Not Much of a Final Fantasy.....

I wanted to wait until I beat it until I started checkin the forums. so here it goes.

And yes, there will be spoilers.

Before I get into it, I do want to say that this is a pretty good game, good level & character design, nice backstories to things, interesting gameplay.

But it's not a Final Fantasy.

First off, I already knew when it was in production that it was going to have a little bit of the touch of Final Fantasy Tactics, since that game's production team replaced the usual higher-ups to allow them to work with the PS3 and work on XIII. Cool. I loved Tactics.

But they made it waaaay too much like Tactics. First of all, Ivalice!? I'm glad they keep bringing this world up again and again, but for a numbered entry of FF? The entire game takes place on this little section-region-semi-continent-whatever. In Final Fantasy you're supposed to save the world, not a mega-kingdom. The way you're buffs go onto your characters look just like it did in FFT. The way you get around is basically the same as in FFT, the "world map" (if you really want to call it that) looks and functions exactly like it did in FFT! If they were going to do that, they should've went all out rather than this mediocre hybrid of the two series'.

Even the music sounds like it came straight out of Tactics. I understand, they're using the same development team. But if you're going to have them make a game in the same vein as their previous ones, don't make it the next Final Fantasy. The only song that sounded like it belonged in the game was the intro, which has been around since the first one! Well I guess the next best one would be Gilgamesh's theme. Oh wait, they stole that from FFV. Well they did a good job with the "Kiss Me Goodbye" song. Oh wait, Nomura did that one.

Is it just me, or does the Archades/judge theme sound like a rip off of the Empire's theme in Star Wars? This brings me to my next point.

It completely makes no sense, but this game is too much like Star Wars. I remember when I first played the demo that came with Dragon Quest VIII, I thought the game looked like a mix between FFT and Star Wars. I didn't know I was going to be right.

An empire against a rebellion. Large starcruisers with smaller ships having their dog fights. They wanted to be so cool that they made not 1, not 2, but 5 DARTH VADERS!!! (judges). Ashe is princess Leia, Balthier is Han Solo, Fran is a sexy Chewbacca (she's the non-human co-pilot!!!!), The Strahl is the Milennium Falcon, Vaan is Luke Skywalker (poor kid that just wants to fly), Basch is Vaan's Obie Wan Kinobe (except he fought with his brother instead of his father) and Penelo is R2-D2. Anastis is Yoda, the Bahamut is the Death Star, you get the idea.

Oh, and by the way.... Where the F*** is the storyline? In the beginning they bombard you with a load of movies and Omdore talking, but soon after that you're plunged into the hours of senseless dungeon wandering. Without even getting a Game Over, it takes a long time to make it through the mazes that are the dungeons in this game. If you want to go mark-hunting, one of the biggest aspects of this game, you might as well kiss any hope of a decent story goodbye. Halfway through the game, I asked myself "Where am I? What am I doing? Why am I doing this? Where am I headed? Why am I here? What is the point of this game?"

Like I said, the ratio of time you spend mindlessly wandering to the amount of time you spend advancing a story is not good. What else? Well the mini-map is rediculous, although it was necessary for the labyrinthical dungeons.. With a mini-map, we might as well go back to 2D gaming. The music was not up to par, the License system was a poor re-hash of the Sphere Grid (by the time you get everything, everyone can do everything), none of the traditional summons are there, no crystals, no theme of life & death, no 1,000 year legend, no threat to the planet, the higher power controlling the dark warriors (vanaar) had no clear motives, Cid was just some douchebag, i'd hardly call the strahl an "airship", the list can go on and on.

Like I said, I did enjoy playing the game, but if it wasn't titled Final Fantasy, it probably wouldn't have appealed to me. Thanks alot, Square-Enix, for wasting 108 hours of my life. Thanks alot.

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Originally Posted by Jowy

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i2.../Funny-Ugh.png

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El o El, sexy Chewbacca.

P.S. I thought you said you liked the game!? *suspicious*

Oh come I'm dissapointed in the game too, but let's not just throw away ridiculous antics about that are wrong. Final Fantasy isn't about saving the world really. It's about change and experiencing tales and you could say that you are saving the world as your saving the planet from Vayne's tyranny. It has plenty of FF references thrown in, the work of the music isn't as great to be an FF game because nobuo didn't produce it. The story was weak though it pulled me in, in the begginning, but I lost it after I obtained the whole party. it lacked in touch with all the characters, cutscenes were scarse whiuh would be ideal for conversation between the characters to know them a lot better. That's the reason why i was so lost when I came to fight to Doctor Cid the first time. After going through 7 hours of combat through fields and dungeons, his presence and that whole dialogue seemed lost to me like I almost forgot what the whole game is about. That's the reason why the game's story isn't that good, it had a good concept,but it was presented very weakly.

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

... you might as well kiss any hope of a decent story goodbye. Halfway through the game, I asked myself "Where am I? What am I doing? Why am I doing this? Where am I headed? Why am I here? What is the point of this game?"

Like I said, I did enjoy playing the game, but if it wasn't titled Final Fantasy, it probably wouldn't have appealed to me. Thanks alot, Square-Enix, for wasting 108 hours of my life. Thanks alot.

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Agree up to a point. I wouldn't say I wasted my time, and I played a lot longer than you did. Gameplay is fun, if you forget the lack of story. :rolleyes2

It took me a while to adjust to the changes and to the fact it didn't live up to my hype. And there was no romance, no strong characters.... :eep: But I found myself playing a lot of it in spite of all my bitching :p

Yeah, the plot was weak and they "undid" a lot of stuff that was well done in previous FF games. But they also had gambits, quickening chains, rare game, hunts.. A lot of innovation. Some worked, some didn't. But in the balance the game was fun.

Bolivar, I agree with a lot of the things you said there and well done for at least backing up your reasons for such feelings.

About it being like Star Wars...well...lol, you're 100% right in the way you described how its similar (in fact, the same) but it could just be a coincidence ;) (Wedge and Biggs are in Star Wars! :D). Also, 2 hours into the game, I was thinking "So...Err...Am I playing Knights of The Old Republic 3??", it just seemed exactly the same as KOTOR to me.

However, after that initial reaction, saying its not a Final Fantasy, I dont really agree. Yes it went a lot different to others in the series, but a lot of the Final Fantasy stuff we know and love was kept in. As for the espers and various other things missing from it, I personally wish they werent, but I still think its a good game overall, and a fairly decent Final Fantasy.

You say you wanted to wait till you finished the game before commenting on it, and you also say that you enjoyed it, then why are you complaining that you spent 108 hours on it? If you liked it enough to play it for that long then I dont really understand why you are annoyed with SE for "wasting" that amount of time which is totally in your hands not theirs...And if you didnt like it (but you're merely saying so to not get flamed) then why didnt you just stop after 1 hour, rather than spending 100+ hours on a game that can be completed in 40-50? Or at least just complete it as soon as you could, then put it away and get on with your life.

(I personally spent 120 hours+ because I wanted to kill Yiazmat etc).

So overall, I agree with you in places, but I still think its Final Fantasy.

I give your post 7/10. ;)

I prefer to think of it replicating Final Fantasy II rather than star wars. The dark knights working for the Emperor etc.

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Originally Posted by Renmiri

But they also had gambits, quickening chains, rare game, hunts.. A lot of innovation.

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:mad: Fighting, fighting, fighting and fighting mixed with more dungeon crawling? Hooray for innovation.

