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To add to that all protestants could be considered, by definition, "liberal" because theirs is a church that broke from the original Roman Catholic church.Quote:
What the problem is, is that people claim to be liberal when they truely are not... it is the same with Christianity and almost any other label.
liberals cannot abolish christainity. noone can. no much as we can abolish milk or the common cold. how would you abolish it? suddenly tell people it no longer exists so they can stop going to church?
are people who are against tax and saying that it is theft honstly telling me that if they weren't taxed they would give their money to chairty, the poor and good causes? or would you keep it for a nice new tv? would all people do what the bible tells you and share what you have? i seriously doubt it.
another bible quote which should come into people's view on abortion and homosexuality are "judge lest ye be judged" "let the man with no sin cast the first stone" as well as the others i gave.
not having ready access to a bible i don't know the chapter and verse of the destruction and rebuilding of the jewish temple in 3 days up on jesus's death.
jesus did tell magdalane to stop sinning but he took her in all the way through his life and was there at his death. she was a sinner who many people could claim "deserved it" but was forgiven by the holiest man. the man without the plank in his eye.
it is unwise for a christain to judge a person. it is not your duty. there is no law but god's law and no judge but him. don't be the man to cast the first stone on homosexuals or abortionists.
christainity does not need to be used for a moral argument. morality exists beyond christainity. you can be highly moral and even more so than a christain with some other religion or being atheist. all other religions when it comes down to it preach the same moral code. christianity should not be the alpha and omega of morality. and so is not required for politics.
And why so? Should Christianity be the most important thing in your life, but be cast aside when it's time to stand up on the floor of Congress or go to the polls?Quote:
3.Liberal or conservative.doesnt matter you can still be in a religion and pratice politics seperate form religion(were it should be).
Which is why they can't mention it without cursing and are trying to outlaw any non-obscene mention of it. Now I understand...Quote:
That's a load of crock. Most liberals couldn't care less about Christianity, or any religion for that matter, so long as it stays out of government, as well it should.
Really? Well, I'm trying to change abortion law, the current attitude of government towards Christianity, the existence of the National Endowment for the Arts, and our entire tax system--help me!Quote:
I am certian that I got enough definitions to assume that all that "liberal" means is that one is open minded and willing to accept change.
If you don't know the difference between "liberal" and "conservative" as political groups, then just ask--there's no need to play semantics.
Nobody's saying that spending money on good things is bad. Our problem is spendin someone else's money on things we think are good. If I take a gun and steal your paycheck, then buy my neighbor a few groceries with it, then I didn't do a good thing--and you aren't doing a bad thing by reporting my butt and having it thrown in jail.Quote:
1.advancement in society
2.social programs
First, I've seen a lot of welfare recipients--like I've mentioned, when I was in college I worked at a grocery store and watched these people pay with their WIC vouchers or their EBT cards--and the vast majority of them are not some poor girl that got abandoned with four kids. The majority of them live better than I do; they have better clothes, eat better food, drink more beer, and drive better cars.Quote:
3.and BTW there will always be mothers who was left iwth 4 kids who depends on welfare.MY cousin was one of them.Her husband was crazy he jsut does all this stuff ro her then leaves.LEaves her with 4 kids.But yeah that never happens liek you said,
Second, there's nowhere else your cousin can go? Her church can't help her out? Her family? Her neighbors? No charities anywhere around? If she's a Baptist--or even if she isn't--tell her to go to the local Baptist Association. I volunteered with them for a summer and I know firsthand that they'll help you out--money, vouchers for stuff, food, medicine, transportation--be you white, black, yellow, red; Baptist, Catholic, atheist, wiccan, whatever.
Did the trick fairly well in Russia, China, Cambodia, Cuba, Vietnam...Quote:
liberals cannot abolish christainity. noone can. no much as we can abolish milk or the common cold. how would you abolish it? suddenly tell people it no longer exists so they can stop going to church?
Fortunately, we have experience to tell us about it. During the 1980's, when taxes lowered, charitable contributions rose at a faster rate than the two and a half decades beforehand.Quote:
are people who are against tax and saying that it is theft honstly telling me that if they weren't taxed they would give their money to chairty, the poor and good causes? or would you keep it for a nice new tv? would all people do what the bible tells you and share what you have? i seriously doubt it.
Or for the short version--yes.
