America for the win?

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Originally Posted by Cloud No.9

what macdonalds can and cannot purchase is even controlled by international law

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No xD
McDonalds all around the world buy solely from local markets, because it's cheaper and more efficient in terms of storage and transport. If (and I've yet to see evidence that they do) they were to use foreign food, they would be buying it from an importing company, not doing it themselves, which means that McDo doesn't have to give a damn about international trade laws, since ultimately, they bought it locally.

As I said, I'd like to see the legal texts. Good luck finding them :p

"However, I can't see what possible situation I'd be in where I'd starve." how about this you live in uganda. the lra come rape a few women, kill some men and children and burb the village so you flee. you leave your farm and your livelihood. you try to rebuild somewhere safer. but you can't get enough money to support your new farm. american subsidised imports are cheaper than what you can produce and you sloly watch your new chance destoryed. what you could have exported has heavy tarriffs on it and you can't even sell it if you were giving it away. so now you are penniless. the lra took away your home, forced you away and now you are starving. you now have no option but to die a slow and miserable death.

but of course raistlin this will never happen to you. so why care? if it can't happen to you, your self obsessed mind won't let you care.

"Why not? I bought it - it's mine." because it endangers others around you. maybe one day your neighbour will try it. but the chances are slight. so yet again why should you care?

"I will never be sorry for what I care about." and that raistlin is the problem with your selfishness. you don't care about anything but yourself. you have made that clear. feed the 5,000? save mary magdalane? you wouldn't even spit on a man on fire if he didn't directly affect you.

"Then why focus on the US and is if it's the sole perpetrator of all evil in the world?" because other countries are guilty of less.

http://www.mcspotlight.org/case/tria...ict_jud1d.html

while the judge ruled in macdonalds defence. he was over ruled later by the international courts. the case was known as the mc libel case.

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Originally Posted by Cloud No.9

http://www.mcspotlight.org/case/tria...ict_jud1d.html

while the judge ruled in macdonalds defence. he was over ruled later by the international courts. the case was known as the mc libel case.

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I think you are grossly mistaken here. You may want to look up the word "libel" in particular, so that you can see that McDo isn't bound by international trade laws or what McDo can or cannot buy, since it wasn't the subject of the trial.

i know what libel means. i was referencing the evidence about the destruction of the rainforest. the quote of the judge saying that it was false has been over ruled so feel free to ignore it.

i do think the wto would be the people in charge of trade disputes and illegalities. and they would do that in any country. i am not going to sift through the wto website as it very complex and seems to just list cases. but yes there is a body that would rule over mac donalds and it would be america that the case was brought against.

Thing is, McDonald's doesn't trade internationally. It doesn't export/import goods/products itself, so how would a trade dispute arise?

Also, the WTO rules over conflicts between countries about economic policies/laws put in place (such as the tariffs you talk about) by one (or more) country that affects another (or more).

Damn you people and your rush of replies. I'm making a new reply instead of editting my last one as promised so people will see this.

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and while i'm at it. raistlin. you don't care about africans, you don't care about the rain forest and eco system of this world, you don't care about the atmosphere. it seems that you care about one thing in this world, yourself. you are selfish and greedy man and when i ask for the death of america i ask for the death of everything you believe in. soon the word will no longer stand back and allow your beliefs to exist and if need be the vessel which contains them. the world is changing. it is smaller and people are more aware. hatred of your belief system is growing and one day maybe very soon people will take a stand and end the most corrupt, selfish, greedy and evil society that exists on this planet.

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haha, that still makes me chuckle. *ahem*

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and while i'm at it. raistlin. you don't care about africans

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Nope.

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you don't care about the rain forest and eco system of this world

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Not in and of themselves, no.

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you don't care about the atmosphere.

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Not in and of itself, no.

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it seems that you care about one thing in this world, yourself.

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A gross over-simplification, but more-or-less valid.

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you are selfish and greedy man

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If by "selfish" you mean "thinks of oneself first and foremost" and "greedy" means "ambitious" then yes, I am.

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and when i ask for the death of america i ask for the death of everything you believe in.

