What World? There's no Timeline, shut up.

Okay, so here are some things to discuss.

Does Final Fantasy have any kind of Timeline?

Airships have existed since II or III, chocobos have existed since III, I think, and moogles have existed since V (thinking again). Most monsters you meet in newer installments have already appeared in nearly every previous. The legend of the Crystals (or at least the power of crystals, which was still reflected in VII & IX) has been a running theme somewhat.

I know only of Kain and Cid Highwind, although a character named Cid usually plays an integral role in the story whereas Biggs and Wedge are usually granted a simple mention.

What is the world of Final Fantasy?

We know the name of the world in X is called Spira, several people including Yuna speak the name is direct reference to the planet (whereas in VII, it was just called "the planet." Lame).

There have been times when I've thought Final Fantasy actually encompasses tales from two or three different planets. I've personally assumed that the Fayth of X was somehow related to the Lifestream of VII. Both are the concentration of spiritual energy possessed of deceased people, animals, and even plantlife. Both grant unmeasurable power in the form of summoned creatures, though the Mako of VII being a crystallized form of the Lifestream further concentrates it's power which, I believe, is why it allows you to use magic. It'd be simple enough to say that stealing the Lifestream interrupts the flow of energy and therefore makes it impossible to cast spells (or even use heightened skills) unless you are holding a piece of materia.

What's your opinion?

Each Final Fantasy setting is independent to its predecessors. There is no link between them other than the makers wanting to get recognisable trademarks featured in the games.*

* There is an exception regarding FFX and FFVII due to some tosser who is also one of the story writers or something named Nojima who claimed to have made FFX a prequel to FFVII. This is debatable though.

EoFF has a great article about spiritual energy in FF. Like Chocobos and Biggs and Wedge, it seems to be in all of the games.

http://www.eyesonff.com/members/wiki...OfFinalFantasy

Again, just another repeated theme. Like chocobo's.

The final fantasies are, as a whole, not connected. There are references and common themes, but actually tying all of them together is a lost cause.

And btw, airships originate in I, chocobos in II, and moogles in III. :D

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Originally Posted by Mercen-X

I know only of Kain and Cid Highwind

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There was also Alexander Highwind Tycoon in FFV and Ricard Highwind in FFII (and they named his son Cain in DoS, which made me go "bah" because that started all kind of dumb rumours about how FFII was really the same world as FFIV).

The games are not suppose to be connected due to Sakeguchi wanting to start each game fresh. His challenge was always to make a better game without having to resort to what was used beforehand. This is also why I refuse to accept any of the main FF's being connected with each other.

Though VII and X are connected, it's interesting to note that it wasn't stated until after Sakaguchi left the company.

The only FF's that have convincing connections are FFVII-FFX and FFT-FFXII.

To a lesser extent there could be a case with FFT-FFVII. Not with (SPOILER)Cloud per se, since he arrives from outside Ivalice. Instead it is the (SPOILER)flower girl in Ivalice named Aeris (with the same character design no less). I take it to mean that Ivalice exists parallel to the FFVII Planet in different places, although not necessarily at different times.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

Though VII and X are connected, it's interesting to note that it wasn't stated until after Sakaguchi left the company.

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Riiiiiiiiiiiiight. So you're not going to believe the word of a person who worked on both the scripts of the game, simply because he left the company? That's just stupid logic.

Also, heya, if Squee made a game that anyone would recognize as being a summary of the events of all games Final Fantasy (of course, knowing Squee, it'd be done properly with new faces, new tech, and no character references except maybe a Sid), would you bother playing it?

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Originally Posted by jammi567

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

Though VII and X are connected, it's interesting to note that it wasn't stated until after Sakaguchi left the company.

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Riiiiiiiiiiiiight. So you're not going to believe the word of a person who worked on both the scripts of the game, simply because he left the company? That's just stupid logic.

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No, I believe that Sakeguchi has the right idea about "not looking back" and always starting fresh instead of building some asinine universe where everything is connected by reasoning that sounds like bad fan fiction.

I also don't respect Nojima as a writer and feel it's funny that he didn't bother mentioning they were connected until well after the creator left the series. I know the stories are connected but that doesn't mean I have to like it nor respect the wishes of the writer since he's a talentless hack. :mad:

I don't see the point of connecting them, and I feel this gesture is disrespectful to the ideals of the creator of the series.

And to be fair, I'm not too keen on the idea of FFXII and FFT being connected either though it looks like it was planned slightly better than this FFX=FFVII nonsense.

My guess is different planets, since Nojima & Kitase suggested that the technology for refining mako was brought over from Spira once that civilization got space technology.

For some reason, whenever this gets brought up, you always get people who hate the idea of it being connected. After beating all the numbered games, I wouldn't be surprised.

Ivalice seems to be its own set world, the ultimania guide (XII) actually has a timeline of the FFXII and FFT events.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

No, I believe that Sakeguchi has the right idea about "not looking back" and always starting fresh instead of building some asinine universe where everything is connected by reasoning that sounds like bad fan fiction.

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yeah, i totally believe this, but if the guy wants to vaguely connect the two words, then we have to take it as canon, as it was said by the guy who wrote the scripts for both the games, regardless of when he said that.

if we went along with what you said, that means that we should ignore what the excecutive people who worked on the game said about FFVII, 7 years after the game came out.

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I know the stories are connected but that doesn't mean I have to like it nor respect the wishes of the writer since he's a talentless hack. :mad:

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he's obviously isn't a 'talentless hack', as he managed to make both the connected games loved and respected by millions of people

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I don't see the point of connecting them, and I feel this gesture is disrespectful to the ideals of the creator of the series.

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what are/were the ideals of the creator of the series then?

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Originally Posted by jammi567

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

No, I believe that Sakeguchi has the right idea about "not looking back" and always starting fresh instead of building some asinine universe where everything is connected by reasoning that sounds like bad fan fiction.

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yeah, i totally believe this, but if the guy wants to vaguely connect the two words, then we have to take it as canon, as it was said by the guy who wrote the scripts for both the games, regardless of when he said that.

if we went along with what you said, that means that we should ignore what the excecutive people who worked on the game said about FFVII, 7 years after the game came out.

