Who is the strongest ff character?

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Originally Posted by Snowman

Dark.....first, let me point out from my point of view, theres a differnce to being trained well, and being a natural..
this is a distinction ignored or misunderstood in most combat classes. soemone can be trained well, they can become damn good, but they will never be as....natural as a natural. example - someone who requires/needs to be tought how to use weapons where as a natural can teach themselves in a matter of minutes like me..

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That is how I feel. That's how that 14 year old kid is playing soccer with the big guys - he's a natural soccer player. Like you, I think I'm a natural, though not with swords, but with knives (hence my example of me and knives).

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Originally Posted by Snowman

considering daggers and real knifes and the chaos of battle then yes..it is possible to defeat an opponant who weilds a firearm with a dagger or knife. it's easy to think of a situation where you WOULDNT win, perahps your on all fours and the gun is a hair trigger pressed againt your temple...but thats the chaos of battle. a combatant whos trained in knife work is less likly to be as adaptable as a natural warrior/fighter. longwinded i know..but my answear is yes. WE are the weapons, we are dangerous, everything else is simply a tool..

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I wasn't thinking in battle, or in a comprimising position. I meant like in contests, where there are two peopl between 3 and 8 feet apart that begin at the count of three (or whatever you want to signify starting).

[QUOTE=Snowman]However the statement you quated me was actually directed at combat against any martial arts....weapons, styles.

Sorry for the misquote. I'll disregard the rest of that paragraph.

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Originally Posted by Snowman

remeber...you have to hit your opponant with a gun to kill them..hence differnt firearms are suited to differnt conditions of combat. guns are more restrictive than blades.....well that depends of course what blades lol.

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How are guns more restrictive than blades? You must hit your opponent with you blade also, and, unless your within about 7 feet of your opponent, it can be a lot harder. Yes, different guns are suited for different conditions, and yes, this is restrictive, but not nearly enough to make them less effective than blades.

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Originally Posted by Snowman

is any of this helping.

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If it isn't, it's sure fun.

glad we agree. i dont much like oriental weaponry...it's predominatly weak.....but when a studant wanted to bring along their nunchuks, nightsticks etc i didnt say a thing and i allowed him to glow. when i went home and got my hands on nunchuks, sais (i already ahd a nightstick) it took me a couple of minutes in teh living room to work out how you would fight with them. i didnt need a teacher or a book, i can do it with anything that can kill lol.
this is where alot of people online who i canrt just take and show outside disagree with me......many times ive encounterd, seen and had to overcome the problems kata gives people. it generally makes people slower, less responsive and poorer fighters. we end up having to strip them back and rebuild so that they can keep up with the beginers. there are moves you wouldnt do sparring like gougin eyeballs etc because you dont want to go to hospital....but i dont see teh point in practising and learning things that are soly for showing off or passing tests. it always overcomplicates those studants who come with that nonsense in their heads

well in that instance....you could give them a bow and they would have an advantage....and advantage, but it doesnt mean they would win. that instance is really set up in the guns favour. when we let people do mass battles, melaess, one on one, three on one etc. the interesting thing is to see where and how they start, how close they are. but teh most important thing is we teach the groups how to heard and we teach individuals how to heard the groups. a fight is free, moving around, climbing, jumping.

right...youve got a broadsword...hand and a half, and if you know what your doing you can use it in almost any situation against any weapon. youve got a mimigun, your barely manuverable, waighed down, you carnt do much in a tight squezze. with guns not only are you dealing with a complex mechanism which can fail at any moment, but youve got kick, youve got to shoot right (sounds silly but the calm slower man shoots straighter). reload, heat, shape, size restrictions (defelctions, distance). with a sword youve got what youve got. a staff carnt get any simpler...good rule of knifes and daggers - pointy end first lol

this is what i keep saying.....you should be willing to bet your life on your skill.

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Originally Posted by Snowman

glad we agree.

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:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: Wow, that's new.

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Originally Posted by Snowman

i dont much like oriental weaponry...it's predominatly weak.....but when a studant wanted to bring along their nunchuks, nightsticks etc i didnt say a thing and i allowed him to glow. when i went home and got my hands on nunchuks, sais (i already ahd a nightstick) it took me a couple of minutes in teh living room to work out how you would fight with them. i didnt need a teacher or a book, i can do it with anything that can kill lol.

