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I was so shocked the other day when I was reading the Bible and I noticed the passage about the Tower of Babel and that automatically got me thinking about FFIV. I never realized before how much effort and references to mythology that Final Fantasy has. They have things referring to the Bible, Arab mythology, Greek Mythology and a lot of tohers and they're just not in monster use.Are you impressed by it?
yeah i found that to be quite interesting. gilgamesh, enkidu, tiamat, fafnir, nekhbet....all these different creatures from different cultures.....they're all incorporated into FF. and there are plenty more
Considering most of the references have either absolutely nothing to do with their namesakes or present parallels that an 8 year old could have come up with, not really.
They're also known for smurfing up certain parts, like a certain horse.
The only thing that impresses me is that they actually know of some of the lesser known myths and stuff.
I know what you mean.
But a lot of the time in the english traslation. They spell it wrong.
For example Ifrit = efreet, also ifreet, afrit, afreet.
Yeah, I always thought it was kind of cool.
But they don't really delve into the mythology. They just name monsters and characters after mythological characters.
But I don't mind researching mythology. I'm happy that Final Fantasy gives me a lead on interesting mythological reading.
Also, it's good to learn the names of "monsters" in general. Final Fantasy is a fountain of knowledge and info on the point of monster types in and out of mythology.
Yeah they've always used mythology (though the NES ones had it all retranslated as Nintendo was anal on anything religious in games) but yeah Square smurfs up some of them and just uses the name for others. Like Bahamut, in Arab mythology he's more closer to being depicted as an aquatic being more then any form of a dragon let alone a flying one who's kind of the dragons/summons, but then again that's not so much Squares fault as they just stole Bahamut from D&D and added some niftyness to him.
Oh gee, there's tons!
Just a sample
Quote:
Originally Posted by my forum
I already knew about the Shiva and Tower of Babel things.
Quezacotl is another god of some sort (although its spelled "Quetzacoatl" I think) and Adrammalech is in the Bible somewhere. I'll have to check up on that.
wELL THEY CAN'T REALLY DO tHART iT wOOULFD mESs UP tHE sTORY!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Martyr
oooH GoSH DONE IRT aGAIN wHaT'S wRIING wIT ME????
Lol caps lock.
I was suitably impressed by the persian mythology present in ffx-2, Azi Dhaka and Angra Maalfdastu.
However, it might've been cooler if they made up names themselves:O or used the ones they did more appropriately. But whatev.
most of the summons are from mythology. a good amount of the enemies have similar names but different looks. even some come from folklore such as ogopogo in FFIV which is a supposed sea serpent in lake okanagan. not all are just summons and monsters though.
the aegis shield
the ragnarok
excalibur
gungir
and more that im not aware of or dont remember
Yeah there is alot, i'd like to see a compiled list of everything. Japan as a region has been a host to multiple religions, and you can see that with the amount of deities used and the type of architecture in the later games.
although it is true most of the time they use the name and nothing more, most obviously in the case of Shiva
rubah told me to come in here and give the basis for Sephiroth's name.
Anyway, the Sephiroth (the th being pronounced as a t) are the ten spheres or aspects of god one must negotiate according to Kabbalistic tradition in order to get to heaven. As shown in this picture:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...ifeLatin-1.jpg
Wow, that is so cool Jebus!
Yeah, I'm really big on occultism and esoteric stuff like that. Fascinating isn't it?
Yes, fascinating!
Leviathan was thought to be a sea monster in the middle of the antalantic in which oceans sunk :eek:
Later scientific evidence revealed that is reasons regarding terrain why ships sunk. Not Rydia summoning Leviathan destroying ship left and right :eek:
Actually no, that is due to alternate spellings. When translating a non-Romantic or non-Germanic (Latin Root langauges basically) langauge into a Romantic or Germanic, there is not one official spelling because other langauges are mostly based around sound, not putting together random words like PH for the "f" sound. In the end different spellings come out but they are pronounced similiar. This is a case when that happens. Generally there was unofficial spelling that dominates which confused many people (such as with Pokemon-Japaneese translations people though any spelling other than Manaphy [before the name was confirmed] was wrong to such a point that Serebii on SPPf had to create a sticky stating that there are alternate spellings for Manaphy, such as Manafi and Manafy).Quote:
Originally Posted by The black mage
damn....i always thought it was rydia doing that stuff
Try Yugudoracil (one of FFT's several spellings for Yggdrasil).Quote:
Originally Posted by The black mage
Frankly, I don't know why any of you are suprised; many games with sci-fi or fantasy games reference some or various religions. I must admit though, the obscurity of some of the references are rather impressive.
