Pretty sure he says that about every new manager of a big club.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
Printable View
Pretty sure he says that about every new manager of a big club.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
"First Maggie Thatcher Dies Then Alex Ferguson Retires, Somewhere In The World There's A Scouser With A Lamp And One Wish Left"
You mean like the future manager of Manchester United FC...? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoBPretty sure he says that about every new manager of a big club.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
Now, spare me your ad hominem "urrr it's because you support Liverpool!" gibberish, because, well, those in glass houses first of all re: your views on Rafa Benitez, but also because I'm defending the honour of a team I hate more than any other. Including Everton! Now, look, I'm not saying Moyes is a trout manager. He's done a good job at Everton. But let me put it this way.
- Does he have experience of the pressures of managing a huge club - media, fans, etc?
- Does he have experience of winning trophies?
- Does he have experience of European football and playing against the biggest clubs in the world on huge nights?
- Does he have experience of the pressures of being involved in a title race?
- He may have expierience of buying good footballers at reduced amounts (although for the record, 2 of his 3 biggest signings were Yakubu and Bilyatindinov!) but does he have experience of buying world class footballers for world class fees?
- Does he have experience of managing world class players with huge egos? (you may note his falling out with Mr Wayne Rooney!)
No to every single one. And that's why Moyes is not suited for a monstrously huge club like Man United. You can say"well we won't know if he can do these things unless he tries!" if you want but we also don't know if Neil Warnock can do these things until he tries, so... :monster:
A final word, there's a reason why he has never won at Anfield. Because he sits 11 men behind the ball and plays for the draw. That's why. It works for Everton, sure, and it helps them punch above their weight. Do you honestly think that trout will fly at Manchester United? Do you really think that is going to win titles? Changing a managerial philosophy isn't simply a matter of clicking a few tactics buttons on football manager.
I smurfing hate United with a passion and it sickens me to say this, but they are too good for Moyes.
I think that's probably precisely the reason they'd go with Moyes in the first place. Anything is going to be a step down from the greatest club manager in the history of the game. If they bring in Mourinho and it all goes to buggery without Red Nose at the helm, the trout storm would be colossal. So they can just bring in some random bum like David Moyes under the provision of "look how well he did at this club despite having nothing" and then if it all goes well and he manages to cope at United, lovely, everything is rosy. If the post-Taggart United fall to pieces, "Well, we took a punt..." and now it's time to bring in the big guns when the expectations are lower and the manure fans are over the whole "WHY ISN'T EVERYTHING AS GREAT AS IT WAS WHEN SIR ALEX WAS HERE URRRR WE'RE THE BIGGEST CLUB IN THE WORLD WE HAVE HISTORY" thing.
Just read something on BBC and will mention that Klopp, someone you mentioned for the role, had a worse record than Moyes did before Dortmund took him on. Why him over Moyes? No matter who we go with, it's a massive gamble. Dan's right on that regard. Again, I'm not saying I'll be gutted if we get Mourinho or Klopp or anyone, they're great. But to say Moyes has nothing on them is naive. You conveniently failed to respond to my query regarding whether there is anyone out there who can do so well with so little for such a long time. If he actually has money, who's to say he won't do even better? Seems to me the guy can find good players, create good players and develop good players from youth. He knows the proper tactics to get the points he needs to shoot above his club's financial weight, he knows British football, he's not going to run off to another country at the drop of a hat. Until you give a Klopp a shot at a big club, we'll never know what he's like at a big club. He's currently at a Europa club, and I'd love to see him in a Champions League club.Quote:
Originally Posted by PsychoticYou mean like the future manager of Manchester United FC...? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoBPretty sure he says that about every new manager of a big club.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
Now, spare me your ad hominem "urrr it's because you support Liverpool!" gibberish, because, well, those in glass houses first of all re: your views on Rafa Benitez, but also because I'm defending the honour of a team I hate more than any other. Including Everton! Now, look, I'm not saying Moyes is a trout manager. He's done a good job at Everton. But let me put it this way.
- Does he have experience of the pressures of managing a huge club - media, fans, etc?