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Exactly how I feel.

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Originally Posted by Snowman

this is where alot of people online who i canrt just take and show outside disagree with me......many times ive encounterd, seen and had to overcome the problems kata gives people. it generally makes people slower, less responsive and poorer fighters. we end up having to strip them back and rebuild so that they can keep up with the beginers. there are moves you wouldnt do sparring like gougin eyeballs etc because you dont want to go to hospital....but i dont see teh point in practising and learning things that are soly for showing off or passing tests. it always overcomplicates those studants who come with that nonsense in their heads.

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There really IS no point to showing off. I mean, I'm good with daggers/knives, but can I twirl them on my fingers? No. Do I need to? No. The only thing I need to do is block, stab, and SOMETIMES throw.

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Originally Posted by Snowman

well in that instance....you could give them a bow and they would have an advantage....and advantage, but it doesnt mean they would win. that instance is really set up in the guns favour. when we let people do mass battles, melaess, one on one, three on one etc. the interesting thing is to see where and how they start, how close they are. but teh most important thing is we teach the groups how to heard and we teach individuals how to heard the groups. a fight is free, moving around, climbing, jumping.

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Yes, I understand that part.

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Originally Posted by Snowman

right...youve got a broadsword...hand and a half, and if you know what your doing you can use it in almost any situation against any weapon. youve got a mimigun, your barely manuverable, waighed down, you carnt do much in a tight squezze. with guns not only are you dealing with a complex mechanism which can fail at any moment, but youve got kick, youve got to shoot right (sounds silly but the calm slower man shoots straighter). reload, heat, shape, size restrictions (defelctions, distance). with a sword youve got what youve got. a staff carnt get any simpler...good rule of knifes and daggers - pointy end first lol.

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Well, not many people bring a mimigun to battle. I didn't even know what one was and had to do an Image search. Most people, when thier
taking a gun to a fight take something smaller. Take this Sub-machine gun. http://64.225.91.143/BRS030603/BRS810g.JPG
It's relativly compact, smaller than the sword, looks like it's got a good sized magazine. Yes, it COULD fall apart at any moment, but what are the odds of this happening with a brand new gun? Unless you bought it on the black market, it'll likely last at least 5 years. Reloading will likely not be a porblem from the size of the clip and if you you have to, it's not that hard and doesn't take more than 1-2 seconds. Shooting right shouldn't be a problem, unless you've never shot in your life, in which case you'll get the hang of it pretty quick. Yes, there's recoil, but all you do is compensate by slightly pushing it down on the target again. Or just use a Burst Fire. I tried to choose a gun that was made for close quaters like the sword is and not something like a sniper rifle. But I have no doubt a good gunman can kill a good swordman with nothing more than a sidearm easily.

combat is something people seldom agree on. many people will stick to what they know despite it being proven wrong in their faces. but i belive combat is a very simple black and white...right and wrong. and the reason many DONT agree is they lack experiance not only against combat with anyone..but REAL combat

i was offline for so long because a storm took out the phoneline and BT claimed they wouldnt fix it for a week....gits

it's good when you can.....but it means you have to work harder to understand people who carnt.

well youve gotta learn the differcne from showing off and discovering your weapon. studants love it when we get them flipping broad swords in teh air and catching them....doing ever more complicated twirls and flips. they are having fun, but what they are really doing is discovering their levels of control and balance, they are getting to know the swords as an extention of themselves....understanding how far they can push it....so yes you DO need to. like learning to draw you have to be in control of teh pencil unitll it's an extention of your self...same with knifes and daggers. then teh funny faces start as they think you carnt fight swords with daggers and i do it lol

mimigun lol....i didnt mean that i meant a Minigun....good ol arnie from T2

biggest mistake of you useing that gun.....on automatic youve used every bullet in a heartbeat....bbbrrrrtttt and your empty which leaves you very vulnerable. remeber in the matrix neo needed lotsa guns because in the time to reload he would have been pounced upon. whats more it is easy for most automatic guns to jap....it's like useing a pencil or useing a computer..the computer is far more likely to mess itself up. as for a Good gunman killing a Good swordsman...sorry but combat for real isnt that simple. ive beaten invinceable opponants in my time who by all the rules couldnt be killed..trout happens.

FFIV Cid!