Yes, a lot of video games use mythological references but the FF series uses them very well and pwns all the others :love:
some of them are ammazing creatures, eg Bhemute (drat forgot the spelling) And ifrit.
But they should have chosen the more aproperet spelling to the prnocation eg puting and e spelling for ifrit.
also Zora give me credit for my quote
(I.E out my name on top of it)
Play the Megami Tensei series. Not only do they reference (and portray rather accurately) major religious and mythological figures like Odin and Indra, they also reference some not so well known beings like Rangda, an evil witch from Oceanic religions. These people eat, sleep, and breathe mythology and occultism.Quote:
Originally Posted by Renmiri
Anima also plays a rather large role in Gnosticism if I remember correctly. Isn't Sophia the Anima of God?
And Jebus. It's been awhile since I read up on Kabbhilism, but doesn't Sephiroth basically translate to "The Path to God"? I had an argument with someone about this the other day.
I'm generally surprised how well Squenix intertwines certain myths into their stories.
Impressed? no, not at all every RPG has many religions to mythology especially greek mythology.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashley Schovitz
Minotaur(greek mythology), Odin(germanic god I think), Leviathan(from europian legends) and many many more....
I haven't bothered to read the prior posts. Sorry.
I'd just like to point out that a lot of locations in FF7 are named after mythology, specifically Midgar (Midgard is the earth in norse mythology) and Nibelheim (I believe nibelheim was, in norse mythology, home of the frost giants.)
Now, I noticed something further about midgar. In Norse Mythology, the world consisted of several flat "levels" built around a giant tree in the center. Remind you of something? Midgar is built quite similarly, with the shinra building in the center, and the upper plates above the slums. It's very much like the world of norse mythology.
P.S.: Odin is the leader of the norse gods.
I've always found it interesting, and it can be fun tracking down the source material. :p
For example, Pandamonium in FFII is named after the capitol of Hell in Paradise Lost. And I'm pretty sure the SoR locations (Raquia, Machanon, Arruboth) are likewise borrowed from Christianity/Christian literature. (At the moment, though, I'm too lazy to look.) :riiight:
I love the mythology mixed up into everything. I'm real big on mythology, esp. greek and some norse. Every mythological reference made in the games, I can identify. I love it!
im a christian. not an fully active one but i do belive in god an stuff. but one thing stumped me aspeachially when i played VII for the first time how much they could be right. I have allways belived that when we die our bodys return to the planet and our souls return to a land of aternal happiness(aka heven). ff VII pertray that! im i nuts or sumthing or is their anyone else think like i do? or just to help me spell lol
Judaism, but close enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkLadyNyara
Anyway, I find mythological references to be a nice touch, even if half the time the reference seems to have nothing to do with it's origin.
Thanks. Like I said, I was feeling lazy that day, but I remembered them being connected with some part of the Bible. :riiight:Quote:
Originally Posted by RaseJudaism, but close enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkLadyNyara
Anyway, I find mythological references to be a nice touch, even if half the time the reference seems to have nothing to do with it's origin.
Although most of them are simply borrowed names with none of their original context carried over, it does remain an interest. It's even greater when the origins of a name actually fit the character, but I understand how one could not have Valefor's original content transfer to FFX, among countless others.
Yeah, the references were pretty nice. That Midgar thing was very interesting.
What better place to pull influence for fantasy games than mythology? :p
I love it.
ATTENTION! The Shiva of FINAL FANTASY is based off of a Celtic deity! That is all!
I'm a big fan of mythology and all that but I can only get the references that are spelled at least close to what I'm used to, so I don't see them all. I never would guess that "Yugudoracil" is supposed to be "Yggdrasil." But a moot point since I never played the game that's in.
Impressive? Well, I don't know. It's not like the FF series is the only series to do it. I'm not sure if I've played a single RPG that didn't rip off mythology for monster names and such. Most RPG cliches were ripped off from Tolkien, who ripped of Norse mythology.
why are there ships named ragnarok? isnt that like the norwegian word for appocalypse? ive seen loki, and odin. theyre norse. and quetzicotl (sp?) is an aztec? god. he ruled over their tribe. and i think he got drunk alot O.o i remember reading it in like 6th grade
What I find interesting, is that some Buddhist monks in Japan actually travel from temple to temple to pray - on a pilgrimage...