- Does he have experience of winning trophies?
- Does he have experience of European football and playing against the biggest clubs in the world on huge nights?
- Does he have experience of the pressures of being involved in a title race?
- He may have expierience of buying good footballers at reduced amounts (although for the record, 2 of his 3 biggest signings were Yakubu and Bilyatindinov!) but does he have experience of buying world class footballers for world class fees?
- Does he have experience of managing world class players with huge egos? (you may note his falling out with Mr Wayne Rooney!)
No to every single one. And that's why Moyes is not suited for a monstrously huge club like Man United. You can say"well we won't know if he can do these things unless he tries!" if you want but we also don't know if Neil Warnock can do these things until he tries, so... :monster:
A final word, there's a reason why he has never won at Anfield. Because he sits 11 men behind the ball and plays for the draw. That's why. It works for Everton, sure, and it helps them punch above their weight. Do you honestly think that trout will fly at Manchester United? Do you really think that is going to win titles? Changing a managerial philosophy isn't simply a matter of clicking a few tactics buttons on football manager.
I smurfing hate United with a passion and it sickens me to say this, but they are too good for Moyes.
Moyes certainly won't sit 11 men behind the ball with United unless he wants to get the sack. :p
EDIT: Dude, Ferguson has a falling out with a Mr. Wayne Rooney. It's not like that's a hard thing for a manager to do. xD
Manchester United are bigger and more successful than Borussia Dortmund. Apples and oranges.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
Because he won the German title and is now in the CL final. Moyes has not won any titles or even got to the first round of European competition. Yes, yes, Dortmund took a chance on him and he's proven himself. Nobody's taken a chance on Moyes. Maybe there is a reason for that... :) Manchester United should not be a club to take chances on potential. They can get the finished article.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
To say Moyes is anywhere near as good as Mourinho or Klopp - or Rafa god damn Benitez - is naive.Quote:
But to say Moyes has nothing on them is naive.
Because it's not relevant. Also, Dario Gradi. :greenie:Quote:
You conveniently failed to respond to my query regarding whether there is anyone out there who can do so well with so little for such a long time.
Now who's being naive?Quote:
If he actually has money, who's to say he won't do even better?
And how many of those players are of Manchester United quality? Good is not the same as world class, which is what United is aiming for.Quote:
Seems to me the guy can find good players, create good players and develop good players from youth.
I guarantee those tactics will not punch above Manchester United's financial weight. See: Allardyce, Sam.Quote:
He knows the proper tactics to get the points he needs to shoot above his club's financial weight
Sam Allardyce again.Quote:
he knows British football
...Klopp is at a CL club. :confused: Unless you mean David Moyes and in which case, they're not even a Europa League club. They haven't qualified for the past four seasons... unless a miracle happens and they overtake one of the London clubs this year. And anyway, again, we won't know what Sam Allardyce is like until he's at a big club. Why not him?Quote:
Until you give a Klopp a shot at a big club, we'll never know what he's like at a big club. He's currently at a Europa club, and I'd love to see him in a Champions League club.
Well I guess he better click the "tactics" button.Quote:
Moyes certainly won't sit 11 men behind the ball with United unless he wants to get the sack. :p
Well Wigan lost. Gives us room to breathe!
Well at least now we know if we don't make top four, it'll be because we messed up against Wigan and/or Newcastle. And if we do that, we don't deserve CL football anyway. In the meantime, I'll have to support Stoke on the weekend. How horrible.
I agree with Psychotic on the Moyes love-in. Never understood it. Been there 10 years and achieved smurf all. "But he has no monies!!1" is an argument you can apply to any team not in the top 6 (not to mention it's absolute bulltrout). Swans just won the league cup in their second season and spend a fraction of Everton's spending bill; nuff said.
