is Sephiroth the best bad guy in the series?

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Originally Posted by Dragon Mage

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and so trying to destroy a planet to become a god isnt the work of an insane genius?

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No. It's the work of an insane person. I mean really-becoming a god? That's not even scientific, it's religious. At least in science they have a plausible way to acheive something real...

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Yes really becoming a god... not in the sence of religon but in the omnipotnt side and like I said before while it may seem far fetched to you or me, I distinctly remember someone tell me this was a fantasy game...:rolleyes2

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Originally Posted by Dragon Mage

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Well not being a goth myself I wouldnt know much about goths but IMO Sephiroth has a very gothic aperance

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*pish*, black clothes, white makeup. Easy. Anyone will look gothic. But Sephiroth actually enjoys what he's doing, Goths don't. It would be insulting him too much to call him a goth.

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not that im saying your wrong or anything but there have been quite a number of goths that have enjoyed being evil like so:

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Originally Posted by Wiki

The gothic fascination with the macabre has occasionally raised public concerns regarding the well-being of goths. Popular media has occasionally made reports that have reinforced the controversial conceptions that all goths are evil, or have a connection with Satanism, as exemplified by the fallout of the Columbine High School massacre, (which was carried out by two students labeling themselves as the 'Trenchcoat Mafia') linked to the goth subculture. Other such reports of killers having goth affiliation have been the Red Lake High School massacre, the Scott Dyleski killing, the Dawson College Shooting, and others, all of which were accused to have had a link to the goth subculture.

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again while not all goths are as such of the above there are some that DO enjoy doing what they do.

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Originally Posted by Dragon Mage

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No I distinctly remember Jenova/Sephiroth saying that it would Threaten the life of the planet no matter what would happen in the real world... this is Final Fantasy after all

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One can be injured, live a while, then eventually die from the wound. And in the time the planet was dying from the wound, Sephiroth could do whatever evil deed he had in mind. I'm not saying that planet destruction would be immiediate-just fatal.

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but on the flip side the planet could also heal itself, but lets no go down that path for the moment, say the planet did die, Sephiroth would be so powerful then that he could move from planet to planet without the need for air or anything.

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Originally Posted by Dragon Mage

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erm did I miss the point where he used SuperNova on your team... or where he summoned a massive meteor to become a god now lets think about that a second one fireball = 14 centaurs, one meteor = possabillity of one planet aka a shed load of people, its the fact that he doesnt need to use his awesom magical powers to own, he is very versatile.

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To destroy the planet...so you're agreeing with me?

As for the rest of the quote, thank you for proving my point.

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sorry I didnt realise you was so padantic... iv changed it to say what I really meant...

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Originally Posted by Dragon Mage

For the last line...
Are you quite sure? If you remember in the flashback, all he did was cast lightning when ever there was a random encounter. The only time you actually saw him use his sword was 1)against the dragon, and 2)on Tifa.
It seems to me he relied on magic a lot. I could kill a dragon with one short spell, far superior to using a sword, however D&D does not mesh well with the Final Fantasy battle system. The damage counts are way off.

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so you missed the part in FFVII:AC where he and Cloud had a massive battle with Swords. and about the D&D... I never played the game and besides, are we not disscussing Sephiroth, D&D has nothing to do with him.

I think a lot of people have got Sephiroth mixed up with somebody else he turned to the dark side when he found out the truth! he isn’t a mummys boy! Haha he wants to make it up to her because she should have been the ruler of the planet! that’s natural you can understand his point of view he’s mad and a genius it depends from what way you look at it!

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es really becoming a god... not in the sence of religon but in the omnipotnt side and like I said before while it may seem far fetched to you or me, I distinctly remember someone tell me this was a fantasy game...

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I clearly remember him saying that he would cease to be of this world and would become a god. Not the ultimate badass-a god.

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again while not all goths are as such of the above there are some that DO enjoy doing what they do.

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I see what you're getting at but what I meant is that Sephiroth is happy doing what he does. As a general rule, Goths aren't happy. Ever.

