United States: One Nation under ...??...

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11-30-2005, 10:39 PM
The Summoner of Leviathan

Seriously, we only learned the first verse, we learn nothing more of it. At school we sang the first verse only; we were taught only that verse.

BTW when I say French anthem, I meant the French national anthem of Canada...*sighs*...Me bad...
11-30-2005, 10:45 PM
Endless

I'm pretty sure I learnt more than the first verse in school (although I forgot them since), and I was taught about all of it. We may never have sung it all, because as I was saying, it's way too long otherwise. Just the first verse + chorus is one minute long, they can't afford to play much longer than that during cermonies (and when they can, they play verses 1, 6 and 7), which is why we only hear (and remember) the first verse. But the anthem is the whole thing, not just what is played when a football/rugby match starts or when we win a gold medal in the Olympics.
12-01-2005, 12:39 AM
Karl

Quote:

Originally Posted by nik0tine

No, you just don't know what the hell you're talking about. "Under God" was added to the pledge to turn people away from communism, because in a communist society there is no religion. I may be wrong, and if I am someone please correct me, but in Soviet Russia you could not worship any religion openly.

just because they cant OPENLY worship doesnt mean they dont worship at all, people dont just give up all belief of their religion because some dictator says to
12-01-2005, 12:40 AM
DarkLadyNyara

Quote:

Our forefathers were christain, whom wanted to make a haven for freedom to worship.

Actually, quite a few of them were Diest.
12-01-2005, 02:37 AM
Pant Leg Eater from the Bad World

Quote:

Our forefathers were christain, whom wanted to make a haven for freedom to worship.

Thomas Jefferson was an Athiest.

Quote:

The country was also founded by people who lived before numerous scientific advancements. Should we go back to accepting that a pile of dirty clothes magically creates rats? The Founders believing in god is absolutely irrelevent. What the majority of people believed over 200 years ago is irrelevent.

How can you compare religion to sceintific advancement, when only one has made major advancements in the last 200 years. And Karl seemed to get it said better than I did.

Quote:

...the country was founded on freedom of religion not lack of religion
12-01-2005, 03:04 AM
Jimmch939

Quote:

Originally Posted by Autumn Rain

But, if you don't believe in god, there is no point in saying it. Religion and allegience to your country should not be treated as if it goes hand in hand, which is what the current pledge does.

If you don't believe in god then there is no point in saying the phrase "under god" if you remove that phrase then the pledge retains value (if you chose to see it that way). As was pointed out by other poster, the "under god" segment was put in to the pledge in the 50's. It was not originally there. The original form of the pledge was not religious at all, and the original meaning is not entirely altered by adding the phrase under god there.
12-01-2005, 03:06 AM
Casey

I consider myself a Buddhist, and I don't even get a offended by the phrase, and I don't believe it should be even taken out of the pledge of alligence. If people could just stop being so anal about it like "OMG! IM SUPPOSED TO SAY GOD!!" but no ones forcing you to say it, if you don't want to then don't say god. How simple is that!?
12-01-2005, 03:14 AM
Winter Nights

You're missing the point. You can easily just not say it, but it is the principle of the matter. It should not be there to begin with.
12-01-2005, 03:17 AM
crashNUMBERS

I read an article with the same topic subject. Although I am catholic and worship God, and the virgin Mary, but I believe that should be taken out. Why?? Because not everyone's religious...
12-01-2005, 03:45 AM
nik0tine

Quote:

just because they cant OPENLY worship doesnt mean they dont worship at all, people dont just give up all belief of their religion because some dictator says to

Right, but "Under God" wasn't put wasn't put in the pledge to make us hate Russians, it was put in the pledge to turn us away from communism. If you get us believing in God we won't want to be communists because the Soviets did not allow freedom of religion.
12-01-2005, 04:12 AM
Sasquatch

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raistlin

You misinterpreted what I said. I meant that public schools should not have a policy of teachers leading the Pledge, period. Indoctrination is not a good thing. You can't expect a 6 or 7-year-old kid to have the principles to go against what his teacher and friends say is right.

You said , and I quote, "the Pledge shouldn't be forced in schools". Pretty simply stated. Not "Teachers shouldn't lead the Pledge", but "the Pledge shouldn't be forced in schools," which it's not. I was just pointing that out. And, tell me, how many 6 or 7-year-old kids are going to have a huge problem with saying the Pledge, or saying "Under God" with the Pledge? Maybe if their parents have a problem with it, they can cause an issue, then explain to their kid why he's different from the other kids because his mommy and daddy are closed-minded and arrogant?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karl

just because they cant OPENLY worship doesnt mean they dont worship at all, people dont just give up all belief of their religion because some dictator says to

The way some people seem to "think" around here, most populations are so gullible and malleable as to do whatever their government tells them, and the United States government "forcing" us to "recognize" God somehow interferes with their freedom.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Autumn Rain

You're missing the point. You can easily just not say it, but it is the principle of the matter. It should not be there to begin with.

I disagree with, say, abortion. But making abortion illegal isn't enough. We also have to demolish every abortion clinic and toss everybody who ever worked at one on the street. Because it's not just abortion I'm against, it's the principle of the matter.

If you disagree with it being put in, fine. Disagree. But you're too late, it's in there, and we're not about to change something that's been around for longer than most of your parents have been alive just so you can feel good about not having to hear something you don't like. As I've said many times before, you do not have the right to not be offended. Suck it up and get over it.
12-01-2005, 04:29 AM
rubah

Quote:

Originally Posted by War Angel

If one's love and loyalty are true, there's no need to mention it all the time. I don't wake up every day saying "I love mum, I love dad".

I tell my parents I love them any time I or they go somewhere, and before going to bed.
12-01-2005, 04:35 AM
Winter Nights

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sasquatch

I disagree with, say, abortion. But making abortion illegal isn't enough. We also have to demolish every abortion clinic and toss everybody who ever worked at one on the street. Because it's not just abortion I'm against, it's the principle of the matter.

Not even close to the same thing. No one is telling you to praise abortion in a national pledge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sasquatch

If you disagree with it being put in, fine. Disagree. But you're too late, it's in there, and we're not about to change something that's been around for longer than most of your parents have been alive just so you can feel good about not having to hear something you don't like. As I've said many times before, you do not have the right to not be offended. Suck it up and get over it.

Funny how Christians are all uppidity about changing things they don't like, but don't dare change the standards they agree with. :rolleyes2

If people feel something isn't right, they work to change it. It's called "PROGRESS". You should look into it.
12-01-2005, 04:41 AM
Karl

okay, so if 90% of the population wants to make murder legal do u think its gonna happen? just cuz a few select groups have a problem with the pledge doesnt mean they can do anything to change it, its old and the government has nothing major enough to make them change it right now, its not progress to remove a phrase from an old saying, its just pointless, if you dont like it, just dont say that part, lead by example
12-01-2005, 04:46 AM
Winter Nights

I love how you people compare taking the God out of the "Pledge of Allegiance" to asinine things like making murder legal and throwing abortion clinic employees into the streets. It just shows how much you're reaching to have an argument. :rolleyes2

Anyway... It's not about denying your God, this is about not making your God a national belief.

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