Bad news for European PS3 fans

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02-25-2007, 02:50 AM
Roto13

Bad news for European PS3 fans

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2007/02...than_us_japan/

Quote:

Man, this is just getting ludicrous.

Not only are European PS3 buyers getting gouged in pricing terms - paying as much as 40% more for the console than our brethren overseas - but it turns out that European consoles are actually going to have less functionality, too.

How can this be? Well, in a bid to cut the cost of making the PS3, the hardware chips that enable PS2 backwards compatibility are being stripped out.

Stripped out.

The chips will be replaced with software emulation, with the result that backwards compatibility for European consoles will be, according to Sony, significantly less.

According to Reuters, "The backwards compatibility is not going to be as good as the U.S. and Japan models," a Sony spokesman said. "Rather than concentrate on PS2 backwards compatibility, in the future, company resources will be increasingly focused on developing new games and entertainment features exclusively for PS3."

Great. Most people probably wouldn't mind about not having backwards compatibility, but the fact that US and Japan get it and we don't is, frankly, galling. Let's face it - Sony's deal is getting worse by the day.
02-25-2007, 04:29 AM
Mirage

This is laughable.
02-25-2007, 05:00 AM
Tavrobel

Our next witness will be the honorable mister Dreddz, please.

LOL gg Sony in Europe. Too much in too little a time.
02-25-2007, 05:04 AM
Mirage

I'm just glad I have a modded PS2, it'll keep me entertained for years to come still.
02-25-2007, 05:12 AM
escobert

Where is Dreddz when you need him? Probably at teh SOny Europe office killing everyone :D
02-25-2007, 09:55 AM
Endless

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirage

I'm just glad I have a ~~modded~~ Swap-tool modified PS2, it'll keep me entertained for years to come still.
02-25-2007, 10:16 AM
Maxico

Considering the fact that Sony always said this would happen after the first batch of PS3s, their excellent track record with backwards compatability and the near perfect PS1 emulator for the PSP, I'm going to reserve judgement untill I see the backwards compatability list on the 23rd of march.
02-25-2007, 10:23 AM
Madame Adequate

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxico

their track record with backwards compatability,

Yes, their awesome track record where not a single person I've ever spoken to has ever had any problems playing PS1 games on their PS2.
02-25-2007, 10:37 AM
Maxico

Well besides MGS freezing at the end of the credits and expansion discs not working, I've not heard of any problems.

Feel free to enlighten me though.
02-25-2007, 12:01 PM
KentaRawr!

I would point out how this pretty much matches Dreddz in terms of not only social ~~recognition~~ title-pasting on EoFF, but also his current location, but everyone else did that already. :(

I find it odd that they are doing this specifically to PS3's in Europe. Perhaps they want to reduce the amount spent when making PS3's, but doing this in their highest bidder's lands would be quite catestrophic for Sony's rep. So, they probably wanted to do this where the Video Gaming craze is weakest out of the 3 main areas.
02-25-2007, 12:28 PM
Mirage

Despite the video game craze being weaker, they still plan on making a 40% bigger profit per console here. Some logic seems broken here. They expect us to pay more for less.
02-25-2007, 01:20 PM
Maxico

Profit?

Who said anything about a profit?

EDIT: Oh god, I'm having to actually restrain myself from being an armchair economist.

Old habits die hard. :(
02-25-2007, 01:28 PM
Dreddz

JKtrix showed me this a few days ago, Im not sure exactly how bad a situation this is. The NTSC consoles had problems, but they were fixed with firmware updates. Couldnt they do the same now ?

When I hear " stripped out ", I dont know whether they will be able fix the problem, I mean, they went out and said in public that the console will have problems, that must mean this is quite a big problem, as they didnt say anything when the NTSC consoles had compatibility issues.

Awwww well, I was never going to use the PS3 to play PS2 games, not until we are able to mod the PS3 to play imports and backups. Hopefully by then they would have fixed this problem.
02-25-2007, 02:28 PM
Slothy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreddz

When I hear " stripped out ", I dont know whether they will be able fix the problem, I mean, they went out and said in public that the console will have problems, that must mean this is quite a big problem, as they didnt say anything when the NTSC consoles had compatibility issues.

The NA and Japanese PS3's have PS2 hardware built into them to allow the backwards compatability with PS2 games. When they say it's been stripped out, I can only assume that means it's not there at all, which means that unless they develop a PS2 emulator down the road (or go the Microsoft route and develop an emulator for each game), there will be no fixing this.

On the plus side though; Europe essentially gets the best launch lineup I've ever seen, so it's not all bad.
02-25-2007, 02:59 PM
Roto13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxico

Well besides MGS freezing at the end of the credits and expansion discs not working, I've not heard of any problems.

