Which of these theories fit better the storyline?

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Originally Posted by Future Esthar

I don´t ignore questions.
The majority of people don´t matter in representing the thruth.

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Ya, BUT IT MATTER IN THIS THREAD SINCE THIS IS A POLL THREAD. How many time must I repeat myself? It reflect what other think of your theories.

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Originally Posted by Future Esthar

I proofed that Julia was Ulti.
You proofed that Laguna and Raine were Squall´s fathers.

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For the sake of Jenova I didn't prove anything in this thread. I didn't even vote nor did I make any statements of proving anything.

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Originally Posted by Future Esthar

To say that I don´t proof mine and you proofed yours is just to state that graphical details were not as valid as dialogues.
But this is not proofed anywhere.Endpoint.

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Then what about the another factors? The game events, scripts....blah blah and your graphical details is still didn't show any results such as screenshots.

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Originally Posted by Future Esthar

You just purposedly say they don´t make sense but they do.They make as sense as LRS.No one has proofed me wrong yet.
Proof to me that LRS makes more sense that Julia = Ulti and I will shut up.

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Like I said before, I didn't made any statements regarding LRS and whatever stuff. But if you want proof, go read the long post by Sir Bahamut while yours is basically supported by nothing.

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Originally Posted by Future Esthar

It didn´t matter the quantity of evidences but the quality.

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What good quality evidences have you came up with? I rebuttled your portrait thingy so now what prove Ulti = Julia? Your own words that is supported by your so called graphical details and "logical" explainations?

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Originally Posted by Future Esthar

I don´t ignore questions.
The majority of people don´t matter in representing the thruth.
I proofed that Julia was Ulti.
You proofed that Laguna and Raine were Squall´s fathers.

To say that I don´t proof mine and you proofed yours is just to state that graphical details were not as valid as dialogues.
But this is not proofed anywhere.Endpoint.
You just purposedly say they don´t make sense but they do.They make as sense as LRS.No one has proofed me wrong yet.
Proof to me that LRS makes more sense that Julia = Ulti and I will shut up.

It didn´t matter the quantity of evidences but the quality.

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That Destai and Crazy bay man guy showed you J=U was wrong.

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No,they don´t.They just post alternate possibilities for the theory.
I can do the same with the LRS theory to show ít weren´t better than mine.

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Future, we showed you how your J=U theory has many holes, because its based on your (and only your) out-of-game assumptions. However the L+R=S theory has MUCH more solid proof, based on in game events, character dialogue, character actions, etc. Your theories are based on the fact that we didn't see Julia die, and your (and only your) interpretation of Ulti's castle which leaves it WIDE open to argument, what with your so-called proof no-where near as valid as LRS .

How about this: suppose it wasn't even ulti's castle originally? Maybe it once belonged to a royal family from your Centra civilization (as you spoke about before), and she killed the entire family (she is an evil sorceress, after all), and took over the castle. Then perhaps, the picture was of the FORMER queen.

I'm not saying this is my belief (because its not), but this assumption is JUST as valid as your assumptions, and it would mean that your assumptions would be completely tossed out the window.

You're just sounding sillier and sillier as you go on, especially when you ignore proof posed against you..........

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Originally Posted by Future Esthar

I don´t ignore questions.
The majority of people don´t matter in representing the thruth.
I proofed that Julia was Ulti.
You proofed that Laguna and Raine were Squall´s fathers.

To say that I don´t proof mine and you proofed yours is just to state that graphical details were not as valid as dialogues.
But this is not proofed anywhere.Endpoint.
You just purposedly say they don´t make sense but they do.They make as sense as LRS.No one has proofed me wrong yet.
Proof to me that LRS makes more sense that Julia = Ulti and I will shut up.

It didn´t matter the quantity of evidences but the quality.

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That Destai and Crazy bay man guy showed you J=U was wrong.

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No,they don´t.They just post alternate possibilities for the theory.
I can do the same with the LRS theory to show ít weren´t better than mine.

