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Originally Posted by Ishin Ookami
Well is it a fantasy movie, its not like Cloud had beaten Buhamut and then leveled up in the movie. its just if you compared his power and strength to what level he might be, it would past the 99 max level point.
I'm prety sure that was Vincent.Quote:
Originally Posted by cloud20747
The movie is based on the game, not a stand alone movie. If they don't bring any logic or whatsoever from the original source to the movie, then it wouldn't be a sequel based on the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishin Ookami
If you look at it other way, my party in FF VII killed countless monsters/invincibe...etc, but suddenly in the movie, they are complete wimps. It isn't logic this way.
Agreed, it's basically just a huge FMV for the game. Just because Mario failed, doesn't mean it's a bad concept. As for Berret and Cid, if either of them were 30 or 40 levels higher than Yuffie, they're gonna be able to kick her ass, whether she's a highly trained ninja or not. That's game logic. That's how they can do the things she can do. Its the video game's world. And it works for this. All RPGs are based on random average joes that become way more than average by the end of the game. Its obviously something any NPC regular human can do, they just dont. Again, game logic. NOT Wuxia. And just because it's not wuxia doesn't mean its stupid :P Wuxia isn't the only thing that deals with high leaps and insane strenght and/or powers.
I meant during the arguement. His line is the line after Cait Sith tell Yuffie to shut her mouth for the first time the camera points down at Red showing his mouth moving then it cuts back to Vincent and then Tifa says If Cloud knows what they know. But you could listen to the voices and hear the difference from Vincent and Red. Listen to Red's Line at the end then listen in the scene I'm talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinnova
Maybe you just need to see or read more wuxia to see the resemblence. I can scan some images from the crouching tiger graphic novels and show you images that look like development sketches for key scenes in AC if you'd like? yes superhuman leaps and feats of aerial agility are not exclusive to the wuxia genre, but in the case of AC's style, yes it is very much imitating and taking its inspiration from wuxia and anime.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyk
You do understand though that movies and video games are two very different mediums, and whatever storytelling method you use for either medium has be adapted to suit that medium. Video games need writing and stories that can fit with the gameplay. The structure and flow has to be different from that of a novel, and certain points of the story can be told via gameplay, others by dialogue. Movies on the otherhand need something called, plot coherence. The story needs to be a priority, and making it flow, operate by cinematic rules of storytelling, and be able to make sense. film makers making a movie out of a video game can carry over PLOT points from the game, but its the height of idiocy to try and carry over gameplay concepts and make them fit into cinematic form. Metal Gear Solid DOES merge cinematic elements with gameplay elements, but does so in a satirical fashion. In game plus modes there is always in jokes and satirical humor over special items obtained by completing the game once. Weapons with unlimited ammo are explained using stupid logic, and we the gamer laugh WITH the characters, not at them. Advent Children is attempting this and trying to be serious, but if you look at it from a storytelling perspective, its a really bad idea. I mean hideously bad. It just doesnt work. The mediums are just far too different to blend without some sacrificing or creativity. To just say "they are all at so and so level 100" without any sort of background story that explains their superhuman abilities just further shows how little attention was really given to the story. It further makes these animated icons into products and computerized pixels shaped into a particular form instead of characters that the writer tried to make feel real and tell a story with a heart. Considering how obvious AC ripped off anime and wuxia, Im being generous for key scenes and allow the storytelling the liberties that ripping off these mediums allows. Without that generosity, the story makes no sense at all. If cloud is the strongest of the bunch, how do all the other characters get higher then he is to help him get higher? even with the "level 100" cop out it still doesnt explain how they can get higher then a character who is supposedly at a higher level then they are. However granting them he wuxia and anime storytelling influences, we can all assume that RedXIII, Yuffie, and tifa all used their innate chi manipulating abilities to consistently leap higher and higher from various points in the structure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Christmas
if you wanted to see this movie for the drama and story, you will get a taste but you wont be satisfied, but if you came to see a movie with awesome CGI and great fight sequences its deffinately worth it, i can think of tons of movies that are more popular than AC that are worse. i mean seriously.
this movie is great just watch it a be impressed, i doubt youll see better CGI and action like this for a while.
p.s. im commiting a sin by not reading the above posts so sorry about that.
They climbed.....and I dun really know why only Tifa, Red XIII and Yuffie are limited to these CHI thingy you talking about and personally, I dun really know these CHI thingy did apply to the movie.
Just for References, you do know some of Cid's limit break specialize on jumping.
I told you all of them are equally strong through the game events and jumping from various structures to structures is pretty possible for everyone of them.
Before Cloud appear and fight Shin Bahamut, the others were already fighting on the beams and structures. So it do explain they have ways to get that high and most probably they climbed.
Also. I dun really know why you said they jump higher than Cloud. They just merely appear at higher structures(They might have gotten into action first or start at a higher platform or jumped/climbed to that position to await Cloud.) than Cloud is and give him a hand while other jumped as to where Cloud's position is and gave him a push that's all.
