Which of these theories fit better the storyline?

WEll thanks for the picture and such. Yes, I must aggree that that pic looks nothing like juliea.

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Originally Posted by bipper:
But the sorceresses do share several similaraties with traditional Vampires.



Such as?

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Vampire's powers defore them as do the sorceress and they are both ugly. Out side of that I would have to think a little harder, and i dont care that much of the thought to do that lol ;)

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Originally Posted by bipper:
Well - if juliea was killed, prehapse she made a Dracula like pact with the devil and in the end became ulti? Who knows - just an idea though.



The game not only in no way suggests this, but in the context of Final Fantasy VIII, Witches obviously have nothing whatsoever to do with the Devil. Using "Witch" in this context is like using "Clone" in the context of a genetic duplicate in Final Fantasy VII. It just doesn't work.

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I did not really mean to insinuate that this was in the game in any way. Just the metepharical value of it. Such as Sepiroth's name to the Tree of life. It was meant to ponder more of an outside the game influence. Sorry bout that.

Thanks for the post though SoS - informative as always :)

Bipper

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Originally Posted by Future Esthar

No,I will not use that as an argument.

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Its never been suggested that the portrait in the art gallery is Ultimecia herself.

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Friend I had questions to you.They were just questions.
1-Isn´t Ultimecia the queen of her Castle?
2-Didn´t she dresses in red?
3-Didn´t queens paint themselves for proud?

Answer them directly please.

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I feel ridiculous going back to address these silly points, but oh well....

1 - Ultimecia is a Sorceress who lives in a castle. Did she ever, even once, call herself Queen? I don't think so (unless there's something I"m forgetting) so anyways, my answer is NO.

2 - NO. If I remember correctly, she had on a mostly black outfit, with bits of red in it.

3 - Not necessarily. Honestly, thinking along your lines for the moment, Ultimecia would probably be too crazy to have a painter come in and paint a portrait of herf. She'd probably end up killing him/her, and send them to the "Other Dimension" she talks about in the final battle, or absorb them into time, or something evil. I know that sounds silly, but not-so-much as your retarded "theories".

Even then, the chick in the red dress looks NOTHING like Julia. Its probably a painting of some past queen, or dutchess, or some lady of royalty. Its probably just some painting she stole, or like was mentioned earlier, some kind of "Mona Lisa" of her time.

Future, you're letting your silly ideas get in the way of reasoning again.

You honestly remind me of that guy played by Russel Crowe in "A Beautiful Mind"..............yes the Schizophrenic man (although I'm not saying you're schizophrenic), who thought he was deciphering secret enemy military code from Newspapers, when the whole thing was just an illusion, which was the result of his illness. This goes for ALL your theories.

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1 - Ultimecia is a Sorceress who lives in a castle. Did she ever, even once, call herself Queen? I don't think so (unless there's something I"m forgetting)

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Destai don´t seem to agree with you.

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2 - NO. If I remember correctly, she had on a mostly black outfit, with bits of red in it

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If I remember correctly she has a full red dress
and has some blue-green type thing through her body.
It was her wings that were black.

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3 - Honestly, thinking along your lines for the moment, Ultimecia would be too crazy to have a painter come in a paint a portrait of herself. She'd end up killing him/her, and send them to the "Other Dimension" she talks about in the final battle, or absorb them into time. I know that sounds silly, but not-so-much as your retarded "theory"

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Helllooooooo :greenie:.
Ulti painted her before she was possessed.That was what happened.Wasn´t it implied on my words?Didn´t I already said on the forums that Ulti was possessed?This painting is another proof of that.You are the one ignoring my words.
Queens paint themselfs.Ulti is old enough to had not painted herself.
There is only ONE queen painting on the castle.This means this painting can not be a "Mona Lisa" painting.

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Even then, the chick in the red dress looks NOTHING like Julia.