I don't know if anyone mentioned it.
But Kefka's Final Boss form, when all the teirs are put together it alludes to the Fall of Satan. It's also said that Kefka (the american translation) was thought up from Franz Kafka, an extreme nihilistic author back in the german nazi times. He also had a book titled "The Metamorphisis (sp)" which is also the title of the song that plays during the part where Kefka turns the world from Balance to Ruin. Also, the design of the entire last boss form is suppose to have been inspired by Michelangelo's artwork. I don't think that's been proven but the style of like the top three teirs support it by look alone.
Is Kefka the antichrist? Who knows but that's always an interesting topic. Seeing as in the bible the Antichrist brings the world into ruin and then after the world is ruined he is destroyed. Yay~
(LOL JESUS *second teir*)
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g8..._finalform.gif
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g8...astboss_us.gif
A lot of initial mythology is taken from the original Dungeons and Dragons game, upon which early RPGs were based. D&D lifted a lot of their stuff from other mythology, so the translation over is pretty easy to see.
Final Fantasy did, on its own, borrow a lot more mythology than that which was imported from the D&D settings. A lot of the summons and the legendary weapons, for example.
This is the first time I've heard this, and I'm surprised because it seems to be pretty accurate. Although, on a small note, Kafka has been interpreted as a Surrealist, Marxist, and/or Freudian author, not so much nihilist, and he died before the Nazis came to power. But yeah, well done on this thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avarice-ness
Shiva in Final Fantasy is decidedly confused.
The Shiva of Hinduism is male, therefore implying that the Shiva is actually the Celtic deity. However, if you look at the Shivas in FFVII-FFX, they all look Hindu culturally in their movements and apparel. Shiva looks like a Hindu Godess, which is strange but interesting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncZsI1nNN4I
If that's not Hindu then Ill eat my armour.
EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBYAqFJhXJo
Man, she has a frickin sari in FFX! (0:26)
Well, the design is extremely similar to the typical sari.
It's not just the places and names that have symbolic references too. The characters themselves seem to be symbolic. Take, for example, Yuna - she is willing to die to save the world from Sin. She is like the Jesus of FFX, even in nature she is slow to anger and kindhearted (except when she gets naughty with Seymour AND Tidus, tut tut). Then let's put it another way, the summoners are like the Jesuses of FFX, dying to free the world from Sin. I like the reference to Kefka as well! Damn those graphics aren't actually half bad for the SNES...ok let me stop before I go completely off topic :-p
Yeah, a lot of biblical undertones on FFX. And a ferocious slap to greedy religions that fool well intentioned people. One of the reasons I love it :love:
Weapons have mythical names too
They have Holy spell in almost all games.
In FFVIII: Odin, Ragnarok, and Hyperion are all Greek Mythology.
Haven't seen any Arab myths so far besides Roman/Greek Myths.
Odin and Ragnarok are Norse, not Greek. You're thinking of Zeus and Prometheus. (I don't think Prometheus is the end of the world, but it was some kind of disaster, as well as being the giant who gave fire to the humans).Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperion4444
In the French version of Final Fantasy 8, Quezalcoatl is called "Golgotha", the hill upon which Jesus was crucified, though "Golgoth" on its own in French means "Gigas". Also, one of my friends when playing the game inexplicably renamed "Quezacotl" to "Garuda". When I asked why he'd done that, he said that he didn't know, it just felt right. It kind of does actually; Garuda's one of the FF11 servers and they're all named after summons.
Still on the subject of French FF8, the Ragnarok is the "Hydre" (Hydra, a multi-headed dragon-serpent thing that the Greek hero Hercules defeated).
Shiva and Ifrit keep their original names, oddly enough. They're among the very few that do. However, Shiva's "Diamond Dust" is now called "Transcendentale" (Transcontinental) and "Hellfire" becomes "Divine Comédie", after Danté's Divine Comedy... ^____^
Siren is "Ondine"; "Onde" means a radio wave in French, so there's no mythical connection this time.
Sacred and Minotaur are known as "Tauros" and "Taurux" (forgot the order) and are collectively known as "Taurus", pretty straightforward.
