FF/RPGs/Gaming Demographics (Split from the other thread)

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Originally Posted by Tifa's Boobs

I'd say a majority of the fans of Final Fantasy are 18+, as most people have grown with the series. They should cater to all of their demographic, not just the younger audience.

That said, if a a teenager wants a boy meets girl story, they can play an older title. One title with the "former lovers" story would not throw off the series.

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If you went in with the frame of mind that you could make an rpg for older people because those people have grown with the series I think you would unfortunately find out that too many of those older people have quit playing games or rpg's to make the game very successful. The combat in Japanese rpg's is quite childish in itself.

RPG's will always be a genre for the very young. The majority of older gamers tend to be more into the open ended adventure games than Japanese rpg's.

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Originally Posted by darkchrono

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Originally Posted by Tifa's Boobs

I'd say a majority of the fans of Final Fantasy are 18+, as most people have grown with the series. They should cater to all of their demographic, not just the younger audience.

That said, if a a teenager wants a boy meets girl story, they can play an older title. One title with the "former lovers" story would not throw off the series.

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If you went in with the frame of mind that you could make an rpg for older people because those people have grown with the series I think you would unfortunately find out that too many of those older people have quit playing games or rpg's to make the game very successful. The combat in Japanese rpg's is quite childish in itself.

RPG's will always be a genre for the very young. The majority of older gamers tend to be more into the open ended adventure games than Japanese rpg's.

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I would disagree, if the Census of our own forum has showed me anything, it's that a large part of the fansbase is the 18+ crowd, most of whom got into FF during the PS1 era. I also feel we underestimate what teens can handle. Assuming that only a "boy meets girl" approach would appelal to them is kind of selling the younger generation a little short.

Combat system was also not always childish, it's become far too simple and action oriented in the last decade, but when it started, it was all about strategy. RPGs used to be considered the thinking man's game compared to all the reacing titles, sports, and shot'em ups that dominated the gaming arena.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

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Originally Posted by darkchrono

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Originally Posted by Tifa's Boobs

I'd say a majority of the fans of Final Fantasy are 18+, as most people have grown with the series. They should cater to all of their demographic, not just the younger audience.

That said, if a a teenager wants a boy meets girl story, they can play an older title. One title with the "former lovers" story would not throw off the series.

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If you went in with the frame of mind that you could make an rpg for older people because those people have grown with the series I think you would unfortunately find out that too many of those older people have quit playing games or rpg's to make the game very successful. The combat in Japanese rpg's is quite childish in itself.

RPG's will always be a genre for the very young. The majority of older gamers tend to be more into the open ended adventure games than Japanese rpg's.

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I would disagree, if the Census of our own forum has showed me anything, it's that a large part of the fansbase is the 18+ crowd, most of whom got into FF during the PS1 era. I also feel we underestimate what teens can handle. Assuming that only a "boy meets girl" approach would appelal to them is kind of selling the younger generation a little short.

Combat system was also not always childish, it's become far too simple and action oriented in the last decade, but when it started, it was all about strategy. RPGs used to be considered the thinking man's game compared to all the reacing titles, sports, and shot'em ups that dominated the gaming arena.

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Wolf Kano you can not base something off of the very small percentage of people you see posting on some message board. Message board populations generally represent a very small niche of the overall number of people who actually buy the game. As with anything message board populations are not a very good way to judge things off of. For instance if you went by what message boards said you would think some of the most horrible television shows there have been that got cancelled for a reason were actually the best thing on t.v. because that is what the small niche of people on that message board thought.

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Originally Posted by darkchrono

Wolf Kano you can not base something off of the very small percentage of people you see posting on some message board. Message board populations generally represent a very small niche of the overall number of people who actually buy the game. As with anything message board populations are not a very good way to judge things off of. For instance if you went by what message boards said you would think some of the most horrible television shows there have been that got cancelled for a reason were actually the best thing on t.v. because that is what the small niche of people on that message board thought.

