Windows Vista

I don't recall there being a thread about this yet but then for a few weeks I have been offline due to the destruction of my old laptop. I brought a new one today it came with Windows Vista installed I was wondering if anyone else uses it yet and if so what you think of it also if you don't do you want to upgrade to it? I have to admit the GUI is very impressive but having conversed with several friends on the matter I have been informed that there are major issues with it and a 500 meg service pack comming in july. I don't have any problems thus far apart from getting used to it since I've had it only 10 hours if that. Oh for your perusal here's a pic of my desktop for you to see what Vista on a STANDARD set up has to show I've done no major tweaking on this yet.

http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/8...top1cr8.th.jpg

I just got a new laptop yesterday because my old one was a piece of crap! Here's a pic. The backround is a black-and-white photo of my ceiling fan.

I'll post more if anyone wants to see.

I'm not too interested in Vista for a few reasons. The cost, what I've heard about the integrated DRM, and some things they've changed with the GUI. I think the start menu and all look fine, but I'm not a big fan of the way they've changed the minimize, restore, and close buttons. The close button should be in the corner, not a bit to the left of it. I can almost guarantee I would quite frequently throw my mouse to the top corner of the screen to close a window, only to miss the button and have to waste time finding it. Seems like a small concern, but it would be irritating.

I imagine there's a lot more I would like and dislike about it, but I can't think of anything at the moment.

I'm content with Windows XP for now. The Vista theme looks nice and all, but I'd rather wait until I saved up enough for a new computer -- by that time they would probably have a lot fixed in Vista.

Anyways, you can get a Vista theme with Windowblinds. =)

I primarily use Gentoo Linux, but I have Vista RC2, build 5744 installed on a partition on my PC. Though it is visually a huge improvement over Windows XP, I really am not very impressed with it. Admittedly I'm a Linux junkie and therefore biased, and I am running a beta (though build 5744 is supposed to be basically the RTM version of Vista :rolleyes2), it has been very unstable for me. I've seen more bluescreens than in five years of experience with XP. Not more than Windows 98 though. :p
It didn't have very good support for my hardware out of the box - I had to hack XP drivers for my sound card and wifi card in through device manager, instead of recognizing a chipset and using the generic driver.
Redmond made a lot of noise about "streamlining the experience for the user", but then they've stuck things like the sidebar in there, which just seems like extra bloat to me. :p They've also taken away useful parts of the OS by default, such as the menubar, and the "up one level" button (which I can't figure out how to get back, for the life of me). And it took control of my bootloader, which is a hassle to restore. :p

On the positive side though, DirectX10 looks very nice, and I look forward to playing some games in it, rather than through the Directx9.0c legacy chip (which seems a little laggy to me). The interface is a lot more attractive, which is good after working a lot with Beryl in Linux.
I also like the redesigned layout of the control panel; it's a lot more intuitive and things are where you'd expect them to be. At first it was a little frustrating with things not being where they used to be, but it was relatively quick to figure out the new place of most things.

On the whole, it's a nice improvement over XP, if the instability is fixed in the RTM release (which I haven't tried yet). I like that I can make most things how they are in XP, so I'm not totally jumping out of an environment into another that is completely different.

I'll change in two years, when the public beta testing is done.

By the time public paid beta testing on Vista is done, Windows 2014 will be out. Taking into account inflation, it will cost $999 for the Standard Basic Home User's Grandma's Edition ($1999 for the Super Awsome McUltimate Non-crippled Edition). It will punch you in the groin every time you listen to a CD.

Sadly my parents' computer died and we're getting them a new one tomorrow, so I may get to "Experience the Wow!" tomorrow. Oh man that marketing slogan is catchy and extremely non-lame, I can't stop saying it.

I think we all expected that from you Unne. ;)

I won't get Vista straight away; I'll wait about a year or two. I'm in no rush to leave XP.

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Originally Posted by Dr Unne

Sadly my parents' computer died and we're getting them a new one tomorrow, so I may get to "Experience the Wow!" tomorrow. Oh man that marketing slogan is catchy and extremely non-lame, I can't stop saying it.

