Yea I kno...just thinking out loud :P
Yea I kno...just thinking out loud :P
rusty_angel777 will you please stop just repeating that it's incorrect without giving any reasons, it's not really adding much to the debate.
D Edea says "OUR time", that just refers to the time for the group at that point, not that she knows noone from the present is in the future. She says none of them can exist, but obviously Ultimecia can, and Ultimecia has to be someone, so it doesn't disqualify Rinoa.
Ultimecia lives on her own, in a world where towns are inpenetrable, she built a floating castle, has teleporting gates, has the ability to alter GF abilities (admittedly not an uncommon trait), has magic noone else has, and her looks, name and accent have almost certainly changed at some point. Given she has to have done this in the part of her life AFTER gaining her powers, and has an obviously fixation with controlling time, why is it such a huge leap that she worked out how to live longer than humans?
The funny thing is, Ulty didn't compress all of time. She can only bend the time that JME and ellone can work with, from Adels childhood to Ultys present time. This all incorporates squalls life time. Otherwise she wouldnt need Ellone to bend all of time, just JME.
Along with the Squalls time of buidlings, we should eb able to see the old centra civilizations and the new ones in ultys time.
So there is some importance as to why she wants to bend that bit of time. possibly because of Squall? Her past?
Also, how the hell did she find out about Ellone? Thats a big one.
Nice observation with the altering of GF magic and accent (Kurse Seeds).
She began to compress time, but didn't get there completely. The SeeD team was able to move forward through time after the compression began; they had to allow the process to begin. However, they were able to stop Ultimecia before she could complete the process. She wasn't compressing just the time period encompassed by Squall's life, but rather all of time. However, in order to do so, the time compression magic had to be used at two different points, as far apart as possible. The JME didn't have enough 'range' to do so; she had to get Ellone to take back a few more decades, into the young Adel, in order to set things in motion. She knew about Ellone because of the machine - she researched and learned how and why it was invented, at least that's what Odine postulates. You can't see all of the world's history in the 'compressed future' because that hasn't all been compressed together at that point. By compressing time, Ultimecia would be able to absorb the power from all sorceresses throughout history and become somewhat god-like; that was her goal.[q=PhoenixAsh]her looks, name and accent have almost certainly changed at some point.[/q]Well, that's starting from the assumption that R=U. It's possible that Ultimecia is somebody completely unrelated, and always had an odd accent (dialects do change over time), and gave herself tattoos when she decided to become evil. Adel, we know has an altered appearance; but with Ultimecia this is by no means certain.Quote:
The funny thing is, Ulty didn't compress all of time. She can only bend the time that JME and ellone can work with, from Adels childhood to Ultys present time. This all incorporates squalls life time. Otherwise she wouldnt need Ellone to bend all of time, just JME.
Along with the Squalls time of buidlings, we should eb able to see the old centra civilizations and the new ones in ultys time.
So there is some importance as to why she wants to bend that bit of time. possibly because of Squall? Her past?
Also, how the hell did she find out about Ellone? Thats a big one.
If you suggest that Ultimecia knows about JME because she remembers the past, then that kind of contradicts with the idea that she's completely forgotten Squall, and forgotten herself - the only reason for why she'd willingly try to sacrifice her younger self in Deling City. Either she's forgotten things, or she hasn't. It's kind of awkward if you've gotta draw up a check-list of "things she'd need to remember in order to back up R=U" and "things she'd have to forget in order to back up R=U".
Couldn't she have just done that with JME?Quote:
Originally Posted by Big D
2 points farthest apart could have been her present and the limit of JME. after it were to compress, she can then use JME to take the next step. Ellone was simply a further point that led her to her doom pretty much. Why wouldnt she have just settled with JME limits instead of waisting her time in squalls world.
Was Ulty wanting to use Ellone throughout this entire process of collecting generations?
Its funny, with JME she could have did it just less efficiently and saved herself from all that work of embodyment. Its not liek it would have taken more time, its bending time so it wouldn't make a difference if She were impatient. Could there be another reason for using Ellone?
D I didn't start from R=U at all with those assumptions. I started with the unlikelyhood of someone being named Ultimecia at birth, along with being huge and having facial markings.
Ultimecia HAD to come from somewhere, she HAD to have had a lot of abilities that aren't shown in the game, and she HAD to have gone through all of these changes and aquired a castle and Griever through some means which probably took a long time. How any of this is done is not explained in the game, R=U is just a way to connect the present and future in a way that explains a lot of coincidences along the way.
Seriously..if Rinoa was Ultimecia then that game would have made it obvious. I didn't even think of r=u till I came on here. Because the game to me shows nothing that says "so rinoa is ultimecia?". Like I said before it would have been the main point of the game. But the point is to defeat her so she cannot compress time.
There lots of theories about why certain things happen in the game and LOTS of what if's.