Feel free to enlighten me though.

I my friends PS2 wasn't a fan of pre-rendered backgrounds and used to take forever to load, and sometimes it wouldn't load them at all.

For example.
02-25-2007, 03:18 PM
Rocket Edge

Sony certainly know how to keep their audience. :rolleyes2
02-25-2007, 05:48 PM
No.78

How annoying ¬_¬
02-25-2007, 05:50 PM
Madame Adequate

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxico

Well besides MGS freezing at the end of the credits and expansion discs not working, I've not heard of any problems.

Feel free to enlighten me though.

Oh, I'll enlighten you alright. I'll enlighten you by saying that I entirely misunderstood what you said up there. :(
02-25-2007, 06:02 PM
Nifleheim7

I have two PS2's for my PS and PS2 games,so i don't really care.
It kinda sucks though...
02-25-2007, 06:08 PM
Markus. D

this console will be dead very soon in Australia. just like the Wii is. in Australia.
02-25-2007, 06:09 PM
Shoeberto

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roto13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxico

Well besides MGS freezing at the end of the credits and expansion discs not working, I've not heard of any problems.

Feel free to enlighten me though.

I my friends PS2 wasn't a fan of pre-rendered backgrounds and used to take forever to load, and sometimes it wouldn't load them at all.

For example.

I played FFVIII on my friend's PS2 (first-gen, I think) and the textures got really badly corrupted in the middle of a battle.
02-25-2007, 06:14 PM
Maxico

Quote:

Originally Posted by I'm my own MILF

Oh, I'll enlighten you alright. I'll enlighten you by saying that I entirely misunderstood what you said up there. :(

I thought you were being sarcastic. :(

I'm going to stick with the "Wait untill they release a compatability list before you start moaning" standpoint.

Although due to my PS2 recently dying (Being a launch console, it served it's time), I am kind of relying on a PS3 to play Okami and FFXII.

Although if the software based PS1 emulator for the PSP is anything to go by, this shouldn't be too much of an issue. Perhaps even a framerate increase on games like Shadow of the Colossus due to the fact it no longer relys on PS2 hardware?

I can hope.
02-25-2007, 06:16 PM
Markus. D

I still want FFXIII among other PS3 games though ._.

deady deady dead.
02-25-2007, 06:27 PM
escobert

Good thing I only own a N64! I don't ever have to worry about any of this nonsense! :D
02-25-2007, 06:45 PM
Markus. D

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrowaBartonIV ^_^

Good thing I only own a N64! I don't ever have to worry about any of this nonsense! :D

:D!
02-25-2007, 07:11 PM
Elite Lord Sigma

...Yep, really great logic they're using here. Paying more for less of a system? Sony must be really stupid/arrogant/stoned/all of the above to believe they're going to get much money off of this from people other than rabid PS fanboys.
02-25-2007, 07:19 PM
Slothy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elite Lord Sigma

...Yep, really great logic they're using here. Paying more for less of a system? Sony must be really stupid/arrogant/stoned/all of the above to believe they're going to get much money off of this from people other than rabid PS fanboys.

It's entirely possible that it could cost them more to get the things into and distributed throughout the European Union, thus the price increase despite getting less system. It may be part of why they're trying to lower the costs on the production end, otherwise I can't see why they'd bother changing the system much at all. You can't just assume that all the costs besides the manufacturing costs would be the same when dealing with a vastly different economic market.
02-25-2007, 07:40 PM
Roto13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vivi22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elite Lord Sigma

...Yep, really great logic they're using here. Paying more for less of a system? Sony must be really stupid/arrogant/stoned/all of the above to believe they're going to get much money off of this from people other than rabid PS fanboys.

It's entirely possible that it could cost them more to get the things into and distributed throughout the European Union, thus the price increase despite getting less system. It may be part of why they're trying to lower the costs on the production end, otherwise I can't see why they'd bother changing the system much at all. You can't just assume that all the costs besides the manufacturing costs would be the same when dealing with a vastly different economic market.

Consumers don't care about any of that.
02-25-2007, 07:55 PM
Yukki-Chan

:mad2: awk I can't believe this my PS2 broke down just before christmas so I bought a slimline as a replacement relying on the backwards compatability of the PS3, because lets face It I don't expect the slimline I have to last more than 1 year with my gameplay habits.
On top of that is a royal pain in the butt to find a normal PS2 that isn't preowned how am I going to play all the classics when nostalgia kicks in?*sniff*:cry:
02-25-2007, 08:15 PM
McLovin'

So just order an American PS3 for less money.
02-25-2007, 08:36 PM
Renmiri

FFXII plays great on my American PS3

See the Bahamut scene (Mega Spoiler) to see it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Ds4y_xBnk

On the topic, Sony is being stupid! Definitely a bad PR, even if the compatibility is flawless.
02-25-2007, 08:53 PM
Psychotic

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxico

armchair economist.

