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Then only FFI, FFIV and FFIX are not broken systems in your eyes? Every other FF game can be horribly abused.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuriev's ghost
A system that allows you abuse one aspect of it in order to easily win battles is still fundamentally broken, no matter which way you look at it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
Only FFVIII gives FFXII a running in the "I can kill bosses with like 2 uber attacks" category. All the rest (Gil Toss, Aeon Spamming, Dark Knight Dressphere etc) just make battles that would have otherwise been rather challenging fairly easy.
And I can't think of anything in FFIII that can be abused. There is the Ninja/Sage jobs from the original, but that wasn't so much "they make the game easy" as it was "they make the make the final boss less insane".
Did you even watch the story sequences from FFX? If Roto hadn't beaten me to it, I was going to say Tidus as well. Heck, just about every character in hat game had a lot of character development if you ask me. Moreso than characters in just about any other game out there.Quote:
Originally Posted by omegaweapon2005
Just because most of the other games don't let you kill a boss in two attacks (heck, in my game for FFXII, it's impossible for me to kill a boss in two attacks since I only use three characters. Only two of the others even have a quickening unlocked, but I digress) doesn't mean the games aren't rediculously easy thanks to their overpowered abilities. FFVI let's you spam Ultima like crazy to kill anything in a few rounds. FFVII has more abuseable strategies than I can even count. FFX is easy without even over-leveling or getting ultimate weapons. As long as all you have is the likes of Anima and the Magus sisters, you can beat anything short of the arena creatures without any trouble at all. I left out FFV and anything prior to FFIV simply because I'm not familiar enough with them despite having played them all. Almost every FF game can be horribly abused in some way that takes all of the challenge out of the game to the same degree abusing quickenings in FFXII or Aura in FFVIII would.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuriev's ghost
I'm probably going to get flammed out for this, But almost ALL FF games are pretty overrated.
I have no idea why any of you enjoy the whole " Lets stand...choose attacks...and wait for them to happen" I can't stand it, ticks the hell outta me. Only FF i give anything to is VII, and thats for good storyline/plot ect.
REAL TIME BATTLE IS KING!
Also, Xenosaga was a totally over enthused game, the system is horrible, the story makes little to no sense, and the character are very generic in terms of it's genre. The battle system again, is alittle to lame for my taste, if and when i attack something or someone, i'd like my key sequence to match it, and not wait around for it to happen with some very lame attack-scene animation/ scene. Alittle of those are okay, but after seeing the same attack sequence clip about 30 times does get annoying.
I'm not really going to bother debating this since I tend to agree with you that most later FF games were poorly thought out when it comes to how easy it is to abuse the battle system. I will point out though that all the things you listed are issues that only arise toward the end of their respective games. The ridiculously overpowered nature of limit breaks is a problem from the start in FFVIII. Quickenings are a problem from around about the boss battle on the Airship Leviathan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivi22
First of all, Wikipedia is a website where anyone can contribute an opinion, and it will be posted so long as it contains new info and thoughts. So don't believe everything you read. Heck, even professional critics can have their opinions bought out at times. I personally concider Advent Children to be a complete and utter piece of crap, yet in December we were having critics review the film, stating they were reviewing the PSP version which wasn't even distributed until April. If sony and/or square hadn't paid for them to say this, they could have sued them for false advertising and generating hype as I'm sure they received many complaints when the release was pushed back, and even more when it was actually released. Then there is the whole "Halo was the greatest FPS of it's time" racket. To which I give the raspberry as It would have been a mediocre playing FPS even five years prior to it's release. Trust me, opinions get bought all the time in this industry.Quote:
Originally Posted by I'm my own MILFI don't even know how to answer this. You can certainly say RE4 wasn't as good as is made out, I'd disagree but that's ultimately a question of personal taste. If you're seriously suggesting that there was little significant progression between 3/Code Veronica and 4, however, then I don't know what to say, except that I disagree and that I've been a player of the series since the original was released on the PS1. I found 4 to be a massive, and hugely refreshing, change, that completely abandoned the old notion of always dodging as many enemies as possible in favor of blowing them away, added a huge number of new ways to fight stuff (Rather than just bugging them out by standing slightly out of reach and knifing them), and was generally a frakking great game that revitalized a flagging series.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishin Ookami
Hell, just read what wikipedia says on it;
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipidia
Second of all, the only thing that kept me playing the game was the contra like aspect of "shoot em all and let the high score sort em out" that RE4 subscribed too. That was the only thing that made it any fun at all. The story was complete crap, I'm still trying to figure out what ADA is doing on a mercenary mission while wearing a cocktail dress, and the controls to move your character around were still tank like. Which by that point in the industry was inexcusable. In prior RE titles, I hated having to pull out of aiming mode and wiggling the control stick aimlessly whenever an enemy attacked in the feeble hopes that my character would avoid it. That was still the order of the day in RE4.
