God bless America's finest.

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They didn't find any weapons of mass destruction, and now they are becoming the new tyrants. Well done!

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O_O

How can you say that? This torture is a particular case, USA is by no means acting as an invasion, but as a liberation. Look at the solidary reconstruction of the country, where assets destroyed are being rebuilt by solidary allied multinationals, that care a lot for the iraqi people and by no means intend to expand their ultra-capitalistic system through the country by leeching them.

Democracy is so wonderful! :D

I guarantee you that a very large number of Iraqis aren't looking at the Americans as liberators right now.

When you force your way into a country, fighting and destroying as you go, it's an invasion, no matter how good your intentions are. That's just how it is. Most especially to the people over there, and most especially now.

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Originally Posted by The Man

I guarantee you that a very large number of Iraqis aren't looking at the Americans as liberators right now.

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Are you telling me that? In that case, I must tell you my post was sarcastic.

... Your face is sarcastic!

Eh, I cant tell sarcasm in the text. Sorry.

I usually can, but in this case I really couldn't tell if you were being sarcastic or not.

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Originally Posted by TheAbominatrix

... Your face is sarcastic!

Eh, I cant tell sarcasm in the text. Sorry.

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In real life, I tend to be sarcastic every time I express an opinion, I already explained the reasons for that here, althogh sometimes I do it just because I am plain annoying.

Plus, I post a lot here, I thought my sarcasm was obvious, I kinda not change my opinion on this invasion from one day (or hour) to another. In fact, I don't even believe this war on Iraq has "good intentions". In fact, I consider it plain imperialistic (Economically, I repeat, economically).

But just in case, next time I'll be sure to use my friend Roll Eyes: :rolleyes2

I think its messed up how Bush blame Donald Rumsfeld, and was about to fire him. Same with the democrates seizing the moment. I think Rumsfeld doesnt need to apologize for what other people do, he can not control them but only give them orders. I think these guys that did the ''torturing'' be now shot to, since it gives us a ''bad'' image through out the middle east.

People often look for a scapegoat, someone they can scold and criticise for the actions of others. Politicians are a natural target.

However, the press have lately been taking note of Rumsfeld's earlier comments - back before the war - where he praised the effectiveness of UN sanctions, for effectively preventing Hussein from rebuilding his WMD stockpile. Further evidence that Bush knew there was no real threat posed by Iraq's military; that could be another incentive to Rumsfeld's removal.

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I think these guys that did the ''torturing'' be now shot to, since it gives us a ''bad'' image through out the middle east.

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The US's image in the Middle East was already bad; this just made it worse. However, I feel that those responsible for the criminal acts should be tried and judged in the appropriate way, simply because they committed atrocious acts - "image" is irrelevant compared to human suffering.

As Big D said, the US is already looking pretty bad. This just made it much, MUCH worse.

This makes me insanely mad. The one person standing on a box (Not the flat side), with his head covered and with wires connected to his body was told by the soldiers that if he fell off the box which was difficult to stand on, he would be electrecuted, They were, of course, lying. Yet still, that is considered torture.

And now I despise this war twice as much....

I saw Secretary Rumsfeld's response on tonight's news; frankly, it was the best response yet delivered by one of the 'big-wigs' in this situation. He also apologised for the actions of those men, something that even President Bush didn't do. I'm hoping Rumsfeld won't be made the whipping-boy for this situation... which is actually getting worse by the minute.
New photos and film have been released to the top-ranking military, allegedly showing the rape of a female prisoner, further fatal and near-fatal beatings, and images of US soldiers watching Iraqi detainees raping children. Apparently, some of the soldiers were under orders to "soften up" the prisoners for interrogation... and this is their idea of how to accomplish that.

I shudder to think at how widespread and systematic this abuse has become, but a US general was appalled to realise that the actions of the soldiers in the photos seemed to indicate it was nothing unusual, just "another day at the office" rather than an alarming event. I could see what he means, too - in a number of those pictures, uninvolved soldiders are just casually strolling by without batting an eyelid. It seems this might've been going on even longer than it appeared.

How many of those prisoners are genuinely guilty of crimes, and how many were implicated after simply being in the wrong place at the wrong time? It's bad enough that legitimate captives should receive this kind of treatment, but for it to happen to complete innocents as well is beyond unthinkable.

Until we get an official report from the pending investigation, I think that a lot of things we'll hear and see will be rumor and conjecture. The media tends to feed off sensationalism, so we might be getting a biased view on the matter.

Punishment should be just, but certainly not swift. Like Big D said, some people could just end up as whipping boys, and nobody is yet entirely sure how far up these screw-ups' chain of command this went. A thorough and exhaustive investigation should be in order.

I believe the investigation is supposed to take around 40 or so days, which may or may not be good. Perhaps they'll get the information that is being sought, but at the same time, that's 40 more days of speculation for the public, the media, and both sides of the political spectrum. I hope that we can get through this time and actually get to the bottom of this, and not let it fester or be forgotten when a "new" story/scandal breaks.

Take care all.

There's nothing today's media enjoys more than scandal/corruption/human suffering. They'll do anything they can to boost the sensationalism, with this matter as with everything else.

Indeed, the only reasonable response will be a "thorough and exhaustive investigation". The public might want to see someone punished now, and it might be good PR to do so; but unless the accused are given a fair trial and due process of law, all we'll be seeing is another unjust, illegal act. "Innocent until proven guilty" must still apply. Besides, arbitrarily punishing a few individuals will leave the majority of the offenders out there, unpunished and probably free to continue their depraved acts.