It's a good book!

I wasn't going to get one right off the bat anyway. Sony will eventually realise what a silly idea this is, and put it right, and then I'll think about getting one.
02-25-2007, 09:29 PM
Madame Adequate

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxico

Quote:

Originally Posted by I'm my own MILF

Oh, I'll enlighten you alright. I'll enlighten you by saying that I entirely misunderstood what you said up there. :(

I thought you were being sarcastic. :(

I was, but because I thought you were saying they had a really bad track record on it. :(
02-25-2007, 10:19 PM
Roto13

Quote:

Originally Posted by I'm my own MILF

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxico

Quote:

Originally Posted by I'm my own MILF

Oh, I'll enlighten you alright. I'll enlighten you by saying that I entirely misunderstood what you said up there. :(

I thought you were being sarcastic. :(

I was, but because I thought you were saying they had a really bad track record on it. :(

*head explodes*
02-25-2007, 10:22 PM
Mirage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magus of Zeal

So just order an American PS3 for less money.

Then you can only play NTSC PS1 and PS2 games, making backward compatibility pretty useless to an European. Same when bluray movies get here.
02-25-2007, 11:44 PM
Dreddz

If people are able to mod the PS3 in time, Im sure to get that instead.
02-26-2007, 05:06 PM
McLovin'

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magus of Zeal

So just order an American PS3 for less money.

Then you can only play NTSC PS1 and PS2 games, making backward compatibility pretty useless to an European. Same when bluray movies get here.

Then also order the games from America. :D
02-26-2007, 06:33 PM
Maxico

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magus of Zeal

Then also order the games from America. :D

So instead of buying a console with gimped backwards compatability, buy a console with no backwards compatability for all the games you own?

That's flawless logic, right there.
02-27-2007, 07:19 PM
McLovin'

...

Buy American PS3.

Order American PS3 games.

Use a transformer.

I do this just fine.
02-27-2007, 07:34 PM
UltimaMasamune

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnslaughtX

...
It depends on what they do with it to be honest.

Right now, the PS3 in the US and Japan has the EE+GS from the slimline PS2. It, just as the PS2 slimline does, runs PS1 titles on software emulation already I believe. This hardware compatibility means that pretty much 98% of the titles release for the PS3 in the US and Japan run. Thats well over 10,000 titles. Now, however, they are removing that hardware in favor of software emulation for PS1 and PS2 titles. What this means is cheaper production costs for the PS3, and eventual price drops. It was also in the cards from day 01 if you believe Krazy Ken. Hardware BC as it is now was used since the software emulation wasn't complete yet. This can mean one of two things. The BC will be worse, or the BC will be amazingly better.

Software emulation means, more than likely, less titles will be supported. I would bet all the AAA games are going to make it, but don't expect something like say... Cabela's Big Game Hunt 4 to make the cut. Software emulation also opens up the possibilites of HD upscaling, AA, or other features. If Sony is serious about BC, come March we may be able to play Final Fantasy XII in 720p or even 1080p glory. I really hope this is the route they go, because BC IS important.

It shoudl also be noted that this change my indeed effect everyone else in the world. In the next firmware update Sony may disable eveyrone's PS2 hardware inside the PS3 and force software emulation on everybody. This would make updates easier on them, or they may offer a switch for people who have the hardware, to choose which they wish to use for their BC. But I see this hardware change happening for all future Japan or US models as well. Hopefully their emulator has been in the works for a while, and is ready to go, with these possible upgrades.

So until it release, we need to see the level of support, and we need to see what options we are given. If its bare bones, few title emulation, then I will be upset.
I do this just fine.

not to mention the fact that the PSP can run almost all PS1 games perfectly through software emulation
02-27-2007, 07:54 PM
Roto13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magus of Zeal

...

Buy American PS3.

Order American PS3 games.

Use a transformer.

I do this just fine.

Wow. Just... wow.

That would mean you'd have to pay extra for every game and the backwards compatibility would be even worse because none of your PAL games would work on it.
02-28-2007, 05:21 PM
UltimaMasamune

Also I don't consider it bad news, like OnslaughtX said this can improve the games like viewing them in full HD or improve load times
02-28-2007, 07:37 PM
McLovin'

Wow just wow.

The games are American not PAL.

American games work fine on an American PS....
02-28-2007, 07:42 PM
Slothy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magus of Zeal

Wow just wow.

The games are American not PAL.

American games work fine on an American PS....