There is no verse upon the destruction of a Jewish temple. Jesus once said "Tear down this temple and in three days it will rise again" in reference to His own death and resurrection, but not only is there no actual building being torn down, it certainly wasn't torn down for the "crime" of having gold in it.Quote:
not having ready access to a bible i don't know the chapter and verse of the destruction and rebuilding of the jewish temple in 3 days up on jesus's death.
And did He steal someone else's money to give to her?Quote:
jesus did tell magdalane to stop sinning but he took her in all the way through his life and was there at his death. she was a sinner who many people could claim "deserved it" but was forgiven by the holiest man. the man without the plank in his eye.
You seem to be confused here. I'm not casting stones--or throwing fake blood (like is sometimes done to wearers of fur coats), or firing bullets, or whatever else. I'm simply saying that a) we shouldn't be forced to pretend it's right, and b) murder shouldn't be legal.Quote:
it is unwise for a christain to judge a person. it is not your duty. there is no law but god's law and no judge but him. don't be the man to cast the first stone on homosexuals or abortionists.
False. Completely false, in fact--I suggest you look up a few different religions and note the differences therein.Quote:
all other religions when it comes down to it preach the same moral code.
Put in account that those people most likely got those form a friend thats most likely poor our bought it from smugglers.Quote:
First, I've seen a lot of welfare recipients--like I've mentioned, when I was in college I worked at a grocery store and watched these people pay with their WIC vouchers or their EBT cards--and the vast majority of them are not some poor girl that got abandoned with four kids. The majority of them live better than I do; they have better clothes, eat better food, drink more beer, and drive better cars.
And the fact that your saying ii'm casting it aside hell no F that.I dont to sit here and let you say that.It doesn't leave but when it comes to looking at these policticians and how they are acting.They dont even think of god.even when they sosay so.The polls or speaking on congress floors even when your not a congress has nothing to do with throwing your christains values aside for htat momen.tYou know Iwhat I meant hwen i said politics and religion should stay seperate.
YOu know what politics is.Politics has never been for the greater good of people even when it hides behind a religion.Why because humans practice politics and when they get behind the religion to pratice there politics only corruption shows.So don't ever play dumb like that with me!!! why because I'm freaking 17 an dyour like twice my age and oyu definately know it if i know it.
oh and BTW China still has christains.Yeah so what that they are being prosecuted no christain church here does anything to help them you notice that?
And our out of your right mind to think that taxes "steal" money.TO goto someone oyu think is waaaaaay better off than you do.
Taxes goes into a lot of things and if you were truly a christain wouldn't you speak out against the death penalty and speak out against how prisons recieve more fundings form tax dollars than schools do?
"They" meaning all liberals? Give me a break. That's the extremist minority.Quote:
Which is why they can't mention it without cursing and are trying to outlaw any non-obscene mention of it. Now I understand...
Those would be despots, not liberals. There's quite a difference.Quote:
Did the trick fairly well in Russia, China, Cambodia, Cuba, Vietnam...
I'll read the rest and address it later when it's not 2:30 AM.
okay lets think about what would happen if we got rid of these taxes which people count as theft.
upon doing this. where does your army that defends you get it's money? the school to educate you and your children? the roads which you drive on? the water that you drink? the hositals that treat you? rubbish collection? the pension that you get? your politicians and diplomats? the police on your street? customs and security? the orphangage and social services? nasa?
britain didn't have a welfare state 100 years ago and i studied the development of it. the immense difference it meant. this liassez fair attitude that america currently had is dead in this country. you cannot leave these things to churches and private groups to do. you need something solid that will always be there for someone to fall back on. next people will be telling me that the work houses were a great idea.
yep the whole world would be better without those damn taxes. all the money i would have. yeah but when i got sick or assualted or when i want to go to uni or when i'm old o every tuesday when my rubbih gets collected or need a drink or want to drive that isn't invaded or in anarchy. then i'll be less happy.
lordblazer beat me to the point about not being to abolish a religion. and in fact that is banning it or outlawing it.
of course charity money will rise faster if people have more to money to flash around. but not all of it so some was kept for that nice new thing you just couldn't afford. it would be the same now. but that was not the question. would if that nasty government stopped stealing your money wouyld you follow the bible's teachings and share it out? would all others do the same?
and yes you should pretend it's right. it's not your duty on this earth to say it isn't. if it is a sin then justice will be done by your god not by you. if god is the ultimate judge let him judge do not do it by proxy.
abortion could be debate endlessly. but if it was outlawed and mothers did not want their children then possibly abuse deaths would rise. neglect would rise. abortion would just be carried out after the fact. yes adoption is possible. but care homes are stretched enough as it is. yes they could be alot better with funding but then people would only whine on about taxes. no matter what age, country or condition there is no way to force a woman to be a mother.