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If you're talking about the FFVII "Revival Project" then know that I feel it's a load of crap as well. If it has done anything, it has proven how bad the plot holes were in FFVII to begin with.

Also, Nojima was one of four writers (technically) for FFVII. Nojima and Kitase's script for FFVII was adapted from an original story by Nomura and Sakeguchi. He (and Kitase) made the declaration it was connected well after Sakeguchi left the company which leaves me to believe either Sakeguchi was against it, or it was never planned to begin with until well after FFX was written. I feel the connection theory is a joke and just another way for SE to milk the franchise.

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he's obviously isn't a 'talentless hack', as he managed to make both the connected games loved and respected by millions of people

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In my eyes he's a talentless hack since he has never written a good plot IMHO. VII has plotholes that kill the story, VIII is completely random and unfocused, X is just bad in every way possible, and FFX-2 is complete nonsense. With this track record it's a wonder why I have low expectations for XIII:rolleyes2

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what are/were the ideals of the creator of the series then?

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As I said above, Sakeguchi has stated in several interviews that he never connects the game as a personal challenge for himself. He wanted each game to be fresh and never borrow from the previous installments. Ever wonder why the series has always been innovative and experimental? He states it's more interesting to have to come up with completely different worlds and new characters than to build on an established world or set of characters. As a writer (ameteur at best) I respect this about how he goes about creating his worlds.

My main issue with the connection theory beside it being a slapped to the creator's ideal, is the fact that the game worlds are completely different from each other and now SE has to explain why things work differently on one world than in another. It's going to create so many more plotholes that SE will have to spend years changing the canon to fix all of them.

I also don't really see what connecting them is really going to accomplish in the long run except for a string of sequels/ prequels that will never live up to each of the original games and just piss off the rest of the fanbase who watches the series they love becoming an exploited joke in video games. I'm still trying to figure out when SE decided to become like Hollywood:rolleyes2

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

Also, Nojima was one of four writers (technically) for FFVII. Nojima and Kitase's script for FFVII was adapted from an original story by Nomura and Sakeguchi. He (and Kitase) made the declaration it was connected well after Sakeguchi left the company which leaves me to believe either Sakeguchi was against it, or it was never planned to begin with until well after FFX was written. I feel the connection theory is a joke and just another way for SE to milk the franchise.

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he's obviously isn't a 'talentless hack', as he managed to make both the connected games loved and respected by millions of people

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In my eyes he's a talentless hack since he has never written a good plot IMHO. VII has plotholes that kill the story, VIII is completely random and unfocused, X is just bad in every way possible, and FFX-2 is complete nonsense. With this track record it's a wonder why I have low expectations for XIII:rolleyes2




My main issue with the connection theory beside it being a slapped to the creator's ideal, is the fact that the game worlds are completely different from each other and now SE has to explain why things work differently on one world than in another. It's going to create so many more plotholes that SE will have to spend years changing the canon to fix all of them.

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You're being a bit too harsh on the script writers, because most people and I would agree that they done exceptionally well, on games like; VII, VIII and X. The stories were well written in depth, and I completely understood everything that was happening, I don't exactly know where any holes were left undone in those games, and everything was usually explained. Maybe not entirely on VII, and maybe they did go a bit way wall on that game, but the others, tell me why then?

Also, about this whole 'X--VII, they're related'. I solely agree with W.K on that, and think it's pathetic how they can tarnish the two game's by linking them to each other, they have no real evidence to base it upon, and I swear; if they use someone like that little kid in X-2 (worst game ever) then that's hardly a valid reason. His name may of been Shinra, but that doesn't send any signals to me that the two games are set in the same world. Should they start saying that Biggs and Wedge have been set in the same world? This act that they've done is stupid, and dim. They even stated after the first Final Fantasy release, that they set a goal to never relate any of the FF's, but include just a few trademark things.

What happen to that goal? Well it's out of the window, we might as well create a prequel to X. 'Everyone returns and they meet Cloud!'-- that crappy theory may even happen, you never know what Square are capable of...

BTW W.k, do you know who wrote the script for XII, cause they should of included more context, and trust me, that would of made it better to hear someone like Montblanc speak.

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Originally Posted by Hazzard

You're being a bit too harsh on the script writers, because most people and I would agree that they done exceptionally well, on games like; VII, VIII and X. The stories were well written in depth, and I completely understood everything that was happening, I don't exactly know where any holes were left undone in those games, and everything was usually explained. Maybe not entirely on VII, and maybe they did go a bit way wall on that game, but the others, tell me why then?

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PM me and we'll have this discussion cause I don't want to derail the thread. But the quick answer for the FFVII plot hole (one example at least) is play the part where Cloud remembers what really happened at Nibleheim then watch Last Order. You'll notice one very specific difference between the two with Last Order fixing a major issue people complain about in the plot...

Oddly enough I don't hate VIII and I've come to "terms" with VII but I feel both games major weaknesses come from bad writing.

Overall, I still stand by my feelings of Nojima and feel some of his FF stories arethe worst in the series. Don't get me started on his work in KH...

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What happen to that goal? Well it's out of the window, we might as well great a prequel to X. 'Everyone returns and they meet Cloud!'-- that crappy theory may even happen, you never know what Square are capable of...

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My feelings exactly;)

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BTW W.k, do you know who wrote the script for XII, cause they should of included more context, and trust me, that would of made it better to hear someone like Montblanc speak.

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The Tactics team worked on it, and though I agree FFXII's story is not their best I feel it's pretty good the way it is (my story complaints for XII are very different from most people) once again, PM me and we can discuss it in full. Though I agree that Montblanc should have had a voice...

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

Though VII and X are connected, it's interesting to note that it wasn't stated until after Sakaguchi left the company.

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When did Sakaguchi leave ?

I worked a lot with Ryu Kaze at Wikipedia, the guy who translated most of the interviews (Pmog at GAMEFAQ and some other guys did X2's interview also).

