USRPG vs. JRPG

Well, I saw that a lot of people have opinions about it, and instead getting all off-topic in another thread, I've decided to make an actual thread about it.

I like them both, both have their pros and cons, but I prefer JRPGs since they're on the console, and since my PC hardware sucks so badly, I can't play much of USRPGs, which are usualy on the PC, but the old games are the best of all, so as long as they work I'm happy.

Discuss.

EDIT:
I forgot to add a poll, so if someone can add one it'll be great.

An RPG is an RPG.

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Originally Posted by KingdomHeartsKing

An RPG is an RPG.

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And good 90% of what you call USRPG are produced in EU anyway...
Now common, seriously, how on bloody earth can you call a game taking place in the classical medieval, or ancient, fantasy world (all of which oddly resemble the French Province) a USRPG?!

I like both styles really.

I don't really see the difference :)

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I don't really see the difference

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They do seem to have very distinct styles, much like the differences between 'comics' and 'manga'. I haven't played too many 'Western' RPGs, but the ones I have were top-of-the-line. The stuff that comes out of Bioware and Bethesda are quite different than what would come out of Square-Enix.

Each style has things about it I enjoy, some more than the other. I'll take 'em both.

As of late, I seem to have appreciated the Western flavour of RPGs far more than that of Japan.

But as whole, I enjoy RPGs in general.

USRPGs. Because I'm an American.

Let those lists talk:

Good PC RPGs

1. Arcanum – best RPG created for PC, it has great story, world, characters, interesting combat, abilities, pretty much everything about this game is great! It would be like FF on PC if would have more installments.
2. Fallout – game certainly is interesting one, story is great, characters/NPCs have personalities, perks system was innovative and I would have enjoyed that game if not that brown colour, got sick of it after playing this game couple of times. Since it’s my personal disliking of dark games, it has nothing to do with this game rating, it’s still a great game
3. Then only more or less good PC RPG series – Might and Magic, although after 8th those games got horrible, these get this place only for being series and having stories most of the part.
4. Planescape: Torment – another dark game with good story and interesting gameplay
5. Diablo – at the time this game was created it was good, I don’t like Diablo-2, it’s not a RPG me thinks.
6. Baldur's Gate – story of this game isn’t that great but characters are developed amazingly. Although they personalities tend to annoy me more than to help to play the game it’s still good game.
7. All other RPGs which are clones of each other, especially medieval ones.

Please notice, that almost all those game except Arcanum are “darkish”, that’s what bad about PC gaming in the first place.

Good JRPGs

1. Final Fantasy series - selfexplanatory
2. Suikoden series – 108 playable characters! + story ! RPGers paradise that is
3. Chrono games
4. Tales
5. Legends
6. Breath of fire series
7. Star ocean series
8. Lunar series
9. Vagrant story
10. Grandia series
11. Xenosaga
12. Dragon warrior series (not so good except 8), etc., etc.

Should I continue? All these series are original games with original roots, combat system, stories and characters.
How about 10 good PC RPG games can compare with 100 good JRPGs… You gotta be kidding me…

P.s. I didn’t add KH, Zelda series and Super Mario to that list because I don’t like those.

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Originally Posted by CloudySky

Please notice, that almost all those game except Arcanum are “darkish”, that’s what['s] bad refreshing about PC gaming in the first place.

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Right now I'm leaning more toward Western RPG's thanks to Oblivion and Diablo II. What can I say, I dig freedom and exploration. The most recent Japanese RPG I've played (not counting remakes obviously) is Tales of Symphonia, which was a good game but not up there with Oblivion in my opinion.

I still love me some Chrono Trigger though. :D

I prefer my JRPGS. I've never really been drawn in by of the USRPGs I've played.

Like, I didn't know USRPGs existed anyway so, they can't be very different. But, JRPGs are probably better. For obvious reasons :P

I can dig both, but overall I like JRPGs more. They have actual plots.

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Originally Posted by No.78

Like, I didn't know USRPGs existed anyway so, they can't be very different.

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They're pretty different. They're actually RPGs for one, as opposed to JRGs which are just adventure games with a leveling system.

But then, this is why I prefer JRPGs to actual RPGs: Role playing does nothing for me.

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Originally Posted by No.78

But, JRPGs are probably better. For obvious reasons :P

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The reasons being that you haven't played good Western RPGs :P

There are a lot of crap JRPGs, and there are a number of crap WRPGs. Just like there's a lot of crap anime and a lot of crap cartoons. We only see the Japanese crap that rises to the top in the West. A lot of people base their 'Japanese stuff is better' opinions on the stuff they see come out in English. Ignorance is bliss.