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but on the flip side the planet could also heal itself, but lets no go down that path for the moment, say the planet did die, Sephiroth would be so powerful then that he could move from planet to planet without the need for air or anything.

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Yeah. So? What's your point?

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sorry I didnt realise you was so padantic... iv changed it to say what I really meant...

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Is 'anal retentive' spelt with a hyphen? :lol:
sorry bad joke.

okay, that clears up that one point. But the rest of it still proves my point. His awesome magical powers is what makes him so formidible. (SuperNova, Meteor). And it's the reason why the planet is about to be destroyed.

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so you missed the part in FFVII:AC where he and Cloud had a massive battle with Swords. and about the D&D... I never played the game and besides, are we not disscussing Sephiroth, D&D has nothing to do with him.

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But you never saw the damage Sephiroth inflicted in the movie, in the absence of damage #'s. The whole fight was each one blocking the others' attack, and Sephiroth got in a hit only once. With no #'s.
As for D&D; Well, you quoted what I said and that was said in D&D terms. If D&D damage counts were raised up to those in FF, than one fireball could easily kill a wing of dragons. The two are far unbalanced, and so direct comparison is not fair.

btw, you really should play D&D. You'll like it.

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Originally Posted by chrisfffan

I think a lot of people have got Sephiroth mixed up with somebody else he turned to the dark side when he found out the truth! he isn’t a mummys boy! Haha he wants to make it up to her because she should have been the ruler of the planet! that’s natural you can understand his point of view he’s mad and a genius it depends from what way you look at it!

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You overestimate Sephiroth's power. The only thing that really showed that Sephiroth had pretty good power was the fact he could surpress Holy.

And where are you getting this genius thing from? His plan is barely thought through. If he was a genius he would've counted on his barriar being broken through. He had no secondary plan, he counted on his barriar and when it fell he had no backup plan. Nothing to fall back on.

Kefka.

He 'won.'

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Originally Posted by Dragon Mage

I clearly remember him saying that he would cease to be of this world and would become a god. Not the ultimate badass-a god.

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To be frank, the concept of a god is so badly defined as to be worthless. Kefka also defined himself as a god, and he was 'merely' incredibly powerful. If I recall the entirety of Sephy's plan, he wanted to become so powerful as to become nigh invulnerable, immortal, etc, in the classic, grecian understanding of what a god was.

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I see what you're getting at but what I meant is that Sephiroth is happy doing what he does. As a general rule, Goths aren't happy. Ever.

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As a general rule, they're also not particularly physically active, but I've known some exceptions. However, Sephiroth isn't a goth (as ill defined as the concept is), but a sadistic egomaniac of the grandest design.

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Yeah. So? What's your point?

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Well, the entire point was that his plan, were it successful, didn't need a living planet to stay around.

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okay, that clears up that one point. But the rest of it still proves my point. His awesome magical powers is what makes him so formidible. (SuperNova, Meteor). And it's the reason why the planet is about to be destroyed.

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Agreed, though I hesitate to attribute any in battle spell to reality. Though relating this back, always be hesitant to attribute magic> over things as a blanket, because its terribly inconsistent across worlds.
Though he was supposedly death in a trenchcoat on the battlefield without the materia as well.

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so you missed the part in FFVII:AC where he and Cloud had a massive battle with Swords. and about the D&D... I never played the game and besides, are we not disscussing Sephiroth, D&D has nothing to do with him.

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But you never saw the damage Sephiroth inflicted in the movie, in the absence of damage #'s. The whole fight was each one blocking the others' attack, and Sephiroth got in a hit only once. With no #'s.
As for D&D; Well, you quoted what I said and that was said in D&D terms. If D&D damage counts were raised up to those in FF, than one fireball could easily kill a wing of dragons. The two are far unbalanced, and so direct comparison is not fair.

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One Meteor Swarm perhaps, but definitely not one fireball.

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btw, you really should play D&D. You'll like it.

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I agree. Depending on your DM, though, your mileage may vary.