Ryu mentioned that the FFVII Ultimania had a reference to it, and that 2 or 3 game scenes had a reference to it too. I hope I can find the link or e-mail!

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Originally Posted by Renmiri

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

Though VII and X are connected, it's interesting to note that it wasn't stated until after Sakaguchi left the company.

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When did Sakaguchi leave ?

I worked a lot with Ryu Kaze at Wikipedia, the guy who translated most of the interviews (Pmog at GAMEFAQ and some other guys did X2's interview also).

Ryu mentioned that the FFVII Ultimania had a reference to it, and that 2 or 3 game scenes had a reference to it too. I hope I can find the link or e-mail!

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When was the Ultimania guide for VII written? As for the game sequences, if you're talking about the ones mentioned in the FFX-2:International/ Last Mission, I've already read them.

The last game Sakeguchi actually worked on for Square, was IX, he's an executive producer on X and KH1 but due to the failure of Spirits Within that nearly bankrupted the company; there was evidence he was "promoted" to the "window seat" (I think I got this term correctly, anyone know for sure?). Which is a position given to people in corporate Japan after they screw up.

It basically is a position that strips him of any real control or merit within the company, they are usually put in charge of "pet projects" the company creates to keep them occupied. It exist because it's it looks bad to fire prominent figures within the company. The creator of Metroid and the Gameboy faced a similiar fate after the disasterous "Virtual Gameboy" was released to failure. Notice that Sakeguchi has never really done an interview after FFIX? Most interviews of X generally feature Nojima, Kitase, and Nomura. It looks like he left in 2003, shortly after X-2 was released but wasn't this connection theory nonsense started with FFX-2: Last Mission/International position which was released later?

I haven't read much of the Ultimania guides, but I notice the few I have read never seem to feature him, (I've read parts of VII and X-2, mostly dealing with the connection theory.) Regardless, I can't see the man changing his mind on what he said about the creative challenges he created for himself after so many years. Ultimately, I don't believe Sakeguchi would have O.Ked it, it doesn't mean that it wasn't planned between Nojima and Kitase before hand and was just never officially mentioned until Sakeguchi left. Gawd now I'm sounding like a conspiracy theorist:rolleyes2...

His company, Mistwalker, was formed in 2004 but according to this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mistwalker the company was trademarked by him in 2001, which signifies he was probably going to leave the company soon.

Ultimately, I would like to remind everyone that the discussion (at this point) is whether Sakeguchi himself wanted VII and X be connected. I'm aware that no matter how much I bitch and moan, they are connected and I still stand by my feelings of this being a bad idea. I choose not to accept their connection cause I prefer thinking of the FF games as "independant universes" and the games themselves "the final fantasies of these respected worlds" which is why I don't count sequels, spin-offs, and prequels as canon. Just let me believe in my self induced delusions :rolleyes2

Okay?
Okay;)

I think that to secretly link them was a pretty bad idea, not to mention that it completely went against the ideals of Sakaguchi. Anyway, my opinion isn't that different from Wolf Kanno's so whatever, read his posts again :D

Ain't Wolfy the best. There was no need to PM him, because he would basically bring me up to date with everything...IN THE WORLD!!!!

I hate this link idea they had, and it sucks. I prefer to differ from thoughts about them being connected in any way, they just have one kid with a coincidence of having the same name, of one of the main guys in VII. End of.

Cheer up guys! Though I myself like the idea (sorry!) I can see monumental plot holes in it so I doubt it will ever fly.

As for Sakaguchi not ever changing his mind.... I myself admire a lot more people who are capable of evolving than people who stick with their first idea just out of stubbornness ;)

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

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Originally Posted by Hazzard

You're being a bit too harsh on the script writers, because most people and I would agree that they done exceptionally well, on games like; VII, VIII and X. The stories were well written in depth, and I completely understood everything that was happening, I don't exactly know where any holes were left undone in those games, and everything was usually explained. Maybe not entirely on VII, and maybe they did go a bit way wall on that game, but the others, tell me why then?

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PM me and we'll have this discussion cause I don't want to derail the thread. But the quick answer for the FFVII plot hole (one example at least) is play the part where Cloud remembers what really happened at Nibleheim then watch Last Order. You'll notice one very specific difference between the two with Last Order fixing a major issue people complain about in the plot...

Oddly enough I don't hate VIII and I've come to "terms" with VII but I feel both games major weaknesses come from bad writing.

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First, you're trying to take away Nojima's authority over his work because you personally don't like his stories. I have to say you can't even compare the story writing of the first 6 games with the stories he worked on. There was so much more emphasis put into it that is too obvious to deny. And most of the "plot holes" that you talk about are from cultural differences in interpretation when translating these games.

As far as FF's not being connected, does anyone have a source where Sakaguchi said his goal was to not connect any of the games? I remember him saying he wanted to start fresh every game but not saying that.

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Originally Posted by Renmiri

Cheer up guys! Though I myself like the idea (sorry!) I can see monumental plot holes in it so I doubt it will ever fly.

As for Sakaguchi not ever changing his mind.... I myself admire a lot more people who are capable of evolving than people who stick with their first idea just out of stubbornness ;)

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I like to think that he is continuely evolving by never really looking back. So many people get caught up in their first success that they live in it's shadow. Though Looking at the series as whole you get the feeling he's stilltrapped by his success, I like to believe that in his mind he doesn't really feel the pressure. You get the feeling from most of his interviews that he feels everyone of his games is a success to himself at least. I have to admire that.

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

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Originally Posted by Hazzard

You're being a bit too harsh on the script writers, because most people and I would agree that they done exceptionally well, on games like; VII, VIII and X. The stories were well written in depth, and I completely understood everything that was happening, I don't exactly know where any holes were left undone in those games, and everything was usually explained. Maybe not entirely on VII, and maybe they did go a bit way wall on that game, but the others, tell me why then?

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PM me and we'll have this discussion cause I don't want to derail the thread. But the quick answer for the FFVII plot hole (one example at least) is play the part where Cloud remembers what really happened at Nibleheim then watch Last Order. You'll notice one very specific difference between the two with Last Order fixing a major issue people complain about in the plot...