Can we call them WRPG, for west, and ERPG, east?

Seriously, US neither invented the RPGs nor do they produce the majority of them, so what the hell?

Now back to the topic. I think that Western RPGs actually put more focus on the character than on the story (exception, Diablo). While in the Japanese games your character is generally "pre-fabricated" and you just push him through the course of the game, the Western games tend to give you the impression that YOU are the character and that it's you who does all those funky things. (i.e. In J-RPGs you get a figure to move about the field.)

Frankly, as stated before, I like them both, as long as people don't class them down with completely pathetic names(:p). They're totally different and very refreshing when switched between.

I always preferred JRPG's over WRPG's. Honestly, all that seems common betwen them is the stat-building, and in WRPG's, that's really what it's all about. Stat building. >_> Like an MMORPG without the MMO part. And the dumbasses.

I started on the JRPGs way back, but moved away from them because they got stale. Most of them use the same tired conventions and story plots, and the ones like Vagrant Story which are different are few and far between. Give me a Planescape: Torment or Morrowind any day of the week.

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Originally Posted by LunarWeaver

I can dig both, but overall I like JRPGs more. They have actual plots.

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Poor assumption. I haven't played one WRPG with a weak plot. JRPGs are just flashier and more in-your-face about them than WRPGs.

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Originally Posted by Hsu

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Originally Posted by LunarWeaver

I can dig both, but overall I like JRPGs more. They have actual plots.

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Poor assumption. I haven't played one WRPG with a weak plot. JRPGs are just flashier and more in-your-face about them than WRPGs.

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Well, that is true. Like Diablo I and II do have really engaging plots, but it's all basically optional. I don't think that's bad, but I like it to be flashier and in my face. It's just a preference thing for me.

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Originally Posted by CloudySky

P.s. I didn’t add KH, Zelda series and Super Mario to that list because I don’t like those.

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As far as I am aware Zelda is not an RPG, it is an Action-Adventure game, same goes with Mario (with the exception of Mario RPG and Paper Mario). As for KH, I would say it is a pseudo-RPG, or at least Action-RPG or something like that, because you have a variety of characters that are playable, yet for the most part it is simply setting a bit of their AI configs. That aside KH is <3 for me.

I have not played any "Western" RPGs, so I cannot give any good conclusion.

I usually go for JRPG, not saying the US hasnt had any good RPG's, Im just not into them. Could never like Oblivian....

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Originally Posted by LunarWeaver

Like Diablo I and II do have really engaging plots...

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Are you serious? "Diablo" and "storyline" in one sentense?

I always thought they were a joke. I mean, Diablo I doesn't have a story at all, save the couple of books you find, and D2 isn't much better either. They had nice atmosphere, at least D1 did, but the stories really sounded like they were written during the afternoon break by an accountant. That is including the PSX edition of D1 with extended content.

It's true, the WRPG stories are very, very generic. You are the hero, you fight your way though the enemy lines, you become a champion or whatever.

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Originally Posted by KingdomHeartsKing

I don't really see the difference :)

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You're seriously going to tell me that Fallout is the same thing as Dragon Quest?

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Originally Posted by Grinenshire

Can we call them WRPG, for west, and ERPG, east?

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Nope.

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Seriously, US neither invented the RPGs nor do they produce the majority of them, so what the hell?

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Yeah, actually, the US did invent RPGs (Unless Gygax et al. were not of the University of Minnesota?) and the term is useful, even if not capable of encompassing the entire range of RPGs made.

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And good 90% of what you call USRPG are produced in EU anyway...
Now common, seriously, how on bloody earth can you call a game taking place in the classical medieval, or ancient, fantasy world (all of which oddly resemble the French Province) a USRPG?!

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Because it originated in the United States, was made popular in the United States, and the majority of things to do with the whole area - from Shadowrun to Elder Scrolls - are made and played in the United States. If we start labelling things based on their settings, then your earlier suggestion of WRPG and ERPG is completely daft as well.

So is a Western RPG where you play as cowboys

Baldur's Gate isn't US it's Canadian and I prefer JRPG's because they're typically better on story and most are on PC which I just don't play. It seems like it would be harder to play with a keyboard and a mouse than a controller.

