...But wait, it has no storyline!

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02-28-2007, 02:38 AM
Radje

...But wait, it has no storyline!

(I assure you, this is FFXII related.)

In my mind there are three "generations" of Final Fantasy Player.

First of all you have Generation 1. The proud grandparents of the bunch who grew up with the first Final Fantasy games. The jumbled mix of pixels that relied so purely on epic storylines and amusing plays on words and the poor graphics.

Most recently, however, you have the Generation 3 people. These are the newer (and generally younger) players whose first games were FFXI / FFXII / FFX-2 or even...Kingdom Hearts.... These people are fans of the vast landscapes, the non-linear storylines or missions as the FF world has began making use of.

I like to believe I am part of the middle group. Generation 2; the balding, mid life crisised group. We grew up with FFVII on the good old playstation. We remember how we used to think the FMVs in 7 looked as convincing as real life. Gameplay was getting better and the funny square lumpy characters had a certain frantic charm to them which kept us going through the years to follow. FFVIII and FFIX then finally FFX immersed us completely. The storylines bringing us to tears.

Which brings me nicely to my point. Am i really so old fashioned as to miss it, or does FFXII have no thrilling storyline what-so-ever?

It had one or two mentions of a war that you never saw but for a brief bit of plot to get you used to the game. It had the occasional warning of Arcadian forces getting hold of/ making stones that could destroy the world (Materia anyone?) and then Ashe and co thwarted the attempt in what would be 5 minutes of plot if you don't count the massive trecks through the tedious, albeit gorgeous landscapes to get to the next temple...thing.

FFXII was a game that kept me hooked, it had a great run up to what could've been a storyline to Rival the tear inducing FFX, the battle system was interesting and useful, your clan and the huge locations were marvellous.

But then it just stopped, the storyline never advanced further than (SPOILER)Cid almost destroying...a tower. The locations had little to no history unlike that of the game's predecessors and the characters barely befriended one another. No love story.

I thought storyline was what Square was all about, was i wrong? Let me know your opinions.
02-28-2007, 02:54 AM
Bahamut2000X

Yeah the progression of story could of gone a bit better in the game, but I didn't think it as overly bad. It had it's moments and still had a nice ending I thought. But the game could of used some more cut scenes (as opposed to FFX which could of cut out about half their cut scenes and still have had too many) to have character development and story progression in.
02-28-2007, 03:22 AM
Renmiri

You are 100% correct but also 100% late on realizing it... There's gotta be at least 5 threads of we gen 2 debating the Gen 3 and Gen 1 over the lameness of XII story.

The most recent one has some good points
http://forums.eyesonff.com/showthread.php?t=102046
02-28-2007, 03:37 AM
Radje

You're right in the sense that it's just another thread ripping on FFXII's faults but i wanted to direct this one specifically towards the absence of storyline, as i'm worried it is becoming a continuing trait in FF games. The last story based game they made was X, in 2001?! That worries me.
02-28-2007, 03:50 AM
Moon Rabbits

Final Fantasy XII suffered from awful pacing similar to KH1+2. Everything was packed into the final hours, and I stopped playing altogether for about two weeks at one point.

However, that doesn't change the fact that the storyline is extremely original and excellent, and that FFXII is an almost perfect game.
02-28-2007, 03:53 AM
Bahamut2000X

Hey now FFXI has a great storyline, though with the way the game is structured it's a bit far and in between to do some of it. But there's still quite a few story lines to play through.
02-28-2007, 06:26 AM
Wolf Kanno

http://forums.eyesonff.com/showthread.php?t=102046

Read the whole thing...

Also, I feel there are four generations, the gap between FFI being released from FFIV was long enough to warrant them being there own generation. So you could easily divide the generations by the systems they are released in;)

By your system, I'm Generation 1(in my day, we didn't have fancy schmancy graphics and cutscenes! Hell, half the time you didn't even know what you were fighting, it all just looked like jumbled pixels. I once thought that FFI was a game about destroying evil "pixel demons"... and other generic old guy phrases...) by my system, I'm the SNES (or Super Famicom) generation (FFVI is better that FFVII, Rosa and Cecil are a better couple than Squall and Rinoa, as well as Yuna and Tidus. FFV has better gameplay than all of Generation 1, 3, and 4 combined...:D ) But I loved your social explanation of FF fans.
02-28-2007, 08:43 AM
Setzer Gabianni

Oh my..another "FFXII has no storyline" thread. The whole no gripping storyline :skull::skull::skull::skull: is based on people's opinions. The storyline was there, not everyone is expected to be like hooked to it. It's the same with every other game.