Oddly enough I don't hate VIII and I've come to "terms" with VII but I feel both games major weaknesses come from bad writing.

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First, you're trying to take away Nojima's authority over his work because you personally don't like his stories. I have to say you can't even compare the story writing of the first 6 games with the stories he worked on. There was so much more emphasis put into it that is too obvious to deny. And most of the "plot holes" that you talk about are from cultural differences in interpretation when translating these games.

As far as FF's not being connected, does anyone have a source where Sakaguchi said his goal was to not connect any of the games? I remember him saying he wanted to start fresh every game but not saying that.

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VI is easily as good as any of the later games. I still feel it's the best written within the main series. The early games were limited by technology and the fact that Square was breaking new ground in the territory of RPG innovations with many other companies. FFIII-V may not have very sophisticated stories or characters but when you really look at the stories and what they did within their time, they are truly amazing. Hell I still feel that IV has a well written cast of characters that easily chump anything the later games have thrown at me.

My problem with Nojima doing this is not just because I dislike him as a writer but also because FF (to me) belongs to Sakeguchi. If someone can post me an interview where Sakeguchi says "Connect these FF's together? Sounds good!" then I'll shut up. I just feel they are tarnishing another man's legacy.

What cultural differences within interpretation? Maybe for my complaint of Yuna (which I have never even mentioed on this thread but I know it's because of a cultural differnce that I dislike her:rolleyes2 ) VII has a few plot issues that piss me off and make me unable to see the game as really good. It's not a bad game but it's not anywhere close to perfect like people treat it as. VIII does a few things really well and a few things really bad... The plot just seems so disjointed, like they were using only a rough draft and never went back to smooth it out and make it more cohesive. X... I just dislike it. It was mostly predictable, most of the cast are cliche's and it was boring to watch. I felt like I was watching another "Hollywood Summer Blockbuster movie" it follows the formula for them to a tee. It tries to be intellectual but it's attempts are shallow at best, instead focusing on a predictable love story. Granted it's presented well, but I just felt it was average at best as RPGs go.

If the man has written anything well, it's KH1 and KH:CoM. Both are exceptional, especially CoM. But then KH2 is released and it destroys everything he did in the first two games. He built up all this expectations and not only does he fail to deliver he he royally blows it by removing every relevant element in the game and writing stupid plot twist for the sake of getting a cheap emotional stir from the player later. I have absolutely no interest in the series anymore...

I'm looking for an interview with him where he mentions why he doesn't make direct sequels.

no timeline....there are similar things used, such as chocobos, etc. aside from the obvious FF10 and FF10-2

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

VI is easily as good as any of the later games. I still feel it's the best written within the main series. The early games were limited by technology and the fact that Square was breaking new ground in the territory of RPG innovations with many other companies. FFIII-V may not have very sophisticated stories or characters but when you really look at the stories and what they did within their time, they are truly amazing. Hell I still feel that IV has a well written cast of characters that easily chump anything the later games have thrown at me.

My problem with Nojima doing this is not just because I dislike him as a writer but also because FF (to me) belongs to Sakeguchi. If someone can post me an interview where Sakeguchi says "Connect these FF's together? Sounds good!" then I'll shut up. I just feel they are tarnishing another man's legacy.

What cultural differences within interpretation? Maybe for my complaint of Yuna (which I have never even mentioed on this thread but I know it's because of a cultural differnce that I dislike her:rolleyes2 ) VII has a few plot issues that piss me off and make me unable to see the game as really good. It's not a bad game but it's not anywhere close to perfect like people treat it as. VIII does a few things really well and a few things really bad... The plot just seems so disjointed, like they were using only a rough draft and never went back to smooth it out and make it more cohesive. X... I just dislike it. It was mostly predictable, most of the cast are cliche's and it was boring to watch. I felt like I was watching another "Hollywood Summer Blockbuster movie" it follows the formula for them to a tee. It tries to be intellectual but it's attempts are shallow at best, instead focusing on a predictable love story. Granted it's presented well, but I just felt it was average at best as RPGs go.

If the man has written anything well, it's KH1 and KH:CoM. Both are exceptional, especially CoM. But then KH2 is released and it destroys everything he did in the first two games. He built up all this expectations and not only does he fail to deliver he he royally blows it by removing every relevant element in the game and writing stupid plot twist for the sake of getting a cheap emotional stir from the player later. I have absolutely no interest in the series anymore...

I'm looking for an interview with him where he mentions why he doesn't make direct sequels.

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No one disagrees that for their time, the first 6 games were pretty great. In fact, i would have to say personally i feel it would've been impossible to give them sophisticated storylines.

It doesn't change the fact that they could've been written by an 8-year-old.

Im also sure no one would disagree that FF is Sakaguchi's series, but VII+X are Nojima's games moreso than Sakaguchi's. The series as a whole is hardly one man's idea, as IX is the only one he's been really involved on since V (which, ironically, is the game that most and firstly gave support to the same universe theory(IX that is, not V)).

I'd also like to note that you give absolutely no examples of the bad story writing you seem to dislike so much. In fact, you have possibly the most vague reasons for not liking them

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(on VII) It's not a bad game but it's not anywhere close to perfect like people treat it as. VIII does a few things really well and a few things really bad...

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I have news for you - that applies to every game in the series.

It's sad to see the FF community is still to this day divided between those who like VII and those who don't - for no reason other than it's more popular than VI. Almost every thread is rooted in it, and this timeline thread is no exception.

I didn't go into detail because the thread is about a "timeline scenario" not "What asinine things WK thinks about?". My last post has already detracted far enough from the original point of the thread and I'm trying not to derail this thread anymore than I already have. Besides, who honestly here even gives a damn about my opinion? ;)

Lighten up and stop taking this so personally and I'll do the same.:p

VII and VIII are much of Sakeguchi's games as they are Nojima's as there is evidence he worked intimately with these games.VII's original storyline was written by Sakeguchi and Nomura, and Sakaguchi is said to be the one in charge of pushing the visual effects of VIII. IX is most likely the last game he really worked on so I give X and X-2 to be Nojima's. He was intimately involved with VII but perhaps not VIII.