And Sir Bahamut that was a real bad comparison.

In WWW 2 we had script(History books) and graphical(arqueological) evidences.

On FF8 the script(Julia is dead) and the graphical evidences contradict each other.
So just one of them could be right.

And WWW2 was not a game my friend.It can be showed with scientifical evidence.But in a game you can´t do it.

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Ok, this is starting to piss me off now. FE, if you want to feed us your cracked off theories, fine. But learn to spell! You haven't proven a damned thing. You have shown in this thread that you do ignore questions (and I bet you're going to go further by ignoring this and saying that I am just lying or that I don't understand). What's more, a single picture that looks nothing like either of the two characters that you claim it to be is nowhere near the amount of evidence supporting the LRS theory. Ulti's dress isn't red. We don't see her actually playing the organ (an arguement I note you dropped since my last mention of it), so that similarity is gone. And there isn't a damned thing in the game that gives even the slightest indication that J=U. And, while it may be hard to get this through your thick skull, when 1,000 people who have seen just as much evidence as you have argue with you, that should clue you in to something. Now, if you have seen a video for an FFVIII sequel or something that the rest of us haven't, then you could argue that your crackpot theories are correct and that we are all wrong (even then, you would have to prove that it wasn't some new twist thought up by Square, rather than part of the first game). But going purely off of what the game has showed us, you don't know any more than any of the rest of us, and from your posts, I'd say you know less. I've been accused of looking too deeply into games before (there's a thread dedicated to one of my theories in the FFTA forum), but this is total bull$#!+. "It doesn't matter if it doesn't look exactly like her because it is a portrait, not a photograph"?! So I suppose that it doesn't matter that it doesn't look a thing like either character, does it? I've already given an explanation (which you just ignored, choosing instead to focus on the least plausible of my theories; one that was in there in an attempt to demonstrate your own stupidity to you) as to why Ulti would have that painting in her castle. Unlike your ridiculous theory, mine also explains why she has all the other pictures, even though none of them are pictures of her (another thing about my post that you IGNORED, despite your reassurance that you don't ignore things). So please, stop and think before you post again. Oh, and don't forget to learn to spell.

EDIT: The graphical evidence and the script don't contradict each other, since nothing in your graphical evidence suggests that the picture is either Julia or Ulti. What was the name of the painting? "Red Clothes". Not "Ruler of the Castle".

to tell you people at the end of the game when you see the past Squall run past the future Squall, Martontalks to squall then Ultimecia apears and edea say dont worry she just needs to pass her powers to some before she dissapers. So Ultimecia could of got her powers from another sorcerer. The game says nothing about her being Julia!!

sorry for the misspelling I was typing way to fast.

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Originally Posted by Sakia

to tell you people at the end of the game when you see the past Squall run past the future Squall, Martontalks to squall then Ultimecia apears and edea say dont worry she just needs to pass her powers to some before she dissapers. So Ultimecia could of got her powers from another sorcerer. The game says nothing about her being Julia!!

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Julia wasn't (as far as we know, despite Future Esthar's insane theories) a sorceress anyway, so where Ulti got her powers doesn't mean anything.

(Of course, this post being the one which is easiest to rebuke, who wants to bet that it is the one that Future Esthar will choose to talk about next time he posts in here?)

Am I ignoring your posts?
You also ignores mines.

I said that the picture looks like Julia TOTTALY.
Not only on some details but TOTTALY.
Unless you think it is Julia´s twin sister this led to the conclusion that she is Julia.

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6) This final point isn't a very good argument, but it fits in neatly if we assume Laguna is Squalls father:

Laguna has Squalls card.

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So Headmaster Cid was Seifer´s fathers,no?
And Ellone is also Laguna´s daughter,no?

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5) The tutorial tells us that Moombas recognize people by licking their blood.

In jail, a Moomba calls Squall "Laguna" many times. This means Squalls blood was so similar to Lagunas that it fooled the Moomba.