Oh, and there was love. Believe it or not, in unusual ways I think.
Most FF games have never had such a definite love story/theme anyway. X and VIII had the strongest. All the others..just bare traces. People have become so obsessed with these supposed pairings in each game nowadays that people firmly believe there is such a strong desire to have a love story smack bang right in your face every time.

Not all love has to be something like Cecil x Rosa - Larsa had a love for peace - he wanted no war, and cared greatly for cooperation with Ashe. Basch and Ashe themselves had a great love for freeing Dalmasca, freeing the people from the clutches of the empire. Even characters like Vossler had a great love..desire to restore Dalmasca back to what it used to be.

And there was love also..in the sense pretty much everyone else thinks of - Ashe still had strong feelings for Rasler, it was unfortunate however, that the poor bastard had to die.

*In a way, this whole thing makes me think about Valentines Day, where the majority of people, treat that day as just a day for lover's. It isn't. Valentines Day is supposed to be a day where you show your love, appreciation, for anybody that you hold close to your heart.*
02-28-2007, 06:08 PM
Angel_from_hell

Ohh come on...one more of those kind of threads. Final Fantasy XII has a story, a rather great story infact. I haven´t played through the whole game yet, but eventhough that I can say that the storyline is great. Sure I miss the feeling I got when I played FF8 but every game can´t be the same and every FF game can´t be compared with FF7 as many people always tries to.
02-28-2007, 06:15 PM
Zeromus_X

Just because the story was presented in a different manner than most of the other games in the series doesn't mean it doesn't have a story. A story does not necessarily have to be character-oriented.
02-28-2007, 06:24 PM
Hazzard

I haven't completed the game yet, but i find the story very quick at the moment. It could slow down a bit, and not get so paced up. I think square did put some time into this game's storyline, but it resembles old FF's, like FF1-FF4. I like that, and find it fun to be in a realistic world where these sort of stories happened in our reality-but in the past, but a few exceptions like the monsters. It's basic story is freeing the kingdom, i don't know what is so unusual about that! I find that simple and good, and unlike other FF's- it doesn't always have to have a deep meaning it could just get straight to the point. This gives me my instant goal, and doesn't leave me wondering what the story is about, so i would classify the story as direct and obvious.
Basically good!!!
03-01-2007, 09:57 PM
Renmiri

Well, the first 3-6 hours have a ton of story:
Hour 1: with the wedding at Rabanastre then (SPOILER)the groom dying, the kingdom falling by treason and everyone dying
Hour 5-6: (SPOILER)then Asche is alive, Basch is alive and the treason was made by his evil twin, The Empire's younger heir shows up and helps Ashe

Then pretty much we spend the time in a wild nethicite chase for 80 hours to find out that

(SPOILER)Cid and Vayne were not mere power hungry SOBs they were "nobly" trying to free men from freaky godlike beings, and they are themselves helped by a freaky god-like being

Add 20 hours more of nothing happening and finally you get to the last scenes and there's a bit more story.

Lame, paced like a 80 year old trying to dance hip hop. Weak story telling, badly paced for a story that isn't that original to start with.

I liked FFXII for the sidequests, the gameplay and the graphics. Not for the characters, music or story.
03-02-2007, 08:47 AM
Setzer Gabianni

Of course that's just you, I'm sure Kanno can come back and ownz j00 :bigsmile:
03-02-2007, 12:57 PM
eternalshiva

DEpends how you play ;o you could just go from CS to CS and see the whole story line develop and do nothing else but get to the next level to beat the next boss. You may think there's no story line because there's just -so much to do-.