And that friend managed to get their own name on it?Quote:
Put in account that those people most likely got those form a friend thats most likely poor our bought it from smugglers.
In that case, what you have is a dishonest politician. The answer to that is better, unfettered media to report such things, not demanding that people keep the most important thing in their lives out of an issue.Quote:
And the fact that your saying ii'm casting it aside hell no F that.I dont to sit here and let you say that.It doesn't leave but when it comes to looking at these policticians and how they are acting.They dont even think of god.even when they sosay so
Politics is a method. It's the method that brought us the "War on Poverty", free needles, abortion, and a whole other host of ills--but it's also brought us tax cuts, removal of various regulations, and our Constitution and Bill of Rights itself.Quote:
YOu know what politics is.Politics has never been for the greater good of people even when it hides behind a religion.
Stuck in slave-labor camps for the crime of being Christian. "so what"?Quote:
oh and BTW China still has christains.Yeah so what that they are being prosecuted
http://www.persecution.org/newsite/index.phpQuote:
no christain church here does anything to help them you notice that?
http://persecution.com/
http://www.christianpersecution.info/
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_pers.htm (and a display of their evenhandedness and "tolerance" by blaming persecution of Christians on "followers of majority religions")
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2003/003/6.46.html
And I could as easily list three dozen more. In other words, before you accuse someone of something you should have some clue what the hell you're talking about--and you clearly don't. Maybe you and Cloud 9 should discuss how Chinese persecution of Christians ties in with the US's genocide in Africa?
Actually I'm displaying the simple facts of the matter. Either you pay it or someone comes to your house with a gun to get it. That's a form of theft.Quote:
And our out of your right mind to think that taxes "steal" money.
Actually, to first have about three-quarters of it lost in the works. Then to go to someone I know is way better off than me.Quote:
TO goto someone oyu think is waaaaaay better off than you do.
Yup. Welfare, the National Endowment for the Arts, the IRS, midnight basketball, pork-barrel projects of every size and description--that's one of the reasons they're bad.Quote:
Taxes goes into a lot of things
Because real Christians want to see repeat-murders.Quote:
and if you were truly a christain wouldn't you speak out against the death penalty
Actually, I do. Prisons get far more money than they should--Cable TV, weight rooms, free college... I could have gotten a better college education by robbing a bank than I did by joining the Army.Quote:
and speak out against how prisons recieve more fundings form tax dollars than schools do?
On the other hand, I don't think schools should get a dime from the government. For the government to indoctrinate our kids is bad enough, but to do it with our money is adding insult to injury.
And where is your justification that "if I was truly a Christian" I'd advocate going light on criminals and government indoctrination for our kids?
The New York Times is an extremist minority? Jesse Jackson? Time Magazine? NewsweekQuote:
"They" meaning all liberals? Give me a break. That's the extremist minority.
First, they were not just despots, they were Communists (yes, real Communists). And liberalism is simply watered-down communism.Quote:
Those would be despots, not liberals. There's quite a difference.
Second, I was pointing out that it was possible, not who's doing it.
Including the explosion of prosperity once everyone actually has a right to what they earn?Quote:
okay lets think about what would happen if we got rid of these taxes which people count as theft.
Herein, it may be necessary to explain further. While taxes are, by their very nature, theft, there are indeed times when it's necessary--i.e., to carry out those functions which the government actually has the duty and the right to carry out. A military is one of those--although the federal government has overstepped its bounds by federalizing each state's National Guard.Quote:
upon doing this. where does your army that defends you get it's money?
The one that's being left in the dust by private and charter schools that have a lot less money to operate with? Public education is a neat idea, but after seeing public housing, I think I'll pass.Quote:
he school to educate you and your children?
Another of the functions which government is actually responsible for--despite this, in many area gas taxes (which, in theory, pay for the roads) are abysmal, and the roads absolutely blow.Quote:
the roads which you drive on?
We don't get these from the government. And seeing how well the government does things, I hope they stay out of the business.Quote:
the water that you drink? the hositals that treat you? rubbish collection?
Nor do pensions come from the government. Unless your speaking of Social Security, and if you're claiming a system so flawed it's guaranteed to fail before any of us get a dime from it as one of the government's accomplishments, then you're really reachin'.Quote:
the pension that you get?
