I'll write a more detailed post later, but I'll say a few things now.
I do enjoy the finale, but on a whole there was a lot of issues with it. However, there are so many little things throught, much like the Murder Mystery episode, that I just adored.
On a whole kind of a lack luster way to end a season.
Top 3 episodes? Indeed.
So, which of the two seasons would you say had the superior season finale? I would say Season 2 for the following reasons;
1. It felt more like a finale.
2. It had a more engaging storyline.
3. It was a really "awww" and romantic episode.
4. There was actually a threat to the ponies, and possibly Equestria itself, so there was more of an urgency for the mane six to succeed, where as in Season 1 it was just a case of "I've planned this day for so long, and now everything's going wrong". I liked it, but it fealt less of a finale.
The only thing that made Best Night Ever feel like a finale, is ironically the only thing that I thought that episode did better than A Canterlot Wedding; it foreshadowed itself - in Season 1, the ponies were talking about the gala throughout the season, so that made it feel like a finale, but nothing else did.
Season 1 had the way better finale.
There is a few big problems I had with this finale.
The biggeset is the finish. Its ending had next to nothing to do with any of our main six characters, and instead falls fully on two characters we have barely had a chance to get to know. I mean the time we've had with Cadence wasn't even half an episode.
Then there is the issue of the blatently evil Cadence. How the hell did anyone NOT figure this out? The fake clearly didn't do all that much research, she didn't even realize Twilight was Shining's sister.
You could make the argument that perhaps she was using her magic to do so, but why didn't she just do it to Twilight? If it's because of twilights skill in magic it may not have worked on her, then how would it have fooled Celestia?
I'm not bothered by the Idea of the Shapechangers being here to feed on the inhabitants, but more the plan is a bit fuzzy. First off, did the fake get here before or after the barrier was put up? It seems her goal was to go after SA specifically in order to take down the barrier, but then how did she get in to begin with?
And then there was the actual fight with the Changelings, which was great and fun, but ended up not mattering in the slightest.
And I'm bothered by the introduction of Shining too. Not the character or the fact he exists mind you, but it was baddly handled. Twilight was so pissed about this not being told he was getting married? Really? This is a guy who has not come to see her ANY of the times they've been in Canterlot, and the guy she cares SO MUCH about she hasn't mentioned him once in the entirety of these two seasons?
And I'm boggled by thier refusal to get Luna involved in the story. They had the perfect opportunity to do so. That's not really a major complaint, just me wondering what went through their head.
I disagree with you Seifer, because these issues make this finale hard to be engaging for me. All the characters I know and love from the show had little to nothing to do with anything. The only relevant thing they did the whole time was Twilight saving Cadence. That was the extent of our shows main characters relevance.
Compare that to the Season 1 finale. That finale, as you said, it 'foreshadowed itself'. That's probably a bad word to use, as FOreshadowing is used to hint at something that was going to happen, where as we all knew the Canterlot thing was going to happen. :p
Season 1's Finale had a lot of build up, I think is the better word. Everyone involved in it was characters we had connections with, not two new people we have no connection with.
I will say the jokes tend to be spot on in this episode though. And like the mystery episode, there is a rediculous amount of small details that I loved, and just well done scenes. The many Rarity getting overly excited scenes were wonderful, Fluttershy and Pinkie during the Changling battle were hilarious, and one of my favorites was during the wedding when Apple Jack slipped back on the hat when Rarity was sobbing. XD
And I'll note I hated Twilight and Fluttershy's hair at the end. AJ and RD were pretty cool, and I loved how Rarity's was the same as always.
So as I said, good episode on a whole, but there was to much I felt dragged it down to be satisfying as a Finale.
Question, why the heck did the queen TELL everyone in advance she was gonna do this, if she hadn't none of this would have happened.
I'll actually agree with HC on this one.
There are a few explanations I could come up with, but this isn't really based off anything in the episode, and is pure speculation based on next to nothing.
Because she's an idiot. Even Celestia could see that after she spilled the beans.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hypoallergenic Cactuar
In her defense, this episode just makes ALL of Canterlot look like idiots too. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Agent ProtoBecause she's an idiot. Even Celestia could see that after she spilled the beans.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hypoallergenic Cactuar
You had a lot to say, so I'll try to counter some of it.
