable then. Particually since the Spanish have the advantage against the Japanese(both Conqs and Hand Cannoneers have infantry bonuses. That and if I recall in the 1.0c patch(not sure if it was there before the patch) the Spanish have faster firing Bombard Cannons and Hand Cannoneers[or at least it says that in the Civ info screen].
Anyways I just tested the Gothic Elite Huskarl vs Mayanic Elite Eagle Warrior. Both fully upgraded. The winner was......
Neither. It is a complete toss up. Whoever is lucky enough the first hit wins. Therefor, EEW's can be a non-cost effective way to fight Huskies. However, at least you got something that can fight them.