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Originally Posted by I'm my own MILF

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Originally Posted by KingdomHeartsKing

I don't really see the difference :)

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You're seriously going to tell me that Fallout is the same thing as Dragon Quest?

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Originally Posted by Grinenshire

Can we call them WRPG, for west, and ERPG, east?

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Nope.

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Seriously, US neither invented the RPGs nor do they produce the majority of them, so what the hell?

---

Yeah, actually, the US did invent RPGs (Unless Gygax et al. were not of the University of Minnesota?) and the term is useful, even if not capable of encompassing the entire range of RPGs made.

Quote:

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And good 90% of what you call USRPG are produced in EU anyway...
Now common, seriously, how on bloody earth can you call a game taking place in the classical medieval, or ancient, fantasy world (all of which oddly resemble the French Province) a USRPG?!

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Because it originated in the United States, was made popular in the United States, and the majority of things to do with the whole area - from Shadowrun to Elder Scrolls - are made and played in the United States. If we start labelling things based on their settings, then your earlier suggestion of WRPG and ERPG is completely daft as well.

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Eh... no. That's not entirely correct, since you've limited it down a little too much.

RPG, i.e. Role-playing Games, existed quite a bit before Shadowrun and Elder Scrolls. The very first ones were the legendary pen-and-paper RPGs. Now, the fact that someone someday implemented the system on silicon doesn't mean that he invented the genre. The RPGs as a style of play come from UK, from where they've spread to France and US, later to Germany, later to the rest of the world. While US were one of the first to take up the style, they were not the pioneers.

Now if you consider RPG just as a Computer-based RPG, you also need to consider that video gaming itself started in US. Western Europe and the Soviets simply didn't have the resources available at that time to spread this popular form of entertainment. Now being given the credit of invention is alright, but that doesn't change anything in the current situation. There are two styles of RPGs. The traditional sword&magic games from Europe and the Japanese sword&magic games. The WRPG as we know it originates and still bears strong resemblance to its ancestors. So if we follow your logic we should call it UKRPG. On the other hand this would be completely pathetic since UK doesn't really produce many RPGs nowadays. Even more so, you need to consider the fact that the American and the European RPGs are very, very similar, when compared to JRPG. Thus, calling them USRPG would not only be historically and linguistically incorrect, but would also go against the current economical developments in the gaming market.

To be absolutely correct, it should be called the European RPG for two reasons: 1.) Like it or not, America was built upon a European culture. 2.) The RPGs generally resemble European Middle-Ages or the Mediterranean Antique. However, since the United States are not a part of Europe, yet do contribute a very significant bit to the RPG genre; the most appropriate definition would be "Western RPG".

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Originally Posted by Grinenshire

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Originally Posted by I'm my own MILF

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Originally Posted by KingdomHeartsKing

I don't really see the difference :)

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You're seriously going to tell me that Fallout is the same thing as Dragon Quest?

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Originally Posted by Grinenshire

Can we call them WRPG, for west, and ERPG, east?

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Nope.

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Seriously, US neither invented the RPGs nor do they produce the majority of them, so what the hell?

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Yeah, actually, the US did invent RPGs (Unless Gygax et al. were not of the University of Minnesota?) and the term is useful, even if not capable of encompassing the entire range of RPGs made.

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And good 90% of what you call USRPG are produced in EU anyway...
Now common, seriously, how on bloody earth can you call a game taking place in the classical medieval, or ancient, fantasy world (all of which oddly resemble the French Province) a USRPG?!

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Because it originated in the United States, was made popular in the United States, and the majority of things to do with the whole area - from Shadowrun to Elder Scrolls - are made and played in the United States. If we start labelling things based on their settings, then your earlier suggestion of WRPG and ERPG is completely daft as well.

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Eh... no. That's not entirely correct, since you've limited it down a little too much.

RPG, i.e. Role-playing Games, existed quite a bit before Shadowrun and Elder Scrolls. The very first ones were the legendary pen-and-paper RPGs. Now, the fact that someone someday implemented the system on silicon doesn't mean that he invented the genre. The RPGs as a style of play come from UK, from where they've spread to France and US, later to Germany, later to the rest of the world. While US were one of the first to take up the style, they were not the pioneers.

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Man, what? Mr. MILF said that. About the pen-and-paper thing anyway. Which is right. Gygax created Dungeons and Dragons which was the first commercially successful RPG. Role-playing may have come from Europe and whatnot, but we are not talking about that kind of medium. We are talking a strict gaming sort of thing.