What a horrible thought, that we might end up with less of those...Quote:
your politicians and diplomats?
A third--but not paid for by federal taxes. The town, county, or state covers these.Quote:
the police on your street?
These are for collecting taxes, not paid for by them.Quote:
customs and security?
Orphanages are paid for by charitable organizations, not the government. Same with social services--those that the government does pay for are invariably wasteful, bloated, and unnecessary.Quote:
he orphangage and social services?
Its job is being done by private companies already.Quote:
nasa?
That's why America is blowing your country out of the water.Quote:
this liassez fair attitude that america currently had is dead in this country.
Because when you want somebody you can depend on, then forget about God--go to a politician.Quote:
you cannot leave these things to churches and private groups to do. you need something solid that will always be there for someone to fall back on.
Yeah, because the government needs more than half of what you make to provide all those services that it doesn't provide anyway.Quote:
ep the whole world would be better without those damn taxes. all the money i would have. yeah but when i got sick or assualted or when i want to go to uni or when i'm old o every tuesday when my rubbih gets collected or need a drink or want to drive that isn't invaded or in anarchy.
You mean some of these people would actually spend some of the money they earn on themselves? Oh, we can't have that!Quote:
of course charity money will rise faster if people have more to money to flash around. but not all of it so some was kept for that nice new thing you just couldn't afford.
Actually, the question was "are people who are against tax and saying that it is theft honstly telling me that if they weren't taxed they would give their money to chairty, the poor and good causes?"--which is why I answered by noting that when they were taxed less, they gave more to charity. Or in other words--yes. I've explained this already.Quote:
but that was not the question.
You're serious, aren't you?Quote:
and yes you should pretend it's right.
And, of course, speaking of God's judgement is oh-so-awful, because instead He should just open up the clouds and shout "Suck the ****, lose the kingdom!" When the rain comes, can I say "it's raining", or would that be "judging" the weather?Quote:
it's not your duty on this earth to say it isn't. if it is a sin then justice will be done by your god not by you. if god is the ultimate judge let him judge do not do it by proxy.
These children might be hurt or even killed later in life--so let's just squikk 'em now, and save 'em from all that.Quote:
abortion could be debate endlessly. but if it was outlawed and mothers did not want their children then possibly abuse deaths would rise. neglect would rise.
Because nobody but the government takes care of kids....Quote:
yes adoption is possible. but care homes are stretched enough as it is. yes they could be alot better with funding but then people would only whine on about taxes.
Well, it's a good thing you feel that way.Quote:
no matter what age, country or condition there is no way to force a woman to be a mother.
Now, if we could get back to the subject at hand for a moment, nobody's forcing anyone to become a mother. I'm talking about preventing a mother from killing her kids.
But if we're ever struck by a plague, and the government passes a law that for the continuation of the human race every woman has to have at least three kids, then at least we know your feelings on the matter.
Jesse Jackson is very extremist. As far as the New York Times, Time Magazine, and Newsweek, I've not seen anything in any of those respective publications to support your claim.Quote:
The New York Times is an extremist minority? Jesse Jackson? Time Magazine? Newsweek
No, it's not. Liberals can be communists and communists can be liberals, the two are not intertwined. As has been stated countless times before, a "liberal" is a social progressive, whereas a "conservative" is a social traditionalist. There are many things that we associate with liberals and conservatives but really its all just a bunch of stereotypes and misconceptions spawned from the minds of an unaccepting society that refuses to actually examine anything they disagree with.Quote:
First, they were not just despots, they were Communists (yes, real Communists). And liberalism is simply watered-down communism.
Second, I was pointing out that it was possible, not who's doing it.
Check page of this thread and you'll see a few quotes.Quote:
As far as the New York Times, Time Magazine, and Newsweek, I've not seen anything in any of those respective publications to support your claim.
In that case, then pick a platform of communism, as listed in the Communist manifesto, water it down slightly, and take a look at it--you'll be looking at a liberal platform.Quote:
No, it's not. Liberals can be communists and communists can be liberals, the two are not intertwined.
You know how close I was to just spurting out a string of profanity?
Come now. Without public schooling most people in my area would be uneducated... including myself. Several of my freinds have to work 8+ hours a day, plus whenever the manager/boss calls them just so that my freinds can help their parents support their family!