That kind of scene isn't just put in there for randomness, nor to prove that Moombas are mentally unstable.

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Well, I can had met Arnold Schwartznegger at the past and being a great fan of him.
And then I could be a doctor making DNA test.
If you consult-me to know the results and I just say "Schwartznegger"
did this mean you are his sun?
What about if I was thinking on him when I give you the results and yelled that word out of joy?It can happen,specially considering animals tend to be very expressive.
And scenes like the picture on Ulti´s castle weren´t put there for randomness also.

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4) Talk to Kiros and Ward in the Ragnarok, and Ward will say "Good thing you don't look like your father" in a joking manner,
Kiros says "you look more like your mother".

Kiros and Ward know the parents, and the father well enough to make fun of him jokingly.
Who fits into this description then?

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As someone said on the forums they can already know Squall´s fathers and talk about them to Squall.There are so many persons on the world of FF8.

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3) In the Ragnarok, Laguna tellls Squall that "Ellone has told me everything" and "We'll talk when this is all over".

Since Ellone had just stopped her quest to get Laguna to see his newborn child, one would expect her to tell all about the child to Laguna, and it seems rather farfetched that she refused to give him the true identity.

This would also have been basically the most important thing Ellone would tell Laguna, so it seems plausible that he is going to talk to Squall on the same issue.

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Everything about you being the ones that were sent to their heads.
Maybe Laguna will tell him who were his parents.But it doesn´t mean it was him and Raine.

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1) Laguna = Lagoon. Raine = Rain. Squall = Brief windstorm, usually with snow or rain.

All these names are connected, they are all to do with water.

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So I know what´s the name of Raine´s child.It is FLOODINGLAKE.

Really,if my fathers name was Firaté and my mother Firagá should my name be Fireman?

Really,this doesn´t mean nothing.

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2) Raine and Laguna had a child together. That child was sent to the orphanage

The children in the orphanage at that time were as we all know, Squall, Seifer, Ellone, Quistis, Zell, Irvine and Selphie.

Ellone is the adoptive sister to that newborn child, and spends a significant part of her life trying to get Laguna back to Raine and this child.

Coincidentally, who is the one person in the orphanage who Ellone is closely attached to? Squall.

Also notice how none of the other children are paid attention to at all when it comes to this plot question, and seeing as how it is a very relevant part of the game, you'd think Square didn't just decide to drop it completely.

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This one is a difficult to rebuttle.
First,there were many children at the orphanage.
Second,she brought the children to the orphanage.But can´t she just start to have a special relation to a children other than the one she brought from the orphanage?Is it impossible at all?
What about if this children was developed by Square just to justify Ellone sending our heros counscience to the past so that Laguna would come to know this child?

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Originally Posted by Future Esthar

I said that the picture looks like Julia TOTTALY.
Not only on some details but TOTTALY.

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Future, you're really beginning to sound like a Moron. Let it go man, it looks NOTHING like Julia.

[QUOTE=Future Esthar]Am I ignoring your posts?
You also ignores mines.

I said that the picture looks like Julia TOTTALY.
Not only on some details but TOTTALY.
Unless you think it is Julia´s twin sister this led to the conclusion that she is Julia.

[QUOTE]6) This final point isn't a very good argument, but it fits in neatly if we assume Laguna is Squalls father:

Laguna has Squalls card.

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So Headmaster Cid was Seifer´s fathers,no?
And Ellone is also Laguna´s daughter,no?
(to be edited)


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You're being an idiot. He even said it wasnt a good point but it would make sense that he'd have it with all the added evidence for the theory. And Julia looks nothing like the woman in the portrait.

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Originally Posted by Future Esthar

Am I ignoring your posts?
You also ignores mines.

I said that the picture looks like Julia TOTTALY.
Not only on some details but TOTTALY.
Unless you think it is Julia´s twin sister this led to the conclusion that she is Julia.

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6) This final point isn't a very good argument, but it fits in neatly if we assume Laguna is Squalls father:

Laguna has Squalls card.