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Can´t agree.And if you are refferring to her face let me tell you this is a picture,not a photograph.And she could be a little older or younger in the picture than when she was on Deling City.
I basically proofed Julia was Ulti.
And also that Ulti was possessed.

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Originally Posted by Future Esthar

Helllooooooo :greenie:.
Ulti painted her before she was possessed.That was what happened.Wasn´t it implied on my words?Didn´t I already said on the forums that Ulti was possessed?This painting is another proof of that.You are the one ignoring my words.
Queens paint themselfs.Ulti is old enough to had not painted herself.
There is only ONE queen painting on the castle.This means this painting can not be a "Mona Lisa" painting.
I basically proofed Julia was Ulti.
And also that Ulti was possessed.

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HELLO?!?! You don't even know if that's HER in the painting, much less if she had it painted before she becamse possessed and went crazy, of if she DID even become possessed. You have NO PROOF that it is a painting of her, and are running with your ideas, based on YOUR assumptions, not solid proof. Again, you've ignored the fact that it does NOT look anything like Julia.

SHE MAY NOT BE A QUEEN!! SHE'S A SORCERESS!!! Just because she lives in a castle, doesn't mean she's a queen, but that's beside the point.
Again, you have NO PROOF that she's even a queen.

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Originally Posted by Future Esthar

Destai don´t seem to agree with you.

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That's ok, I'm arguing with you, not Destai. Actually, EVERYONE is arguing with you (doesn't that tell you something?). Trying to instigate a debate between other forum members will not take the heat off how WRONG your stupid theories are.

I think its just your pride keeping you going now. You have been proven wrong countless times, or at least shown how your evidence is not really evidence, and just assumptions on your part, and in no way reflects how anyone else perceives the game or how Square meant it to be. Everyone knows your wrong, and I think that deep down even you know your wrong, its just that you probably have spent the last 6 years locked away in your basement or bedroom, playing FFVIII, writing your own "secret" script to the game, and don't want to let go of your cooked up ideas, because you've spent so much time dreaming this up, even though they make NO sense whatsoever.

And don't come back and say that "The game basically says that J=U", because it DOES NOT. AT ALL. You're the only one who thinks so. LIke I said before, why don't you contact Square about this? Oh yes, I remember, you replied with something like:

"OMG, I WOULDN'T DARE CONTACT SQUARE ABOUT THAT!!!" (something like that, anyway)

Why not ask square?

Because you know they'd call you a retard.

Wow that seemed intensley mean man. I honestly can't say that everything is bs that he has said. Yes, he does go way out there - but saying such things isn't going to help much.

I kinda like Futures takes - you can laugh or just take him too seriously. One day he just might hit that one that makes it all make sence - who knows.

I can say that Ulti was an evil queen who forced a sorceress to pass her powers onto her. Is it right - hell no. Not supported anywhere. Does that mean it could not have happened? no - infact, mabey the origional idea was to have her in this situation, but they left it out for the heck of it. Who knows.

We are even left to assume who squalls parents are. They wanted you to think on this game. IMO of course.
Have a day,
Bipper

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Originally Posted by bipper

Wow that seemed intensley mean man. I honestly can't say that everything is bs that he has said. Yes, he does go way out there - but saying such things isn't going to help much.

I kinda like Futures takes - you can laugh or just take him too seriously. One day he just might hit that one that makes it all make sence - who knows.

I can say that Ulti was an evil queen who forced a sorceress to pass her powers onto her. Is it right - hell no. Not supported anywhere. Does that mean it could not have happened? no - infact, mabey the origional idea was to have her in this situation, but they left it out for the heck of it. Who knows.

We are even left to assume who squalls parents are. They wanted you to think on this game. IMO of course.
Have a day,
Bipper

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My point is that he makes assumptions (that are WAY out there, as you said), and he preaches it like its the Bible of FFVIII.

He doesn't say "Maybe its this way....." he says "IT IS THIS WAY", and I've merely said "No it isn't, you have no proof", as has everyone else in the this thread.