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Originally Posted by Bunny

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Originally Posted by Grinenshire

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Originally Posted by I'm my own MILF

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Originally Posted by KingdomHeartsKing

I don't really see the difference :)

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You're seriously going to tell me that Fallout is the same thing as Dragon Quest?

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Originally Posted by Grinenshire

Can we call them WRPG, for west, and ERPG, east?

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Nope.

Quote:

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Seriously, US neither invented the RPGs nor do they produce the majority of them, so what the hell?

---

Yeah, actually, the US did invent RPGs (Unless Gygax et al. were not of the University of Minnesota?) and the term is useful, even if not capable of encompassing the entire range of RPGs made.

Quote:

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And good 90% of what you call USRPG are produced in EU anyway...
Now common, seriously, how on bloody earth can you call a game taking place in the classical medieval, or ancient, fantasy world (all of which oddly resemble the French Province) a USRPG?!

---

Because it originated in the United States, was made popular in the United States, and the majority of things to do with the whole area - from Shadowrun to Elder Scrolls - are made and played in the United States. If we start labelling things based on their settings, then your earlier suggestion of WRPG and ERPG is completely daft as well.

---

Eh... no. That's not entirely correct, since you've limited it down a little too much.

RPG, i.e. Role-playing Games, existed quite a bit before Shadowrun and Elder Scrolls. The very first ones were the legendary pen-and-paper RPGs. Now, the fact that someone someday implemented the system on silicon doesn't mean that he invented the genre. The RPGs as a style of play come from UK, from where they've spread to France and US, later to Germany, later to the rest of the world. While US were one of the first to take up the style, they were not the pioneers.

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Man, what? Mr. MILF said that. About the pen-and-paper thing anyway. Which is right. Gygax created Dungeons and Dragons which was the first commercially successful RPG. Role-playing may have come from Europe and whatnot, but we are not talking about that kind of medium. We are talking a strict gaming sort of thing.

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As said before D&D were not the first there to begin with and if you just consider the video game version of RPG, US is quite a bit behind when it comes to development of PC RPG games. Sorry, but that's just how it is.

Why on earth do you insist on calling it US-RPG anyway? US did not invent it, they do not lead the market in that regard, and even if they did would putting the label "Made in America" so crucial for their existance. Seriously, people, get a little more modest. There's a difference between being proud of your origin and nazilike fanatism. US wasn't even there when people still wore plated armor and ran at each other with hatchets. Once they dedicate a series of games that feature the events in the modern Northern America, feel free to call it USRPG all day long, but the medieval RPGs don't have a slightest link to US at all!

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Originally Posted by Old Manus

So is a Western RPG where you play as cowboys

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That's Wild Arms

Geez, why the heck are people getting so freaking worked up over what to call Western RPG's? Calling each other nazilike? Come on.

Anyway, yeah, I call them Western RPG's. If you really need to know why go ahead and read this.

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Originally Posted by Grinenshire

As said before D&D were not the first there to begin with and if you just consider the video game version of RPG, US is quite a bit behind when it comes to development of PC RPG games. Sorry, but that's just how it is.

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The PC games I'm not actually in a position to debate, but I am going to have to ask for some comment on what games, recognizable as RPGs in the modern sense, preceeded Blackmoor/D&D?

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Why on earth do you insist on calling it US-RPG anyway? US did not invent it, they do not lead the market in that regard, and even if they did would putting the label "Made in America" so crucial for their existance. Seriously, people, get a little more modest. There's a difference between being proud of your origin and nazilike fanatism. US wasn't even there when people still wore plated armor and ran at each other with hatchets. Once they dedicate a series of games that feature the events in the modern Northern America, feel free to call it USRPG all day long, but the medieval RPGs don't have a slightest link to US at all!

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Because, as I do believe I previously stated, but as apparently needs heavy emphasis, the location, setting, time period, mis en scene, etc. of a game have absolutely no bearing on this particular classification. It doesn't matter if it's mecha sci-fi set in 3247, or if it's swords-and-sorcery in some mythical land roughly equivalent to the 12th century, the clarification point between JRPG and ... USRPGs is in the gameplay. Although everyone seems to have gotten confused, because the actual distinction is generally taken to be between cRPGs (Consoles; "JRPGs") and CRPGS (Computers; "USRPGs").

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Originally Posted by Grinenshire

There's a difference between being proud of your origin and nazilike fanatism.

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I'm hereby invoking Godwin's.