A lot of characters were introduced in the same way throughout the show, so it's not just Cadence and Shining Armor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Big Hands
The queen kidnapped Cadence and hid her in the underground cavern. She only did this as to overtake Canterlot knowing about the love the Princess had from about everyone. Why would she take the time to study her history? She's not planning to take over Cadence's life. Not everyone noticed because of the stress preparing for the wedding would take, so they didn't think much of it.Quote:
Then there is the issue of the blatently evil Cadence. How the hell did anyone NOT figure this out? The fake clearly didn't do all that much research, she didn't even realize Twilight was Shining's sister.
She used her magic to take over Cadence's body to fool everybody (but Twilight). Again, everyone thought the stress from the wedding preparations was causing Cadence to act moodier than usual.Quote:
You could make the argument that perhaps she was using her magic to do so, but why didn't she just do it to Twilight? If it's because of twilights skill in magic it may not have worked on her, then how would it have fooled Celestia?
I think the queen manage to get inside using Cadence as her cover. She had to kidnap her to trap her inside the underground cavern.Quote:
I'm not bothered by the Idea of the Shapechangers being here to feed on the inhabitants, but more the plan is a bit fuzzy. First off, did the fake get here before or after the barrier was put up? It seems her goal was to go after SA specifically in order to take down the barrier, but then how did she get in to begin with?
He had the excuse of setting up the magic barrier around Canterlot and the wedding preparations, so he used that as his excuse. Just go along with it, not like he could come up with anything better. :pQuote:
And I'm bothered by the introduction of Shining too. Not the character or the fact he exists mind you, but it was baddly handled. Twilight was so pissed about this not being told he was getting married? Really? This is a guy who has not come to see her ANY of the times they've been in Canterlot, and the guy she cares SO MUCH about she hasn't mentioned him once in the entirety of these two seasons?
But she was helpful! In her own little way! http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs70/i/20...ax-d4x9fje.png :pQuote:
And I'm boggled by thier refusal to get Luna involved in the story. They had the perfect opportunity to do so. That's not really a major complaint, just me wondering what went through their head.
Also you forgot to mention the four songs in the finale that make up for the lack of songs in the second half of the season.
I wouldn't expect her to study all of her history, but at least a little bit of it. Knowing he has a sister likely to show up is ever so slightly important. :p
And being stressed over the wedding is hardly an excuse to fail to notice the worlds most obvious fake.
And for your Idea Cadence would had to have left since the raising of the force field.
And she would have to have left alone, during a time Canterlot was considered under threat.
Which would make her and Canterlot guards massive idiots. Your theory requires everyone to be massive idiots.
The fact it's obvious it's a fake 3 seconds into meeting her makes the whole situation difficult to buy into.
And the songs were pleasent enough. A little too cheesy, but still not bad.
Edit: And that image was awesome.
Like I said earlier, she's an idiot. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Big Hands
The ponies are too focused on the wedding to notice anything different. Except for Twilight, of course.Quote:
And being stressed over the wedding is hardly an excuse to fail to notice the worlds most obvious fake.
It's still possible, and yes the guards would have been major idiots. Remember how that one guard allowed Twilight inside the library when she was trying to sneak inside during "It's About Time?"Quote:
And for your Idea Cadence would had to have left since the raising of the force field.
And she would have to have left alone, during a time Canterlot was considered under threat.
Which would make her and Canterlot guards massive idiots. Your theory requires everyone to be massive idiots.
Twilight is like the second most important pony, why wouldn't they allow her in, she only was the princess's RIGHT HOOF GIRL for like ever.
Twighlight is probably a celebrity due to her relationship with the princess.
They let her in because he knew her, and it wasn't a big deal in the slightest. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Agent ProtoLike I said earlier, she's an idiot. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Big Hands
The ponies are too focused on the wedding to notice anything different. Except for Twilight, of course.Quote:
And being stressed over the wedding is hardly an excuse to fail to notice the worlds most obvious fake.