I'd like to figure out things that are left unsaid, about who Ultimecia actually is, but in this case, I can say that the game DOES NOT TELL US that it's Julia.

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Originally Posted by bipper

I honestly can't say that everything is bs that he has said.

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Name ONE thing that he has said that isn't bs, aside form L+R=S.

Did he PM you with who "X" is? Priceless.

You know...this painting question had been long discussed and I raised a few rebuttles which is still quite answered....I think it is in other thread.....

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Originally Posted by Unknowns

You know...this painting question had been long discussed and I raised a few rebuttles which is still quite answered....I think it is in other thread.....

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Exactly. Everytime someone comes up with valid questions which he can't answer because his "theories" have more holes than a sieve, he ignores them, and goes on with something else.

Honestly FE, I'm not trying to be mean, just honest.

Bipper, Futures theories in FF8 are tantamount to a historian theorising that WW2 never happened. THAT'S how far out his "theories" are.

Now, how exactly would one argue against someone who says WW2 never happened? Obviously, one would show records, war veterans, film recordings, pictures, all that. But what if this historian merely shrugs it all off and says that it's all a lie by the government? What would you do then? Would you merely say "Oh well, he's got some interesting points. It's just as valid as anyone else, and hey, maybe he'll strike gold one day!"?

No. You'd direct him to the nearest loony bin and just ignore him. Of course, simply choosing to ignore this nutcase doesn't mean you agree with him, and it certainly doesn't give his theory any more validity.

The same goes with Future. It doesn't matter that this is a game which can be interpreted many ways. There's just no escaping the fact that Futures theories are a load of plain old rubbish. And considering the countless people who have argued in length against him; trying to show him "the light", he hasn't bugded an inch. So why bother?

And quite frankly, the chances of Future hitting on a winning theory are about the same chances as Saddam Hussein winning the Nobel Peace Prize.

In case you "forget" again, I told you anyone can have their own interpretations of portrait and this is my interpretation.

XERAMPELINAE(Red clothes)- Ultimecia's ancestor's portrait
VENUS(Love) - Love is what make the world bleed
VIGIL(Watchmen) - The guardian monsters of the castle
INTERVIGILIUM (Sleep) - The sleep magic
JUDICIUM (Judgment) - Alexandria Holy Judgement
IGNUS (Fire) - The Fire magic in the game
VIVIDARIUM (Garden) - The Garden of SeeD
INANDANTIA (Flood) - Leviathan Tidal wave attack
VIATOR (Messenger) - Diablo's dark messenger attack
INAUDAX (Cowardice) - Biggs and Wedge
XIPHIAS (Swordfish) - Gunblade
XYSTUS (Tree-Lined Road) - Fisherman Horizons

Big Picture: In A Garden Sleeps A Messenger:

Diablos sleeps inside the magical lamp which is given in Balamb garden,

See? Anyone can have their own interpretations so your interpretation theory isn't valid so you can't prove Julia= Ultimecia.

I had as many proof as that Ulti=Julia than you had to LRS
(i.e convincent ones but not 100% accurate).

If not show me wrong.
I did like to.
This is the very reason I open this thread.
And as I said earlier.Majority don´t means veracity.
I can be right and you all be wrong.That´s not important.
You don´t even backed up your theories better than I had backed mine.

You had yet to prove to me that characters dialogues were more important than graphical details in stating thruth on FF8.I am waiting.
And don´t say it happened on other FF games.Be honest enough to not use this argument.Everyone knows FF8 is different.

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Originally Posted by Future Esthar

I had as many proof as that Ulti=Julia than you had to LRS
(i.e convincent ones but not 100% accurate).

If not show me wrong.
I did like to.
This is the very reason I open this thread.
And as I said earlier.Majority don´t means veracity.
I can be right and you all be wrong.That´s not important.
You don´t even backed up your theories better than I had backed mine.