Bolivar and Ashley, I agree with you wholeheartedly. I really want to get into the story, but by the time I reach the next cutscene I've forgotten why I'm meant to be there.

I've not played this game yet but I have seen it being played. To me, it looks like a single-player FFXI. I guess I could get into that, although I'd much rather play with an actual group.

ok this to me is like the best FF game and yes it is one it may be like star wars but to me its like one of the best

Okay, i started this thread after I beat it today, and I just started playing FFT Advanced, and I gotta say WOW, I should've played this game before 12.

Good to see some good discussion going on here.

Ashley, good post, but I think with all the money Square, video games, and executive producers of entertainment projects have today, why can't they make music as good or in the same style? Also, yes, every FF is about the force of the essence of Chaos disrupting the balance in the world, and a bunch of orphans going to take it down, and the actors it has controlled.

Renmiri, part of the reason I had to beat it regardless of my liking of it is that I give every FF a fair shot, start to finish, as i am a fan of the series and wouldn't have much clout to talk about the series in general if i didn't give each one a chance. I also played 100+ hours because it always makes the final dungeon more of a reward when you try to get everything beforehand, but I gave up on that after I couldn't beat King Behemoth. I already got to see my boy Gilgamesh, that was good enough for me, although I know X-Death is still out there.

xtrava, thanks for the props. overall, I did enjoy this game, but I'm not going to deny that it was very tedious, lacked story, and does not fit in with the other FF's.

rubah, I'm glad I wasn't the only one to notice that this game has alot of references to FF II, maybe moreso than any other FF. From Judge Ghis' airship being called the DREADNOUGHT Leviathan to the Empire's final weapon being surrounded by a tornado, I thought it did in some respects tie in with the other games, and II especially.

Peace to everyone else for contributing (Odd Eye - Shining Force II???), good to see we can have some good discussion in the forums.

To me, and many others it was a great FF. It featured a lot of things in it from past FF's, Espers, Espers named after previous FF bosses, all sorts of little things. People think differently on the story, and the characters, but to me, their backstories not being long winded, and the story not being incredibly long winded also, made this a very appealing game, as most FF's I've played, seemed to drag on after a while.

That's all I can add. Wolf Kanno, will be popping in shortly to give his word :3

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

The music was not up to par, the License system was a poor re-hash of the Sphere Grid (by the time you get everything, everyone can do everything), none of the traditional summons are there, no crystals, no theme of life & death, no 1,000 year legend, no threat to the planet, the higher power controlling the dark warriors (vanaar) had no clear motives, Cid was just some douchebag, i'd hardly call the strahl an "airship", the list can go on and on.

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*Yawn*
Complaining about crystals is so 1997.

And please people, can we stop pretending that every previous FF had a compelling storyline and exciting gameplay throughout? Or is everyone content to ignore FF1-5?

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Originally Posted by Endless.

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Originally Posted by Renmiri

But they also had gambits, quickening chains, rare game, hunts.. A lot of innovation.

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:mad: Fighting, fighting, fighting and fighting mixed with more dungeon crawling? Hooray for innovation.

Bolivar and Ashley, I agree with you wholeheartedly. I really want to get into the story, but by the time I reach the next cutscene I've forgotten why I'm meant to be there.

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The bulk of gameplay in every previous FF was composed of dungeon crawling and combat. Combat that IMO was significantly more tedious and repetitive than FF12 and was generally unavoidable to boot. They just covered this up with a greater cutscene/dungeon crawl ratio (post FF3 at least).
It would have been nice to have some kind of in-game story summary though, since in some parts I also found myself forgetting plot points.

[levian]Please don't double post, instead use the edit button if you have something to add to your first post. I merged your posts. ~Levian :mog:[/levian]

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

Halfway through the game, I asked myself "Where am I? What am I doing? Why am I doing this? Where am I headed? Why am I here? What is the point of this game?"

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Well, I guess that has more to do with you then with the storyline self. I'm just past the point where I visited that holy mountain and Larsa just left the party, but the story is absolutely for 100% clear to me. And then to realize I'm not even living in an English speaking nation, so I guess the storyline must be very easy to understand for anyone who lives in the US, England, Australia or whatever

Aw geez not this :skull::skull::skull::skull: again, LunarWeaver's post summed this up.

If you didn't like the story then why play through it? If you didn't enjoy the combat why play through it? Any of you? If you don't enjoy again after 50 hours of gameplay your not going to enjoy it at all, so sell the bloody thing and buy something else and stop putting a 1000 threads about how it sucks.
You can't say things about a narrative like "it's the same as Star Wars" because there are a million stories the same as Star Wars, there is a very limited amount of things you can actually do with a set of characters and while the series is famed for innovation on a storyline level you can't expect every game to have a storyline that is 100% original and 100% interesting to you. If you knew anything about storytelling and authoring a narrative you would know that if you look hard enough every story can be compared to a handful of basic ideas. The fact it has a few similarities is irrelevant.
I have not completed FFXII yet but I am enjoying it for what it is, if you can't understand this concept stop watching any films and playing any games because you are not going to enjoy the stuff they are turning out over the next few years.
I understand the game has flaws but I have never played a game that was perfect. The whole idea of this project, in my opinion, is implicating a few ideas from other game genres and other media forms altogether into the FF series to see how it works. If experimenting with a game formula is your idea of ruining a series or even just a game then why follow the series, you just want 30 games exactly the same? I want a different experience in every FF, that's why the series is good, it gives me something more than a sequel a year with a bunch of story tagged on.
Currently I am having no problems understanding the story, I have however, paid attention to cutscenes which usually helps. I agree it can be slightly disorientating at times but I expect this from an intense story, it's just part of it.

It was a okay game, but not a okay final fantasy, Its better then the X series (Though that not really being hard) but the Characters had no motivations, real history, why was Penalo even there, or Vaan, he had nothing to do with the Story. The battle system was better, and made things less tedious but the summons was so weak they was pointless and the licence grid was a okay idea but in practice it was a big re-hash. The game was pretty limited to one and one thing only. Dungeon Crawling. That got pretty boring the whole game consisted off "We must go to location A! for a magic stone!"
"Now we must go to location B for to be told about a magic sword!"
"We must go to location C! for a magic stone!"
"Now we must go to location D for to be told about a magic sword!"
But that links into the story, it was pretty hashed, I really expect more from Square and they should know it was below standards enough people noticed, and what little story there was all happened behind closed doors away from your characters anyway.

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Originally Posted by GF_Diablos

Aw geez not this :skull::skull::skull::skull: again, LunarWeaver's post summed this up.

If you didn't like the story then why play through it? If you didn't enjoy the combat why play through it? Any of you? If you don't enjoy again after 50 hours of gameplay your not going to enjoy it at all, so sell the bloody thing and buy something else and stop putting a 1000 threads about how it sucks.
You can't say things about a narrative like "it's the same as Star Wars" because there are a million stories the same as Star Wars, there is a very limited amount of things you can actually do with a set of characters and while the series is famed for innovation on a storyline level you can't expect every game to have a storyline that is 100% original and 100% interesting to you. If you knew anything about storytelling and authoring a narrative you would know that if you look hard enough every story can be compared to a handful of basic ideas. The fact it has a few similarities is irrelevant.
I have not completed FFXII yet but I am enjoying it for what it is, if you can't understand this concept stop watching any films and playing any games because you are not going to enjoy the stuff they are turning out over the next few years.
I understand the game has flaws but I have never played a game that was perfect. The whole idea of this project, in my opinion, is implicating a few ideas from other game genres and other media forms altogether into the FF series to see how it works. If experimenting with a game formula is your idea of ruining a series or even just a game then why follow the series, you just want 30 games exactly the same? I want a different experience in every FF, that's why the series is good, it gives me something more than a sequel a year with a bunch of story tagged on.
Currently I am having no problems understanding the story, I have however, paid attention to cutscenes which usually helps. I agree it can be slightly disorientating at times but I expect this from an intense story, it's just part of it.