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I entered my cat into the Wow! contest. It left me awed and exilerated. :)
See attachment.

I think I'll wait a bit for Vista. :)

Holy crap. I have that couch.

I’ll probably get it, when I buy a new computer. So by that time, Windows will be several versions beyond Vista.
...I’m still on 2000. :(

Jon Stewart has Windows Vista. I can’t confirm whether or not he has installed it yet, though.

Holy crap. I have that cat.

If I can pirate it reasonably easily I might try it. XP and I just have this thing. And OS X. besides I have a date with linux

There's no chance of me upgrading to Vista. Not with the integrated DRM.

This computer will never see Vista however my desktop when it's done may.

I'm not a fan of integrated DRM, I don't think I will ever upgrade to Vista.

Hell, if this wasn't the family computer, I'd probably be using one of the various Linux distros.

Vista sure is cool, but it lacks so many things so i dont want to buy it.
They said this and this works and then they donts so I really dont want to waste my money. -.-

I'm not going to upgrade to Vista anytime soon, I can't afford it and don't want it. I'll wait til I need to get a new computer or laptop, hopefully not for another 4 years, but probably sooner :(.

What does all this "Integrated DRM" mean?

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Originally Posted by Loony BoB

What does all this "Integrated DRM" mean?

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Digital Rights Management. It's software that controls the copying and playing of digital media, so as to prevent copying and downloading music.

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Originally Posted by Odaisé Gaelach

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Originally Posted by Loony BoB

What does all this "Integrated DRM" mean?

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Digital Rights Management. It's software that controls the copying and playing of digital media, so as to prevent copying and downloading music.

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It prevents much more than that. It sometimes prevent legitimate uses of music like ripping your own CDs or making copies of your own MP3s. It prevents you from watching HD movies (even ones you've paid for) on any but an industry-approved monitor; if you try to watch it on a normal monitor Windows will deliberately make it look like trash. And so forth.

DRM also describes the process whereby Microsoft can at-will disable your entire system if they think you pirated Windows. http://www.computerworld.com/action/...icleId=9004970 Remember, you aren't buying Windows, you're buying temporary permission from Microsoft to use Windows until they decide to take your permission away.

I don't know that much about it, but for now I'm very happy with my Windows XP. I probably won't get Windows Vista unless I buy a new computer.

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Originally Posted by Dr Unne

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Originally Posted by Odaisé Gaelach

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Originally Posted by Loony BoB

What does all this "Integrated DRM" mean?

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Digital Rights Management. It's software that controls the copying and playing of digital media, so as to prevent copying and downloading music.

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It prevents much more than that. It sometimes prevent legitimate uses of music like ripping your own CDs or making copies of your own MP3s. It prevents you from watching HD movies (even ones you've paid for) on any but an industry-approved monitor; if you try to watch it on a normal monitor Windows will deliberately make it look like trash. And so forth.

DRM also describes the process whereby Microsoft can at-will disable your entire system if they think you pirated Windows. http://www.computerworld.com/action/...icleId=9004970 Remember, you aren't buying Windows, you're buying temporary permission from Microsoft to use Windows until they decide to take your permission away.

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Keep in mind though, that without this built-in DRM, you would most likely not be able to watch HD DVDs at all. This is isn't MS' fault :p, it's decided by that HD DVD interest organisation which most Hollywood studios are members of. I forgot its name.

-edit-
I also have a hard time believing Vista will add DRM to your non-DRMed audio files, and that it will prevent you from ripping an album with CD-Ex.

And to be fair, you don't own any of your music, movies or any of the other commercial programs you've paid for either, the only reason to complain is when the WGA makes a false positive. As long as those are kept to a minimum, people shouldn't be complaining, in my opinion. You're not buying a temporary license either, it's valid until the universe as we know it ends. Unless of course you break the license agreement you agreed to when you installed it, which you should have read before buying it.

That being said, I don't like the way product activation is implemented. I'm making a lot of hardware changes and reinstalls myself, so it just ends up being a bother. I own a license for XP Pro, but I downloaded and installed the corporate edition to avoid product activation.