I mean c'mon, how many times did that guy survive an almost certain death!?

If everything from final fantasy were in a battle cactaur would win. :)

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Originally Posted by Snowman

it's good when you can.....but it means you have to work harder to understand people who carnt.

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Trust me, I understanding, mostly because I'm fortunate enough to have understanding people in my life.

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Originally Posted by Snowman

well youve gotta learn the differcne from showing off and discovering your weapon. studants love it when we get them flipping broad swords in teh air and catching them....doing ever more complicated twirls and flips. they are having fun, but what they are really doing is discovering their levels of control and balance, they are getting to know the swords as an extention of themselves....understanding how far they can push it....so yes you DO need to. like learning to draw you have to be in control of teh pencil unitll it's an extention of your self...same with knifes and daggers. then teh funny faces start as they think you carnt fight swords with daggers and i do it lol

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I know the difference between showing off and discovering my weapon. While twirling a dagger isn't needed, it does help you with controling it more steadily, like you said.

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Originally Posted by Snowman

mimigun lol....i didnt mean that i meant a Minigun....good ol arnie from T2

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LOL, oh okay.

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Originally Posted by Snowman

biggest mistake of you useing that gun.....on automatic youve used every bullet in a heartbeat....bbbrrrrtttt and your empty which leaves you very vulnerable. remeber in the matrix neo needed lotsa guns because in the time to reload he would have been pounced upon. whats more it is easy for most automatic guns to jap....it's like useing a pencil or useing a computer..the computer is far more likely to mess itself up. as for a Good gunman killing a Good swordsman...sorry but combat for real isnt that simple. ive beaten invinceable opponants in my time who by all the rules couldnt be killed..trout happens.

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Well, while I don't exactly now it's true for this gun, almost all Sub Machine Guns have a Burst option and a Full Auto option. Full Auto is, like you elequently put it, "bbbrrrrtttt". But Burst Fire fires only 3 shots in quick order. The reason Neo didn't use Burst was because there were several opponents with guns. One opponent with a sword would not require such force, and therefore you could use the Burst Fire more effectively in this scernerio.

cactaur cactaur...he should win

i type so fast and then move on ive said some strange things in my time lol

yeah if your gonna stand there and take it....but then if we have a sword...we will likly have a sheild :).

bottom line, guns make you weak

but these weaklings will oftern defeat the strong with there guns...

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Originally Posted by Snowman

yeah if your gonna stand there and take it....but then if we have a sword...we will likly have a sheild :).

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Okay, first, where'd the sheild come from? That wasn't there earlier.
Second, if the first matchlock guns could penetrate armor until it was so thick it was useless,, why would a sheild work bettter, unless it's rather thick.

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Originally Posted by Snowman

bottom line, guns make you weak

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Wait, so people like soldiers in the military are weak?

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Originally Posted by Doomsday

It's not that guns make you weak, it's just that all you rely on is the Guns so that when the gun is knocked outta your hand, then your absolutely defenceless.

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First, guns are made to defeat the opponent at a range without allowing them to get near you, so if you can't do that, don't use a gun.
Second, if your using a gun to fight and your smart, you keep three weapons on your person. First, your main gun. Second, your sidearm (pistol). Lastly, a knife. So you never loose your gun and just stand there, you whip out your pistol/knife and continue to fight.

it isnt the weaklings who destroy foes...it's a violent force of nature harnessed for a purely destructive act. you have no right killing unless you can do it up close and personnal....guns act like magic, they remove the skill and ability from the combatent...they leave the combatent relying on this thunderbolt, they grant the thunderbolt to people who cannot control it and should never have such power

"It's not that guns make you weak, it's just that all you rely on is the Guns so that when the gun is knocked outta your hand, then your absolutely defenceless.".....and you dont see that as weak how?. people who rely on guns are already weak, they ask for the power of the gods without earning or leanring the skill themselves, and so children shoot each other and people carry them on the streets. certainly a gun CAN be used well with a skill and professtionalism....but so can a kitchen knife and fork. MOST poeple, despite what they know..belive a gun is a magical solution...just point it and it will do everything...blow open the heavens, strike down the robber and turn him to ash.
i didnt know we were STILL talking about your hypothetical situation
soildgers...yes. the majority of them today are pathetic and pale in comparison to past warriors even from the second world war. we have middle class men with the mentle attitude of children running around with big guns and picking up handgrandes that are about to blow up. they pilot themselves into enemy territory and get captured, they operate with substandard equipment and crash themselves, even the SAS arent what they used to be. My grandfarther who was a commando in WW2 came back destroyed, but he had killed men with his barehands, blown up limbs over hid body and such terrors would make todays warriors piss their pants.