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:confused: :confused: :confused:

Ummm...did you pay attention to anything I said??? We're not critiquing this game, it just doesn't hold up very well as a Final Fantasy, not just in similarities, but as a series that sets a high standard for RPG's.

If you had even taken the time to read the title you might not have written such an emotionally charged post.

Once again, this is my 1st (not 1000th) thread on how this doesn't stack up as an FF (not as a game or RPG in general). If you can't understand that, then please, save us your temper tantrum.

And, YES, I can compare a narrative to Star Wars considering 1) i'm entitled to my own opinion and 2) I gave 13 examples and could easily go on and on about how this game parallels that story. Which, by the way, also spawned a game series which the XII team completely jacked the battle system from.

Also, I explicitly stated in my post, that I, too enjoyed this game for what it is. Because I damn sure couldn't enjoy it as a Final Fantasy.

Yes, I, too, want a different experience every game, and I really feel Square has done a great job at that throughout the series, but there are certain elements which connect this series, and if you're going to ignore all of them, why even bother calling it a FF???

What the hell, why even post a thread saying it's not like other final fantasys? Whats the point? SE make each game different from the last for a reason. Its a final fantasy, get over it, things change, etc.

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Originally Posted by Arc_Master_14

ok this to me is like the best FF game and yes it is one it may be like star wars but to me its like one of the best

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Anyone can use a sword but it takes one of courage to know how to use it? But you just said anyone can use one. :confused:

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Originally Posted by No.78

What the hell, why even post a thread saying it's not like other final fantasys? Whats the point? SE make each game different from the last for a reason. Its a final fantasy, get over it, things change, etc.

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So i'm not allowed to give my analysis after beating the game? If you're so upset about that, why bother entering the thread?

I don't think you read anything anyone stated in this thread. yes, we all understand Square makes each one different, but this isn't even in the same vein as the rest of the series.

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

Ummm...did you pay attention to anything I said??? We're not critiquing this game, it just doesn't hold up very well as a Final Fantasy, not just in similarities, but as a series that sets a high standard for RPG's.

If you had even taken the time to read the title you might not have written such an emotionally charged post.

Once again, this is my 1st (not 1000th) thread on how this doesn't stack up as an FF (not as a game or RPG in general). If you can't understand that, then please, save us your temper tantrum.

And, YES, I can compare a narrative to Star Wars considering 1) i'm entitled to my own opinion and 2) I gave 13 examples and could easily go on and on about how this game parallels that story. Which, by the way, also spawned a game series which the XII team completely jacked the battle system from.

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Like I said in a previous post, whether you agree with Bolivar on the game in general or not is besides the point, Bolivar is 100% correct in the similarities to Star Wars (coincidental or not). And yes, as soon as I started playing the game I thought to myself "Hmm...KOTOR battle system me thinks.." although most of you will compare it to FFXI.

I still really like the game though and see it as a Final Fantasy.

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

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Originally Posted by No.78

What the hell, why even post a thread saying it's not like other final fantasys? Whats the point? SE make each game different from the last for a reason. Its a final fantasy, get over it, things change, etc.

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So i'm not allowed to give my analysis after beating the game? If you're so upset about that, why bother entering the thread?

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Because it annoys me when people do this kind of thing, what's the point exactly? It's not making anyone feel good.

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Originally Posted by No.78

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

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Originally Posted by No.78

What the hell, why even post a thread saying it's not like other final fantasys? Whats the point? SE make each game different from the last for a reason. Its a final fantasy, get over it, things change, etc.

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So i'm not allowed to give my analysis after beating the game? If you're so upset about that, why bother entering the thread?

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Because it annoys me when people do this kind of thing, what's the point exactly? It's not making anyone feel good.

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I understand where you're coming from, but you avoid the question that if this annoys you, why bother entering the thread?

The point was to give my analysis of the game after beating it. If you want to disagree, you can do so in a respectable manner, but don't try to simply end all conversation because it doesn't say exactly what you want it to.

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Originally Posted by No.78

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

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Originally Posted by No.78

What the hell, why even post a thread saying it's not like other final fantasys? Whats the point? SE make each game different from the last for a reason. Its a final fantasy, get over it, things change, etc.

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So i'm not allowed to give my analysis after beating the game? If you're so upset about that, why bother entering the thread?

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Because it annoys me when people do this kind of thing, what's the point exactly? It's not making anyone feel good.

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Hmm, you could just not read the posts in the thread if it annoys you? Or say your personal opinion on the matter and leave it as that. We all have different opinions I guess.

The thing I dont like is when people state things which are opinions and not facts, like "This games amazing, end of story" thats a ridiculous type of post. :P

I love it when people hold Final Fantasy up on this high-and-mighty platform like Square has done no wrong in the past and has somehow now fallen from glory.

I think it's a good game, but that's really irrelevant to my point: it's a Final Fantasy because they say it is, and they stuck a number on it. So's Crystal Chronices, so's XI. Just because a game doesn't happen to have a Cid or moogles or chocobos or a very specific type of plot, it's still an entry in the series, and that's all there is to it. If they decided to make FFXIV like Contra, it would still be a Final Fantasy game. The only exceptions, in my opinion, are due to weird localization or something like that, which doesn't really happen anymore: for example, Final Fantasy Adventure is a Seiken Densetsu game, not a FF game.

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Originally Posted by Wuggly Blight

the summons was so weak they was pointless and the licence grid was a okay idea but in practice it was a big re-hash. The game was pretty limited to one and one thing only. Dungeon Crawling. That got pretty boring the whole game consisted off "We must go to location A! for a magic stone!"
"Now we must go to location B for to be told about a magic sword!"
"We must go to location C! for a magic stone!"
"Now we must go to location D for to be told about a magic sword!"
But that links into the story, it was pretty hashed, I really expect more from Square and they should know it was below standards enough people noticed, and what little story there was all happened behind closed doors away from your characters anyway.

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Agreed 100% Those are surely XII weak points

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Originally Posted by GF_Diablos

If you didn't like the story then why play through it? If you didn't enjoy the combat why play through it?

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I did enjoy combat and game playing. I actually played almost 1,000 hours of it proof

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Originally Posted by GF_Diablos

You can't say things about a narrative like "it's the same as Star Wars" because there are a million stories the same as Star Wars, there is a very limited amount of things you can actually do with a set of characters

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It is a homage to Star Wars and I liked this about the game. But it isn't true that there are no other stories to do. Just look at the fiction series on your library

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Originally Posted by GF_Diablos

If you knew anything about storytelling and authoring a narrative you would know that if you look hard enough every story can be compared to a handful of basic ideas. The fact it has a few similarities is irrelevant.

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That would be an insult if it was not said by someone who thinks Star Wars is the only plot available in literature ;)

Seriously though, for people who actually have taken writing classes XII is bloody awful in terms of storytelling. It commits most of the "sins" weak writers commit when they don't know what the heck they are doing. But I digress...