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Originally Posted by Dr Unne

DRM also describes the process whereby Microsoft can at-will disable your entire system if they think you pirated Windows. http://www.computerworld.com/action/...icleId=9004970 Remember, you aren't buying Windows, you're buying temporary permission from Microsoft to use Windows until they decide to take your permission away.

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You mean that we're going to have to buy Windows legally now? :eek: :D

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Originally Posted by Mirage

Keep in mind though, that without this built-in DRM, you would most likely not be able to watch HD DVDs at all. This is isn't MS' fault :p, it's decided by that HD DVD interest organisation which most Hollywood studios are members of. I forgot its name.

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Aye, I remember reading about that in a magazine somewhere.

I am not a fan of change and new things so I will probably ignore it until I am forced not to :D

Widespread reports of trouble with both hardware and software incompatibilities for expensive cost and loss of rights to my media, with pretty much the only up side being a nice gui that can easily be recreated using theming software?

If I'm going to use an OS that's incompatible with Windows apps, I might as well stick with Linux. At least I won't be forking $200 for eye candy that I can get for free.

I'm pretty sure any media downloaded illegally won't be rendered useless under Vista. The DRM stuff is mostly for media aquired legally, but which prevents it from being extracted from its original source. You'll still be able to rip DVDs/CDs. It's the hi-def content that will be blocked without the appropriate hardware.

The main drawback of Vista right now is the poor driver support, especially in the 64-bit environment.

I got to experience Vista today, and it was amazingly underwhelming.

[qq=Mirage]I also have a hard time believing Vista will add DRM to your non-DRMed audio files, and that it will prevent you from ripping an album with CD-Ex.[/qq]

MS's Zune does add DRM to non-DRMed audio files. Vista may not (yet) but who knows later.

That would probably be illegal.

Zune is a music player capable of letting other Zune players listen to your music on the go, is it not? Not quite the same as an operating system.

Right now, my XP works fines on everything I do, including my games. But if XP ever stops supporting Eyes on Final Fantasy I'm gonna have to find some $$$ to upgrade to Vista fast! :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :tongue:

The neat thing about the web is that it doesn't go obsolete that easily.

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Originally Posted by Yamaneko

I'm pretty sure any media downloaded illegally won't be rendered useless under Vista. The DRM stuff is mostly for media aquired legally, but which prevents it from being extracted from its original source. You'll still be able to rip DVDs/CDs. It's the hi-def content that will be blocked without the appropriate hardware.

The main drawback of Vista right now is the poor driver support, especially in the 64-bit environment.

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Yeah, at the moment, that is correct. I have updates turned off, so that I none of the updates which have not just misleading, but false descriptions (frankenbuild, for example) are installed without my knowledge; and so that I can opt out of all "Windows Vista Updates", while installing the stuff that might actually be legitimately useful. Hopefully that's protection enough from any of the DRM changes that might occur.

And yeah, hardware support is still crap in build 6000. The plus side is that stability seems to have increased substantially since 5744.

The lack of generic hardware support out of the box really is not acceptable. It's not as if the manufacturers of devices need to code Vista drivers, because most pieces of hardware use a chipset not developed by their manufacturer; for example wifi cards generally use a chipset such as Marvell or Atheros, etc. and will operate under drivers for their respective chipsets. It's not a question of whether or not the manufacturers of the hardware are going to make Vista drivers, but whether or not Microsoft will actually include those drivers in Vista.

I am not a fan of the size of the icons or the whole shape. I think I'll wait for a while too. Windows XP isn't any bad.

All that can be changed, you know.

the up one level problem several people have mentioned is not a problem for me (I get it from others on other sites I frequent) simply where the path is listed scrolling left to right on the top of the "save file" or "documents" folders ect simply click the icon to the left of the last one it goes up one level. I know it's not as simple as the whole backspace or up one level button but it works just as quickly when you get used to it.

I am slightly concerned about DRM as my friends and me are always sharing music with each other and I am wondering if they send me an album will it work?

Also I have huge issues with some of the inbuilt tools for the system, such as the included extraction program for zip files. The 3 meg zip file I had to open earlier came up with a predicted time of 1hour 20 minutes and I wasn't using more than 30% of the processor and 40% of the ram on my laptop. I quickly cancelled and got myself WinRar.