im sorry Dark but your showing your lack of combat clearly...i wish life and the fight was a clear cut as you make out, it would make my days easier. out of ten opponants 9 dont actually know what they are doing and the tenth doesnt know how to do it when the time comes

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Originally Posted by Snowman

it isnt the weaklings who destroy foes...it's a violent force of nature harnessed for a purely destructive act. you have no right killing unless you can do it up close and personnal....guns act like magic, they remove the skill and ability from the combatent...they leave the combatent relying on this thunderbolt, they grant the thunderbolt to people who cannot control it and should never have such power
"It's not that guns make you weak, it's just that all you rely on is the Guns so that when the gun is knocked outta your hand, then your absolutely defenceless.".....and you dont see that as weak how?. people who rely on guns are already weak, they ask for the power of the gods without earning or leanring the skill themselves, and so children shoot each other and people carry them on the streets. certainly a gun CAN be used well with a skill and professtionalism....but so can a kitchen knife and fork. MOST poeple, despite what they know..belive a gun is a magical solution...just point it and it will do everything...blow open the heavens, strike down the robber and turn him to ash.

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So I take it your one who believes that guns shouldn't have every existed?

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Originally Posted by Snowman

soildgers...yes. the majority of them today are pathetic and pale in comparison to past warriors even from the second world war. we have middle class men with the mentle attitude of children running around with big guns and picking up handgrandes that are about to blow up. they pilot themselves into enemy territory and get captured, they operate with substandard equipment and crash themselves, even the SAS arent what they used to be. My grandfarther who was a commando in WW2 came back destroyed, but he had killed men with his barehands, blown up limbs over hid body and such terrors would make todays warriors piss their pants.

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Okay, so your grandfather did. Did the majority of them soldiers in WWII kill men with thier barehands. There are always exceptional soldiers who are stronger of will then the others, it's been that way for centuaries.

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Originally Posted by Snowman

im sorry Dark but your showing your lack of combat clearly...i wish life and the fight was a clear cut as you make out, it would make my days easier. out of ten opponants 9 dont actually know what they are doing and the tenth doesnt know how to do it when the time comes

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For one, there is no need to apoligize. Second, your absolutly correct, if by combat experience you mean actual life and death fighting. I do training, practice, and simulations. I never wish to take another humans life, but would like to be prepared to if I need to. That's why I'm trained with guns and knives, so I can handle either situation.

Hey guys, take the discussion of weaponry to another topic please, or use pms.

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Originally Posted by Dark_Paladin_Cecil

LOL, I just remebered this thread wasn't about what we were talking/arguing about. If you don't mind, I'm gonna stop posting, so we won't be accused of tying to hijacking the thread or anything.

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Dang, I knew I should just listened to myself.

nope, guns shouldnt have existed, they took mankind and his desperation to cause pain and kill to a whole new level, same way biochemical weapons are bordering on an entire new level and it helped mans..shall we say downfall. Before war was a horrifiying thing, mens guts leaked out all over your boots, heads came straght off or you died of infections. The same thing still happend with guns, but it wasnt in your face, it was often at a distance and teh distance has gotten bigger ever since. with guns getting better the damage isnt as much. certainly it's worse than hollywood protrays it, but it has helped create this lack of responsibility in the everyday person

nope the majority of men died that way. they had bayanetts thrust into their stomachs, they blew up into gorey peices from landmines, eyeballs exploding like a sun and emptying out of the skull. yes many men did kill that way and many died that way.

i knew alot of 12th dans and dedicated black belts who got beaten and robbed by kids (12 and 17 year olds). practise doesnt always make perfect. if you can kill and defeat opponants, it's in you all the time, it's a part of you and you know as you beat your sparring partner that you pulled your blows and they lived. you dont have to tell them, but it will always be a part of you. of course guns as a weapon, of course in situations you may use them, you may choose to wound with them as you may choose to weild a non stick frying pan. but guns are a cheap, easy tool.