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Originally Posted by GF_Diablos

The whole idea of this project, in my opinion, is implicating a few ideas from other game genres and other media forms altogether into the FF series to see how it works.

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Yes and it was very bold of SE to do this with an FF title. They achieved great things with some of the new ideas (gambits, world design, graphics, chaining quickenings,...) and fell flat on their face on others. This made the game very uneven and annoyed me to no end at start. I saw it as the "perfect game" ruined by it's weak story, weak music, etc..

Nowadays I see it "for what it is", a radically innovating game and as all first tries, a little rough around the edges. And now instead of annoyed I admire SE for taking the chance and risk to try to improve FF gaming.

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

Yes, I, too, want a different experience every game, and I really feel Square has done a great job at that throughout the series, but there are certain elements which connect this series, and if you're going to ignore all of them, why even bother calling it a FF???

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I think they tried to include FF elements. SE used old songs (Battle on the Bridge, Prelude, etc..), old names, even old plots like VI and II. Problem to me is that they ignored VII and X, their bestsellers, and the most remembered games.

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Originally Posted by No.78

..it annoys me when people do this kind of thing, what's the point exactly? It's not making anyone feel good.

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It made me feel food good. At first I thought I was going crazy for not liking an FF game storytelling. Now I know it's not just me.

And also, it lets us who liked the game in spite of it's flaws show Bolivar and others the good parts of the game.

And no Azar, it doesn't work this way. If SE starts putting the FF brand name in any piece of shiite game that they want, they won't have the brand for long. Or at least no one will buy it.

Because if I dont say anything then you're gonna keeep doing it!!!! GOD >.>

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Originally Posted by Renmiri

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Originally Posted by No.78

..it annoys me when people do this kind of thing, what's the point exactly? It's not making anyone feel good.

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It made me feel food. At first I thought I was going crazy for not liking an FF game storytelling. Now I know it's not just me.

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So you actually liked the storytelling in FF1-3 and FF5? Not to mention the endless camp and absurd plot twists in FF4 (aha! There's one more crystal!!! NOOOO KAIN, NOT ANOTHER BETRAYAL)?

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Originally Posted by Neo-Omega Mk XXV

So you actually liked the storytelling in FF1-3 and FF5? Not to mention the endless camp and absurd plot twists in FF4 (aha! There's one more crystal!!! NOOOO KAIN, NOT ANOTHER BETRAYAL)?

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No but they matched the games of their time. XII doesn't even match past games (VII, IX, X).

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Originally Posted by Wuggly Blight

but the summons was so weak they was pointless

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So I assume you have played FFVIII and moan about that as well then? The summons in that are incredibly weak and serve no real purpose other other than for you to go "YAYZORZ I lEarNt An AbilITy LOLZ!". They could have used a better system than that.

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Originally Posted by Renmiri

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Originally Posted by Neo-Omega Mk XXV

So you actually liked the storytelling in FF1-3 and FF5? Not to mention the endless camp and absurd plot twists in FF4 (aha! There's one more crystal!!! NOOOO KAIN, NOT ANOTHER BETRAYAL)?

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No but they matched the games of their time. XII doesn't even match past games (VII, IX, X).

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You can think that if you want to Renmiri. :choc2:

Its definetly up there with the newer games. and far exceeds the older ones (pre-VI)

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Originally Posted by Renmiri

It made me feel food.

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whaaaat? just playin, i know what you meant.

I love how everyone (this isn't a response to your post) is coming in here thinking i'm this revitalist who hates everything new about FF and XII, and that i'm trying to convince everyone that it's the worst game of all time!

Stop trying to devolve the conversation into something else.

For the 1000th time, I enjoyed this game. it was alright. However, I think the game serves as an example to question the path that Square is headed and where they're taking it. Rather than making a new Final Fantasy it feels more like they made a KOTOR rip-off, and threw in moogles, crystals, the prelude, espers, and tried to see if anyone would notice.

That or they made the world of Tactics Advanced into a big 3d world. Eh, who knows.

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

For the 1000th time, I enjoyed this game. it was alright. However, I think the game serves as an example to question the path that Square is headed and where they're taking it. Rather than making a new Final Fantasy it feels more like they made a KOTOR rip-off, and threw in moogles, crystals, the prelude, espers, and tried to see if anyone would notice.

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I think it's been stated that this Final Fantasy isn't a pre-cursor to where the series is head, but an installment where Squeenix dabbled in new themes and taking a risk. And maybe it's just that you're comparing FFXII to a game with a similair atmosphere and gameplay.

And considering that this is a Final Fantasy game, moogles, crystals, the prelude, espers, and all of the other FF references weren't put in to "see if anyone would notice", but to truly make it a Final Fantasy game.

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Originally Posted by Renmiri

No but they matched the games of their time. XII doesn't even match past games (VII, IX, X).

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Not really. FF3's plot is worse than FF2's, and FF5's is IMO worse than FF4's (4 generic heroes are destined to save the world from a generic villain generically sealed away for many years by generic elemental crystals...). I'll concede that 7 and 10 had overall better plots than 12 (at least the execution was better), but 9? Uggghh. Don't get me started on this mess. Its pacing is at least as bad as FF12's.

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Originally Posted by Neo-Omega Mk XXV

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Originally Posted by Renmiri

No but they matched the games of their time. XII doesn't even match past games (VII, IX, X).

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Not really. FF3's plot is worse than FF2's, and FF5's is IMO worse than FF4's (4 generic heroes are destined to save the world from a generic villain generically sealed away for many years by generic elemental crystals...). I'll concede that 7 and 10 had overall better plots than 12 (at least the execution was better), but 9? Uggghh. Don't get me started on this mess. Its pacing is at least as bad as FF12's.

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Aww naw explain why iX's is bad?

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Originally Posted by Azar

I love it when people hold Final Fantasy up on this high-and-mighty platform like Square has done no wrong in the past and has somehow now fallen from glory.

I think it's a good game, but that's really irrelevant to my point: it's a Final Fantasy because they say it is, and they stuck a number on it. So's Crystal Chronices, so's XI. Just because a game doesn't happen to have a Cid or moogles or chocobos or a very specific type of plot, it's still an entry in the series, and that's all there is to it. If they decided to make FFXIV like Contra, it would still be a Final Fantasy game. The only exceptions, in my opinion, are due to weird localization or something like that, which doesn't really happen anymore: for example, Final Fantasy Adventure is a Seiken Densetsu game, not a FF game.

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Thank god, someone understands this concept about FF and where it stands in RPGs...

Also this is not directed towards anyone but is just me ranting... Feel free to ignore:D

Since when has FF had some high standard for good storytelling? The series has always been about innovation but story wise the series as a whole is weak. FFVII and FFX are examples of good storytelling? Hell no. VII has horribly obvious plotholes (the fact that SE is using the FFVII expansions like Last Order to fix them, proves it.) and FFX is just...no it's just bad. It tries so hard to be deep and melacholic but it's horribly predicatable and it's cast has to be the worst to appear in the series yet... don't get me started on the "Tidus plot twist"... I just cannot bring myself to like this interactive movie that's a tech demo to show off what the PS2 can do...