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To be frank, the concept of a god is so badly defined as to be worthless. Kefka also defined himself as a god, and he was 'merely' incredibly powerful. If I recall the entirety of Sephy's plan, he wanted to become so powerful as to become nigh invulnerable, immortal, etc, in the classic, grecian understanding of what a god was.

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There's a huge difference there. A god has complete power over life and death, and can understand the concept of infinity, as well as being invulnerable and immortal. Sephiroth may be able to get the power, but he's still got stats, and if it's got stats, it can be killed, which wouldn't make him a god.

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As a general rule, they're also not particularly physically active, but I've known some exceptions. However, Sephiroth isn't a goth (as ill defined as the concept is), but a sadistic egomaniac of the grandest design.

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Truth.

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Well, the entire point was that his plan, were it successful, didn't need a living planet to stay around.

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Exactly. The argument was if Meteor would destroy the world or not. Then the sudden change of topic. Hmmmmm.....is someone DODGING!!!!!!!

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One Meteor Swarm perhaps, but definitely not one fireball.

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True. I did exaggerate a little too much...

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Originally Posted by Dragon Mage

There's a huge difference there. A god has complete power over life and death, and can understand the concept of infinity, as well as being invulnerable and immortal. Sephiroth may be able to get the power, but he's still got stats, and if it's got stats, it can be killed, which wouldn't make him a god.

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Even the grecian gods could be killed. As I said, the concept of what entails a god has wildly fluctuated over the years. None of what you said universally applies to gods (even immortality doesn't always come up).
Of course, in D&D, even gods have stats. And I do agree, if it has stats, it can be killed (with the exception of Cthulu, and they literally cheated for that result), but being killable doesn't make one not a god.

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Exactly. The argument was if Meteor would destroy the world or not. Then the sudden change of topic. Hmmmmm.....is someone DODGING!!!!!!!

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No, more stating that the planet living and dying is slightly irrelevant. I still maintain that Meteor was not based around raw Kinetic Impact, and even if it were, it wouldn't obliterate the planet. At worst, it would cause a nuclear winter effect and leave another massive crater where Sephypoo could situate himself and soak up all the energy willy nilly.

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True. I did exaggerate a little too much...

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Eh, no prob.

where is this coming from Sephiroth is a Goth haha don’t make me laugh they don’t hurt anyone! haha you could say Vincent is a Goth too with his dark clothes and cold personality but he’s not!

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Even the grecian gods could be killed. As I said, the concept of what entails a god has wildly fluctuated over the years. None of what you said universally applies to gods (even immortality doesn't always come up).
Of course, in D&D, even gods have stats. And I do agree, if it has stats, it can be killed (with the exception of Cthulu, and they literally cheated for that result), but being killable doesn't make one not a god.

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Heh, it just goes to prove that gods are as unconstant as the humans that believe in them. I agree, 'god' is just too broad a subject to debated over in this form.
And though being invulnerable doesn't make one a god, I'm sure it would help. Though Sephiroth didn't actually seek to make himself literally invulnerable; rather he just sought to gain so much power it would be nigh impossible to kill him.

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No, more stating that the planet living and dying is slightly irrelevant. I still maintain that Meteor was not based around raw Kinetic Impact, and even if it were, it wouldn't obliterate the planet. At worst, it would cause a nuclear winter effect and leave another massive crater where Sephypoo could situate himself and soak up all the energy willy nilly.

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Irrelevant? If it happened to Earth it would sure seem pretty darn relevant I think.
And just how do you think the dinosuars were wiped out? A massive asteroid impact that covered the planet in a cloud of dust and ash for many years. Water condesned around all the particals and fell in the form of percipitation. However, this cloud effectively blocked out virtually all sunlight, so the percipitation was snow. Plants died, they would be the first to go, and after that, everything else.
The lakes, seas, oceans are all dead, with the exception of life that survives at the lowest point of the ocean. Even then, there's a small chance that those animals down there would survive, since there would be an enourmus disruption of the Earth's tetonic plates, causing heat to rise or vanish altogether. There's no fish in the upper waters whatsoever. The planet would be as lively and warm as Sedna. And it will last for thousands, or millions of years.
Nuclear winter is the most deadly thing that could possibly happen. That's no small matter to be tossed out as something 'causing another crater'. It wouldn't be 'just' another crater-it'd be the whole world that would become the crater. If Meteor did hit and cause a nuclear winter, that's the death knoll for the whole planet. And in this case the planet wouldn't ever be able to heal itself, ever-it would die from the wound and any remaing life on the planet would soon follow.

