Final Fantasy VII: Overrated?

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Originally Posted by Crossblades

Ya, the game has some flaws, but what game doesn't?

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Indeed. I think that it is an exaggeration of many fans to deny that the game has its flaws. I would be lying if I told you that FF VII is absolutely perfect in every respect and that it has no flaws. It is not, and it has its shares of flaws. Something as simple as the spelling errors and poor translation that pop up many times comes to mind. Sephiroth having no gloves while he descends with his sword towards Aeris and then suddenly having gloves while he is pulling his sword from her; or the misalignment of the Sister Ray, by which if you draw a straight line from it to the north, it would miss the northern crater which it supposedly hit by a long shot; among other things.

While these are flaws, I think that these are just small things that don’t really take away from the greatness of the game. If you look for them, you will find them in many other games as well. Not that finding them in other games somehow justifies their presence. They are flaws and they shouldn’t be there or should have been done right in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Goldenboko

In my opinion nearly every FFVI and beyond has been overrated.

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I love VI, it is my second favorite FF. But as of late and unlike VII it does not seems to be aging too well. Not to go of topic but I'll just say that I think the game kicks off nice and goes on strong right up to and including the floating continent. But after that, in the world of ruin, I think it loses force and all sort of plot development seems to come to a halt. The game is amazing, I love it, but I think this issue is a weakness it has.

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Originally Posted by Yaridovich

I just thought that XII was incredibly overrated, but by the media, not the fans. The reviewers and critics in the gaming media were like: "OH JESUS BALLS YOU MUST BUY THIS GAME IF YOU DON'T YOUR HEAD WILL EXPLODE INTO XII PIECES YAY NO RANDOM BATTLES AND YOUR CRAPPY BATTLE SYSTEM IS GONE." While much of the fan base was "meh, this isn't so great. It's just a pretty game to look at," or "this isn't really much of Final Fantasy" or "wow, a game that plays itself? I paid $60 for this?" (That last one is mine. A little of the second, too.)

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XII overrated? Before I touched the game, I'd only heard bad things about it. I don't ever listen to critics reviews of a game. But basically any person I talked to about the game said it wasn't any good. However when I actually started playing it, I loved it. It was new, it was different, and it had a lot of customization. It's actually one of my favorite games for those reasons.

I base overrated purely on what is said about a game. The overwhelming majority of people hate FFVIII, or FFXII. Therefore, I don't see them as overrated. In fact, I find them highly underrated. FFIV, and FFVII receive a lot of praise from fans, and I find both to be highly overrated. FFVI is in there, but I'm not sure if it's overrated or not. It's teetering on the edge, but besides this forum, I've never seen many people really praise the game that much, while I hear tons of people praise VII and IV pretty much anywhere.

THE JACKEL

XII is an epic. I think it was a return to form in the series after VIII, IX and X, which while I enjoyed I felt fell far short to VII and VI.

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Originally Posted by Egami

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Originally Posted by Goldenboko

In my opinion nearly every FFVI and beyond has been overrated.

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I love VI, it is my second favorite FF. But as of late and unlike VII it does not seems to be aging too well. Not to go of topic but I'll just say that I think the game kicks off nice and goes on strong right up to and including the floating continent. But after that, in the world of ruin, I think it loses force and all sort of plot development seems to come to a halt. The game is amazing, I love it, but I think this issue is a weakness it has.

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I'm not saying that the game isn't good. I love that game, but there are many fans of it that over-rate it, just like FFVII and beyond. :O

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Originally Posted by ljkkjlcm9

Interesting argument...
All I hear is people who don't like it, saying it's overrated
And people who do like it, saying it isn't overrated.

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You missed a whole lot then.

Egami brought up another great point, about how the little things in VII really helped make it as memorable as it has become. One thing that I briefly mentioned that far supercedes that of previous FF's was the use of artwork in the game. The Pre-rendered backgrounds are rarely mentioned in heated debates like these, but they went a long way into establishing the game's epic feel. FFI-FFV all used alot of the same sprites, and even though it did bring in some new ones, V still used alot of the same sprites and tiles (how old is that guy with the pointy hat?). Even though FFVI seems to have brought in an entirely new palette, it still used the same types of locations, the same types of styles and the same types of feel.

With FFVII, not only did you view more "futuristic" (stress quotations) scenes like Midgar and Junon, but you got to see the slums, plains and fields, ranches, mountains, coastlines and others. By completely abandoning pre-made tiles, Squaresoft was able to make much more impressive, interesting, and memorable locations. Going from sprites and tiles to models and CG was, actually, a pretty revolutionary move, and brought the art quality of locations, i think most would agree, definitively BETTER.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

In regards to the current debate, though I would argue that part of the criteria for being considered "overrated" would have to be its popular, I would say its a criteria not a reason why it is.

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And that's exactly what I was saying.

Guys, I agree that a game, to be overrated, needs to be popular first. But saying that a game is overrated only because it's popular("because it have many spin-offs", as Momiji said) is absurd.

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Originally Posted by ljkkjlcm9

I base overrated purely on what is said about a game.

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Me too. This is why I think FFVII is not overrated. To every place I go, I only see people bashing it "because it's overrated".