And while I'm picking apart the game, the game could have put more technique in there while fighting enemies. all minor enemies can be taken out with the same formula; head shot to knock em off balance, leg shot to knock em to the ground, continuous head shots until the head pops, and lather rinse repeat. Shotguns for large crowds and big enemies, and sinper for far away shots. I'm sorry but capcom has done so much better in the past, I prefer a game that subscribes to technique, where there are different ways to take down different enemies. This helps to keep the player on his toes, and from getting bored. And I also found most of the boss battles to be pretty mundane, I really think capcom could have done better instead of subscribing to formula.
I think it's a fun game overall, just not the end all and be all some make it out to be. You'd have to be a super fan of the franchise (which I'm not, I long defected to Fatal Frame for my survival horror kicks) to think RE4 was a quantum leap in terms of gameplay. It was an improvement, a evolution for the franchise, but not a drastic one.
And that's why Wikipedia is almost as accurate as the Encyclopedia Britannia, I assume? What I posted accurately sums up how I see the series. I do not see how the paradigm shift from avoiding enemies in cramped environments to shooting as many as possible in much more open environments is anything other than a major change.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishin Ookami
Ah, I see. If someone disagrees with you, they've been bought out. :rolleyes2Quote:
So don't believe everything you read. Heck, even professional critics can have their opinions bought out at times. I personally concider Advent Children to be a complete and utter piece of crap, yet in December we were having critics review the film, stating they were reviewing the PSP version which wasn't even distributed until April. If sony and/or square hadn't paid for them to say this, they could have sued them for false advertising and generating hype as I'm sure they received many complaints when the release was pushed back, and even more when it was actually released. Then there is the whole "Halo was the greatest FPS of it's time" racket. To which I give the raspberry as It would have been a mediocre playing FPS even five years prior to it's release. Trust me, opinions get bought all the time in this industry.
I don't even consider RE4 survival horror, it's an action game with vague survival horror elements. Fatal Frame and Silent Hill are far, far superior if you're after scares. And... wouldn't a super fan of the franchise be rather MORE qualified to make a comment on how much of an advancement it has been?Quote:
I think it's a fun game overall, just not the end all and be all some make it out to be. You'd have to be a super fan of the franchise (which I'm not, I long defected to Fatal Frame for my survival horror kicks) to think RE4 was a quantum leap in terms of gameplay. It was an improvement, a evolution for the franchise, but not a drastic one.
I think FF7 is one of the most overrated.
The story was completely predictable. If you'd read the Dune series, nothing about Makou or Jenova Cells was new. Spice gives you power, Makou does the same. Spice gives you glowing blue eyes, so does Makou.
Aeris was pretty much a throwaway character. She was designed to be cute, nothing more. She doesn't seem to have any real opinions on anything. Tifa was better. As for the rest of the crew -- Cid was the only one that had a slightly more than 1-dimensional personality. Barret doesn't change much from beginning to end, nor does Tifa, nor Yuffie really.
Sephiroth wasn't all that great of a bad guy either. He's another experiment that goes haywire. Wow. I've never seen that in Anime before.
The levels aren't too bad, but since the levels are made by using images, it's hard to tell where you can go.
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My other overrated game is Xenosaga. It's not a game. It's a 40-hour cut scene. And even when they let you play it (in a game, imagine that), the tasks are very similar. In several cases, you go to one area of the ship, then watch a cut scene, then travel back to the same location. And many of the missions are just plain stupid "bring the captain his dinner?" jeez, what do I look like? roomservice?
You've said it all, I totally agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by I'm my own MILFSank you! ^_^;Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete for President
Wakka's development is interesting in two ways. Both focus on his religion. He is completely devout to begin with, it should be noted. He toes the dogmatic line on machina, Sin, and so on and so forth. And then the Maesters themselves are using machina, supplied and operated by the hated Al Bhed, to fight Sin. The Al Bhed are not cool to Wakka - you don't even tell him about the fact that Rikku's one of them, because his reaction wouldn't be so great. But then later he's riding on an airship, working with the Al Bhed, and busting into Bevelle itself to personally disrupt the wedding of a Maester. Wakka's spiritual struggle is one of the most interesting things I've seen in any game, and it's one of the best executed character arcs I've seen as well.
So you see, first of all he has to accept that his religion's leaders are hypocrits, even unsent. Secondly, he has to overcome long-standing prejudices. His entire worldview is based on something led by liars, and which ranges from being merely grossly inaccurate to outright fabrication. These are nuanced and gradual processes, and I really empathise with his struggle. Seeing how anti-religion and anti-bigotry I am, I consider it a great success that I care so much about Wakka and his development. Rationally, he should be someone I dislike strongly. It should be noted that he could serve as a microcosm for Spira, as many citizens share his piety and faith.
Katamari Damacy is another overrated game. Although it was fun, it got tedious quickly when I found out the only thing to do in the game was roll a giant ball and pick up things. We Love Katamari remedied this by having certain stages consist of rolling up certain items instead of it just being get the ball to a certain height by a certain time. Also, the music in the game was good, but a lot of people claim it to be one of the best OSTs in the gaming world, but it isn't close IMO.