Though the most annoying of the problems I have encountered is the lack of a Run command on the start menu.

Anyone know of a program that gives me the same look and effects as Vista's visual style?

I am, like most, going to remain with XP for the time being, most notably due to the shady DRM and the fact that I will be unable to be give up the Up one level button.

Whenever I purchase my new computer, however, I most likely will upgrade to Vista.

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Originally Posted by Nominus Experse

Anyone know of a program that gives me the same look and effects as Vista's visual style?

I am, like most, going to remain with XP for the time being, most notably due to the shady DRM and the fact that I will be unable to be give up the Up one level button.

Whenever I purchase my new computer, however, I most likely will upgrade to Vista.

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I got mine from this site. I don't know where exactly, you can look around and find it, sorry.
There are some other good themes that have cool looking Start menues and colours.
They are just VISUAL themes not complete ones.

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Originally Posted by Iceglow

Though the most annoying of the problems I have encountered is the lack of a Run command on the start menu.

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I thought that's integrated into the Start Menu now as that text box near the bottom? Or I could be remember things slightly wrong from my brief period of having a look at Vista :p

chrono that search box doesn't work half as well as the run command did. I had to use it earlier to find a folder and in the end went off to manually hunt it down.

The start search box does work in the same way as the run dialog, however. It's a sub-par replacement for the run box (which was probably the best thing about XP), so if you still want to access it, press Window+R to bring up the old one.

[q=Nominus Experse]Anyone know of a program that gives me the same look and effects as Vista's visual style?[/q]
This isn't so much a program as it is tweaking XP desktop settings. It means you don't get the hulking overhead that Windowblinds or Astonshell dumps on you. :p

Click for guide

five points to quicksilver, eh?

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Originally Posted by Nominus Experse

I am, like most, going to remain with XP for the time being, most notably due to the shady DRM and the fact that I will be unable to be give up the Up one level button.

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The Up One Level button has got to be my most used button at work. Are you sure this is gone with Vista? We're getting new computers there soon and I would really hate to be without that button.

...up one level button?

I feel so out-of-touch with this new fandangled stuff being mentioned in this thread. :(

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Originally Posted by Loony BoB

...up one level button?

I feel so out-of-touch with this new fandangled stuff being mentioned in this thread. :(

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You know when you're browsing files, and you have that button that takes you to the file that holds the file you're in? That's the "Up-One-Level" button.

And if that goes, so help me god... *shakes fist.*

Why, I was always more fond of the "back" button. In fact, I've always wanted backspace to preform the "back" action instead of "up one level".

The Up button is gone, yes. They switched to using "breadcrumbs". Each part of the pathname is clickable. (Copied off of Linux, looks like to me. Though maybe Linux copied someone else itself.) So when you're looking at C:\Users\Chester you can click the "C:", "Users", or "Chester" to either of those three directories. It works but it's no better in my opinion than what was there before and it requires relearning something that's ingrained habit for tons of people. There's no reason to get rid of the Up button. They could have left both.

Back doesn't help you if you're in the habit of typing pathnames manually or using favorites to jump into folders. It only helps you if you have a habit of starting at a low level and browsing to a deeper level, every single time.

Good luck playing non-copywritten music on you're computer with Vista, apparently it fries your sound card so the sound sounds like :skull::skull::skull::skull: when you played bootlegged material. Same thing for movies.

Taurus I got plenty of un-copyrighted music on vista atm, the majority of it actually since I am missing a load of cds for various reasons. It works fine, only had problems with one album.

I'm currently donwloading Vista now...i just hope that i wont have to activate it on the net...because we all know that means my computer will be frozen. :(

I'll probably be using Windows XP until MS quits supporting it. Vista is just a little too power hungry when it comes to hardware in my opinion. I think I currently meet the minimum for Vista Premium or whatever it is. :p

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Originally Posted by - - - TAURUS - - -

Good luck playing non-copywritten music on you're computer with Vista, apparently it fries your sound card so the sound sounds like :skull::skull::skull::skull: when you played bootlegged material. Same thing for movies.

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Source on that.