Somebody e-mail square soft and clear this up..before someone gets hurt :D
Now!
No one's stopping you from emailing Square, ya know. And as I've said before, you'll probably get a form letter.
"Dear valued customer,
Thank you for your interest in our product. However we can not answer your questions at this time. Blah blah blah blah blah.
Sincerly, SquareEnix"
Besides as I've said before (as did someone else I think) who cares what Square say? They made FFVIII as it is, it's now free to interpretation as far as I'm concerned. If there's a gap to be filled I'll fill it with whatever I think makes the most sense.
As for making it obvious, I think Griever is a big enough hint to at least stop and question Ultimecia's relation to the rest of the game.
Well I'd like to hear what Square has to say about it, if they'd give us a straight-forward answer on it. I think a lot of people would care what they have to say about it.
Nope. The JME limit wasn't far enough, time compression simply wouldn't have worked. She had to go back further; Ellone was the only way to achieve this.Quote:
Originally Posted by celtcknight
Again, the JME is limited. It couldn't take her far back enough to use the time compression spell; and she can't just compress time 'piece by piece'. It's an all-or-nothing venture, like most FF-nemesis' grand plans. Without Ellone, Ultimecia couldn't take her mind far enough into the past in order to instigate time compression. This is explained in the game, so it's not merely my own conjecture. [q=PhoenixAsh]As for making it obvious, I think Griever is a big enough hint to at least stop and question Ultimecia's relation to the rest of the game.[/q]Or, to be cynical, the answer could simply be "Squall believes Griever is the most powerful GF; turns out he was right". [q=TheAbominatrix]No one's stopping you from emailing Square, ya know. And as I've said before, you'll probably get a form letter.Quote:
Its funny, with JME she could have did it just less efficiently and saved herself from all that work of embodyment. Its not liek it would have taken more time, its bending time so it wouldn't make a difference if She were impatient. Could there be another reason for using Ellone?
"Dear valued customer,
Thank you for your interest in our product. However we can not answer your questions at this time. Blah blah blah blah blah.
Sincerly, SquareEnix"[/q]That's probably how it would go. The only people who could answer this question conclusively would be the game's writers, who are busy, wealthy and probably working on a project all the time. It's highly unlikely that a help-desk technician would have the authority to hire a translator to relay a fan's inquiry to a very busy man.
Now, the writers might choose to give some answers, they might not... I guess we're all free to conjecture in whatever way we want, for whatever reasons.
Yeah, about that.... The only people who really can say one way or the other are the people who wrote the story. I have an opinion, but I don't know for sure, and I think it'd be better if we all realized that. Now, I can say that I read that Square has said that Rinoa is NOT Ultimecia, I can even give you the URL of the place I read it, but it's still not the same as hearing it from the source. Know what I mean?Quote:
Originally Posted by celtcknight
I know what you mean, Ive read it also. i had another late night argument/debate with abominatrix talking about what Big D said pretty much, just more bold, about how they might just lie to get us fanatics off their back...etc.
I guess Im still not understanding the whole time compression process.
If JME was too limited and Ulty had to compress time in one spell, and therefore had to use Ellone to reach Adels childhood, isnt that still only a piece of time and another limit? In order for Ulty to get all of time compression, she would need someone who could send one back as far the beginning of the Universe. Ellone had limits also. I understand the game explains some of this, however doesn't anyone see a contradiction here?
If you can't compress time say with a 10 minute window (JME), whats the difference between a 6 generation window (Ellone) when youre dealing with ALL of time that contains >1000000 generations? She would either need to jump to the beginning of the universe (not mentioned in game), or compress time piece by piece.
Ulty says at the end, you guys were in the brink of that time Kompression, like its a working process as D stated earlier. It sounds like it was still in the works by compressing piece by piece. If time compressed all at once, it would have happened in a split second.
In order to compress all time, the time compression spell needed to encompass a significant portion of time. It's not just the interval that gets compressed, but everything else besides. However, if the interval isn't big enough, there's not enough energy/distance/whatever to get the process going. It's like push-starting a car:
You can't push a car at 60mph, but once you get it started, it can reach that speed under its own power. Like time compression. Also, you can't push a car just by using one arm; you need a bigger force, just like the 'interval' defining how far Ultimecia had to go back, to set things in motion.
Also, I don't believe that time compression affected the entire universe, since such an effect would be infinite and therefore impossible. I reckon that time compression affected 'the world' only; the effects were confined to a select area of space. After all, her objective was to absorb the power of every other sorceress, not to absorb the universe as a whole. This is just what I believe, based on certain things in the game...Zen question: :"If the writers make up an answer, can it really be wrong?"Quote:
I know what you mean, Ive read it also. i had another late night argument/debate with abominatrix talking about what Big D said pretty much, just more bold, about how they might just lie to get us fanatics off their back...etc.
It can be wrong in theory...but in fact it cant.