Honestly, I'm wondering why people even want the games to be connected? It seems pointless to me in the long run.

P.S. If you really want to listen to my opinions of the series overall, we can find a better place to discuss it;)

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Originally Posted by Mercen-X

Also, heya, if Squee made a game that anyone would recognize as being a summary of the events of all games Final Fantasy (of course, knowing Squee, it'd be done properly with new faces, new tech, and no character references except maybe a Sid), would you bother playing it?

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Just a reminder, this was an added topic.

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Originally Posted by Hazzard

Also, about this whole 'X--VII, they're related', I swear; if they use someone like that little kid in X-2 (worst game ever) then that's hardly a valid reason. His name may of been Shinra, but that doesn't send any signals to me that the two games are set in the same world. Should they start saying that Biggs and Wedge have been set in the same world?

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I doubt Biggs, Wedge, or Shinra would have anything to do with the connection. It's mostly the idea of Spira developing space travel and the relation between Fayth and Mako. Hell, Jenova herself could have simply been an ugly-ass Aeon gone wrong like Sin. Not saying I grant any merit to the idea, but you've gotta give benefit of the doubt to those who have entertained us with at least a handful of entertaining games.

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

No one disagrees that for their time, the first 6 games were pretty great. It doesn't change the fact that they could've been written by an 8-year-old.

It's sad to see the FF community is still to this day divided between those who like VII and those who don't - for no reason other than it's more popular than VI. Almost every thread is rooted in it, and this timeline thread is no exception.

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Caesar's thumb is pointed . . . skyward.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

I didn't go into detail because the thread is about a "timeline scenario" not "What asinine things WK thinks about?"

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Thank you.

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Honestly, I'm wondering why people even want the games to be connected? It seems pointless to me in the long run.

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What is your view? Do you see Final Fantasy from the Gamer's Point of View?
Or do you see the world of Final Fantasy through the perspective of one who plays a crucial role in its story?

I think the people who dislike the idea are that way because they either think it goes against the Sakeguchi plan or the plotholes make it seem ridiculous.
I think the people who are for it are because they feel themselves to be as much a part of these worlds as Cloud or Shadow or Zidane. With the main story out of the way, what's to become of the world and its characters?
You fear the games will be ruined, they fear the story will end. Get it?

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Originally Posted by Mercen-X

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Honestly, I'm wondering why people even want the games to be connected? It seems pointless to me in the long run.

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What is your view? Do you see Final Fantasy from the Gamer's Point of View?
Or do you see the world of Final Fantasy through the perspective of one who plays a crucial role in its story?

I think the people who dislike the idea are that way because they either think it goes against the Sakeguchi plan or the plotholes make it seem ridiculous.
I think the people who are for it are because they feel themselves to be as much a part of these worlds as Cloud or Shadow or Zidane. With the main story out of the way, what's to become of the world and its characters?
You fear the games will be ruined, they fear the story will end. Get it?

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I think that's a pretty accurate summary. For me personally. I like to think that each game is "the final fantasy" of these respective worlds. By that, I I feel they are all stand alone stories. Many of the games really had nothing left to say. Look at X-2 and Advent Children. Neither tell anything that really helps their original stories. X-2 has the ending that fans whined about after finishing FFX, but Advent Children or any of it's spinoffs seem to actually add anything. I feel both projects were created in order to milk popular games, not because they had anything relevant to say.

I really do feel that X-2 ruined the good qualities of FFX's story; while the FFVII project has been nothing more than a waste of time in terms of building on the world and characters. Of anything, Last Order seems to have been created to finally explain some issues people had with the story so perhaps it isn't a total waste.

I feel this connection theory is really not adding anything to either game involved. All it really seems to be doing (IMHO) is making raving fans have a warm tingling feeling to know that their Lulu/Vincent fanfic is actually plausible and to create an opportunity to create countless sequels and prequels that will be scrutinized by fans for generation over every little detail including the plot holes they will be having to explain.

I feel the fans need to learn to let go. Lightening rarely strikes twice and it's better to just leave these games alone rather than have to suffer through Hollywood style "get rich quick" sequels that just tarnish the original. I don't feel any game in the series really needed a sequel, and I can easily resist the temptation of needing a prequel cause most of the games explain it well enough.

I don't like the idea that FFXIV-XVIII could be devoted to nothing but the story of how FFX and FFVII are connected. I always liked how each FF was mostly different from each other, with completely different worlds, characters, stories, and game mechanics. There was a mythology it had to follow but if you really think about it, the mythology leaves a lot of room for interpretation and creativity. It was never really strict "chocobos, Cid, Airships, certain music tracks". Now I have to deal with spheres, materia, Lifestream, zombies, I have to listen to them come up with good explanantions as to why death works differently in both worlds. And the real bitch is, I just know they are going to half ass explain this with a "they're different planets".

Face it people... (SPOILER)Dalmasca was restored, Tidus is dead, Zidane got the girl, Squall finally opened up, Sephiroth is dead, Magic is gone, Bartz didn't win any of the girls, Cecil and Rosa lived happily ever after, balance was restored, Leon is an ass and will always be an ass, and the original Light Warriors are trapped in a time loop;) . I don't feel anything is left to be said about their worlds and these characters.

P.S. Bolivar, I'm still looking for that quote.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

X-2 has the ending that fans whined about after finishing FFX. If anything, Last Order seems to have been created to finally explain some issues people had with the story so perhaps it isn't a total waste.
I don't feel any game in the series really needed a sequel, and I can easily resist the temptation of needing a prequel cause most of the games explain it well enough.

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Agreed. Agreed.
Yeah, but anyway, I'm more a fan of game prequels than any sequels myself. I've always wondered why more games don't extend into the past rather than into the future.

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Face it people... the original Light Warriors are trapped in a time loop.

