Kefka is so evil he even killed the GRASS!

I've only beaten FFIV out of the pre-FFVII games, and I don't remember it well, so I have no comment on those villains :p


Sephiroth - Just a mamma's boy who wanted to help mommy.

Ultimecia - WOOOORLD DOMINATION!!!! I WILL RULE THE WORLD!!! I KOME FROM THE FUTURE WHERE WE DO NOT LIKE THE LETTER C!!!!

Kuja - I...can't seem to remember his goal...I beat FFIX once...I'm replaying it again, but I don't remember!

Seymour - He wanted to help Spira by killing everyone! He's helping! Not evil! A little power-hungry, though.

Yu-Yevon - I'd have liked to learn a little more about him. Like how he got to be who he was. Looked to me like he wasn't really aware of what he was doing, maybe I'm wrong though.

Shuyin - Aww....Shoe isn't evil...he's in lurve!

Vayne - I forget about him, too xD


So out of the villains I remember well (meaning the Final Fantasies that I played at least seven times), I'd say Ulty.

C IS FOR COOKIE. IMAGINE A WORLD WITHOUT IT!

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Originally Posted by Jessweeee♪

C IS FOR COOKIE. IMAGINE A WORLD WITHOUT IT!

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Kookie? :monster:

Ultimecia don't have any type of accent in the original version. The translators just fuc*ed up.

Kuja's goal for most of the game, was to kill Garland and replace him as the ruler of Terra and Gaia.

And no, Sephiroth didn't want to help Jenova.

Okay fine. Can I go back to crying about my c-less cookies now?

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Originally Posted by Jessweeee♪

Okay fine. Can I go back to crying about my c-less cookies now?

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I don't like to see people cry. Here... *gives you a cookie*

I've never actually played VI, but reading that thread "Which villain would you want to succeed (survive)?" I have to say that Kefka is by far the only real evil that Final Fantasy heroes have ever faced.
Anarchy brings chaos. Chaos is illogical, variant, and unpredictable. That which isn't known is frightening. Like animals, frightened humans cause more chaos unto themselves.
Evil to me is the will and desire to bring harm to others just to watch them suffer. Harm doesn't necessarily have to be physical either. It could be emotional (sadness) or psychological (doubt) as well. Evil is treating living beings like dominoes and affecting the chain that causes them to knock each other over.

That's what you get for asking who IS evil. It would have been a much harder call if you asked who did the most evil things (or planned to).

This is a difficult question to ask considering you need to use motive and evil deeds to back up your reasoning... If we're asking who is truly evil then only one villain technically fulfills that and its Ex-Death from V.

Considering he's a sacred tree corrupted by evil human magic sealed within him; he's the only villain in the series that can be said his personality is truly evil cause its all he's ever been and known. As villains go, he lacks any real motive. He's evil cause he is evil.

Chaos fought for destiny and revenge

Palamecian Emperor fought for personal glory and power

Xande feared death and the Cloud of Darkness is a force of nature and beyond morality

Zemus was a racist but little is known of his other traits and status but it could be speculated that he was noble to his own kind before they sealed him away for suggesting genocide. Zeromus is an incarnation of Zemus' hatred and is the only other villain I might consider but then again from his perspective he was betrayed by all...

Kefka was driven insaned by experiments done to him but it doesn't change the fact he's the series only sociopath... I'll get to this later...

Sephiroth is driven insane by the truth and eventually gets it in his head that becoming a god is his birthright cause he's trying to fulfill the nature of Jenova that exists in his genes. Even then, his acts of cruelty are done more out of necessity than personal malice. Granted this changed when KH and AC came out but KH Sephiroth is not canon and AC Sephiroth is not the real Sephiroth in my opinion so neither count. All signs of Sephiroth being a cruel bastard are a result of Cloud's messed up little head.

Ultemacia is only tossed to the side line cause she was so poorly developed. her motive is illogical and her means to fulfill them even more so. She's just bat-:skull::skull::skull::skull: crazy and nothing more...

Kuja has the most sympathetic motive of all the villains except for maybe Xande but his means of doing it are clearly evil and villainous...

Sin is just stuck in a personal loop of his final thoughts before death and can almost be considered a force of nature. Seymore is the same as Ultemacia.

Only played five minutes of XI (curse you crappy internet connection!)