Well I can assure you that I have never used "it's overrated" as an excuse as to why I dislike this game. I have always backed-up my claims with examples, such as my distaste for its story, graphics or unoriginality.

I see the "it's overrated" excuse as useful as VII fans' "you're just jealous of our success/popularity/spin-offs/etc."

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

Going from sprites and tiles to models and CG was, actually, a pretty revolutionary move, and brought the art quality of locations, i think most would agree, definitively BETTER.

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Great observations Bolivar.

I would say that VII did bring a revolution to the series and the RPG genre with those things you pointed out. It did set a new standard for RPGs in particular and games in general, there was no RPG like it before it. However, I feel that what VII did in this area was an improvement over what a previous Playstation game had already begun to explore. There may be others but Resident Evil released in 96 had pre-rendered backgrounds quite similar to those of VII with 3D character models (see a video here). I think it is safe to say that to a certain extent it paved the way for what was to come in VII.

VII wasn't the first game in 3D though.

If you're going to say that every game that was first in its genre to use 3D graphics "revolutionized" the genre, you might want to look deeper as to what it take to truly "revolutionize" a genre.

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Originally Posted by Yaridovich

VII wasn't the first game in 3D though.

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Of course, 3d Monster Maze released in 1981 was probably it. And Ultima Underworld released in 1992 was perhaps the first 3D game for the modern PC.

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If you're going to say that every game that was first in its genre to use 3D graphics "revolutionized" the genre, you might want to look deeper as to what it take to truly "revolutionize" a genre.

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I did not say that but I will say this much about 3D graphics: a jump from 2D graphics with sprites to a full 3D world with models is a radical change in the graphical presentation of a game and a radical change by definition is all that is needed to revolutionize something.

Such a change affects every single aspect of a game. Something as simple as the camera changing angles during a battle makes for a whole new experience quite different from the static view of previous games. The motion of the characters is also improved, allowing a wider range of expressions and emotions to be conveyed. Now models are not limited to four or five static poses in order to give different reactions, which are the same for every character but are given a nearly unlimited freedom of movement allowing for a greater distinction between the characters. This of course can enhance considerably the storytelling of a game. Things like monsters become much more interesting to fight, making battles more enjoyable overall, as they move and attack and have all sort of motion, unlike how it was previously that the monster was simply a static picture that blinked when it attacked.

I could go on but I think that a change from 2D to 3D, done well, such as FF VII did, is a radical change in the visual language of a game (the FF series in this case) and a radical change is a revolution.

Sorry if that message seemed directed at you. Just one of the pitfalls of our language. I was trying to use the plural, generalistic "you," though I probably could've used "one."

All I'm trying to say is that VII's 3D-ness wasn't as big an influence as some make it out to have been. 3D RPGs would've come about whether or not VII was 3D just by virtue of other [popular; going with popular games here] games such as Mario 64 or Zelda: OoT.

It was just games evolving. Each new generation brings about improvements. VII just used those improvements much like IV and X did, and XIII will.

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Originally Posted by The Crystal

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

In regards to the current debate, though I would argue that part of the criteria for being considered "overrated" would have to be its popular, I would say its a criteria not a reason why it is.

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And that's exactly what I was saying.

Guys, I agree that a game, to be overrated, needs to be popular first. But saying that a game is overrated only because it's popular("because it have many spin-offs", as Momiji said) is absurd.

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Originally Posted by ljkkjlcm9

I base overrated purely on what is said about a game.

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Me too. This is why I think FFVII is not overrated. To every place I go, I only see people bashing it "because it's overrated".

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You just don't know when to quit, do you?

I didn't say that. Don't make up false quotes and say I said it. I didn't say it was overrated because 'it have many spin-offs' as you fabricated, but because it got undeserved attention, which is solely my opinion-- which as I will say yet again is the point of this thread. It's pretty pitiful if you have to make things up and say other people said it.

Furthermore, I don't bash FFVII 'because it's overrated'. I bash it because I don't like it. QED. End of point. I'm done discussing this. I wasn't even going to post again in here until I saw that you misquoted me.

Exactly how many 2D PS1 games did you see during the first few years of it's life? Sony was very adamant about taking advantage of the fact that the PS1 was capable of processing 3D graphics.

Basically, saying Final Fantasy VII is revolutionary because it was 3D is like saying Star Fox 64 was revolutionary for using the N64 analog stick.

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Originally Posted by Roto13

Exactly how many 2D PS1 games did you see during the first few years of it's life? Sony was very adamant about taking advantage of the fact that the PS1 was capable of processing 3D graphics.

Basically, saying Final Fantasy VII is revolutionary because it was 3D is like saying Star Fox 64 was revolutionary for using the N64 analog stick.

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Thank you. This is what I've been trying to express, but I keep overcomplicating my arguments.

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Originally Posted by Roto13

Basically, saying Final Fantasy VII is revolutionary because it was 3D is like saying Star Fox 64 was revolutionary for using the N64 analog stick.

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Aside from all the other countless qualities that make FFVII revolutionary and a great game, the point of the 3D graphics was that it was revolutionary for the SERIES, not games in general. That's a big distinction many people are CONVENIENTLY forgetting.