Can't do an open world? I'm not buying it

So, I don't know if I'm solely alone, and I have a feeling that I'm probably not alone when I say I'm frustrated with Square for the lack of free roam in their past few Final Fantasy games. The last true free roam was of course 9 (except 11) but I've always read that they say that they can't make a free roam world with characters and buildings to scale. Well, I just played Just Cause 2 which is a Square Enix game on the 360 and I call B.S. If anyone has played it, they did it perfect with that so why can't it work for Final Fantasy? The cities are huge, landscape and mountains are huge and 400 square miles of free roam over the top territories....

Wasn't FFXII an open world? More than IX was at least.

XII was free roam for the most part, course it took something close to 6 years to make it, but it was technically breaking ground for SE. I believe SE's argument was they couldn't do a HD FF title with a free roaming world and what not, but revelations about XIII's development combined with what Versus XIII has been showing, I feel pretty much shows that statement was simply a cop-out excuse to explain why XIII was poorly designed, instead of the reality that XIII was mismanaged by corporate forcing the developers to make it use Crystal Tools, which itself was still in development, and then the teams all doing their own thing with no actual plan on what they wanted XIII to be like until SE CEOs promised a demo, which forced all the teams to finally get on the same page almost a year before its release.

Though it should be fair to point out that SE didn't make Just Cause 2, they were simply the publisher, the game was actually developed by a Swedish game company called Avalanche Studios and also by Eidos Interactive.

I think when SE mentioned that they couldn't do a highly detailed free-roaming world for a Final Fantasy game is because their resources are stretched so thin. Whilst it is certainly possible to do it, it might not be feasible at all.

It would certainly require a large team that's extremely dedicated and focused, as well as a ridiculous amount of money invested. And we've since seen quite a few companys recently coming under scrutiny for extremely bad working conditions to meet these kinds of expectations (such as Team Bondi and Gameloft working 120 hour weeks).

However I do believe things can be done a lot better than how SE delt with FFXIII. For once it'd be nice to hear SE just lay it out how it is rather than making up excuses and being secretive. In SE's defense though, there's a lot more to a Final Fantasy game than Just Cause 2 and there are many many many factors to consider than just creating environment assets (models and textures).

I think the issue wasn't so much that it was impossible, but that it would take more resources and time than was practical. It'll be interesting to see what the process for Versus XIII ends up being. Apparently it's going to be super open, and there'll be a world map, but it appears to be in a more modern urban setting, even using real areas of Shibuya as a model. It's been in development since FFXII was halfway done, I think.

Was XIII in development before Versus XIII?

No, it was announced in 2006, the year XII was released, XIII was the one that started actual development in 2004, though I believe SE announced they were making XIII in 2003. Versus XIII was revealed with the trailer for XIII.

Well you have to give some credit to the idea that to create a fully scaled RPG world would be an immense undertaking. Yes, Just Cause 2 is huge as are many other open-world games this generation but they can't possibly come close to the number of cities, towns, and unique areas we expect from a Final Fantasy. You can especially tell with the WRPGs that try to do this, how recycled all of the art assets are with dungeons that are probably identical to the last one you came across, and the entire game is only capable of nailing one art style. In Final Fantasy, I expect many.

I beat White Knight Chronicles a couple months back, and it had a huge open world, with some cities that were actually pretty impressive with how huge they are, all the people populated in them, and the number of unique interior areas. When I started playing I thought to myself, 'here's a good-looking HD RPG world, why couldn't FF do it?' BUT that was only one region! To multiply that by the number of regions I would expect from the game would be a massive undertaking and I do start to see Square's point.

That said, I do think it will be easier and possible very soon. With studios getting used to the modern engines and building up considerable asset libraries from multiple games, I do think we'll finally see that true classic FF/DQ RPG that nails everything the older games were about. Especially considering Versus has been in development for like 6 years, it may just be that game. It'll probably have to be on Blu Ray only, though, like Versus, because to go back to a shop in a town in the castle at the beginning of the game, whose chair file couldn't fit on the disc for the latter part of the storyline, doesn't seem it would be handled well with multiple discs.

