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About the music:it takes too long to break people's habbits.
At first i didn't like the soundtrack either but now that i can judge it more objectively i think it's one of the best FF ost's.It just has a different "style" than Uematsu's work.
People should stop comparing it with Uematsu's music and only then they will really start to appreciate it.
FFIV DS InterviewQuote:
Originally Posted by Karellen
Props to *PaladinCecil* for bringing up this great interview in my thread about the plot of FFIV. It touches on alot of other things that I think anyone interested in the remake will enjoy.Quote:
And what is the best thing about FFIV?
Tokita: Well to me, Final Fantasy IV is a great compilation that took all the best parts of Final Fantasy I, II and III. The characters are portrayed with the jobs from III and the story element is drawn from II… In Final Fantasy I there was the 4 Chaos but in Final Fantasy IV there’s the Four Kings. With such enemies in the game, it really adds to the story and mood, acting as symbols for the game.It’s what we had in mind when we made the original version
I think that might have something to do with IX also having two moons, which is incidentally the last shot in the ending (them merging).
Huh, that actually makes quite a lot of sense.
Um, the topic title reads "Spoilers". I know this seems like a bitchy question but is there even enough of a plot to spoil? I found that I wasn't following it at all the whole time I played it, and I dunno if it's because the plot was crap or what.
I'm in the middle of my first play through of the game now. So far I'm thoroughly enjoying the plot. I'm about to go and fight the big Ice summon thing, so I'm only part way through it. The plot isn't hard to follow at all. I'm really liking a bunch of characters. Fran and Balthier rule. I like Basch and Ashe too. Vaan and Peleno are okay although I wish they'd have more to do with the story. Like once the team rescued Penelo, why did she stick around? "I want to" was all I really got.
But there has been worse tag alongs. I mean Amarant and Quina were pretty superfluous in IX, and that was still an awesome game.
As a veteran of the FF series (I've played all the games except XI and Revenant Wings but RW will get played.) I like the changes. Keeping the same system from one game to another is something the series never really did. Each game has had a different system. I like the way battles are in this. I was sceptical at first about it, thinking it would turn the game more into an action RPG than an actual RPG, but like it was said before, its really a similar system to prior games, just without the "woosh you're in a battle now" thing, which was rather time consuming. Yes, the battles aren't exactly random, but really they never were in the first place. Each area in any given FF has certain enemies you can encounter. It just so happens in this one you see them before they see you often times.
I play all games with an open mind. Accepting them for what they are and leave the comparisons until later. If I want a system like FF7's or FF9's I'll play FF7 or FF9. I'll play FF12 how the designers intended because its their game and their vision. If by the end I abhor the game, then I'll not play it again. If I love it, I'll probably replay it. In the event of FF8, I hated the system, characters and story and thus I shall never play it again.
As for one of the original poster's points about love, No, its NOT a needed object in a final fantasy. I can only think of one game where love was crucial to the plot of the game and that was 8's and really, its one of the most hated games in the series. Yes a lot of people love it too, but there's such a hot-cold ratio to that game that no other game has, so I see it as the most hated game. Nobody is "meh" on 8. They either liked it or abhored it to oblivion. Back to love though, as it was recently said in this thread, the games set in Ivalice have never been about love. Its always been a political struggle. Tactics never really had a love aspect. Delita and Ovelia were the closest thing to love we saw, and that was just a curtain to gain power. Maybe the love between a brother and sister with Ramza and Alma was present, but its not what the kind of love we're talking about. Most FF games have some tinge of romance, but thats definitely a side story to the main one. The Tifa-Aeris-Cloud love triangle was definitely a side story. Hell, if you wanted to, you could avoid it altogether and go on a date with Barret.
I guess all I'm saying is most of the reasons stated in the original post can be boiled down to "Its not the same as other games" but if you compare any one game in the series to the others, they're all different. Thats how the series is. If after 12+ installments you can't realize this, then you really should go back to playing Dragon Quest where all games are essentially the same.
Not sure if that's case because the missing element is a crap plot; something that FFXII didn't have :p As I've said already, I think FFXII did have a decent plot and I think it gets more stick than it deserves.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReloadPsi
Agree totally. FFXII's music was a lot more atmospheric meaning that it was much more enjoyable within the context of the game in its wide and varied locales and with the ability to really explore more than in any other FF game (with the possible exception of XI). It's a fantastic OST, but if you constantly compare it to Uematsu's work you'll never appreciate it for what it is. Uematsu's work was great, but so are some of the pieces from this OST.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nifleheim7
Me and Final Fantasy XII have a bit of a love/hate relationship.