The series has always been about pushing what an RPG can be. FFIV brought about the emphasis in story and character. FFVI brought about a more epic movie quality to it with more dramatic music and movie style story sequences. FFVII brought it into 3D and showed the power of emotional impact through the advent of cutscenes. FFVIII tried to rebuild the concept of RPG, though most feel it failed, I appreciate the effort. FFX introduced voice work to add more to cutscenes. FFXI brought the series into the MMO genre. FFXII has brough forth a new level of world design that is unprecedented in JRPGs up until this time. Hell some MMO's wish they had the level of detail in their worlds that FFXII has.

To me the only defining theme in the FF series is innovation nothing more. Not "good" music, not "good" storytelling, not the "good" characters, not the "good" gameplay, not the "good" world design, not even chocobos, moogles, and Uncle Cid. Why? Cause the quality in all of these fields vary throughout the series. Even when the game is bad it's still considered an FF (look at FFX-2 and Mystic Quest). It's only a standard if it stays consistant and it doesn't I'm afraid. But innovation is cosistant even after the original team has left, the series continues to innovate and change our way of seeing RPGs. If one considers the FF series to be the pinnacle of "good" in the RPG genre then you must not play many RPGs outside the series or you are obviously an obsessed fanboy (or fangirl).

I don't mind people sharing there opinions (I just did and I'm probably going to get flamed for it:D ) but coming up with your own warped version of what makes a game part of the series is just stupid.

I generally like Tim Burton movies, but I don't like Planet of the Apes, it didn't even feel like a Tim Burton movie to me. Does that mean I can say it's not a Tim Burton movie? No, cause it is. I just have to accept it and go watch Nightmare Before Christmas or Big Fish and just forget that it exists. (I was doing good too, until I thought up this stupid allegory:mad2: ).

I think I'm finished with my rant. Also, let's try not to devolve this into a "Which is the best in the series" thread. We all like and dislike different games in the series. That there should prove my point about the inconsistancies of the quality of the games; cause none of us can agree on what is a "good" FF game. :rolleyes2

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

Ummm...did you pay attention to anything I said??? We're not critiquing this game, it just doesn't hold up very well as a Final Fantasy, not just in similarities, but as a series that sets a high standard for RPG's.

If you had even taken the time to read the title you might not have written such an emotionally charged post.

Also, I explicitly stated in my post, that I, too enjoyed this game for what it is. Because I damn sure couldn't enjoy it as a Final Fantasy.

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I did read your points and the post title, but you misunderstood the point I was making, I am happy for people to voice their opinions but;
1) There are already a whole bunch of threads on this, add it to one of those.
2) You obviously attributing a different set of judgement techniques to Final Fantasy games in relation to other games, why? This is my main issue. You said they game was enjoyable but not a Final Fantasy but I just don't think it's right to attack it for being part of a successful series.
3) You also misunderstood the tone of my post, I don't write emotionally charged posts because forums are not a place to base strong opinion since it's so difficult to display your actual emotion, I was think more of a bored emotion than angry, I too think the game has flaws as I said but all games do. If developers didn't take chances on varying game play mechanics Final Fantasy would never be around in the first place.

I notice some other people have also posted on the matter of holding FF as a different rank of game somehow, I'm glad others agree. You either like a game or not, whether or not it has 'copied' something is irrelevant as I have already stated.
Star Wars copied lots of other things to become what it was. While I see the similarities you pointed out I also see similarities to Hamlet and some Marvel Universe Thor. Lucas himself has cited several references which if you compare them to FFXII as well also shine through.

As for the pedestal of Final Fantasy that some of you seem to hold I again agree with some of the above posts, some of the earlier stories were much worse substance wise and incredibley slow paced, Neo-Omega Mk XXV raises the issue correctly. I'm convinced sometime that not everyone who claims to have played some of the older games has, they are not perfect, just good. Since the UK is often screwed over with game releases I can't comment on the initial impact of the job system but I am sure there were a whole bunch of sceptics saying it spoilt the game and was too complex.

I am not attacking peoples opinions, I just want level judgement for the newer FF games because every time one comes out it's the "worst so far" and it's getting boring. As I said in my first post, if you don't enjoy the game stop playing it or don't buy it. Replay an older one you enjoy and maybe look to other series' for something new.

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

and Penelo is R2-D2.

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I went through the trouble of registering to this forum just so I could say:

:laugh:
:laugh:
:laugh:

Brilliant! That's far better insight than my explanation. I figured she was there just so Luke (Vaan) could have a chick too since the Star Wars metaphor dictates that Leia (Ashe) will end up with Han (Balthier). :p

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

But it's not a Final Fantasy.

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Just a few things:
Final Fantasy Adventure.
Final Fantasy Legend.
FINAL FANTASY TACTICS.

Just because it has Final Fantasy in the title (and yes, I know, it was numbered also) doesn't mean it can't be different. At first, I was uneasy about so many changes but the story was fairly fantastic, if plotpoints were few and fair between and (and I'm not saying it's the best FF ever) the GAMEPLAY. OH, THE GAMEPLAY.
Excuse me one moment;

FAN-F%&KING-TASTIC.

Best FF gameplay EVER.

Anyway, that's my two cents, and sorry for causing any anguish ;)

Final Fantasy The Spirits Within (Not a game but meh)...Thats NOTHING to do with Final Fantasy, and Square got away with using its title...So I guess they can do what they want ;)

Well I personally agree with a lot of what Wolf Kanno, Omega, and GF Diablos have said. The one really amusing thing I've noticed with FF fans is that they always complain about the latest game out and say it's the worst one and that SE is "losing their touch". Well they sure have been "losing that touch" for a long time now! I remember not too long ago when all people did was slam FFX, now suddenly, the game is fantastic and is a "masterpiece" when compared to FFXII. :eep: Omega is right when he points out that it's getting "old". I saw it happen when FFVIII came out. It was crap and FFVII was sooooo much better! Then FFVIII was so much better than FFIX when that came out. Then FFX was the worst and most crappy game.:rolleyes2

I like all the games personally for what they are. Seperate entities with certain familiar aspects to them that make them part of the FF universe. Depending what mood I'm in, I'll play a particular one. If I want the "old school" feeling of what made me fall in love with the franchise in the first place, I'll play FFIV. If I'm in the mood for a game that has a cast of characters I'm really fond of, I'll pop in FFVIII. If I want a game where I get to watch lots of beautiful cutscenes then it'll be FFX. Finally if I want a game that has very diverse geography to explore and fun sidequests, then I'll play FFXII. To me it's the varying differences from one FF game to the next that I think are one of the most enjoyable things. So I don't look on it in negative way, but rather a positive one. But then I suppose that's just my opinion.:cool:

There still is alot of hate over X (most gave up due to the flames), I loathe it myself with a passion of the sun.

First, let me say that while I will be quoting the first post these replies aren't directed at the poster, per se. This is for the general audience, if you will. He just happened to bring up things I've seen a lot of.

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Is it just me, or does the Archades/judge theme sound like a rip off of the Empire's theme in Star Wars? This brings me to my next point.

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Sure, it sounds similar. But so what? It's a badass theme.:cool:

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It completely makes no sense, but this game is too much like Star Wars. I remember when I first played the demo that came with Dragon Quest VIII, I thought the game looked like a mix between FFT and Star Wars. I didn't know I was going to be right.

An empire against a rebellion. Large starcruisers with smaller ships having their dog fights. They wanted to be so cool that they made not 1, not 2, but 5 DARTH VADERS!!! (judges). Ashe is princess Leia, Balthier is Han Solo, Fran is a sexy Chewbacca (she's the non-human co-pilot!!!!), The Strahl is the Milennium Falcon, Vaan is Luke Skywalker (poor kid that just wants to fly), Basch is Vaan's Obie Wan Kinobe (except he fought with his brother instead of his father) and Penelo is R2-D2. Anastis is Yoda, the Bahamut is the Death Star, you get the idea.