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There's one I don't like. I think the idea of a timeloop is just a ridiculous cop-out. The creators of the first game couldn't think of where the Light Warriors really came from and then couldn't think of a real ending, so they're in a timeloop. Niiice.

Its been proven that 7 and 10 are connected, just very distantly. So... I don't know, there might be some kind of timeline, but it'd all be speculation.

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Originally Posted by Mercen-X

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

X-2 has the ending that fans whined about after finishing FFX. If anything, Last Order seems to have been created to finally explain some issues people had with the story so perhaps it isn't a total waste.
I don't feel any game in the series really needed a sequel, and I can easily resist the temptation of needing a prequel cause most of the games explain it well enough.

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Agreed. Agreed.
Yeah, but anyway, I'm more a fan of game prequels than any sequels myself. I've always wondered why more games don't extend into the past rather than into the future.

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Face it people... the original Light Warriors are trapped in a time loop.

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There's one I don't like. I think the idea of a timeloop is just a ridiculous cop-out. The creators of the first game couldn't think of where the Light Warriors really came from and then couldn't think of a real ending, so they're in a timeloop. Niiice.

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The problem with prequels is that sometimes the writer's forget basic things and end up creating some weird inconsistencies between the stories. I have a weird feeling that Crisis Core is going to do that to FFVII.

Zelda seems to always be a prequel to the last title in the series. Hell the games have major inconsistencies so it's almost a safe bet to say that most of the games are self-contained and their is no timeline at all.

As for the Light Warriors... I actually like the time loop ending. For it's time it was rather original and it was a major contrast from DQ1 and 2's "they live happily ever after" endings. Now it seems pretty stupid but I thought it was creative for it's time.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

The problem with prequels is that sometimes the writer's forget basic things and end up creating some weird inconsistencies between the stories.

As for the Light Warriors... I actually like the time loop ending. For it's time it was rather original and it was a major contrast from DQ1 and 2's "they live happily ever after" endings. Now it seems pretty stupid but I thought it was creative for it's time.

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Yeah, I haven't played Valkyrie Profile yet (with Lenneth) and I'm like half-way through Silmeria. It would suck to play the original VP and see/hear things that shouldn't be there or things that are missing.
As to Zelda . . . definitely an inconsistent series.

Yeah, for its time. I mostly brought it up because I hate how the anime Wolf's Rain ended the same way. It's a tactless attempt to keep fanboys at bay who are brought to full-on rampages when they don't get sequels or other such continuations. Definitely useful, but tactless nonetheless.

Anyway, one of my primary questions still has gone unanswered:

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Originally Posted by Mercen-X

Also, heya, if Squee made a game that anyone would recognize as being a summary of the events of all games Final Fantasy (of course, knowing Squee, it'd be done properly with new faces, new tech, and no character references except maybe a Sid), would you bother playing it?

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Originally Posted by Mercen-X

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

The problem with prequels is that sometimes the writer's forget basic things and end up creating some weird inconsistencies between the stories.

As for the Light Warriors... I actually like the time loop ending. For it's time it was rather original and it was a major contrast from DQ1 and 2's "they live happily ever after" endings. Now it seems pretty stupid but I thought it was creative for it's time.

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Yeah, I haven't played Valkyrie Profile yet (with Lenneth) and I'm like half-way through Silmeria. It would suck to play the original VP and see/hear things that shouldn't be there or things that are missing.
As to Zelda . . . definitely an inconsistent series.

Yeah, for its time. I mostly brought it up because I hate how the anime Wolf's Rain ended the same way. It's a tactless attempt to keep fanboys at bay who are brought to full-on rampages when they don't get sequels or other such continuations. Definitely useful, but tactless nonetheless.

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Welcome to Buddhist thought. Alot of series dwell on the Buddhist concept of death and rebirth, it never surprises me anymore to see it.

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Originally Posted by Mercen-X

Also, heya, if Squee made a game that anyone would recognize as being a summary of the events of all games Final Fantasy (of course, knowing Squee, it'd be done properly with new faces, new tech, and no character references except maybe a Sid), would you bother playing it?

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Alright, I'll give my take on this.

No, even if it came with a bottle of aspirin to help the migraine that will be caused by the convulated bull:skull::skull::skull::skull: that is going to be the "FF Connection Theory". Honestly, I would like to think Squeenix was smart enough to realize that trying to connect them all together will never work. As far as I see it, they have only four options that can connect the worlds together:

1) Same world but the games storylines are separated by spans of eons.

2) Same universe but each story takes place on different worlds

3) Same world but alternate timelines.

4) Some odd combination of the first three choices.

Now I'm going to assume that your question is regarding the third or fourth options since they will have the least amount of inconsistencies. I guess it depends really, I would probably play it if I didn't know the point of the game was to be the that it connects them all. If it slipped out that it was, I would probably only play it out of morbid curiosity.

If the game tried to connect them using the third option, it wouldn't be so bad as long as the whole connected thing ended with that game. No future crossovers or anything. Just say it so certain fans would stop whining and then don't go into it ever again to make the rest of us stop whining. I would still be angry at the idea that Sqeenix was thinking of doing possible crossovers that actually have some bearing on their respected FF worlds though.

I don't mind how KH is using the FF guest stars as long as the event in KH don't become canon in the FF games. Last thing I need to see is that KH1 takes place after FFVII:AC.

All right, we'll sum it up this way:

A Final Fantasy that combines all the greatest features, abilities, creatures, summons, character profiles, weapons, and special moments.

You'd have a Sid; a bunch of cool yet inconsequential characters similar to the four light warriors, then Dark Knight Cecil, Kain, Shadow, Cloud; and villains like Kefka and Sephiroth.

There would be limits and such and most of the key moments would serve as basic reminders of historical stamps in previous Final Fantasy titles all the while never trying nor claiming to be a direct compilement of Final Fantasy history.

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Originally Posted by Duality

Each Final Fantasy setting is independent to its predecessors. There is no link between them other than the makers wanting to get recognisable trademarks featured in the games.*

* There is an exception regarding FFX and FFVII due to some tosser who is also one of the story writers or something named Nojima who claimed to have made FFX a prequel to FFVII. This is debatable though.