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While this is true, I didn't base my information completely on just the census and I'm sorry if I made it sound that way. If you look at any long lasting franchise like say Star Trek or Star Wars, you'll find that the demograph that supports it is all over the place and isn't just the youngest generation that the bulk of the franchise is targeted towards, namely kids with all the collectibles and toys and games. Seeing how FF is a 25 year old franchise this year, I would say it's very likely that the series is still being supported by older fans just as much as the younger audience that it's targeted to. Gaming in general is actually being dominated more by older people than younger people. The average age range of a gamer is around 30. So I would argue that game developers that feel they still need to make writing appeal to a younger demographic like teen is kind of silly, especially with long lasting franchises barring games that are designed to be family friendly like Mario. Maybe what FF really needs in it's writing is the balls to tackle real mature themes, I mean we had games like Final Fantasy Tactics and Xenogears, that really brought up some more adult themes concerning religion and politics, and these games were released when the age range of the average gamers was in their teens. So I say it still stands that FF could write a more mature love story with an older group, and it would not be lost on the audience.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

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Originally Posted by darkchrono

Wolf Kano you can not base something off of the very small percentage of people you see posting on some message board. Message board populations generally represent a very small niche of the overall number of people who actually buy the game. As with anything message board populations are not a very good way to judge things off of. For instance if you went by what message boards said you would think some of the most horrible television shows there have been that got cancelled for a reason were actually the best thing on t.v. because that is what the small niche of people on that message board thought.

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While this is true, I didn't base my information completely on just the census and I'm sorry if I made it sound that way. If you look at any long lasting franchise like say Star Trek or Star Wars, you'll find that the demograph that supports it is all over the place and isn't just the youngest generation that the bulk of the franchise is targeted towards, namely kids with all the collectibles and toys and games. Seeing how FF is a 25 year old franchise this year, I would say it's very likely that the series is still being supported by older fans just as much as the younger audience that it's targeted to. Gaming in general is actually being dominated more by older people than younger people. The average age range of a gamer is around 30. So I would argue that game developers that feel they still need to make writing appeal to a younger demographic like teen is kind of silly, especially with long lasting franchises barring games that are designed to be family friendly like Mario. Maybe what FF really needs in it's writing is the balls to tackle real mature themes, I mean we had games like Final Fantasy Tactics and Xenogears, that really brought up some more adult themes concerning religion and politics, and these games were released when the age range of the average gamers was in their teens. So I say it still stands that FF could write a more mature love story with an older group, and it would not be lost on the audience.

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Wolf Kano you also are making a mistake by trying to compare video game appeal to movie appeal. Movies are something that everyone of all ages tend to enjoy. They may like different types of movies but nobody really gets tired of movies in general. Video games on the other hand are something that most folks tend to grow out of after a while.

The link you gave say 33% play on their smartphones and 20% play on their handheld devices. Most older folks who play video games tend to play real simple games that don't take much effort and a 'game' can be played very quickly. I don't think you will find a very high percentage of those adult gamers who play rpg's any longer. And sorry but you need more evidence to merit video game indrustries making games 'for them' then saying simply that they aren't playing rpg's because the storylines are childish.

We're talking demographics now? Okay!

70% of gamers play on their console and 65% on their PC, as opposed to smartphones.

"As of 2011, the average age for a video game player is 37, a number slowly increasing as people who were children playing the first arcade, console and home computer games continue playing now on current systems." (Wikipedia, emphasis added)

People between age 18 and 34 spend more time playing games than watching TV (multiple sources including this and this )

Video games are established as an art form and vehicles for expression and storytelling (Supreme Court of the United States, Smithsonian Museum of Art, US National Endowment of the Arts )

Saying that games can't or shouldn't tackle more "mature" subject matter is silly!

Omg, guys, demographics are so romantic.


(SPOILER) But seriously, for Pike, that's probably like freakin' Shakespeare while she stands on a balcony.

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Originally Posted by Pike

We're talking demographics now? Okay!

70% of gamers play on their console and 65% on their PC, as opposed to smartphones.

"As of 2011, the average age for a video game player is 37, a number slowly increasing as people who were children playing the first arcade, console and home computer games continue playing now on current systems." (Wikipedia, emphasis added)

People between age 18 and 34 spend more time playing games than watching TV (multiple sources including this and this )

Video games are established as an art form and vehicles for expression and storytelling (Supreme Court of the United States, Smithsonian Museum of Art, US National Endowment of the Arts )

Saying that games can't or shouldn't tackle more "mature" subject matter is silly!

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You will find a little different results for every different survey or list you look at. The fact though is is that a lot more people either stop playing video games completely once they become adults or at least do not play nearly as often then there are people who continue playing after they become an adult. Also rpg's like final fantasy are also one of the least popular genre's for people over 20/25. RPG's still are not nearly as popular as other genre's for people under 20/25.