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Originally Posted by Ryushikaze

Even the grecian gods could be killed. As I said, the concept of what entails a god has wildly fluctuated over the years. None of what you said universally applies to gods (even immortality doesn't always come up).
Of course, in D&D, even gods have stats. And I do agree, if it has stats, it can be killed (with the exception of Cthulu, and they literally cheated for that result), but being killable doesn't make one not a god.

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Thats because god is a far overused word. And personally I can't think of a Greek God that died. They usually just have some eternal punishment (i.e. Prometheus having his kidney or whatever it was ripped out everyday)

Sephiroth ain't the best. Just like everything else in 7, he is WAY overrated. I mean, that's not to say he's a bad villain, or that VII is a bad game, they're awesome, but so are pretty much all the other games Square has ever made. I prefer not to pick favorites and get into these petty and divisive agruments over which game is the best, which villain is the best, which music is the best. When someone asks me what the best role playing game is, I tell them Final Fantasy. If they ask which one, I say all of them. Everyone, I'm sure, has their own preferences and therefore their own favorites. However, I do not believe that any Final Fantasy game is truly "better" than the others. This consistency is one of the reasons I think Final Fantasy is the best role-playing game series of all time. Damn, that was long-winded.:tongue:

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You overestimate Sephiroth's power. The only thing that really showed that Sephiroth had pretty good power was the fact he could surpress Holy.

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He could controll Jenova, was absorbing part of the Lifestream in the Crater, AND in AC, he became a God.

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If he was a genius he would've counted on his barriar being broken through. He had no secondary plan, he counted on his barriar and when it fell he had no backup plan. Nothing to fall back on

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He had Jenova Synthesis to protect him. And he have a "barrier" that protected him(when the heros reach the core of the world, Sephiroth's "barrier" made them float in the air, and they couldn't move their bodies, and when they tried to aproach him, they are threw back by a green energy).

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Originally Posted by The Crystal

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You overestimate Sephiroth's power. The only thing that really showed that Sephiroth had pretty good power was the fact he could surpress Holy.

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He could controll Jenova, was absorbing part of the Lifestream in the Crater, AND in AC, he became a God.

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First off when in AC is he ever called a god? Secondly Controling Jenova wasn't much power, that just gave him someone to do his bidding when he was stuck in the northern crater.

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Originally Posted by Goldenboco

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Originally Posted by The Crystal

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You overestimate Sephiroth's power. The only thing that really showed that Sephiroth had pretty good power was the fact he could surpress Holy.

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He could controll Jenova, was absorbing part of the Lifestream in the Crater, AND in AC, he became a God.

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First off when in AC is he ever called a god? Secondly Controling Jenova wasn't much power, that just gave him someone to do his bidding when he was stuck in the northern crater.

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You said that holding Holly was an example of Sephiroth's power. But you have to remember that Sephiroth's power is his will. He was holding Holly with the power of his will, and he was controlling Jenova with the power of his will too. Controlling Jenova is an example of Sephiroth's power.

He is never called a god in AC, but if i remember well, he is called a god in the Reunion Files.
In FFVII, Sephiroth wanted to have controll over all the Lifestream, becoming a god. In AC he has his own version of Lifestream that he could completelly controll. And his tainted Lifestream was more powerfull than the pure Lifestream, because he could corrupt the pure one, transforming it in his own version of Lifestream.
The Reunion Files say too, that in AC, Sephiroth is in his most powerfull form ever, and that he is the most powerfull character of the FFVII series.
In AC, Sephiroth is a god.