I seriousally doubt they have the money neccesary for private schooling. And anyways what I have seen and heard of public schools in my general area... well lets just say this... my school isn't the only one that out performs them. And this is, overall, a poor area. The people with money send them to the Private school. Oh yes did I forget to mention that the private schools in this area have more money then many of the public schools. Yet all I hear is carping.
Rural public schools are not bad at all, and let me tell you they aren't a waste of your tax money. The problem with schooling is when you get too many pupils per teacher, and/or bad teachers.
So yeah.. sure tose out those who's families are less off and can't afford private schools.
As for the other services. They need fixing.. not neccesarily complete removal. They are good ideas, just not utilized correctly.
Now I am not sure about prisons per se.. but I have been to our local correctional facility which acts as a holding/transfer bay for the prisons in our area. They on occasion hold dangerous fellons up to 6 months.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Redneck
Anyways. They have no weight room and no cable tv. though they did have the tv at one point it was taken away because the head saw no reason for it.. that and some of the prisoners wouuld occasionally break a tv. So they just got rid of the tv. The Jail does have a recreation area.. mainly for stuff like basketball, jogging, etc. Depending on their behaviour they'll lose it... as it is I think even min security gets only 4 hours max a day(though I could be wrong on that instance.. didn't really care at the time.. how often they got out). Also I had a freind there... and lets leave it this way... the amount of food you get is bare minimum... and it is almost always beans. Worse then school food I was told.
Now as for the college things... I believe that is there so that they can become productive members of society after they are released... though the jail only offers the GED(if I recall correctly).
however I don't know how effective that is... who wants to hire a known felon? unless the government bribes you into it of course.
Blah.. I could go on forever.. but I will say this. This jail is supposedly unique... or so the warden guy tells us.. and so do our teachers.
Ah but quotes do not an entire news medium make.Quote:
Check page of this thread and you'll see a few quotes.
I admit Democrats tend to be more socialist than Republicans but I've already said Democrats aren't exactly liberals. Liberalism and Conservatism are both social constructs, economics are another thing entirely.Quote:
In that case, then pick a platform of communism, as listed in the Communist manifesto, water it down slightly, and take a look at it--you'll be looking at a liberal platform.
in short my perspective of the two groups which will really seem immature.
Jedi Order=Liberals
The Dark Side=Conservatives.
wellt hats my last post *prepares for the stones*
eest has covered for my butt already. Read his post regarding this.Quote:
nik0tine, you started off by saying you're a liberal "Christian", then went on to badmouth Christians, saying we're easy to control and that we hate people and hide behind the Bible. While it is not my place to question your faith, and that's not what I'm doing, you are a prime example of the people that lead people to think Christianity is not a partisan religion. If anybody truly believed the Bible--and no, I'm not talking about hiding behind it, I'm talking about believing it--they would go nowhere near modern liberalism.
Did I? Before you answer that question, go back and read through my statement. If you come up with an answer aside from "no" you don't understand my point.Quote:
Something that I find to be offensive? Well, I did, but note that you were explicitly referring to Christians with both those comments--there was no need to "turn" it into something anti-Christian. Sorry, but it already worked--and you did the work on it.
You're Christian, so that difference is irrelevant. Supporting war and supporting the death penalty directly contradict Christian values. The fact that you could support any of this and still call yourself a Christian makes you a hypocrit. You claim to believe one thing, and then support something else. It's as if you're taking aQuote:
I would hope that you can see the difference between putting convicted murderers to death and killing infants because they'd be an inconvenience. If not, don't worry--there are folks who can.
on the bible.
I must ask you this, why aren't you opposed to all forms of taxation? After all, it's theft, is it not?Quote:
But He didn't talk about stealing the guy's wealth and sharing it on his behalf.
His point was that generally Republicans aren't out to help anybody but themselves.Quote:
Because conservatives don't ever touch lepers....
How so? Because they support taxation? The only anti christian things I can think of are abortion and gay marriage. It's understandable for a christian to oppose those things, but to believe that the whole of liberalism is antithetical to christianity is a joke. (Well, it's only a joke when you believe that modern conservatism relates to christianity in any way other than thier anti abortion stance)Quote:
Modern liberalism is antithetical to everything in the New Testament--which is why it's so hostile to it.