It didn't really show anywhere that when two of them jumped together, Cloud jumped lower since Cloud make one straight jump while others could have jumped from platforms to platforms.
LET'S ANAYSIS.
After Cloud uses his Braver move or your so called Wuxia or CHI move whatever you think it is on Shin Bahamut, It crashes onto the ground preparing for an attack.
Look at his screenshot here, the group's head are looking up, so they must be in a platform pretty similar to where Shin Bahamut is.Take note that Barret isn't in the screenshot.
http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/8446/1006lj.jpg
So Cloud make a leap and saw Barret awaiting him in a higher platform.Barret could have already on the higher platform before Cloud in the start.
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...nowns2/102.jpg
From this one, Cloud engaged Shin Bahamut but loses balance and started falling.
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...nowns2/103.jpg
Cid who appeared in the first screenshot, shows up in a lower platform than where Cloud is and give him a push. Take note that this is crucial since Cloud already wasted a lot of time this way and Shin Bahamut had already soar into the sky by now. This can apply to everyone else who will have jumped or climbed from platforms to platforms or such to a higher level than Cloud.
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...nowns2/104.jpg
And Red XIII leapted out and give Cloud a push.
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...nowns2/105.jpg
Followed by Yuffie.
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...nowns2/106.jpg
Take note that Vincent is already in a higher platform than Cloud is since he had enough time to get this high from Cloud's fall.
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...nowns2/107.jpg
And Tifa.
Aeris is irrelevant.
Didn't the game show how superhuman they are....like Cid can uses his limit break to jump high up into the air and Yuffie uses a big ball of energy against the enemies. Must they repeat all this in the movie to tell you? If you want to question it, you shouldn't question the movie but question the game instead.Quote:
To just say "they are all at so and so level 100" without any sort of background story that explains their superhuman abilities just further shows how little attention was really given to the story
Besides, all my characters are level 99 too.:D
Like I said, it's about a game where people have high levels. That doesn't exactly equate to chi. Its just... they're "powerful" and can do things. Cloud could have gotten up there himself. But he would have only went so far. I guess he was being lazy and relying on his team mates. But I mean he did get up there to save Berret. So its not like he couldn't. They had to have an excuse to involve everyone. And "Berret and Cid aren't trained in martial arts so they have to sit this scene out" doesn't really cut it when it has nothing to do with martial arts. I'd say they got in key positions to throw him to keep the momentum going, but momentum was kinda lost with each throw, especially Cids where he stopped and stood on his spear for a time. I suppose Cloud probably could have jumped from beam to beam himself to at least get to the top. But I think it's more a sentimentality thing than anything else. The team helps Cloud get to his goal. But leaping or throwing, neither would have gotten him there either way. It was a leap of faith and if Aeris hadn't helped out, he would have only went so far and fell back in a very anti-climactic manner. But the fact that Aeris took on physical form and helped throw him isn't in itself all that logical. Its just not meant to represent our physical reality. Or the reality given in martial arts lore. It has its own reality.
Edit: [img]http://home.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/heart.gif[/img] Unknowns
Edit2: Oh, I guess your name is Christmas now o_O
Great Job explaning it Christmas!!! ^_^
considering Ive been talking about wuxia all through this thread, and what chi is, how it empowers warrior in wuxia films and how AC emulated that style, and based on the rather blatant imitation how illogical it is that cid and barrett got up there, its rather pointless for me to state it yet AGAIN since its unlikely you would read my post this time around, and just try to continue debating pointlessly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Christmas
speaking of not bothering to repeat myself...
FOR THE LAST TIME! FFVII ADVENT CHILDREN EMULATES THE STYLE OF WUXIA AND ANIME ALMOST TOO A TEE, IT DOESNT MEAN IT TRIES TO BE WUXIA ITS JUST IMITATING. NEXT TIME YOU POST A REPLY THAT TRIES TO CONVICNE ME OF SOMETHING IVE ALREADY STATED, IM GOING TO REPLY WITH QUOTES OF ALL THE TIMES IVE STATED AC EMULATES AND IMITATES ANIME AND WUXIA, NOT JUST ON THIS THREAD BUT IN EVERY OTHER THREAD ON HERE, AND BELIEVE ME THATS A HELLUVA LOT. IF YOU CANT SEE THE RESEMBLENCE IN THE ACTION SCENES AND ABILITIES THEN YOU EITHER ARENT AT ALL FAMILIAR WITH THE CONCEPT, OR ARE IN DENIAL. I DO NOT INTEND TO FLAME YOU, BUT IM TIRED OF REPEATING MYSELF. IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING ELSE TO SAY ON THIS TOPIC BESIDES "ITS FOLLOWING VIDEO GAME LOGIC" OR "ITS NOT WUXIA OR ANIME" THEN SAY IT. LIKE HOW IS IT NOT A ACT OF STUPIDITY TO TRY AND PUT VIDEO GAME RULES INTO A MOTION PICTURE? OTHERWISE I DONT INTEND TO CONTINUE REPEATING MYSELF.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyk
and thank you for making my point for me, on the sense that you even admit that the story makes not one lick of sense from a storytelling perspective. People like to make fun of the initial translation Akira recieved in the eighties, and how it didnt make a lick of sense. Ive seen the early translation of akira and believe me, dippy translation and poor acting aside, it made alot more sense that all the crap in AC. But the films biggest sin, the absolute worst thing they did with the film is have Aerieth come back. Her in game death helped make the story feel a bit more serious and personal (and believe me, FFVII needed all the help it could get in that regard). Bringing her back in a physical sense, where she helps impact the living world was a huge mistake. She's DEAD people, get over it. But it appears that Square is applying the single absolute rule of marvel comics to the FFVII universe as well, "only Bucky stays dead". Having her coucil cloud on his self destructive mood swings, cure the geostigma, resurrect cloud, and tend to sick children at the end was all the most contrived and fanboyish piece of writing Ive seen in a long time.