You had yet to prove to me that characters dialogues were more important than graphical details in stating thruth on FF8.I am waiting.
And don´t say it happened on other FF games.Be honest enough to not use this argument.Everyone knows FF8 is different.

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What are you talking about? That Destai and Crazy bay man guy showed you J=U was wrong. Theres way more evidence for L+R=S (well unlikeJ=U there actually is evidence). They told you loads of times, what are you retarded?

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Originally Posted by Future Esthar

I had as many proof as that Ulti=Julia than you had to LRS
(i.e convincent ones but not 100% accurate).

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From as far as I see, the portraits thingy is the only one that support it, if not mind showing them?

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Originally Posted by Future Esthar

If not show me wrong.
I did like to.
This is the very reason I open this thread.
And as I said earlier.Majority don´t means veracity.
I can be right and you all be wrong.That´s not important.
You don´t even backed up your theories better than I had backed mine.

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You just like to ignore my previous posts do you? This is a poll thread so the majority of the vote matter and the majority dun believe in your theories is what reflected from the poll. And what theories I have? The Hyne/Yu Yevon thing? I backed up it and you didn't rebuttle so like you said "to keep quiet is to agree". :D

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Originally Posted by Future Esthar

You had yet to prove to me that characters dialogues were more important than graphical details in stating thruth on FF8.I am waiting.
And don´t say it happened on other FF games.Be honest enough to not use this argument.Everyone knows FF8 is different.

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Both dialogues and graphics are important but if game scripts, game events and game dialogue dun support and your so called graphical details is still a big question mark with no screenshots and anything and pls dun talk about the Ellone and Rinoa thing cause up till now from the eyes of everyone that view it, only you said you saw Ellone in those image.

Also, a lot of questions is being repeated by others which I already asked long long time ago but you choose to ignore it or avoid it.

I don´t ignore questions.
The majority of people don´t matter in representing the thruth.
I proofed that Julia was Ulti.
You proofed that Laguna and Raine were Squall´s fathers.

To say that I don´t proof mine and you proofed yours is just to state that graphical details were not as valid as dialogues.
But this is not proofed anywhere.Endpoint.
You just purposedly say they don´t make sense but they do.They make as sense as LRS.No one has proofed me wrong yet.
Proof to me that LRS makes more sense that Julia = Ulti and I will shut up.

It didn´t matter the quantity of evidences but the quality.

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That Destai and Crazy bay man guy showed you J=U was wrong.

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No,they don´t.They just post alternate possibilities for the theory.
I can do the same with the LRS theory to show ít weren´t better than mine.

And Sir Bahamut that was a real bad comparison.

In WWW 2 we had script(History books) and graphical(arqueological) evidences.

On FF8 the script(Julia is dead) and the graphical evidences contradict each other.
So just one of them could be right.

And WWW2 was not a game my friend.It can be showed with scientifical evidence.But in a game you can´t do it.

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Originally Posted by Future Esthar

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That Destai and Crazy bay man guy showed you J=U was wrong.

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No,they don´t.They just post alternate possibilities for the theory.
I can do the same with the LRS theory to show ít weren´t better than mine.

And Sir Bahamut that was a real bad comparison.

In WWW 2 we had script(History books) and graphical(arqueological) evidences.

On FF8 the script(Julia is dead) and the graphical evidences contradict each other.
So just one of them could be right.

And WWW2 was not a game my friend.It can be showed with scientifical evidence.But in a game you can´t do it.

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No they made it pretty clear to anyone whos played the game that your theorys retarded. Graphical contradiction? There wasnt any. The portrait wasnt similar to Julias hair or dress in shape or design. Only colour. If you think thats enough to prove the game was lieing when it says she died then you are retarded. Especially when you say graphical evidence s important, yet you only recognise her dress and hair colour over shape and design. Thats like saying all white people are the same person or something extremely stupid like that. And I still dont see why that picture is Ultimecia or Julia when it looks nothing like either and theres no reason for it to be Ultimecia when t hangs in her castle. It was in an art gallery for gods sake.