Except you really don't get the point here. Yes imported American games will work just fine on an imported American PS3. All the games they bought over the years for the PSX and PS2 in the PAL format won't though. Therefore, buying an American PS3 does nothing to get around initial BC issues since they don't have North American PSX or PS2 games. Is that clear enough now?
02-28-2007, 07:47 PM
Bunny

Dear Europeans,

You should've won the war.

Sincerly,
America

P.S. Hahahahhahahaha

Is this a bad post? I'm sorry Europe, I feel for you.
02-28-2007, 07:57 PM
McLovin'

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vivi22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magus of Zeal

Wow just wow.

The games are American not PAL.

American games work fine on an American PS....

Except you really don't get the point here. Yes imported American games will work just fine on an imported American PS3. All the games they bought over the years for the PSX and PS2 in the PAL format won't though. Therefore, buying an American PS3 does nothing to get around initial BC issues since they don't have North American PSX or PS2 games. Is that clear enough now?

Sorry but I don't understand. You're saying PAL doesn't work on the American PS. Yeah thanks I knew that. That is why I said I can import the games from America and play them in Europe and use a transformer to plug it in.
02-28-2007, 08:18 PM
Slothy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magus of Zeal

Sorry but I don't understand. You're saying PAL doesn't work on the American PS. Yeah thanks I knew that. That is why I said I can import the games from America and play them in Europe and use a transformer to plug it in.

This thread is about the fact that the PS3 in Europe will have limited backwards compatability, at least at launch. For some reason, you suggested getting an American PS3, but this doesn't solve the backwards compatability issue since people in Europe who already own a lot of PAL PSX and PS2 games won't be able to play them at all on an American PS3 as opposed to at least being able to play some on a European PS3. And nobody should have to scower Ebay for American copies of games they already own. If you don't see now why your suggestion makes no sense with regards to the topic at hand then I give up. I can't make it any clearer.
02-28-2007, 08:47 PM
McLovin'

Oh alright. :greenie:
02-28-2007, 09:24 PM
Roto13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magus of Zeal

Oh alright. :greenie:

XD

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be mean, but that took FOREVER!
03-01-2007, 08:53 PM
Slicksword45

I just found this: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=23148

Just to shorten it:

Quote:

Sony's president of worldwide studios Phil Harrison has confirmed that the PlayStation 3 will support over 1000 PS2 titles when it's launched on March 23.

Quote:

With the PS2's emotion engine - the CPU - taken out of the PlayStation 3, Sony is relying on in-built emulation to play PlayStation 2 games on the console, and it's confident regular updates will mean a steady stream of classic titles for the machine.
"We're working to introduce a resource to the Web to detail which titles will have backwards compatibility. And as we make firmware upgrades, we will be able to add to that list," said Harrison

So there pulling an Xbox360 with the bc. And the list can be updated with updatse, so there will be BC, just limited.
03-01-2007, 09:31 PM
Slothy

1,000 titles already? Well, at least they're going to be doing a lot better out of the box then Microsoft did when they launched.
03-01-2007, 09:49 PM
Dreddz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vivi22

1,000 titles already? Well, at least they're going to be doing a lot better out of the box then Microsoft did when they launched.

Thats not the point, the point it that its less superior to its NA counterparts.
03-01-2007, 10:10 PM
Slothy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreddz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vivi22

1,000 titles already? Well, at least they're going to be doing a lot better out of the box then Microsoft did when they launched.

Thats not the point, the point it that its less superior to its NA counterparts.

And despite my post looking at the bright side, what part of what I said made it sound like only 1,000 titles was in any way a good thing overall. Most of the time, doing better than Microsoft at something is like beating a snail in the 100m dash.
03-01-2007, 10:17 PM
Yew-Yevon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vivi22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreddz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vivi22

1,000 titles already? Well, at least they're going to be doing a lot better out of the box then Microsoft did when they launched.

Thats not the point, the point it that its less superior to its NA counterparts.

And despite my post looking at the bright side, what part of what I said made it sound like only 1,000 titles was in any way a good thing overall. Most of the time, doing better than Microsoft at something is like beating a snail in the 100m dash.

LOL Dosn't say much about MS= (the snail)
03-01-2007, 10:25 PM
Fatal Impurity

I personally think this sucks ass...as for why the PSP had better emulation for the PS1 at launch than the PS3 does...well THAT is a mystery!
03-01-2007, 10:31 PM
Maxico

Quote:

I for one, think that 1000 is too many! BOYCOTT THE PS3!

Quote:

Originally Posted by omegaweapon2005

I personally think this sucks ass...as for why the PSP had better emulation for the PS1 at launch than the PS3 does...well THAT is a mystery!

Apparantly, PS1 emulation on the PS3 is near perfect. I think that at this point they have PS1 emulation down, but PS2 emulation is more difficult.

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