Overall, I'd say I prefer JRPG's, as I like stories. I'd say it's harder to make a really good JRPG since you basically have to create every facet of story, characters, and gameplay, whereas in USRPG individual player experience is a key component, so most of the JRPGs are just meh. However, I do enjoy a good USRPG every now-and-then, as for some reason every year or two I get into a mood to play Baldur's Gate.

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Because, as I do believe I previously stated, but as apparently needs heavy emphasis, the location, setting, time period, mis en scene, etc. of a game have absolutely no bearing on this particular classification. It doesn't matter if it's mecha sci-fi set in 3247, or if it's swords-and-sorcery in some mythical land roughly equivalent to the 12th century, the clarification point between JRPG and ... USRPGs is in the gameplay. Although everyone seems to have gotten confused, because the actual distinction is generally taken to be between cRPGs (Consoles; "JRPGs") and CRPGS (Computers; "USRPGs").

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Alright. Let's play it your way. If the scene of the RPG doesn't matter, the place of origin of its predecessors doesn't matter and the production ratio, we'll call them USRPG. Quite a large number of assumptions really to go for this version and Mr. Occam definitely would hate us all for that, but alright, let's assume that in this case we'll call them USRPG.

In this case though, we'll have to call all the bikes German-bike, all the weaponry operating on gunpowder Chinese-whatsoever and other objects made of steel Indian-something-else. Catch my point?

You can't simply call the entire style US-Whatever, or UK-Whatever or Whatever-whatever UNLESS it is typical for the area. Non-Japanese RPGs, for this matter, are not typically US American, nor are they typically French, English, German, and so forth. Since RPGs in that style are popular and produced over the entire region, we need to cover the entire segment in the definition. Thus, calling them USRPG is, by simple means of logic, wrong.

IMO the most appropriate definition would European-RPGs, since they're developed in the countries that inherited or created the so called European culture, to which Japan doesn't belong. This would clearly separate the two styles, however our American friends would feel left out, thus we can call them Western RPGs as having inherited the culture of the Western world.

PS: On the matter of Godwin's Law. Stating that a person's statement falls under it has always been the smooth way out for people who watch CNN.

USRPGs focus more on Gameplay and Character custumization, while JRPG's tend to focus more on the story. Since I generally hate the Gameplay of USRPGs such as Morrowind, (Though I do enjoy Diablo II from Time to time) and I love Gameplay in JRPG's, (Especially Games Like WA4, FF XII, and Dark Cloud 2) its JRPG's all the way.

And yes, I say USRPGs simply to spite Grinenshire.

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Originally Posted by NeoCracker

And yes, I say USRPGs simply to spite Grinenshire.

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I couldn't care less.:p
Just always open for a good dispute.

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Originally Posted by KingdomHeartsKing

An RPG is an RPG.

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I share this sentiment. I admittedly have not play many Western RPGs much at all, but I am not picky about the kinds of RPGs I play.

I think judging games by what region they come from is about as irelivant as whether we're eating square-shaped waffles or circle shaped waffles.

The only types of RPGs that I feel are polar opposites are 'You're on your own' style RPGs, like Phantasy Star, Elder Scrolls, Dragon Quest, or Ultima, and 'Telling more of an epic story with only bare minimal of RPG elements to fool players into thinking they have actual involvment' such as Xenosaga, some of the Final Fantasys, Fable, Sudeki and probably a bunch of others.

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Originally Posted by Erdrick Holmes

I think judging games by what region they come from is about as irelivant as whether we're eating square-shaped waffles or circle shaped waffles.

The only types of RPGs that I feel are polar opposites are 'You're on your own' style RPGs, like Phantasy Star, Elder Scrolls, Dragon Quest, or Ultima, and 'Telling more of an epic story with only bare minimal of RPG elements to fool players into thinking they have actual involvment' such as Xenosaga, some of the Final Fantasys, Fable, Sudeki and probably a bunch of others.

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The difference isn't really the region they come from. The difference is that some RPG's, the game isn't necessarily following an exactly set story, in a totally set order, and much of the time is about stat building. It just so happens that many RPG's like this come from Western countries, so we call him WRPG's. JRPG's are almost always in an exact set order of events, such as most of the FF games, the Chrono Games, the Phantasy Star games, and so on.

Now, the on-your-own style you spoke of, that's called an old game.

Japanese RPG hands down. Story is whats important to me

For story and prettyness I'll take a JRPG, for cool shizzle in the game play department I'll take a western RPG.