Carbuncle is "Ahuri". That's the French word for the less glamorous meaning of "Carbuncle"; a zit or something similar on flesh, as opposed to a semi-precious stone similar to a ruby but darker.
Leviathan keeps its original name, as does Cerberus, but with the French spelling which I can't remember right now.
Pandemonia is "Zéphyr", a type of really strong wind or something.
Alexander is unchanged.
Doomtrain is "Helltrain". Ah well. At least his attack has a cool new name, "Death Express".
Bahamut's name is the same, but "Mega Flare" is now called "Ourobouros"! I think that's a dragon swallowing its own tail, a mythological representation of infinity.
Tonberry is "Tomberry", which is just an alternate interpretation of the Japanese spelling.
Cactuar is "Pampa". I have no idea what this means, and my French is no longer well-practiced enough for me to understand the fr.wikipedia.org's entry on it.
Eden is "Orbital". Right.
Griever becomes "Cronos", a Greek god that symbolises time. A bit (or rather, a lot) of a departure from "something that grieves" but given the whole Time Compression thing it kind of works.
Not mythical or anything, but Laguna's "Machine Gun" is named in the status menu as "Kalachnikov". Also, Quistis has a whip called "Totally S.M.", with that actual English name.
More as I remember them, or replay the French version; I'm thinking of doing a continuously updated thread in the FF8 forum about it, taking screenshots as I go because the translation differs so much.
Prometheus is just the titan who stole fire from Zeus and gave it to humans. That in itself is a significant event, although still not a disaster of any kind, really.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReloadPsi
Ragnarok is the place where they placed the titans, such as Hyperion, where they have no power over that land.
So, it does refer to Greek's former Titans.
Also, Prometheus didn't stole fire from Zeus himself, but he did forbit him.
I don't remember him as being a titan.
I though he was human.
He could be an Olympian.
The Titans were exiled to Tartarus. As has been said, Ragnarok is Norse; it has no role in Greek mythology.
@Hyperion444: You're wrong.
Ragnorak, put simply, is the end of the world in Norse mythology.
It was a disaster for prometheus. He had his liver eaten out by an eagle for ages, until Hercules saved him. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawaii RyűkishiPrometheus is just the titan who stole fire from Zeus and gave it to humans. That in itself is a significant event, although still not a disaster of any kind, really.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReloadPsi
Hmm...I might do a big post on this soon.
Interesting.
At the day of the Ragnarok, Thor will kill his serpent, but will die of it's poison.
The 'Midgar' Serpent.
Roman gained the solar system as they were given their names.
Encyclopedia Mythica: mythology, folklore, and religion.
Fenrir is a giant Wolf.
Relate to the Midgar snake.
Balthier is referred to as a Prodigal Son a few times in FFXII...
Bahamut is arab. There are more Arab references also. Ifrit, Fafnir iircQuote:
Originally Posted by Hyperion4444
Yeah, that's right... Bahamut's a giant fish carrying the world isn't he? Then D&D turned him into the Dragon King and the rest is self explanatory.Quote:
Originally Posted by Renmiri
That tends to be a generically used term, and FF12 doesn't appear to have the same religious undertones as some of its predecessors.Quote:
Originally Posted by silentenigma
Nothing of what you said ReloadPsi is true.
Starting with Helltrain... Machine Gun remains machine gun, where did you get the name...
Note: All ships of FFXII That were said were pronounced in french.
Edit: Funny, I've doubled checked to make sure I had it rigth, this was my original version. They didn't make the changes....
way to raise a thread from february and have two mods post in it xD
there was a lot of persian mythology (gilgamesh not included) in ffx-2 with such as azi dhaka and angra maintyu that I thought was pretty cool.
"Totally S. M." huh? We always knew quistis was kinky ;D
It's "ReloadPsi" by the way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperion4444
In case you didn't notice, I said that these were name changes in the French translation. What, are you saying that when I played the French version I was actually in some wacky coma or hallucinating or something?
FFXII had less of it, granted, but it still had the Grand Kiltias and the mythologically named fiends, ships and weapons.
No, you could be right.
It's just when I saw Helltrain, I knew Hell doesn't exist in french, it's enfer. ReloadPsi
So what kind of translation is that?
Especially since you said yourself that it was Japan - French translation and not English - French. ?
(In a resent FFVIII post)
Quistis Whip = Totally S. M. ?