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Can you say "Reading too much into it"? Yes? Good. Star Wars was far from the first to do... well, anything it did. Evil Empire? Old. Rebellions? Old. Princesses? Old. Sauve not-quite-a-hero? Old. Hero related to villain? Old. Knowledgable master teaches hero what he knows? Old. Star Wars is a fairy tale given a Sci-fi locale. You can draw connections between any two things if you really want to. And in a lot of cases, it's not that hard. Of course that's not to say that a lot of the connections in XII weren't intentional. FF has *always* made conections with Star Wars, starting with Biggs and Wedge. FFVIII is CRAMMED with them.

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Oh, and by the way.... Where the F*** is the storyline? In the beginning they bombard you with a load of movies and Omdore talking, but soon after that you're plunged into the hours of senseless dungeon wandering. Without even getting a Game Over, it takes a long time to make it through the mazes that are the dungeons in this game. If you want to go mark-hunting, one of the biggest aspects of this game, you might as well kiss any hope of a decent story goodbye. Halfway through the game, I asked myself "Where am I? What am I doing? Why am I doing this? Where am I headed? Why am I here? What is the point of this game?"

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So now we're complaining about being able to do a lot of things? Gee, I can remember when everyone was complaining that FFX was too linear and didn't offer enough sidequests and non-storyline elements during the course of the game... and now XII is getting complaints for doing the opposite? Oi.

I've also seen a lot of complaints about the high gameplay over cutscene ratio in XII. I never thought I'd see people complain that there was too much gameplay and not enough story (in a videogame no less!) after all the complaints about FFX being an 'interactive movie'.

The only area that I think was made too big was the Sandsea. If they'd limited it to just the one area instead of two it would have been perfect sized. But that's it, just the one area that's too large. (The Pharos can seem big if you don't know what you're doing but it's not really that bad).

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Like I said, the ratio of time you spend mindlessly wandering to the amount of time you spend advancing a story is not good. What else? Well the mini-map is rediculous, although it was necessary for the labyrinthical dungeons.. With a mini-map, we might as well go back to 2D gaming. The music was not up to par, the License system was a poor re-hash of the Sphere Grid (by the time you get everything, everyone can do everything), none of the traditional summons are there, no crystals, no theme of life & death, no 1,000 year legend, no threat to the planet, the higher power controlling the dark warriors (vanaar) had no clear motives, Cid was just some douchebag, i'd hardly call the strahl an "airship", the list can go on and on.

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First of all, what's wrong with the mini-map?

Anyway, it's no 'mindlessly wandering' it's called "playing". I know, it's a novel concept, playing a game. But that's what you do. Yes, the cutscenes are spread out further in this one than in previous, but guess what? It's in response the fact that people were complaining about how often they occured in previous games. Make up your minds, folks.

The license board was fun and a good. The complaint of 'everyone's the same' is utter garbage. They are only what you make them. If they're all the same that's your fault, not the game's.

No world saving plot? What? Removing the tyranical rule of evil gods doesn't count as saving the world? Stoping Vayne conquering Rozaria and then moving on to the rest of the world isn't saving the world? Sure, there was no ancient legends or prophecies or world threats or over-the-top 'OMGWTF' problems, but that's the tone of the game. XII is based on a more realistic footing than previous games.

Venat had no clear motives? His motives were the same as Vayne's, really. Free humanity from the rule of the other Ocuria. The reasoning wasn't entirely given, but it's not particularly needed. Cid (both of them!) was cool. And the Strahl is an airship because they say so. It could be powered by baloons and it'd still be an airship. XP

Anyway, I also want to touch on something else. People say the story is weak, but that's not true. It's just presented differently than the previous FF games have been. VII through to X-2 (the ones I've played all the way through so know more about) are all the same when it comes down to story-telling. The characters are the story. They are the driving force behing the entire plot, they make the story.

In FFXII it's different. Instead of focusing on the characters and making the plot secondary it focused on the plot and made the characters secondary. They were developed in a different fashion from previous games and the story was presented in a different fashion. This, mixed with the increased ammounts of gameplay between cutscenes (I played for nearly 20 hours, if not more, between leaving for and reaching Archades) makes the story seem thinner, but there's as much or more in it than previous games.

http://www.gamehacked.com/images/final-fantasy-1.png > http://www.cavesofnarshe.com/ff6/scr...images/049.jpg > http://www.cavesofnarshe.com/ff7/scr...images/049.png > http://www.uffsite.net/ff10/images/g...g/ffxend05.jpg

OH :skull::skull::skull::skull: THEY CHANGE

I don't think there's more to add other than that Moon Rabbits, Xyex, GF_Diablos and Wolf Kanno summed it up for me.

Oh, and this is quite interesting. Search results of interviews from the game designers themselves.

I prefer to think of ff12 as having the basic markup of ff9(lots of references) except not sucking so hard!

Says Guy:

"NO LIKE OTHER FF. MAKE THIS GAME NOT FF.
NO NOBUO IN FF BUT END MAKE GAME NO FF.
NO RANDOM ENCOUNTERS I COMPLAINED FOR LONG TIME ABOUT MAKE NO FF.
I SPEAK BEAVER."


Doubleplus ungood game due to doubleplus unlike other FF.

Xyex... I love you:love:

Something's wrong when technology improves, and the games that comes with it, gets worse.

I played FFIX as a "warm up" before I played FFXII..now I've just had the first fight with Cid, and I havent bothered to play in 2 days.

That was never the case with FFIX. It was fun ALL the time, and the music...nobou at his best.
Not one bad tune in the entire game. Everything was excelent

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Originally Posted by Crizpy

Words and things

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Then go play IX.

There are plenty of game series which are the same as the older FF games, try Wild ARMs or Star Ocean, they have lots of old time stuff in.

I am so sick of all thease "Is this really a real Final Fantasy game?" Threads there are to many of them right now I get the feeling that people is trying to oveflow us with them.

Okay, I know everyone has the right to tell their opinion. But everyone that is disapointed in this game or just dislike it musn´t start their own thread with just their opinion. Why not stick to the other 50 already existing threads and write that kind of opinions in them.

Instead of telling my point of veiw in a new thread I am going to tell it here instead in an allready existing thread.

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But it's not a Final Fantasy.

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Great! someone that really knows what a real Final Fantasy game is. So I am exicted, come on tell me what is a real Final Fantasy game then if this isn´t a real FF game.

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It completely makes no sense, but this game is too much like Star Wars.

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Firstly, the team that was working with FF12 is big fan of Star Wars. Therfore they took some insperation there from.
But Star Wars wasn´t the first and only with that kind of story.

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Thanks alot, Square-Enix, for wasting 108 hours of my life. Thanks alot.

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You wasted 108 hours of your life on your own will. It wasn´t Square Enix fault that you played through the entire game eventhough there was parts you really didn´t like. You can only blame yourself for this.

And I want to end this post with:

Stop comparing all the Final Fantasy games with each other, the only FF game that actually had a follower was FF-X. All the other FF games are separate games that dosen´t have anything to do with each other so stop comparing all of them all the time and let them all be diffrent games with diffrent good and bad things.