You called this debating....??? All you said is they aren't the Wuxia and CHI gang so they can't jump. Case Closed...... Do you have any proofs or anything official and such to said this rather than you find it similar from those Wuxia flims you watch and made a conclusion about it.Quote:
considering Ive been talking about wuxia all through this thread, and what chi is, how it empowers warrior in wuxia films and how AC emulated that style, and based on the rather blatant imitation
I listed out the analysization clearly in my previous post and tell you about their origin of superhuman abilities.
Your statement sounds just like a personal rant from you yourself,
And also, they do not use whatsoever CHI to empower themselves. They uses spiritual energies when they unleash a limit break.
Right. So, what should Barret and Cid be doing in the movie if they aren't suppose to fight or whatsoever since they are not part of the Wuxia or CHI gang?Quote:
how illogical it is that cid and barrett got up there, its
You should just go make one thread about your Wuxia and CHI opinions and turn it into a sticky thread then you will never need to post it again. Anyway, the point I want to show is that they can get that high.Quote:
FOR THE LAST TIME! FFVII ADVENT CHILDREN EMULATES THE STYLE OF WUXIA AND ANIME ALMOST TOO A TEE, IT DOESNT MEAN IT TRIES TO BE WUXIA ITS JUST IMITATING. NEXT TIME YOU POST A REPLY THAT TRIES TO CONVICNE ME OF SOMETHING IVE ALREADY STATED, IM GOING TO REPLY WITH QUOTES OF ALL THE TIMES IVE STATED AC EMULATES AND IMITATES ANIME AND WUXIA, NOT JUST ON THIS THREAD BUT IN EVERY OTHER THREAD ON HERE, AND BELIEVE ME THATS A HELLUVA LOT.IF YOU CANT SEE THE RESEMBLENCE IN THE ACTION SCENES AND ABILITIES THEN YOU EITHER ARENT AT ALL FAMILIAR WITH THE CONCEPT, OR ARE IN DENIAL. I DO NOT INTEND TO FLAME YOU, BUT IM TIRED OF REPEATING MYSELF. IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING ELSE TO SAY ON THIS TOPIC BESIDES "ITS FOLLOWING VIDEO GAME LOGIC" OR "ITS NOT WUXIA OR ANIME" THEN SAY IT.
LIKE HOW IS IT NOT A ACT OF STUPIDITY TO TRY AND PUT VIDEO GAME RULES INTO A MOTION PICTURE? OTHERWISE I DONT INTEND TO CONTINUE REPEATING MYSELF.
We all know that she is dead. And she's not coming back. The part at the end was an nod to a Glitch in the game. When you come back to the church in the slums after Aerith dies some people say that they see a GHOST of her tending to the flowers or just standing there with the two kids that are wondering were she is. So the whole part about her at the end was just a nod to that glitch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishin Ookami
We understand that these are your OPINIONS and we can't change them and the same goes to u. if you do like the movies rules FINE go make your own movie with YOUR rules and then you can be right all the hell you want to!
ITS JUST A smurfING MOVIE GET OVER IT!!!!
EDIT: I like how they added the Smurfing instead my f-bomb :D
Ishin Ookami, if you can find a quote from one of the producers of AC that states that they took inspirations from ‘WUXIA’ then we may be more incline to believe you. Otherwise, most of the people here have probably never seen this genre, or even heard of it.
Failing that, perhaps it may be useful to post some screen shots from AC that you consider are imitative of ‘WUXIA’ style, alongside shots from other films that use the same effect.
Ultimately though, I think you talk far too much about a movie you don’t even like. You’ve already made a thread about how much you hated the movie, is it really necessary to bring up the same points again in a fresh thread?
Its not that I"m not reading your posts. We're both doing the same thing. You keep saying "it borrowed from wuxia, so it should live by wuxian rules" where I keep saying it's a movie based on a video game, that has its own rules for empowerment that don't abide by wuxia lore. The only similarity is that they can use their power to do super-human feats. But the key difference is, that because the game involved a diverse crew, not just masters of martial arts are granted these powers. That's it. As long as you keep saying "But they can't do this because..." I'll keep following up with "But they can do this, and they did do this, because..." But really, if you hate the movie so much, why bother with it so much?