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There IS a link between VII and X/X-2 though. I had mentioned it somewhere else on this forum, and someone DID confirm it but they hated the reference/connection as I recall.

Ah yes, it's here: Final Fantasy X-2 Ultimania FAQ - IGN FAQs

>>> FF1 and FF9 have lots of things in common too..

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Originally Posted by Mercen-X

All right, we'll sum it up this way:

A Final Fantasy that combines all the greatest features, abilities, creatures, summons, character profiles, weapons, and special moments.

You'd have a Sid; a bunch of cool yet inconsequential characters similar to the four light warriors, then Dark Knight Cecil, Kain, Shadow, Cloud; and villains like Kefka and Sephiroth.

There would be limits and such and most of the key moments would serve as basic reminders of historical stamps in previous Final Fantasy titles all the while never trying nor claiming to be a direct compilement of Final Fantasy history.

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You would get something like FFIX and FFT. Both game has obvious parallels to almost every FF game released before it. Reading the Proposition and side mission reports in FFT alone mentions scenes and places that have happened throughout the series.

I'm surprised (or just haven't payed attention to the back logs of the forum) that more people haven't tried making timelines for a connection theory using FFT as the basis. To me, it's a more obvious choice even though I'm fully aware the references are "in-jokes" more than being some "connection theory".

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

You would get something like FFIX and FFT. Both game has obvious parallels to almost every FF game released before it. Reading the Proposition and side mission reports in FFT alone mentions scenes and places that have happened throughout the series.

I'm surprised (or just haven't payed attention to the back logs of the forum) that more people haven't tried making timelines for a connection theory using FFT as the basis. To me, it's a more obvious choice even though I'm fully aware the references are "in-jokes" more than being some "connection theory".

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OOC:	Why does the word "position" always get quoted with "< b >< b>" between the "s" and "i"?

Anyway. I think I got that IX made a few theme references (i.e. the four demons, accelerated technology in Medieval locations, interspacial connections, a crapload of familiar names), but I have yet to really play Tactics. I own it, but after having to sit through the opening, I just can't even stand to look at the cover. There's no way to speed up or skip the boring-ass thing.
Scrap the game idea. I'll come up with something less obvious and maybe a bit more entertaining.

FFT is simply not as popular as the numbered FF's, so most people are not familiar with the in-jokes and references because they haven't played the game. FFT connects directly (and retroactively) to FFVII and FFXII connects (again retroactively) to FFT. And as you said, the references are just that: references.

To have all the FF's happen on the same planet would require major continental upheaval (on par with FFVI's), which is far-fetched. At any rate I think the FFT-FVII linkage suggests that they happen on separate worlds that may coexist at the same time.

Planet: Valicia Spiralithica (has no meaning)
Timeframe: X year (does not yet matter)
Timeline: tragedy begins the year, journey begins near middle of year, evil is defeated by the end of the year
History: Blatant references to the most memorable scenes from all previous titles, references to four light warriors, names from Firion to Lightning are markers for tragedies and heroic epics throughout time, etc.
Style: None. Blend of familiar costumes from days of old. Something new may pop up somewhere.
Tragedy: the villain's hometown is destroyed by a neighboring city
Journey: must find the item of power before villain can use it for his revenge and stupidly destroy everything
KEY: a gigantic mobile fortress the villain plans to destroy innocent people with
Twist: most of the villain's lackeys are close friends and family of the traveling hero
Hero: a cocky kid soldier slashing his way to elite ranks with his gunblade in tow
Dilemma: nearly everybody hates him
Villain: a once-hated war general who for a time ran a peaceful town
Problem: luciferous . . . he is manipulative and adored by all who meet him

Mechanics: battles play like traditional Final Fantasy titles, except tactics from Dragoon, Legaia and other well-thought games are sneakily included, while special attacks appear mostly at random. More powerful LIMIT BREAKS or what have you are performed using mini-game play methods, like having a trigger finger or using the play-buttons/D-Pad to articulate an attack.

Checkin back in here, alot of interesting stuff brought up.

To answer one of your original questions Merc, yes I would play a game that involved all the FF's, as I've played every FF and major spinoff, and so far I have been satisfied with all of them (yet extremely frustrated with XII).

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Originally Posted by BG-57

To have all the FF's happen on the same planet would require major continental upheaval (on par with FFVI's), which is far-fetched. At any rate I think the FFT-FVII linkage suggests that they happen on separate worlds that may coexist at the same time.

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Far-fetched? You mean like the major continental upheavals that have already taken place on our planet over its vast history? In a way, that would contribute to a connection making sense, as this takes thousands of years to occur, and all catastrophic events in FF seem to take place thousands of years apart within each game, so I would imagine it would be even longer between games. Not to mention that the denizens of the FF world have been drastically changing the geology of their planets since FFI (Gnomes using TNT, the Ancients raising castles).



Back on topic, I would like to ask, if you feel the X & VII connection is far-fetched, why do you think so? One poster claimed that a whole connection being based on two characters sharing the same name is rediculous. I would agree, as that's occured in many FF's, and blatantly as references.

However, when that said character starts talking about extracting life force of those that passed from the planet, and refining it into energy, a red flag goes up.

I would also say that using space technology as the bridge between the two games is not far-fetched either, as space exploration has played a part in a number of games, and there has been in every game a group or ancient civilization obsessed with making objects fly. Space is the logical end of that line of thinking, as epitomized in Cid Highwind.

Furthermore, races traveling to other planets does not sound like bad fan fiction - it sounds like what has already happened in Final Fantasy IV, V, VII, and IX.

My idea of there being a possibility of the series being related is not that they happen one after the other, or that the story of one impacts the story of the other. I would believe that the games are still not related, but that they take place either thousands or tens of thousands of years apart, on different planets, or possibly even in different dimensions/universes. But there are alot of things, other than chocobos, moogles, and Cids that pop up in numerous games. The sky fortress, the Void, Cloud of Darkness, Ancients, dwarves, technology & magic at odds, Meteor & Holy, to name a few are specific things, some of which that are clearly not "trademarks" but staples that the characters expect to be in their world, and have been for a very long time.