Like it or not if you are an adult who still has a desire to play new Japanese style rpg's you will generally just be a niche and your interests will generally not be catered to.

Where do you get your information from, darkchrono? Pike listed several sources for her statistics.

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Originally Posted by Del Murder

Where do you get your information from, darkchrono? Pike listed several sources for her statistics.

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Del Murder online statistics and surveys truly are about as meaningless as personal opinions are. Everyobody knows that you can easily suade statistics to get the results you want to get.

The simple fact is is that most people do indeed tend to lose interest in video games as they grow older. They often either lose interest completely or do not play that seriously anymore. Yes there are an increasing amount of older people playing video games for the simple reason that people who grew up in the video game age are now adults. But still the majority of those kids from the early console eras still do not play nearly as seriously as they used to. They may own a video game system but that video game system often just sits there 90% of the time. And when they do play they tend to just play games that can be completed real quickly. Nothing that takes 50 hours to beat. Honestly the most effort I see adults putting into video games from my experience are either games like World of Warcraft or sports games (I have never seen or talked to a single person playing a japanese style rpg since I was in college).

Open ended worlds where the player can do what they want tend to be more appealing to older gamers (for those that do put in the effort to play those types of games) than a game where they have to follow a strict path.

And that is probably why games like World of Warcraft do so well these days. Because it attracts a very wide audience of gamers and not a very small window like Japanese style rpg's do.

But that is basically your opinion on the matter. I play quite a bit and I am definetly in the older than 20 crowd. All my friends and GF are in the same boat. Families are now using video games as a bonding moment, look at the Wii, I would argue gaming isn't really something "you'll grow out of it" if it was really part of your life. So who is really to say which is correct when you've decided that online survey data is meaningless? At this point, there is no real reason to even discuss this since you've disqualified any type of third party data to allow us to reach closure, and you're own reasoning is only backed up by your own baseless assumptions.

I still stand that a more adult minded RPG with a love story between older characters beyond the simple confines of silly stereotypes like "Boy meets girls" can have equally as much mass appeal.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

But that is basically your opinion on the matter. I play quite a bit and I am definetly in the older than 20 crowd. All my friends and GF are in the same boat. Families are now using video games as a bonding moment, look at the Wii, I would argue gaming isn't really something "you'll grow out of it" if it was really part of your life. So who is really to say which is correct when you've decided that online survey data is meaningless? At this point, there is no real reason to even discuss this since you've disqualified any type of third party data to allow us to reach closure, and you're own reasoning is only backed up by your own baseless assumptions.

I still stand that a more adult minded RPG with a love story between older characters beyond the simple confines of silly stereotypes like "Boy meets girls" can have equally as much mass appeal.

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Well what we do know is that rpg's are not being made for older gamers and there more than likely is a reason for that. While we have shooters that are very obviously made for adults and sports simulations that are so complicated that only adults could really understand them there still is nothing around that indicates that rpg's are being made for adults. Sorry but if there truly was enough merit to start making rpg's for older gamers these older gamers would still be playing rpg's on a massive basis. But they do not seem to be and at this point if they attempted to make a japanese rpg for older gamers that rpg probably would not do very well. Which is why the concept is not being attempted.

You appear to be obsessed with the idea that if children like it, adults won't. If you're not going to bother finding substantial evidence for your claims that once a person passes thirty, they suddenly lose all interest in beautifully written interactive stories with exceptional soundtracks, then it might be worth simply not repeating yourself over and over. And while it's true that surveys are never 100% accurate, when multiple independent surveys claim exactly the opposite of what you're suggesting, it's usually time to abandon ship.

Pokémon is a Japanese RPG and is well liked by both children and adults.

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Originally Posted by darkchrono

Del Murder online statistics and surveys truly are about as meaningless as personal opinions are. Everyobody knows that you can easily suade statistics to get the results you want to get.

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While that certainly can be true, it's at least some evidence where you have presented none. You can't say 'its a simple fact' without providing any evidence of it being fact. That makes it about as defensible as the opposite stance.

I can see how older people grow out of video games as they take on other roles in life, but at the same time I can see how a person who grew up playing games would do so even more once they are living on their own, have access to more money, and no longer have to answer to parents or school to dictate their spare time. Both scenarios are likely.

What an interesting tangent in a thread about romance!