Huh? I don't know what games you've been playing with free roaming, open worlds, but they certainly weren't Final Fantasy I-XIII, or X-2, or Dirge of Cerberus, or Tactics, or Tactics Advance, or Mystic Quest, all of which I've played.

Honestly I loved the way XII was set up world wise, I'd like to see more of that.

But I also loved XIII so they're free to continue in that direction and I'll be just delighted by it. :heart:

13 was nice at the end of the game. I'd prefer an overworld like Gran Pulse instead of some screen change where my characters become miniatures with only the illusion of freedom. In general though, FF games are notoriously linear, until the end of the game. The world maps just gave the illusion that you could go somewhere other than the next plot point in the story, but really... where did you go and what did you do that was so open-ended and non-linear? It was always point A to point B. Still though, at least there was the illusion in FF games prior to 13, whereas in 13 the vast majority of the game is LITERALLY a straight tunnel without even side paths. FF6, actually, in the whole second half of the game was pretty open, and 12 felt a lot more open than most FFs. Too bad all of FF13 wasn't like Gran Pulse. It's also too bad there wasn't really any story on Gran Pulse.

I actually thought Gran Pulse is what derailed FFXIII. Up until that point you were almost always using different party combinations of 2-3 characters, which forced you to adjust the strategies available to you. It also had a ton more character development and interaction. It was almost as if once each character got over their past, there was no need to have a presence in the storyline anymore, you could just have Barthendalus guide them to the end.

I understand it's only the illusion of nonlinearity that's gone but I think it's an important illusion nonetheless. I didn't realize how linear FFX was until I played FFXIII, and to me, that's the mark of a great game, considering FFX's field screen design is almost identical to FFXIII. I can't really tell what it was that disguised it in FFX, was it the pacing, the presence of towns, or even ATB Random Encounters???

I'm not really sure.

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

I understand it's only the illusion of nonlinearity that's gone but I think it's an important illusion nonetheless. I didn't realize how linear FFX was until I played FFXIII, and to me, that's the mark of a great game, considering FFX's field screen design is almost identical to FFXIII. I can't really tell what it was that disguised it in FFX, was it the pacing, the presence of towns, or even ATB Random Encounters???

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All three contributed somewhat. Also the presence of Blitzball provided a nice distraction. Similarly with mini-games, side stories, and the cloister trials.

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Originally Posted by Del Murder

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

I understand it's only the illusion of nonlinearity that's gone but I think it's an important illusion nonetheless. I didn't realize how linear FFX was until I played FFXIII, and to me, that's the mark of a great game, considering FFX's field screen design is almost identical to FFXIII. I can't really tell what it was that disguised it in FFX, was it the pacing, the presence of towns, or even ATB Random Encounters???

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All three contributed somewhat. Also the presence of Blitzball provided a nice distraction. Similarly with mini-games, side stories, and the cloister trials.

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It also helps if you like the story, I blame my dislike of the plot for being able to notice how linear and uninspiring the map design in FFX was. Still, at least X had the decency to litter the maps with "something" while none of it really great, was at least something to pass the time and relieve boredom and tedium, unlike FFXIII...

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

It also helps if you like the story, I blame my dislike of the plot for being able to notice how linear and uninspiring the map design in FFX was.

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Do you mean "uninspired" or do you normally look to map design for inspiration? ;)

edit: Also, starting to find the answer after Del's post, I think that's why a lot of RPGs have the fetch quests, the collectible flashbacks, a puzzle template (cloisters), and if you can throw a story-spanning side game in there like Blitzball, then that's just the icing on the cake for a great RPG. Especially if it's fun, which Blitzball WAS.

It's a little of both, see unlike you, I never found Spira interesting, and I do partially blame it on the map design making the world feel like the yellow brick road of Oz, so while it is certainly uninspired in its over-simplicity and lack of imagination, I also feel the map design leads to the game not inspiring a sense of being in a "living world" and drawing the player in. So I'll agree with you that it was uninspired design but I also stand that it was uninspiring as well. ;)