I agree that welfare needs revision, but let me ask you this: What would happen to the poor if there was no welfare? They would get NO support. Nobody would help them. The reason welfare exists is because people refuse to help the poor. There is simply not enough kind hearted people out there to get the job done. Now, if the Christians would truly live a christian life, we wouldn't have that problem. But you quoted somebody who said it best. "Christianity is a crutch for the weak minded". While this certainly does not apply to all, it applies to many. The weak minded don't care about anyone but themseleves.Quote:
You take money away from someone by force, spend most of it on yourself, and throw a few scraps someone else's way.... yes, He would.
The modern christian has no room in thier hearts for 'forgiveness'.Quote:
the point with mary magdalane was that it was her fault. but she was forgiven, redeemed and taken in. the same should be done with people that you claim deserve their poverty.
He did, and that's what made Jesus great. However, most christians wouldn;t even bother to go even that far.Quote:
Wierd--and it looked to me like He stopped them from killing her and told her to quit sinning.
You can, but you should first try to remedy your own hipocrasies first, which most christians don't even try to do.Quote:
Which means, of course, that we can't ever speak about what someone else does, right?
But that means less power!!!! :whine:Quote:
3.Liberal or conservative.doesnt matter you can still be in a religion and pratice politics seperate form religion(were it should be).
But... but... but how are we going to get out hatred fix?? :whine:Quote:
don't be the man to cast the first stone on homosexuals or abortionists.
Nothing you have said is true. While there have been some instances where people have gone over the line in regards to christianity, nobody is trying to put a ban on the mention of christianity. Also, the vast majority of us don't go cursing and throwing a fit when christianity is mentioned. We may, however, not agree with you one hundred percent (and have valid, logical reasons not to). I can understand that you don't like that, but maybe you are confusing that with the cursing?Quote:
Which is why they can't mention it without cursing and are trying to outlaw any non-obscene mention of it. Now I understand...
I honestly cannot comment on China, Cambodia, Cuba, or Vietnam, but I can ASSURE you, Christianity was not abolished in Russia. Proof of that can be seen today (Where Christianity exists)Quote:
Did the trick fairly well in Russia, China, Cambodia, Cuba, Vietnam...
There is no need to answer this, just think about it. When it comes to homosexuals, what do you feel? Just something for you to think about.Quote:
You seem to be confused here. I'm not casting stones--or throwing fake blood (like is sometimes done to wearers of fur coats), or firing bullets, or whatever else. I'm simply saying that a) we shouldn't be forced to pretend it's right, and b) murder shouldn't be legal.
Allow me to answer this question for the majority of Christians in this world (And I'll do so with tremendous accuracy) No.Quote:
would if that nasty government stopped stealing your money wouyld you follow the bible's teachings and share it out? would all others do the same?
Wait! Don't forget to include the "War on Terror" and the "War on Drugs"Quote:
Politics is a method. It's the method that brought us the "War on Poverty", free needles, abortion, and a whole other host of ills--
And conservativism is simply watered-down fascism.Quote:
First, they were not just despots, they were Communists (yes, real Communists). And liberalism is simply watered-down communism.
Because fake Christians thrive off of hate.Quote:
Because real Christians want to see repeat-murders.
And so how do you expect to get educated? If it wasn't for the government funding education nobody would get educated.Quote:
On the other hand, I don't think schools should get a dime from the government. For the government to indoctrinate our kids is bad enough, but to do it with our money is adding insult to injury.
Hahaha. So "going light on criminals" is not killing them?Quote:
And where is your justification that "if I was truly a Christian" I'd advocate going light on criminals and government indoctrination for our kids?
Please tell me you don't really believe this nonsense. Is the abscenes of schools, roads, a military, plumming systems, law enforcement, food, easily accesible drinking water as well as a load of other things an "explosion of prosperity"?Quote:
Including the explosion of prosperity once everyone actually has a right to what they earn?
But is the amount of charity even remotely proprtional to welfare?Quote:
which is why I answered by noting that when they were taxed less, they gave more to charity.
The Bible itself says not to judge. You can believe in Gods judgement, but you shouldn't be the one passing judgement.Quote:
And, of course, speaking of God's judgement is oh-so-awful, because instead He should just open up the clouds and shout "Suck the ****, lose the kingdom!"
Oh please... You know damn well what the Bible meant. This hardly merits a response and you know it.Quote:
When the rain comes, can I say "it's raining", or would that be "judging" the weather?
You might want to specify the page you are talking about.Quote:
Check page of this thread and you'll see a few quotes.
Oh but who cares about you anyway. You're poor. /republicanQuote:
I seriousally doubt they have the money neccesary for private schooling.