Johnny Nic puts it into the back of the net again:
Moyes Has Done Sod All To Deserve This... | John Nicholson
And he supports Middlesbrough, Daniel, in case you want to level accusations of bias. ;)
How is it bulltrout? The club has a £46m debt and spends 78% of their cash on wages. Compare that to £0 debt for Swansea and 54% on wages... I'd say the Swans aren't in a bad position financially. Sure, they spend less on wages than Everton do, but don't go thinking Everton has the cash to compete with Manchester United. Only Swansea (and not by much, btw), Wigan, Southampton, Reading and Arsenal have spent less on transfers than Everton have on a per season average since 2003. For a club that has finished in the top half of the PL table so consistently, Everton has bugger all cash to spend - almost 80% of their cash is spent on wages. There's no room to keep big time players, and if Moyes had the room to spend money on wages to the point that he could retain Rooney, who knows where they'd have ended up? Of course, it looks like even United can't afford to keep Rooney these days. :rolleyes:
League Cups are luck of the draw, not a sign of being the best club in the country. I'd take league position over league (or even FA) cups, personally. Swansea are doing very well, though, but I wouldn't say that's all down to the man who won them the league cup. He's only been there for one season, hasn't he? United were never going to pick a guy based on a single season. I imagine the biggest interest from United will be in how well a manager can keep the entire club stable over a long period of time, not just a first team for a single season.
Just not sure there are that many available managers around who can make such claims outside of Moyes.
Still, nobody will know how he'll turn out at United, just like nobody knew Klopp would put Dortmund where they are and nobody knew that Pep would do so well at Barcelona. Moyes has a better record than both of these had at the top level (well, let's face it, Pep had no record at all) before they took on the clubs they had so much success at. He might fail, yeah, but he might not. I'm sure even if he does well, though, some people out there will just say what they said about Pep... "Oh, anyone could have won with that team." :p
Everton fans would disagree. As a Liverpool fan, I disagree. As a modern United fan you will never possibly understand this. Well, you might now with Moyes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
I can tell you about every single League Cup victory Liverpool FC have had since I was a fan. 1995, 2-1, Bolton Wanderers. Steve McManaman tore them apart. 2001, Birmingham City, penalties - wasn't on TV so I listened to it on the radio in the bath, Birmingham radio station was going wild for Andy "AJ!!! AJ!!!" Johnson until he fluffed a penalty. 2003, MANCHESTER UNITED HA HA HA, Jerzy Dudek! 2012, Cardiff City, Stewart Downing somehow won man of the match. All of those days have great memories and meaning to them. I will remember them for the rest of my life.
Ask me what position we finished in, say, 2003. Couldn't tell you. 1998? Don't have a clue. There is literally no difference between finishing 6th and 17th in English football. It's meaningless. Hell, if my memory is anything to go by, finishing 3rd is meaningless. I know we've done that lots of times but I couldn't tell you when. I've seen us finish 2nd - 8th and to me I'd take 8th every bloody year if I could have more memories of us lifting trophies.
Enough about me, though. You ask an Everton fan if they would've been happier putting us out of the FA Cup in the semi final and going on to win it or finishing above us in the league. Where's Heath?
Fair enough, although I'm talking as United fan who is fighting for 1st (which I suppose you could count as a cup) rather than an Everton fan fighting for 4th. Either way, what I'm getting at is that I'd rather we win the league by having a manager who can hold us together over a full season rather than winning the League Cup and coming 3rd.
I don't want a manager to come in because they can win us a knockout tournament, I want a manager to come in who can win us the league.
Yes, I'd rather win the League than the League Cup. Of course. That's silly talk otherwise. But if you don't win the league - and Everton aren't particularly likely to - who cares? I'll finish 17th and win the FA Cup or Europa League.
Also, I don't think you can compare Pep Guardiola to Moyes. Guardiola was Barca through and through, spent years there as a player and coach, and knew their systems inside out. It's like when Kenny Dalglish was made Liverpool player-manager. He was actually very successful and won the league, believe it or not! Moyes is an outsider. Maybe he'll come in and succeed, but it's not a similar comparison imho.
On the plus side, he has Van Persie. Wigan would be challenging for the CL with Van Persie! :p
Not sure if that was intended as a massive backhand to Arsenal, but you definitely succeeded. :p