I've got to agree with Mr Cactuar on the music, it's just not memorable. I'm hearing a lot of people here saying "Oh but it's atmospheric! It compliments the surroundings!" So? Uematsu's music was hugely atmospheric AND memorable, Sakimoto's music just doesn't have that extra something about it that makes you wanna go and download it, or just stop playing for a second so you can just listen and fully appreciate the sound. I'm not saying Sakimoto's a terrible composer, but Final Fantasy has got a reputation for emotive and memorable music that XII just isn't living up to.
The absence of random battles are a bit more of a complicated subject. On one hand, they're great. They make the game more seamless, more 'realistic', and it's good to have some change from time to time. But on the other hand, if I wanted realism, i'd go play outside. Random battles have become a part of Final Fantasy in the last 20 years or so, no matter how reluctant people are to admit it, and I have to say that I really miss them.
I don't think it's the absence of a love story that brings this game down necessarily, it's the lack of any real emotion from any of the characters. And it's a shame because some of them, like Balthier, really could have made brilliant characters if they had been developed on, but instead we've got Ashe whose response to everything is to exhale and Penelo, one of the main characters, who just doesn't seem to serve a purpose once you really get into the game. And Vayne! What a bad villan. He doesn't even act particularly villaneous, he just acts like your average politician. He doesn't even COMPARE to the insanity of Kefka or Sephiroth.
The basic idea for the plot is pretty refreshing to be honest. All the politics is such a good change from what has been in recent Final Fantasies. But again, Square failed to build on it properly, resulting in players who just don't care what happens, or evidently, some that don't even know what's happening.
However, I don't think this is a necessarily bad game. It's just that, when compared to other Final Fantasies, it doesn't live up to the same standards.
I disagree with pretty much everything you've said, but that made me laugh. xPQuote:
Originally Posted by Imperfectionist
Imperfectionist -we got to remember that FFXII wasn't entirely done by the mainstream FF staff. In fact the heads of the project, as everyone knows, were the staff members behind all the other games set in Ivalice and as such I EXPECTED it to be far closer to the story/music style of FFT and Vagrant Story than to any other mainstream FF game. I actually like the story and music - it keeps some continuity with the world, or rather region, that the games are set in - you still feel like you are in the same Ivalice that Vagrant Story and FFT are set in. A NPC in Archadia even mentions the city of Lea Monde, where Vagrant Story is set.
As to the random battles issue - even S-E ahs admitted that Random turn-based battles are becoming more and more obsolete. The mass consumer audience - which is what S-E is aiming at since they ARE a business, not a fan-pleaser - just isn't interested in random battles anymore.
Well maybe it's because i've never played FFT or Vagrant story that i'm not as into this game as I was with the others, because really, I just can't relate to this game as much as I did with the others.Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleDelta1
Again, that was just my personal opinion. I've pretty much grown up with random battles, and I can see it from a business perspective that random battles aren't as popular any more, that doesn't stop me from missing them.Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleDelta1
I don't think the business perspective should get in the way of it. FFVII is square's best selling game, and it utilized ATB in a way that flowed perfectly, making the battles feel almost like an action game with the perfect flow of battle and the use of a constantly moving camera, to create a really intense experience. To this day I still enjoy nearly every battle in the game and either IGN or Edge cited it as the game's strongest aspect. FFX also used them really good for the boss fights, with your characters seeing it on the map and then the screen slightly changing to the battle screen. They were supposed to have developed that more for even the enemies - I hope they could do that for a future game. I'd much rather have battles that play like a modern day chrono trigger than a large "exploration" experience that can be extremely boring at times.Quote:
Originally Posted by ImperfectionistWell maybe it's because i've never played FFT or Vagrant story that i'm not as into this game as I was with the others, because really, I just can't relate to this game as much as I did with the others.Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleDelta1
Again, that was just my personal opinion. I've pretty much grown up with random battles, and I can see it from a business perspective that random battles aren't as popular any more, that doesn't stop me from missing them.Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleDelta1
But that's the point - Square-Enix is a business. They're not there to cater to the fans, but to make money. nothing more, nothing less.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolivar
I never said it wasn't. My point is that sales numbers is completely independent from what kind of battle they use, as probably their best selling game used ATB.Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleDelta1But that's the point - Square-Enix is a business. They're not there to cater to the fans, but to make money. nothing more, nothing less.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolivar
Tbh, I now find playing random battles significantly less interesting than other gameplay forms. Its not bad, its just not at a high enough standard anymore IMO.
And thats what the general consumer seems to be saying.
I've never heard any consumers say that (you could never measure this anyway), except a few on here, and yet on the forum also are alot of people who want to see them brought back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisteiner
The vast majority of battles in XII were actually pretty boring, especially compared to, say VII, where the use of the camera in random battles allowed the player to essentially be the director of his/her own action movie. And like I already said, the sales of VII pretty much negate the "random battles: consumer no like" idea.