Not a hundred percent sure what you are talking about, but if you mean that public schools outperfom private schools, well, you are wrong. Public schools suck major balls. In fact, it's an attrocity that public schools are in the state that they are. It's a crime against our society, in my opinion.Quote:
And anyways what I have seen and heard of public schools in my general area... well lets just say this... my school isn't the only one that out performs them. And this is, overall, a poor area. The people with money send them to the Private school. Oh yes did I forget to mention that the private schools in this area have more money then many of the public schools. Yet all I hear is carping.
Yes they are, and I know this from personal experiance. Public schools are bad news. The problem is not just too many students per teacher and bad teachers, everything is problematic with them. In fact, after having attended both private and public schools, I am convinced that somebody is intentionally trying to make us stupid.Quote:
Rural public schools are not bad at all, and let me tell you they aren't a waste of your tax money. The problem with schooling is when you get too many pupils per teacher, and/or bad teachers.
Mmmm...I can comment on Cuba. And as far as I know, it was never abolished. However, Christmas wasn't officially celebrated until 1998. Officially celebrated dosen't mean it couldn't be celebrated privately, it just meant the goverment didn't consider it a special day.Quote:
I honestly cannot comment on China, Cambodia, Cuba, or Vietnam
As for Cuba, well, when I was there I saw churches, I saw people praying, I saw crucifixes inside some houses, etc.
And as for those countries, hardly could you consider those people "liberal". They were absolute authoritarians. Left in economical policies, but politically authoritarian. The less authoritarian of the list may be Cuba, and it still has several rigid laws and death penalty. The liberal left would never abolish Christianity. The most far thewy could go is to reduce the public money the church recives.
Five bucks says you'd get away with it.Quote:
You know how close I was to just spurting out a string of profanity?
You do realize that public schooling requires tax money? That money doesn't just flow out of the government... well, it does, but it comes from somewhere else first. You get rid of the public schools and give the money back to the people paying it, so they can educate their children.Quote:
Come now. Without public schooling most people in my area would be uneducated... including myself. Several of my freinds have to work 8+ hours a day, plus whenever the manager/boss calls them just so that my freinds can help their parents support their family!
And the best way to fix them--to utilize them correctly--is to let the private sector do it before the government can screw it up.Quote:
As for the other services. They need fixing.. not neccesarily complete removal. They are good ideas, just not utilized correctly.
Because you can't be a productive member of society unless you have a college education. You can't flip burgers or work construction or something until you're done with college?Quote:
Now as for the college things... I believe that is there so that they can become productive members of society after they are released...
Hell, we made one president.Quote:
however I don't know how effective that is... who wants to hire a known felon?
So this is what they say, but it's not really what they say?Quote:
Ah but quotes do not an entire news medium make.
Come to the Dark Side.... I promise you great power....Quote:
Jedi Order=Liberals
The Dark Side=Conservatives.
wellt hats my last post *prepares for the stones*
Because Christians, apparently, aren't allowed to look at the world around them.Quote:
You're Christian, so that difference is irrelevant.
Because Jesus said "thou shalt let the terrorists blow thy butt up, and toss serial murderers in jail where they can be out in a few years to murder you again."Quote:
Supporting war and supporting the death penalty directly contradict Christian values.
2nd Opinions, chapter 4, verse 6
Keep in mind--"moron" is bad. Who wants to bet you'll see nothing for "you're a hypocrite" and "you're taking a **** on the Bible"? Any takers?Quote:
The fact that you could support any of this and still call yourself a Christian makes you a hypocrit. You claim to believe one thing, and then support something else. It's as if you're taking a on the bible.
Yes, it is. However, there are some purposes which make it necessary. Therefore, it only makes sense that the purposes for which tax money is stolen should be as few and as necessary as possible.Quote:
I must ask you this, why aren't you opposed to all forms of taxation? After all, it's theft, is it not?
Which is obviously false, but if he can go around what he's saying I can to. Just because I usually abhor tact doesn't mean it ain't fun to play with sometimes.Quote:
His point was that generally Republicans aren't out to help anybody but themselves.
Because their statements show their hatred of Christianity. Because liberal judges make outrageous judgements against Christianity, and liberal organizations push for more such judgements. And may I note that you are liberal and in this post alone you've made your hatred of Christianity quite evident?Quote:
How so? Because they support taxation?