This game is very similar to FFXI ;o you do the main mission when you feel like you've done enough crafting and NM hunts XD Maybe its because I'm 26 but I find the political intrigue of the story fascinating and really well put out. I like politics >_> and this story line has alot in it.
03-02-2007, 03:14 PM
Radje

That'll be why i could never get into this game then *chuckles*. I hate intricate politics.
03-02-2007, 03:18 PM
CStrife

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radje

(I assure you, this is FFXII related.)

In my mind there are three "generations" of Final Fantasy Player.

First of all you have Generation 1. The proud grandparents of the bunch who grew up with the first Final Fantasy games. The jumbled mix of pixels that relied so purely on epic storylines and amusing plays on words and the poor graphics.

Most recently, however, you have the Generation 3 people. These are the newer (and generally younger) players whose first games were FFXI / FFXII / FFX-2 or even...Kingdom Hearts.... These people are fans of the vast landscapes, the non-linear storylines or missions as the FF world has began making use of.

I like to believe I am part of the middle group. Generation 2; the balding, mid life crisised group. We grew up with FFVII on the good old playstation. We remember how we used to think the FMVs in 7 looked as convincing as real life. Gameplay was getting better and the funny square lumpy characters had a certain frantic charm to them which kept us going through the years to follow. FFVIII and FFIX then finally FFX immersed us completely. The storylines bringing us to tears.

Which brings me nicely to my point. Am i really so old fashioned as to miss it, or does FFXII have no thrilling storyline what-so-ever?

It had one or two mentions of a war that you never saw but for a brief bit of plot to get you used to the game. It had the occasional warning of Arcadian forces getting hold of/ making stones that could destroy the world (Materia anyone?) and then Ashe and co thwarted the attempt in what would be 5 minutes of plot if you don't count the massive trecks through the tedious, albeit gorgeous landscapes to get to the next temple...thing.

FFXII was a game that kept me hooked, it had a great run up to what could've been a storyline to Rival the tear inducing FFX, the battle system was interesting and useful, your clan and the huge locations were marvellous.

But then it just stopped, the storyline never advanced further than (SPOILER)Cid almost destroying...a tower. The locations had little to no history unlike that of the game's predecessors and the characters barely befriended one another. No love story.

I thought storyline was what Square was all about, was i wrong? Let me know your opinions.

In my opinion there will never be another story like the one in FF7 (i´m a part of generation2 too ;) )... i just think we have to be open-minded to the new FF´s, but never compare it to a game (FF7) like no other...
03-02-2007, 04:38 PM
Renmiri

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radje

That'll be why i could never get into this game then *chuckles*. I hate intricate politics.

Me too, and it's not that intricate either it's just "power, gimme power, buahahaha!" :p
03-02-2007, 05:08 PM
Hazzard

FF7 was good, but so far i think FF12 is better-maybe not story-wise but I'm probably just saying that i like it more because it has the updated advantages. If FF7 had all the attributes that FF12 has, that would be a true game to remember.
03-02-2007, 05:29 PM
Renmiri

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hazzard

If ~~FF7~~FF12 had all the ~~attributes~~ story line that FFX has, that would be a true game to remember.

Hence my grumpiness with the game. As someone said before, nothing pisses of a gamer more than wasted potential :p
03-02-2007, 11:49 PM
Wolf Kanno

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renmiri

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hazzard

If ~~FF7~~FF12 had all the ~~attributes~~ story line that FFX has, that would be a true game to remember.

Hence my grumpiness with the game. As someone said before, nothing pisses of a gamer more than wasted potential :p

Lord, if FFXII's story was written like FFX's I would be in the same boat as you are now Renmiri. I would like the gameplay but probably hate the cast and plot cause they had such wonderful potential and were ruined by bad writing and forced emotion, just like FFX...:p
03-03-2007, 12:54 AM
Renmiri

Yevon forgive the man, he knows not what he says ;)
03-03-2007, 07:59 AM
Wolf Kanno

St. Ajora, bless this woman, so she may see the glorious light of Ivalice...;)
03-03-2007, 08:37 AM
LunarWeaver

Further proof that Final Fantasy will be the cause of the next World War. Square is out of control.
03-03-2007, 02:34 PM
Radje

If Yevon was against 12..that explains where all the good summons went :P
03-03-2007, 02:52 PM
Renmiri