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I know you do, which is why I always disagree with you - because you call for the death of production, freedom, individual rights, self-respect, integrity, and many more.

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soon the word will no longer stand back and allow your beliefs to exist and if need be the vessel which contains them.

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WOAH! This is the ultimate product of socialist/collectivist doctrine: the explicit need of destruction of anyone outsidde the group. Anything done towards that goal is justified - including murder. The "end justifies the means." This is what socialism ultimately offers you. Capitalism outlaws any sort of the intiation of force. Which sounds better?

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the world is changing. it is smaller and people are more aware. hatred of your belief system is growing and one day maybe very soon people will take a stand and end the most corrupt, selfish, greedy and evil society that exists on this planet.

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Unfortunately, that may be true. And I would not be willing to live in such a world. I would fight to make sure that Soviet Russia is not unleashed upon the world again.

How can the rest of you socialists even look at yourself in the mirror after reading Cloud's little speech? I haven't seen a more blatant pronouncement of evil yet in this forum.

"WOAH! This is the ultimate product of socialist/collectivist doctrine: the explicit need of destruction of anyone outsidde the group. Anything done towards that goal is justified - including murder. The "end justifies the means." This is what socialism ultimately offers you. Capitalism outlaws any sort of the intiation of force. Which sounds better?"

capatilism does not outlaw that sort of force. it just allows the individual to perform it. it puts power in the hands of the minority. capatilism is an economic apartheid state. where the rich minority hold the power and right to life.

No. A truly consistently capitalist society outlaws the initiation of force, because force is the only tangible which can infringe on individual rights - on freedom.

You don't distinguish between "political/physical power" and "economic power." All socialists don't. But political/physical power(political power is backed by physical power) can be used with or without the second-party's consent. Economic power can only be held by the voluntary submission of those under that "power."

money is power. if i have more money i have more influence. if someone thinks i'm destroying stuff then i can buy better lawyers than them and get them to shut up. i can buy politicians. i can own monopolies on which people are dependant.

the power to do what you want when you want regardless of the concequences to other people purely because you are rich is immoral and should be as dead as victorina laissez-faire.

Those aren't products of lassiez-faire capitalism. They're not even products of a free society. In other words, we all agree, so why are you claiming that we believe it?

capatilism creates a rich poor gap. one that is not even based on worth or effort. and with that gap comes a gap in power and influence. the rich hold all the cards. they are the law makers and when they break that law they control it. we do not have that.

laissez faire capatilism is based purely on explotaition. it is founded on the idea that what is good for the individual and business is good everyone (as it helps the economy). that is simply not true. explotaition is not good for anyone. the entire concept is based around the country revolving around those with power and money. the country should revolve around the people. all the people. not the businessmen.

Look, Cloud, I know people in America who America considers 'poor' or even 'on the poverty line' who are as well off as any working class family here, and half the middle class as well. What did this? Capitalism. You can't blame America because the rest of the world doesn't have the same capitlism. You blame America. I blame nations which don't have capitalistic systems.

In order to be in the working poor(according to the Sociology 4th edition, which used at the time minumum wage) you must make less then 10,000$ a year.

The US federal Poverty Guidelines are as follow:
# in family|Earnings
1 |$ 9,570
2 |12,830
3 |16,090
4 |19,350
5 |22,610
6 |25,870
7 |29,130
8 |32,390

For each additional
person, add 3,260


Now we had someone from ITT come up here and give us a hint on what it costs to strike out on your own. Came to about 18000$ yearly. I believe it used national average for cheap renting.. and the like. Thus the figures are probably higher then they need to be for my area but.. shrug, it was supposed to just be an idea that working at McDonalds prolly won't cut it alone, unless you really budget.


Anyways I don't see how your middle class makes less then 10000$ a year... that would be bad.

i can blame america when people are starving in africa because of it. i can blame america for not signing kyoto, for destroying the power of the un, for standing back and watching genocide, for being the world's worst pollutor, i can blame it for torturing foreigners, i can blame it for breaking international law.

and capitalism.......... just seperates the rich from poor there. forces a wedge. and poor people are good for the government.

Why are people starving in Africa because of America?