Because churches and charities don't actually help anybody. Hell, it sounds like you actually believe the BS you're spouting about Christianity here--can you at least give American synagogues the benefit of the doubt?Quote:
agree that welfare needs revision, but let me ask you this: What would happen to the poor if there was no welfare? They would get NO support. Nobody would help them.
First, the reason welfare exists is because LBJ wanted to buy some votes.Quote:
The reason welfare exists is because people refuse to help the poor.
Second, if its purpose was to help the poor, why didn't it work? Welfare spending rose exponentially, and the number of poor rose. Simple common sense--if you want to see more of something, subsidize it.
Because Christians approve of vigilante action--is there some Christian version of The Protocols of the Elders of Zion that you've been reading and I haven't heard about yet?Quote:
He did, and that's what made Jesus great. However, most christians wouldn;t even bother to go even that far.
Because protecting innocent people is hypocrisy? Is this some new definition of hypocrisy, like that "closed-minded" pulp?Quote:
You can, but you should first try to remedy your own hipocrasies first, which most christians don't even try to do.
"Well, it's only a joke when you believe that modern conservatism relates to christianity in any way other than thier anti abortion stance"Quote:
Also, the vast majority of us don't go cursing and throwing a fit when christianity is mentioned.
"But you quoted somebody who said it best. "Christianity is a crutch for the weak minded"."
"The modern christian has no room in thier hearts for 'forgiveness'."
"He did, and that's what made Jesus great. However, most christians wouldn;t even bother to go even that far."
"You can, but you should first try to remedy your own hipocrasies first, which most christians don't even try to do."
"Allow me to answer this question for the majority of Christians in this world (And I'll do so with tremendous accuracy) No."
No cursing allowed on these forums, but you've certainly managed to throw a fit....
Now that the Communists are gone. Before then you could get shot for it.Quote:
I honestly cannot comment on China, Cambodia, Cuba, or Vietnam, but I can ASSURE you, Christianity was not abolished in Russia. Proof of that can be seen today (Where Christianity exists)
Sad. There are people out there with a sexual disorder who need help, and some SOB is out there telling them that instead of getting the help they need they should flaunt their problem. Hell, I care more about 'em than you do, or you'd be tryin' to help them too.Quote:
There is no need to answer this, just think about it. When it comes to homosexuals, what do you feel? Just something for you to think about.
And let me note that I've already proven otherwise. Answered? Yes. Accuracy? No.Quote:
Allow me to answer this question for the majority of Christians in this world (And I'll do so with tremendous accuracy) No.
Because it would be so much kinder to just turn Muslim, start stoning our women to death, and let them murder Jews.Quote:
Wait! Don't forget to include the "War on Terror".
You see, there's more to this 'debate' thing than making a name and labelling your opponent with it. For example--as I've already noted, but apparently you weren't paying attention--pick a tenet--any tenet--of communism. Weaken it (i.e., water it down), and you have a tenet of liberalism. Go ahead--try it!Quote:
And conservativism is simply watered-down fascism.
Because there's no such thing as private schools, religious schools, or charter schools. Please tell me you weren't being serious when you said that--because if you are we're going to have to stop debating until we both live in the same reality.Quote:
And so how do you expect to get educated? If it wasn't for the government funding education nobody would get educated.
I've noted the necessity of roads, military, and law enforcement--although the government manages to screw those up too. The government doesn't provide food, plumbing, or drinking water, and while it provides schooling, it shouldn't--and does an abysmal job with the schooling it does provide.Quote:
Please tell me you don't really believe this nonsense. Is the abscenes of schools, roads, a military, plumming systems, law enforcement, food, easily accesible drinking water as well as a load of other things an "explosion of prosperity"?
It was enough to do the job before LBJ.Quote:
But is the amount of charity even remotely proprtional to welfare?
Uh, God's already made the judgement. Wanna see the verses?Quote:
The Bible itself says not to judge. You can believe in Gods judgement, but you shouldn't be the one passing judgement.
Yes, I do. And there's no clause in the Bible that says you can't note an existing condition. If you don't see the allegory inherent, that ain't my problem.Quote:
Oh please... You know damn well what the Bible meant. This hardly merits a response and you know it.
You could actually look for it--but to make it easier, page 2, post #36. And that was only a small selection of them.Quote:
You might want to specify the page you are talking about.
Naw, they just throw you in prison or shoot you for it, but it's not actually abolished. *sigh* It's such a relief to know I was wrong.Quote:
Mmmm...I can comment on Cuba. And as far as I know, it was never abolished.