It's still possible, and yes the guards would have been major idiots. Remember how that one guard allowed Twilight inside the library when she was trying to sneak inside during "It's About Time?"Quote:
And for your Idea Cadence would had to have left since the raising of the force field.
And she would have to have left alone, during a time Canterlot was considered under threat.
Which would make her and Canterlot guards massive idiots. Your theory requires everyone to be massive idiots.
Twilight is the one deluding herself into thinking it was a big deal due to her state of Psycosis. :p
I'm going to interrupt your guys' argument with something awesome.
In "This Day Aria", Queen Chrysalis ends her verses in a deceptive cadence and Cadence ends hers in an authentic cadence.
/music theory nerd
Not quite. I think the deceptive cadence is in the BBBFF song where all but the last periods ends on an authentic cadence with the final one landing on a deceptive cadence and then Twilight doing a little lick from the theme song at the end.
This Day Aria is really interesting though. I've been trying to figure it out for a while and I just don't have all of the tools to do so. I recognize the scale structure as Phrygian dominant (Freygish) but don't know enough about constructing progressions in that mode.
The Intro "Verse" part at the beginning centers around Db (major) rocking mostly to a flat minor seventh (which I guess would be diatonic in Phrygian dominant except for the raised 5th). The two contrasting "chorus" parts center around the Ab (the dominant of Db), but make more sense when viewed in Db minor.
Chrysalis
The progression is Ab, Dbm, Gbm6, Dbm etc. If you think of it in Db that comes to V-i-iv-i. The oddest part is the first chord of the last phrase... an A (or probably more likely B double-flat). It seems to work as the bVI resolving to V then i.
A deceptive cadence would be something like V-vi or maybe V-ii, but that doesn't happen.
Cadance
The first two 4 bar sets are the exact same as above.
But THEN it gets really interesting.
We get a progression in Db major instead of minor and instead of centering on the dominant we center on tonic. Db Ab/C Bbm7 Fm. So in Db major that's I-V-vi-iii. Aside from the V chord being in first inversion, this is the Pachelbel progression that's so overused... but more importantly, Canon in D is used heavily in weddings (this progression happens while Cadance is leaning against the cart). It can't be an accident if you listen to the moving parts that so closely mimic the original.
The final four bars of this section are just a follow up to that line with Ebm7 (ii7), Bbm (vi), Gb(IV), Db(I). There's a lot of extra stuff on that last chord, but it's still clearly the I chord. Not deceptive... actually it's not authentic either. It's plagal (the amen cadence).
The little 4 bar interlude (as they fly through the air) is awesome too. Db, F/C, D/F#, D. It has a little neapolitan chord action going on after a borrowed bit. I-bIV-N-N. The first neapolitan is in first inversion (as per usual) and then resolves to root before the entire chord takes a parallel step down to Db to reprise the Verse section as a sort of outro.
The big difference is that instead of Am-Db as it was the first time, it seems we step completely out of Db, in fact it's probably a series of secondary functions. Em7, F#, Bm. In the key of B minor it makes sense as a plain iv7-V-i cadence, but if we look at it next to Db we think of it as a iv7/vi-V/vi-i.
While not a classically deceptive cadence (where you feel the dominant of your key leading to I and are interrupted by a sudden move to vi or ii or something) it basically uses a series of a chords, secondary subdominant and dominant to cadence the entire piece on B, which is the vi of the main key.
This thing was masterfully crafted and despite not having as much spunk and catchiness as Winter Wrap-Up and Smile, Smile, Smile, it may be one of my favorites. My wife was also hugely impressed with it. I've watched it a dozen times and still almost lose it when Cadance leans against the cart. Right before, Twilight looks afraid, then Cadance rushes in with desperation, Twilight looks shocked, Cadance streams with tears as Pachelbel's Canon rings over and she talks about her love for Shining Armor, Twilight sees her resolve and her pupils respond as she suddenly realizes the depth of Cadances devotion and helps her free the cart.
Oh god... that part is so overwhelming... and the neapolitan chord standing out starkly as they soar over the abyss right before Cadance lets out her wings.
Okay... I'm gonna go now.
NOTE: The hardest part about writing this post was typing cadence and Cadance differently.