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

St. Ajora, bless this woman, so she may see the glorious light of Ivalice...;)

Tsk, tsk... Not the Grand Kiltias Anastasis or St Miriam ? :p
03-03-2007, 05:00 PM
Wolf Kanno

Know your roots... ;)

Besides the Grand Kiltias (SPOILER)didn't exactly make it through the whole game... Besides, St. Ajora (SPOILER)is connected to the Espers/ Lucavi

And what's with this summon nonsense? Good lord people, is your entire gaming experience so easily crushed if you don't get one Ifrit and Shiva? :p
03-03-2007, 07:24 PM
Radje

Damn right it is! :P Having a big ass beastie throwing chunks of flaming earth at your enemies makes a Final Fantasy lol.

Quote:

huh what?

(SPOILER)When Yu Yevon was destroyed, summons everywhere dissapated into the farplane. So if Yevon didn't like Final Fantasy 12, he couldn've...i dunno, snatched them. I've forgotten where i was going with that...
03-03-2007, 09:48 PM
Renmiri

Rats, pwned again :mad:
03-04-2007, 05:45 PM
chrisfffan

this game is 100 times better then X
03-05-2007, 08:24 AM
Raebus

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisfffan

this game is 100 times better then X

I hate to agree with you but your right, this game really is that good. I've only gotten 8 or 9 nine hours into it but the story so far seems pretty great and the characters are brilliant.
03-05-2007, 05:09 PM
Renmiri

Well, as Wolf Kano says, XII is the "anti-X" so no wonder the people who love XII's story bash X ;)

And vice-versa :D
03-05-2007, 06:10 PM
No.78

The story, I dunno why people are insulting it. I'm only up to the bit where you fight the Elder Wyrm, and the story so far seems pretty cool. You people are just picky >.>

VIERA FTW
03-22-2007, 08:22 PM
Icerose2300

I am a generation 1 player, I started playing Fianl Fantasy on SNES, starting with FFV, Now I just gotta to Giravegan, in FFXII, and so far the story has been ok, I mean it isn't FFVII or FFVIII, Which are my favs. But it is decent. I am just waiting for FFXIII, Which I have begged my non-ff-playing hubby to get me a PS3 So I can have it. His reply, We will see.
04-04-2007, 11:59 AM
six underground

i miss the old magic of adventuring and never wanting to put down the controller :)
04-04-2007, 12:07 PM
Hazzard

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renmiri

Well, as Wolf Kano says, XII is the "anti-X" so no wonder the people who love XII's story bash X ;)

And vice-versa :D

That's is very false and wrong.
If you like X then you should automatically like XII, because...(I don't know). But i like them both equally; mainly because of Auron and i was amazed by the battle system of X at the time. XII has Basch who is like an understudy of Auron. More like an Auron in training.
Ashe is kinda sexy in her ways. But anyway, i really like this story and how it's vaguely similar to IV's storyline and most of the stuff in XII is based off that game if i'm not correct.

I've been noticing it for a month now! :tongue:
04-05-2007, 05:40 AM
isidro

Ok the story sucks, it doesnt drags u in the game like 7,8, and 10 (i hate 9)...the gameplay is addictive and the graphics are very good, its still a good game, but ff has lost its fire
04-05-2007, 12:56 PM
Hazzard

Quote:

Originally Posted by isidro

Ok the story sucks, it doesnt drags u in the game like 7,8, and 10 (i hate 9)...the gameplay is addictive and the graphics are very good, its still a good game, but ff has lost its fire

I hate it when people make terrible comments like this, without any backup. You can't just say 'the story sucks' without no evidence. Only because there isn't as much cinematic time as the other FF's, doesn't mean the story is not worth following.
04-05-2007, 10:17 PM
isidro

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hazzard

Quote:

Originally Posted by isidro

Ok the story sucks, it doesnt drags u in the game like 7,8, and 10 (i hate 9)...the gameplay is addictive and the graphics are very good, its still a good game, but ff has lost its fire

I hate it when people make terrible comments like this, without any backup. You can't just say 'the story sucks' without no evidence. Only because there isn't as much cinematic time as the other FF's, doesn't mean the story is not worth following.