Vayne has personal glory in mind but is also thinking like a ruler so his motives are not clearly evil though it is underhanded that he gains alot for his efforts...

Now this is my feelings if we look at this for face value and not from a psychological or moral level. In that case, Ex-death is still a contender but Kuja and Kefka once again become contenders. All three villains truly do some heinous actions but more importantly... all three share the common trait of enjoying their evil acts. The other villains either didn't care or justified it in a twisted sense of morality.

Of these three, Ex-Death is a result of human mistakes. A physical embodiment of man's desire to destroy themselves (evil and forbidden magic) and the world around them (using sacred trees to seal their mistakes). Ex-Death destroys and kills cause its his nature. He literally is an embodiment of evil and his actions are taken straight from the pages of human history and depravity.

Kuja has a motive of seeking freedom but lets face it, he has to reduce the entire world in ruin just to get enough power to do it and when its all said and done, he decides to annihilate exhistence cause he can't fathom the world going on without him. So better for it to die with him. Its difficult to not judge Kuja's evil without seeing what he did. Granted a few villains before him attempted similiar feats in games prior to gain something but he's one of the few who accomplished his initial goal and can be thought to have actually devastated the world to do it.

Kefka gets some special props as well but I feel Mercen-X said it best. I think Kefka gets special props cause he's one of the few human villains who actually turned his back on humanity. Most will say he's crazy and he is cause he's a damn sociopath. The closest thing human psychology has to a definition for evil. The other villains except for Ex-Death could be thought to have some admirable traits if viewed from the proper light but Kefka has none. He will kill without hesitation and doesn't give a damn who you are. He posseses the terrifying trait of immunity towards reason and common morality. But the real clencher I feel is that he is human and still has these traits. Even more terrifying is that you watch his mind regress as the story goes until he thinks of himself as a god who's judgement is absolute. Even more than Ex-Death, Kefka enjoys killing and spreading chaos. He lives for it.

With the above statemants, I feel Kefka is the most evil cause Kuja and Ex-Death have stronger justifications for their actions than Kefka does and Kefka out of all the FF villains really enjoyed what he did.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

and AC Sephiroth is not the real Sephiroth in my opinion

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The Sephiroth of AC was the real Sephiroth. The Reunion Files states that the biggest reason he appeared in the movie, was revenge for what Cloud did to him in Nibelheim(and in FFVII).

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Ultemacia is only tossed to the side line cause she was so poorly developed. her motive is illogical and her means to fulfill them even more so. She's just bat-:skull::skull::skull::skull: crazy and nothing more...

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Ultimecia's development was in "Edea's" actions, because Ulti was possesing her.
And what is illogical about trying to gain control over your own destiny(avoiding your dead in the proccess) by absorbing time and space?
Ultimecia was afraid of dying, and even before that, she was already "condemned for generations" by the people of the planet, as she said in her speech in Galbadia.
Illogical? Not at all.


And I agree with you about Kefka being the most evil.

WK, that's some insightful analysis and possibly the best conclusions I've seen so far in this thread. The only thing I want to point out is that X-Death also wanted to create a world in which the monsters/villains who have been banished to the N-Zone could live and rule.

My own lone vote for Vayne was based on the fact that I feel XII is an underrated installment, but initially on his willingness to murder members of his own family, a test which none of the other villains have been put to. However, the point of this thread is founded on interpretation, and I think your 3 top-contenders is a pretty solid list.

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Originally Posted by The Crystal

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

and AC Sephiroth is not the real Sephiroth in my opinion

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The Sephiroth of AC was the real Sephiroth. The Reunion Files states that the biggest reason he appeared in the movie, was revenge for what Cloud did to him in Nibelheim(and in FFVII).

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Ultemacia is only tossed to the side line cause she was so poorly developed. her motive is illogical and her means to fulfill them even more so. She's just bat-:skull::skull::skull::skull: crazy and nothing more...

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Ultimecia's development was in "Edea's" actions, because Ulti was possesing her.
And what is illogical about trying to gain control over your own destiny(avoiding your dead in the proccess) by absorbing time and space?
Ultimecia was afraid of dying, and even before that, she was already "condemned for generations" by the people of the planet, as she said in her speech in Galbadia.
Illogical? Not at all.


And I agree with you about Kefka being the most evil.