They're like angry villagers, they fear change and want things to stay similar to the "old" games. So lets see! Old gameplay that makes you want to poke both your eyes out to avoid seeing it? Check. Now how about combining that with new age graphics? OH MY GOD, We've got the perfect final fantasy. Not.

Ps, change = Good. I would have stopped playing final fantasy if new innovations like the gambit system or the new more action/moving based battle system hadnt been introduced.

Oh and sure, it hasnt got some of the old summons but whats the dealio? I LIKE the new summons, just because they don't have that nostalgic feel that makes you want to jerk off doesent mean its a bad change. It adds something NEW. "I can't wait to play the next final fantasy game, I wonder what new summons it'll feature! and its a...ifrit, the same attack but done differently and in a cooler but longer way, OH MY GOD, I THINK I CAME."

*Rants on more*

Ps, before anyone says anything about the story, I know it was slightly non-existant but it was quite a mature story and I love it.

I sometimes wonder if people think the main qualification FF has to have to be considered as having a storyline is a romance. At least that's the feeling I've gotten from many posters that complain about XII's lack of story. Really, it's sweet and nice and stuff, but it's not the "be all and end all". :/

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Originally Posted by LunarWeaver

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Originally Posted by Jowy

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i2.../Funny-Ugh.png

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I'm glad the Kyon-kun facepalm is appreciated and used. 8-)

IMHO this is the best Final Fantasy I have played (FFX, FFX-2).. im 12!

If your so eager to say bad things about this game, then why post in the forum section then??

The same thing happened to Renmiri a week or 2 ago.


I posted a thread about if you like Balthier or not and then Renmiri goes and gets a pic of Balthier and a pic of Young Darth Vader and compared the 2. Thus making people question his good looks.

Its SE trying to "break the mould" from its past Final Fantasy games, dont worry FFXIII will probably be alot better

not all games are perfect but there are some that are very good to play...

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Originally Posted by Nefarious_Virtue

Its SE trying to "break the mould" from its past Final Fantasy games, dont worry FFXIII will probably be alot better

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Proofage? You don't know that until the game is released, and only then it's a matter of opinion.

Guess what, I played this not-so-Final-Fantasy game. I progressed up to right after the Henne Mines and it's been almost 3 months since I last inserted the CD into my PS2.

The reason? I got bored. Why? Same as your reasons above. You practically do the same things over and over again.

But I think I'll go back to it once I get bored with Resident Evil 4.

Yes, because you don't do the same thing over and over again in previous FF games.

:rolleyes2

I haven't finished yet (up to Pharos) and i'm so bored with this game. It sux teh ballz, doesn't even feel or play like a FF game. Boo-urns SE...boo-urns :mad2:

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Originally Posted by Omecle

Yes, because you don't do the same thing over and over again in previous FF games.

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What are you talking about. I've been to 3 'Shrines/Temples' just to get a 'Crystal/Magicite/Nethicite' then told i have to travel through some woods/forest to reach my next place (salika,feywood,golmore). The problem is that it's too repeatative. This game is horrible

You're joking, right? You can not honestly tell me that going through a whole bunch of dungeons is not like previous FF games...

Hey Omecle, he's right!

You arent doing the same thing over and over again in ff7, you arent chasing sephiroth constantly and leveling up constantly and their isnt a chance in hell of constantly getting better spells through materia by repetively fighting and fighting and fighting.

I'll bring on more sarcasm soon.

Ps, every final fantasy has SOME form of repetive-ness, your just being blinded by fanboyism if you don't think so.

I don't remember when i said previous FF games aren't repeatative? Maybe you can quote me and show me when i posted that impression ;) This game is too repeatative is what i said.

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Ps, every final fantasy has SOME form of repetive-ness, your just being blinded by fanboyism if you don't think so.

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P.S. I think you should read posts fully before making idiotic statements that make you look like a blinded fanboy

And FFX isn't? Doing the same thing over and over? Going to temples? Try telling me that's not too repetitive. This is a FF, and it plays like one - and this is a non biased answer.

<3

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Originally Posted by Aurons_Desciple

I don't remember when i said previous FF games aren't repeatative? Maybe you can quote me and show me when i posted that impression ;) This game is too repeatative is what i said.

P.S. I think you should read posts fully before making idiotic statements that make you look like a blinded fanboy

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Ok, we fully read posts before making our statements. Yliette said the game was not like a Final Fantasy because it was far too repetitive. I replied with my sarcastic remark and then you commented on it. So Raebus and myself had countered you comment that agreed with Yliette.

If that makes sense. Either way, you were agreeing that it was not a true Final Fantasy because it was far too repetitive -- yet I can honestly and full heartedly say that every other Final Fantasy has been just as, if not more, repetitive. Especially FF1.

Where ever you get a new Final Fantasy you inevitably get pretentious kid crying the words 'They don't make 'em like they used to'. Because as we all know FF V was a bundle of joy and anything passed VI was a disaster.

I have to repeat myself again here, I never said the previous FF games aren't repetitive because they are and everybody knows that. I didn't agree with what Yliette said, all i said that this was too repetitive for me to enjoy fully.

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doesn't even feel or play like a FF game.

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The music isn't very good (IMO) or memorable enough for me to like, there seems to be no character involvement or development (once you have your full party), level design is boring and dull, the script seems incomplete, there's no mini-games (as such) that are fun, hunts start to lose their appeal and the one thing that annoyed me about 10 has crossed over into 12 (that everybody ends up being able to do the same abilities.

I guess these don't help the fact that the game feels too repetitive. You may disagree with my opinion and your intitled to that :up:

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Originally Posted by Cuchulainn

Where ever you get a new Final Fantasy you inevitably get pretentious kid crying the words 'They don't make 'em like they used to'. Because as we all know FF V was a bundle of joy and anything passed VI was a disaster.

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I should really tally up all the posts that switch the topic into something else.

I am the last person to say "they don't make 'em like they use to". X is one of my favorites. I've been enjoying the hell outta III on DS, DoS, IV Advanced, I think Square has done a great job.

and Omecle, I would have to disagree, this is the most repetitive FF. Yes, in every FF you do the same thing - fight monsters, sometimes you even use the same commands. but you're always pressing different buttons in this game you're keeping your thumb on an analog stick and THATS your game.

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

I should really tally up all the posts that switch the topic into something else.

I am the last person to say "they don't make 'em like they use to". X is one of my favorites. I've been enjoying the hell outta III on DS, DoS, IV Advanced, I think Square has done a great job.

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Great. It's clear that you like playing the same thing over and over again. The series's battle system hardly evolved for 10 games. Why the sudden concern with repetition?

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Yes, in every FF you do the same thing - fight monsters, sometimes you even use the same commands. but you're always pressing different buttons in this game you're keeping your thumb on an analog stick and THATS your game.

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Not only is this not true, but I'd frankly rather do that (and I've been doing quite a lot of it now that I've beaten the game and am just doing side quests, and I'm overlevelled for many areas) than endlessly breaking the flow of the game with random battles, only to repeat the exact same attack patterns over and over. Seriously.

Look, it's simple. This game succeeds where so MANY past Final Fantasy games failed BUT failed where so many previous ones succeeded.

Let's get the negative outta the way. The Storyline & Characters. They pretty much sucked big fat hairey balls. They had potential but the game ended before you got seriously attached to anyone. The story....heh. Short, rushed & linear. It wasn't AWFUL, it just wasn't VI, VII or VIII (of which VIII had the worst gameplay, great story though). The rest had decent storys, maybe IV the best of the rest. So storyline & character development were where it fell off.