shut up ff12 story=star wars rip off
04-05-2007, 10:33 PM
Hazzard

Quote:

Originally Posted by isidro

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hazzard

Quote:

Originally Posted by isidro

Ok the story sucks, it doesnt drags u in the game like 7,8, and 10 (i hate 9)...the gameplay is addictive and the graphics are very good, its still a good game, but ff has lost its fire

I hate it when people make terrible comments like this, without any backup. You can't just say 'the story sucks' without no evidence. Only because there isn't as much cinematic time as the other FF's, doesn't mean the story is not worth following.

shut up ff12 story=star wars rip off

OK, first of all--don't ever say shut up to me.
Second of all, you gotta learn how to prove a point instead of saying that it's a 'Star wars' rip off, when you can't even support your claim.
04-05-2007, 10:57 PM
Azure Chrysanthemum

isidro, we do not permit rudeness to other members. Telling them to shut up and then making an unsupported claim to justify it is not something we tolerate here, don't do it again.

Hazzard, it is not necessary to respond to such posts. Simply warn the posts and move on.
04-06-2007, 06:13 AM
isidro

Quote:

Originally Posted by Behold the Void

isidro, we do not permit rudeness to other members. Telling them to shut up and then making an unsupported claim to justify it is not something we tolerate here, don't do it again.

Hazzard, it is not necessary to respond to such posts. Simply warn the posts and move on.

sorry mate
04-08-2007, 12:31 AM
Renmiri

I actually liked this about XII, the fact that is a homage to Star Wars. It gets pretty darn close at points but not enough to be a ripoff, just enough to be a thing done in honor of the series who put sci-fi - and fantasy - back in fashion.

Times were pretty dreary and boring for geekdom before Star Wars 1 brought back robots, spaceships and Princesses back to the movie theaters. I know, I'm almost that old (shut up Ren you will tell your secret age)!
04-08-2007, 07:09 AM
Mr Amazing

FFXII story is fine. My first FF was 10 and I still like this one. I've also played I and VII so you could say I'm experienced from all 'generations'. XII is innonative and new. So obviously some people aren't going to like it.

Shame on you for not being able to handle change.
04-08-2007, 09:48 AM
Dr. Acula

FF12 rules and that's all there is to it!:D And this is coming from a Generation 2 gamer!
PS: All FFs- from 6 onwards at least- pay homage to Star Wars. Biggs and Wedge are characters from the movies.
04-08-2007, 01:18 PM
Hazzard

When since was Biggs and Wedge in XII? I still haven't noticed them. A trend has been hung and rotted to mere coils of dust, and slowly evaporated into the nigh of the winds. (basically they stopped it).
04-08-2007, 04:28 PM
Radje

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Amazing

FFXII story is fine. My first FF was 10 and I still like this one. I've also played I and VII so you could say I'm experienced from all 'generations'. XII is innonative and new. So obviously some people aren't going to like it.

Shame on you for not being able to handle change.

That line made me laugh; it's so true. For every generation it jsut comes down to what you look for in a game and because I always look for an epic down-to-the-person storyline I see X as the peak of the series.

It isn't to say that I didn't like XII, I was hooked for a good 60 hours + but it just didn't feel Final Fantasy, much like X-2 swayed so much from the FF path that despite its good points it detracted far too much. (Chocobo music is NOT to be replaced altogether, whether you are a new composer or not.)
04-08-2007, 04:54 PM
Renmiri

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hazzard

When since was Biggs and Wedge in XII? I still haven't noticed them. A trend has been hung and rotted to mere coils of dust, and slowly evaporated into the nigh of the winds. (basically they stopped it).

Deweg and Gibbs are the name of the guards at Nalbina that block your access to Mosphoran Highwaste. :love:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radje

it jsut comes down to what you look for in a game and because I always look for an epic down-to-the-person storyline I see X as the peak of the series.

It isn't to say that I didn't like XII, I was hooked for a good 60 hours + but it just didn't feel Final Fantasy, much like X-2 swayed so much from the FF path that despite its good points it detracted far too much. (Chocobo music is NOT to be replaced altogether, whether you are a new composer or not.)

QFT!!!