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I have issues with a supposedly canon file that contradicts canon again since there should be no reason for Sephiroth to hate Cloud for Nibleheim since Last Order changed everything that happened there. But I will not argue with the statement.

As for AC, my statement may be due to a mistranslation since the only version I saw was from when it first came out in Japan. I thought I heard that Sephiroth would be reborned by combing the memories of him from other people and the planet with Kadaj and the Jenova neck. Thus this Sephiroth's personality would be more based on objective perspectives rather than subjective since Sephiroth's existence appeared to be annihilated by the Lifestream at the end of the original game. I'll have to read up on the new canon since it seems to change by the day...

Lord this is why I hate when they make sequels and prequels to stories years later after the fact... Anyway, it doesn't change the fact he mostly killed out of necessity and warped morality...

As for Ultemacia... I know that she spoke through Edea but the lack of info concerning her own time makes things difficult to understand. Mostly, I'm still trying to fathom where she got the idea of absorbing all space and time to free herself from the fear of being killed by SeeD when she already wiped them out in the future? If she was trying to wipe out SeeD from all history and had a means to send her mind into the past; I can't fathom how she could just stop SeeD from forming.

Basically, absorbing space and time seems too extreme an option in my opinion if she was just trying to free herself from being killed by others. I wished the game had elaborated and I feel the evidence presented in the game shows more that she was just bat-:skull::skull::skull::skull: crazy than having a logical motive. She was controlled by fear but it wasn't developed enough for my taste. Its just my opinion, course it was the time-traveling element I hated the most in VIII's plot, so having Ultemacia written out of the story would not bother me in the slightest. ;)

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

I have issues with a supposedly canon file that contradicts canon again since there should be no reason for Sephiroth to hate Cloud for Nibleheim since Last Order changed everything that happened there. But I will not argue with the statement.

As for AC, my statement may be due to a mistranslation since the only version I saw was from when it first came out in Japan. I thought I heard that Sephiroth would be reborned by combing the memories of him from other people and the planet with Kadaj and the Jenova neck. Thus this Sephiroth's personality would be more based on objective perspectives rather than subjective since Sephiroth's existence appeared to be annihilated by the Lifestream at the end of the original game. I'll have to read up on the new canon since it seems to change by the day...

Lord this is why I hate when they make sequels and prequels to stories years later after the fact... Anyway, it doesn't change the fact he mostly killed out of necessity and warped morality...

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Yeah, FFVII cannon is allways changing. I understand how this can be annoying to some people.
But FYI the Nibelheim incident of LO was retconned in CC. (SPOILER)Cloud never talked with Tifa inside the Mako Reactor because she was unconscious, he tossed Sephiroth in the Mako, etc. CC corrected all the bulls*it LO added to the story.

And from what I remember, Yazoo, Loz and Kadaj are bodies made of Negative Lifestream "injected" with part of Sephiroth's will, to make them find Jenova and bring him back.

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As for Ultemacia... I know that she spoke through Edea but the lack of info concerning her own time makes things difficult to understand. Mostly, I'm still trying to fathom where she got the idea of absorbing all space and time to free herself from the fear of being killed by SeeD when she already wiped them out in the future? If she was trying to wipe out SeeD from all history and had a means to send her mind into the past; I can't fathom how she could just stop SeeD from forming.

Basically, absorbing space and time seems too extreme an option in my opinion if she was just trying to free herself from being killed by others. I wished the game had elaborated and I feel the evidence presented in the game shows more that she was just bat-:skull::skull::skull::skull: crazy than having a logical motive. She was controlled by fear but it wasn't developed enough for my taste. Its just my opinion, course it was the time-traveling element I hated the most in VIII's plot, so having Ultemacia written out of the story would not bother me in the slightest. ;)

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It's not only about SeeD. Ultimecia's dialogue show us that she was persecuted in the past:

“...Lowlifes. ...Shameless filthy wretches. How you celebrate my ascension with such joy. Hailing the very one whom you have condemned for generations.
Have you no shame? What happened to the evil, ruthless sorceress from your fantasies? The cold-blooded tyrant that slaughtered countless men and destroyed many nations? Where is she now? She stands before your very eyes to become your new ruler. HAHAHAHAHA.”

People condemned her for generations. They labelled her "evil", "ruthless", etc.