Let's look at the positives. TRUST ME, they out-weigh the negatives. The key word here is EVOLUTION. I can't believe some of you gamers want to hand back your opposible thumbs.

Firstly the compromise between fans wanting a world mapo back & the fact that increased graphics in-game did not fully allow that, nor make it sensible. They add fields & deserts to compromise & give you a map. Not perfect but more than u get at X.

Secondly, NO MORE RANDOM BATTLES. The most ANNOYING part of any effing FF. Listen, it's not that I don't want to fight Monmster A, B, C, D & E inbetween getting to the next save point. BUT I LOVE THE FACT IT IS NOW MY DECISION. Before it annoyed me, now I find myself running to the monsters. BUT when I want to get from point A to point B because I forgot something, I want to do it in a short time without a Random Encounter every 10 paces. RESULT.

Thirdly, Monsters make more sense. They don't SOMEHOW carry money around with them like some street ho. You take a trophy off them & sell it. Perfect compromise. They also not have slightly more intelligence. THEY RUN WHEN THEY ARE GETTING BOLLOXED...well they try to.

Forth....ly?
Graphics. Best yet. Not on your dumb fields buy where it matters. What they have done to create the eerie madness in mist-laden woods & dungeons is fantastic, surpassed themselves on what they admit to being a very dated machine. If you doubt it, stroll round Feywood, the atmosphere is amazing there.

Lastly,
The Battle System. I cannot be alone in thinking this is the best yet. It's Hastle free when you can't be bothered, you can turn auto-pilot off when you can. Gambits are an effing Godsend on those monotonous Level Up journeys you have to take, but loath.

Square evolved. It HAD to, it wasn't neccessarily LOSING fans, but it wasn't creating many new ones. Kids were being lost to Zelda & such. I think the next evolution would be losing the turn based battle system. It has many fans but many non-fans of Final Fantasy state THAT as being their reason to stay away.

I think this game, for the battle-system alone, is the botox injection this aged series needed.

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

and Omecle, I would have to disagree, this is the most repetitive FF. Yes, in every FF you do the same thing - fight monsters, sometimes you even use the same commands. but you're always pressing different buttons in this game you're keeping your thumb on an analog stick and THATS your game.

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Excuse me? I don't quite get what you mean by keeping your thumb on the analog stick? In other FF games, you keep your thumb on either the analog stick or the D-Pad, so what's the difference?

Anyways, the battle system is by far the most advanced. Buffs and Debuffs actually mean something, as they really don't in previous FF games. So you don't spend your whole time just going around auto-attacking (unless you decide you want to spend a full day just over leveling yourself at the start, which is just stupid).

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Originally Posted by Cuchulainn

Let's get the negative outta the way. The Storyline & Characters. They pretty much sucked big fat hairey balls. They had potential but the game ended before you got seriously attached to anyone. The story....heh. Short, rushed & linear. It wasn't AWFUL, it just wasn't VI, VII or VIII (of which VIII had the worst gameplay, great story though). The rest had decent storys, maybe IV the best of the rest. So storyline & character development were where it fell off.

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I'll agree that they could have done so much more with the storyline and characters. A lot of subtle things happen though, that they probably could have made more obvious. Though I'm glad they didn't focus a lot on a love story (only hints and subtleties between Balthier and Ashe and the like).

I will disagree with your claim that VIII had a great story. The first disc was absolutely amazing, but it really just failed after that -- so many plot holes and no character development seen (if there was, it was forced). And the love story was incredibly forced and lame.

I don't think the storyline and character development in XII was that bad, it really just took a different route in the telling of than compared to other FF games where they follow this one guy that changes and saves the whole world, while meeting friends/love along the way.

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Originally Posted by Cuchulainn

Look, it's simple. This game succeeds where so MANY past Final Fantasy games failed BUT failed where so many previous ones succeeded.

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Aye and it pi$$es me off to see they failed on stuff they knew how to do. It could have been the perfect FF, with good graphics AND good music, good gameplay AND good story.

Alas... SE isn't on the business of amusing Renmiri :p

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Originally Posted by Cuchulainn

Secondly, NO MORE RANDOM BATTLES. The most ANNOYING part of any effing FF. Listen, it's not that I don't want to fight Monmster A, B, C, D & E inbetween getting to the next save point. BUT I LOVE THE FACT IT IS NOW MY DECISION. Before it annoyed me, now I find myself running to the monsters. BUT when I want to get from point A to point B because I forgot something, I want to do it in a short time without a Random Encounter every 10 paces. RESULT.

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I couldn't have worded this better myself. This is *exactly* how I feel too.:cool:

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Originally Posted by Renmiri

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Originally Posted by Cuchulainn

Look, it's simple. This game succeeds where so MANY past Final Fantasy games failed BUT failed where so many previous ones succeeded.

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Aye and it pi$$es me off to see they failed on stuff they knew how to do. It could have been the perfect FF, with good graphics AND good music, good gameplay AND good story.

Alas... SE isn't on the business of amusing Renmiri :p

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Opinions differ, love, and many people thought the characters and storyline were great. The music wasn't :skull::skull::skull::skull:, it was different. Alright? Can you imagine any of the music from previous FF's kinda like fitting in XII? Orchestrated music was the way to go dude.

Cuchulainn, I <3 your positives, but I disagree with the negative. Tis just me of course (maybe other people too haha :D )

I don't think you can really say that FFXII 'isn't an FF game' simply because the formula for the series is so diverse. Compare FFIII to FFVIII and you'll barely find a similarity between them. Stylistically the series changes almost completely every three games or so.

That being said, I agree with almost every negative comment that people have made about the game so far. The plot, characters and gameplay all have some serious issues despite being based on very good ideas. The only exception was the music which, while there is nothing particularly memorable, was more appropriate to the game style than Nobuo's compositions would have been. Nobuo's scores demand too much of the player's attention for a game where battles are fought expediently and without any kind of transition.

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Originally Posted by Sophie Peithos

I don't think you can really say that FFXII 'isn't an FF game' simply because the formula for the series is so diverse. Compare FFIII to FFVIII and you'll barely find a similarity between them. Stylistically the series changes almost completely every three games or so.

That being said, I agree with almost every negative comment that people have made about the game so far. The plot, characters and gameplay all have some serious issues despite being based on very good ideas. The only exception was the music which, while there is nothing particularly memorable, was more appropriate to the game style than Nobuo's compositions would have been. Nobuo's scores demand too much of the player's attention for a game where battles are fought expediently and without any kind of transition.

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Uematsu's been on the decline since FF7 IMO. FF6 was his masterpiece and FF7 was his last really strong score. FF8 was a mixed bag, and after 9 & 10 I don't believe that the series's music is anything exceptional anymore unfortunately. FF12's music wasn't stellar, but by and large pretty decent, and no worse than what I heard in 10. At least it didn't have a wretched death metal song as the last boss's music.

I agree with Setzer on the storyline - I really enjoyed it, though I have problems with the presentation and I think that in some ways it doesn't work so well as a video game plot. But it probably has the least scenes out of the entire series that I'd be embarrassed to show my non-JRPG playing friends (which is most of them). I'm starting to think that the spread of the "gamplay is good, storyline and music are bad" viewpoint is becoming a herd phenomenon. I.e. it's true because "everyone knows it's true".

The ONLY thing, a very minor thing, which bugged me about the storyline, was that I wanted more Judge love ;w;