Wakka is definitely my favourite character from that game. Not only the religious aspect of him, but I also like the mini-story of him and Chappu and Lulu, and also how that ties into his Blitzball, which is another fun part. (I refuse to lose the Blitzball game because we have to finally get Wakka that win! :()Quote:
Originally Posted by I'm my own MILFSank you! ^_^;Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete for President
Wakka's development is interesting in two ways. Both focus on his religion. He is completely devout to begin with, it should be noted. He toes the dogmatic line on machina, Sin, and so on and so forth. And then the Maesters themselves are using machina, supplied and operated by the hated Al Bhed, to fight Sin. The Al Bhed are not cool to Wakka - you don't even tell him about the fact that Rikku's one of them, because his reaction wouldn't be so great. But then later he's riding on an airship, working with the Al Bhed, and busting into Bevelle itself to personally disrupt the wedding of a Maester. Wakka's spiritual struggle is one of the most interesting things I've seen in any game, and it's one of the best executed character arcs I've seen as well.
So you see, first of all he has to accept that his religion's leaders are hypocrits, even unsent. Secondly, he has to overcome long-standing prejudices. His entire worldview is based on something led by liars, and which ranges from being merely grossly inaccurate to outright fabrication. These are nuanced and gradual processes, and I really empathise with his struggle. Seeing how anti-religion and anti-bigotry I am, I consider it a great success that I care so much about Wakka and his development. Rationally, he should be someone I dislike strongly. It should be noted that he could serve as a microcosm for Spira, as many citizens share his piety and faith.
I would argue the abuse of Limit Breaks started in FFVII. They build up faster in that game than any other FF their in, there's an item that allows you to make it build up faster (sometimes after one minor hit) and even the non-multi hit Limit Breaks are overpowered, especially since they come way too frequently... FFVIII may get the hate for abusive Limit Breaks but it really started in FFVII...
As for Tidus being well written... I would mostly say yes, except for one tiny (make that major) issue. Tidus' plot twist...
All right children, today Wolf is going to explain to you about a literary device we call the "Deus ex Machina" it gains it's origins from Greek plays. In those plays, sometimes the writers wanted a specific type of ending or event to happen but on the way to writing this wonderful scenario they wrote themselves into a corner. To resolve this issue they would write a god to come in and fix the situation so the story could go back on course. This was presented in the plays by using an ancient pulley machine to lower a statue of a god onto the stage, thus machine god or deus ex machina. See you learned something and "knowing is half the battle"
Warning spoilers...
(SPOILER)Tidus' plot twist regarding him coming from the dream world created by the faeyth one of these scenarios. Not only does it make the writer's escape from having to explain why Tidus' is a thousand years in the future but it also builds up for the "twist" ending. Instead of seeing Yuna die, we get to watch Tidus cease to exist. Still a sappy ending to a boring love story. Anyway... it's only place their to resolve one writing issue and to create another improbable one. The real bad thing about it, is the fact it leads to more confusing questions. Is Tidus real? Did he exist in the past or was he solely created in the dream world? If he doesn't really exist, how can Jecht (who is also part of this whole mess) become an aeon? What are the qualifications to become an aeon? What is reality?
Oh wait, the last one was never touched upon in the game. I forgot, this plot twist was also put in to be some pretentious bull:skull::skull::skull::skull: so people could talk about the philisophical complexities of the game. Even though in reality it isn't relevant to anything in the story. This is just as bad as Tifa's confession and the "We're all childhood friends" plot twist from FFVII and FFVIII.
Beyond that, he's not too terribly written...
Another over rated game i think is the Shenmues for the Dreamcast...granted they are good and i own the first Shenmue but it doesnt represent a complete revolutionary leap in gaming as we know it like the mags and Sega made out at the time of its release...
Well, it looks like we have our very own Goethe in the forums!Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
How can you know that they wrote themselves into a corner? You CANT! Anyway, every Final Fantasy has these cheesy plot twists, yes EVEN Final Fantasy VI. Yet I still like every FF apart from FFX-2.
The Limit Break bar in FF7 never filled up in one hit unless it was a move that should of actually killed you.
I'm no where near being a modern day Goethe;) As for the twist being due to writing issues or just a sad writer's over-active imagination is completely debatable and will generally come down to personal opinion. Yes I understand that odd and weird plot twist's are a reluctant tradition in the FF series going all the way back to the beginiing. I just feel this is one of the worst in the series.Quote:
Originally Posted by Croyles
I'm just venting frustration cause this was the moment that killed any hope of this game redeeming itself storywise for me. So please don't personally attack me cause I'm stating an opinion. I don't mind you refuting my statements but patronizing, name calling? I'll try to be more civil and I'm sorry if I offended you. It's just difficult for me not to get worked up cause this game really irritates me.