She was condemned by everyone in the world for many generations(because of what she did in the past/present before she was even born in the future), and destiny decided that she would die by the hands of SeeD. But then... She decided to fight back, to defend herself, because she had the power to do that. Everyone in the world hated her, so she decided to "change the world"(as stated in the game, if you use the Scan on her). And she decided to take control over time(aka take control over destiny itself to avoid her dead and be more powerful than anyone who was persecuting and trying to kill her).
I'm sorry but I can't understand how that can be illogical.

Among the FF villains, Ultimecia have one of the best motives to do what she did. And it's all in the game, people just have to pay attention to it(someting hard, considering the fact FFVIII is one of the most underrated FFs, and many people don't want to pay attention to the story).

Ah, and I'm not saying Ultimecia is a saint. Of course she is evil, and even if she had good reasons, she still did horrible things to achieve her goal.

That is a shame... I liked LOs change to that scene in the story. It was one of the few parts of the plot that never set well for me and LO did a better job and even made Sephiroth seem like a more calculating villain than he was before. I'll have to see the scene in CC (which will be a long time from now since I don't have a PSP) to make my final judgement but I must comment that I think its stupid to change a story 10 years after its made and then turn around and change it again. My opinion overall is that the compilation has screwed over and tarnished what used to be a good game...

As for Ultemacia, I understand and agree that she did this because she was an out cast all her life, but its never stated where she believed her fate was to die at the hands of SeeD nor is it ever stated where she decided that Time Compression was a good idea to fix her problem. She has a sympathetic motive for her actions but there are still too many missing factors that prevent me from taking the whole Ultemacia issue seriously as a well thought out villain. Had we been given a greater insight into what her past (or what the future) was like for her as well as an explanation as to why she couldn't just take over Edea's body and wipe out SeeD before it became a reality, or even how Time Compression really fits into all this...

I don't know about most people but having to cast scan on a major story enemy to learn their motive is sad and just shows neglect on the writers part. I do like VIII but this is one of a few hang-ups I feel the game has that prevents it from being truly great. My personal theory is that Ultemacia grew up watching SeeD wipe out her kind and the fear it instilled drove her mad. She kept imagining that SeeD was greater than her own power cause she still saw them as she did as a helpless child and in her madness concluded she must become a god in order to destroy them. Its a sound and logical theory but even I know there is no in-game evidence to support it. I wish they had expanded on her a little more...

I love VIII but its squandered potential is its greatest fault.

Do you want me to show you the FMV of CC where (SPOILER)Cloud toss Sephiroth in the Mako?
And do you think I need to use spoiler tags to talk about a scene in CC, that is exactly the same scene of the original FFVII, but that is considered "a new scene/retcon" now, only because of LO's previous retcon?

About Ultimecia, I agree her past wasn't explained in details. But Zemus' past wasn't too. Kefka's past wasn't either. And etc. The point is: Ultimecia have a good(and sympathetic) motive for her actions. And that's enough. Details aren't allways important.
But fuc*k that. Lets just agree to disagree and be over with it.

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Originally Posted by The Crystal

Do you want me to show you the FMV of CC where (SPOILER)Cloud toss Sephiroth in the Mako?
And do you think I need to use spoiler tags to talk about a scene in CC, that is exactly the same scene of the original FFVII, but that is considered "a new scene/recton" now, only because of LO's previous recton?

About Ultimecia, I agree her past wasn't explained in details. But Zemus' past wasn't too. Kefka's past wasn't either. And etc. The point is: Ultimecia have a good(and sympathetic) motive for her actions. And that's enough. Details aren't allways important.
But fuc*k that. Lets just agree to disagree and be over with it.

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I'd just like to point out a problem with your past argument.

Kefka's and Zemus's past really didn't have that much to do with there motives.

Kefka was crazy because of Magitech experiments, as said by Cid. Anything before that is irrelevent.

Zemus was a racist, that is the only thing relevent in his actions.

Ulti, however, formed her motives because of all that happened in her past. The anti-sorceress thing she spoke of and seed were major components of her motive that were never really looked into. Unlike Kefka and Zemus, Ulti had an entire past worth looking into, but it wasn't done.

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Originally Posted by NeoCracker

Zemus was a racist, that is the only thing relevent in his actions.

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In a way Zemus' past was part of what made him him. If not for the past events of KluYa and FuSoYa to stop him from his first attempt at destroying humans, Zemus never would of gotten that initial hate that built up over years that eventually transformed him into Zeromus.