I love XII gameplay, graphics, hunts, monsters (except chimeras looking like turkeys ewww!), the areas, the homage to Star Wars, etc... But story and music were not among the things I loved about it.
04-08-2007, 04:57 PM
Hazzard

Lol, S.E are very humorous aren't they...Gibbs and Deweg, that makes me laugh how they changed the letters up.
04-14-2007, 12:54 AM
Bolivar

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Amazing

FFXII story is fine. My first FF was 10 and I still like this one. I've also played I and VII so you could say I'm experienced from all 'generations'. XII is innonative and new. So obviously some people aren't going to like it.

Shame on you for not being able to handle change.

Definately not. I was expecting alot of change. I agree with the threadstarter's argument, i started with the PSX generation, and I've seen each game follow up the last with alot of innovation.

XII just seemed like a very generic game. As one of the people who made threads about this game's flaws, I really have to say the biggest flaw is a complete lack of storyline. They bombard you with a massive, almost short-film of a cutscene in the beginning, then immerse you into the world. the opening of the game is very good. But after that you find yourself playing for hours at a time of senseless dungeon wandering, only to get a short few minute cutscene that advances the plot. Unfortuantely, this leads to points where you ask yourself "just what exactly is going on again? Why are we here? what are we doing???."

I think the problem is that there is just so much to do, and they perhaps went a little overboard with some dungeons. As far as creating an immense new WORLD, they succeeded brilliantly, but there's not alot of RPG to go along with that.
04-14-2007, 08:03 AM
VorpalCyberWolf

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

http://forums.eyesonff.com/showthread.php?t=102046

Read the whole thing...

Also, I feel there are four generations, the gap between FFI being released from FFIV was long enough to warrant them being there own generation. So you could easily divide the generations by the systems they are released in;)

By your system, I'm Generation 1(in my day, we didn't have fancy schmancy graphics and cutscenes! Hell, half the time you didn't even know what you were fighting, it all just looked like jumbled pixels. I once thought that FFI was a game about destroying evil "pixel demons"... and other generic old guy phrases...) by my system, I'm the SNES (or Super Famicom) generation (FFVI is better that FFVII, Rosa and Cecil are a better couple than Squall and Rinoa, as well as Yuna and Tidus. FFV has better gameplay than all of Generation 1, 3, and 4 combined...:D ) But I loved your social explanation of FF fans.

What about the freakish "Generation X" which fits into none of those categories but can easily relate to all of the above? I for example come from the SNES gen, thrived in the PSX gen, idled, but still played in the PS2 gen and still love FFI...

To be honest I cling most to games from completely different gens, FFT, FFVI, FFXII and FFI being favorites of mine, though I still enjoy all the others as well... Im one of those that has never been able to stick with a favorite honestly because they are all different games for christ-sake. (Not to argue with you, but more or less to clarify the point that it would be silly to over-generalize the opinionated :) )

Quote:

Originally Posted by Setzer Gabianni

Oh my..another "FFXII has no storyline" thread. The whole no gripping storyline :skull::skull::skull::skull: is based on people's opinions. The storyline was there, not everyone is expected to be like hooked to it. It's the same with every other game.

Oh, and there was love. Believe it or not, in unusual ways I think.
Most FF games have never had such a definite love story/theme anyway. X and VIII had the strongest. All the others..just bare traces. People have become so obsessed with these supposed pairings in each game nowadays that people firmly believe there is such a strong desire to have a love story smack bang right in your face every time.

Not all love has to be something like Cecil x Rosa - Larsa had a love for peace - he wanted no war, and cared greatly for cooperation with Ashe. Basch and Ashe themselves had a great love for freeing Dalmasca, freeing the people from the clutches of the empire. Even characters like Vossler had a great love..desire to restore Dalmasca back to what it used to be.

And there was love also..in the sense pretty much everyone else thinks of - Ashe still had strong feelings for Rasler, it was unfortunate however, that the poor bastard had to die.

*In a way, this whole thing makes me think about Valentines Day, where the majority of people, treat that day as just a day for lover's. It isn't. Valentines Day is supposed to be a day where you show your love, appreciation, for anybody that you hold close to your heart.*

Amen.