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So Headmaster Cid was Seifer´s fathers,no?
And Ellone is also Laguna´s daughter,no?

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5) The tutorial tells us that Moombas recognize people by licking their blood.

In jail, a Moomba calls Squall "Laguna" many times. This means Squalls blood was so similar to Lagunas that it fooled the Moomba.

That kind of scene isn't just put in there for randomness, nor to prove that Moombas are mentally unstable.

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Well, I can had met Arnold Schwartznegger at the past and being a great fan of him.
And then I could be a doctor making DNA test.
If you consult-me to know the results and I just say "Schwartznegger"
did this mean you are his sun?
What about if I was thinking on him when I give you the results and yelled that word out of joy?It can happen,specially considering animals tend to be very expressive.
And scenes like the picture on Ulti´s castle weren´t put there for randomness also.
(to be edited)

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Actually, yes, you are. There is still no attempt at you to rebuke any of the points I have made in any of my posts, save for your single failing attempt to claim that the woman in the picture looks exactly like Julia, which is laughable, at best.

Also, while I do not doubt that you might shout "Schwartzenegar" at random times, thus far Moomba's have shown themselves to be far more intelligent than you.

No, scenes like the picture weren't put there randomly. They were put there for the puzzle, dumb@$$. What is the special meaning of the other 11 pictures then? If the pictures were put there for some special purpose, then what is the meaning of the other ones?

Trying answering some of my arguements, before you make an even bigger idiot of yourself (something I would normally think was immpossible, but which I have no doubt you are capable of).

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Originally Posted by Future Esthar

There are so many persons on the world of FF8.
(to be edited)

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Exactly. So, given that there are many people on the world of FF8, how many women have black hair, and wear a red dress, other than Ulti? More than 1 (Julia), you can rest assured, especially over the course of history.

You have just given reasoning to the fact that the lady in the painting is MOST likely not Julia.

In fact, it looks NOTHING like Julia, meaning that it, in fact IS NOT Julia.

Thank you come again.

-If Julia = Ultimicia, and Ultimicia was using the Junction Machine Ellone (which she was) to go into the past to control people, she would have known Laguna, and Rinoa, and others who she would have been able to use them in her search for Ellone, but she didn’t seem to know anyone other than sorceresses, most likely because of some sort of bond between them due to her inheriting their powers in the distant future when she exists.

-Same goes for Edea and Rinoa being Ultimicia, as well, Rinoa knew where Ellone was at some point of the game (ex. Blamb Garden). Edea also knew where Ellone was throughout the game.

-On top of that, both Edea and Rinoa meet Ellone, but obviously, same cannot be said for Ultimicia, as she never goes into Ellone’s body.

Post 112 was tottaly edited.
There is nothing in the game which suggests that a sorceress
can send her consciousness to the mind of a sorceress she don´t knows but whose power she can inherit.

Let´s forget the Julia=Ulti thing for a while and just concentrate on LRS for now.
I will come back with Julia=Ulti later.

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Originally Posted by Future Esthar

Post 112 was tottaly edited.
There is nothing in the game which suggests that a sorceress
can send her consciousness to the mind of a sorceress she don´t knows but whose power she can inherit.

Let´s forget the Julia=Ulti thing for a while and just concentrate on LRS for now.
I will come back with Julia=Ulti later.

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Yep, you edited it. You also continued to ignore my posts. That's fine with me, since it is pretty much admitting that you have nothing with which you can refute my points, but I had hoped that you would be a little less of a sore loser. Still, since you say to forget the Julia=Ulti thing, I will oblige you and I won't bug you about it anymore.

BTW, I agree on that last bit. Nothing suggests that sorceresses can send their conciousnesses back at all. That ability is unique to Ellone (and the machine that Dr. Odine built based off of her).

Squall = Laguna
Selphie = Quistis
Irvine = Cid at an older age


Basically the point I'm trying to make is, your theories make no sense, and the fact that you start yet another thread about this is beyond me.