P.S. Kanno, I'm still waiting for the Sakaguchi interview. You said "several" :)

Where are all of you getting that X and VII arte connected? I've never heard of that and it doesn't make sense when the structure of their worlds are totally different and both of them have their own sequels.

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

Far-fetched? You mean like the major continental upheavals that have already taken place on our planet over its vast history? In a way, that would contribute to a connection making sense, as this takes thousands of years to occur, and all catastrophic events in FF seem to take place thousands of years apart within each game, so I would imagine it would be even longer between games. Not to mention that the denizens of the FF world have been drastically changing the geology of their planets since FFI (Gnomes using TNT, the Ancients raising castles).

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For continental drift to explain the map changes, you'd have to allow for millions of years, not thousands. And although catastrophic rearrangement of the world map did occur in FFVI, it'd have to happen about 11 or 12 more times to account for every world map of every FF being different. Mind you, I didn't say it was impossible, just very unlikely.

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

Back on topic, I would like to ask, if you feel the X & VII connection is far-fetched, why do you think so? One poster claimed that a whole connection being based on two characters sharing the same name is rediculous. I would agree, as that's occured in many FF's, and blatantly as references.

However, when that said character starts talking about extracting life force of those that passed from the planet, and refining it into energy, a red flag goes up.

I would also say that using space technology as the bridge between the two games is not far-fetched either, as space exploration has played a part in a number of games, and there has been in every game a group or ancient civilization obsessed with making objects fly. Space is the logical end of that line of thinking, as epitomized in Cid Highwind.

Furthermore, races traveling to other planets does not sound like bad fan fiction - it sounds like what has already happened in Final Fantasy IV, V, VII, and IX.

My idea of there being a possibility of the series being related is not that they happen one after the other, or that the story of one impacts the story of the other. I would believe that the games are still not related, but that they take place either thousands or tens of thousands of years apart, on different planets, or possibly even in different dimensions/universes. But there are alot of things, other than chocobos, moogles, and Cids that pop up in numerous games. The sky fortress, the Void, Cloud of Darkness, Ancients, dwarves, technology & magic at odds, Meteor & Holy, to name a few are specific things, some of which that are clearly not "trademarks" but staples that the characters expect to be in their world, and have been for a very long time.

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I think if the producers want to connect games like FFX and FFVII they should to do it with more than one conversation. The Suikoden series has multiple characters that appear in every game, and multiple references to places and events in previous installments. That would be a better way to do it, instead of these half-hearted measures. The way it was handled makes me feel like the producers were elbowing me in the ribs.

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Originally Posted by Ashley Schovitz

Where are all of you getting that X and VII arte connected? I've never heard of that and it doesn't make sense when the structure of their worlds are totally different and both of them have their own sequels.

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Bolivar was referring to a character in FFX-2 named Shinra, and the company in FFVII is named the Shin-Ra corporation. That could have just been a reference not a connection, except there's a scene where he analyzes the life energy of the planet and says it's theoretically possible to extract it and use it for energy, but it's not feasible at the present time. FFX-2 is hinting that the events of FFX and FFX-2 predate FFVII in time (if not necesserily in space).

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Originally Posted by BG-57

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

Far-fetched? You mean like the major continental upheavals that have already taken place on our planet over its vast history? In a way, that would contribute to a connection making sense, as this takes thousands of years to occur, and all catastrophic events in FF seem to take place thousands of years apart within each game, so I would imagine it would be even longer between games. Not to mention that the denizens of the FF world have been drastically changing the geology of their planets since FFI (Gnomes using TNT, the Ancients raising castles).

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For continental drift to explain the map changes, you'd have to allow for millions of years, not thousands. And although catastrophic rearrangement of the world map did occur in FFVI, it'd have to happen about 11 or 12 more times to account for every world map of every FF being different. Mind you, I didn't say it was impossible, just very unlikely.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

Back on topic, I would like to ask, if you feel the X & VII connection is far-fetched, why do you think so? One poster claimed that a whole connection being based on two characters sharing the same name is rediculous. I would agree, as that's occured in many FF's, and blatantly as references.

However, when that said character starts talking about extracting life force of those that passed from the planet, and refining it into energy, a red flag goes up.

I would also say that using space technology as the bridge between the two games is not far-fetched either, as space exploration has played a part in a number of games, and there has been in every game a group or ancient civilization obsessed with making objects fly. Space is the logical end of that line of thinking, as epitomized in Cid Highwind.

Furthermore, races traveling to other planets does not sound like bad fan fiction - it sounds like what has already happened in Final Fantasy IV, V, VII, and IX.

My idea of there being a possibility of the series being related is not that they happen one after the other, or that the story of one impacts the story of the other. I would believe that the games are still not related, but that they take place either thousands or tens of thousands of years apart, on different planets, or possibly even in different dimensions/universes. But there are alot of things, other than chocobos, moogles, and Cids that pop up in numerous games. The sky fortress, the Void, Cloud of Darkness, Ancients, dwarves, technology & magic at odds, Meteor & Holy, to name a few are specific things, some of which that are clearly not "trademarks" but staples that the characters expect to be in their world, and have been for a very long time.

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I think if the producers want to connect games like FFX and FFVII they should to do it with more than one conversation. The Suikoden series has multiple characters that appear in every game, and multiple references to places and events in previous installments. That would be a better way to do it, instead of these half-hearted measures. The way it was handled makes me feel like the producers were elbowing me in the ribs.

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Originally Posted by Ashley Schovitz

Where are all of you getting that X and VII arte connected? I've never heard of that and it doesn't make sense when the structure of their worlds are totally different and both of them have their own sequels.

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Bolivar was referring to a character in FFX-2 named Shinra, and the company in FFVII is named the Shin-Ra corporation. That could have just been a reference not a connection, except there's a scene where he analyzes the life energy of the planet and says it's theoretically possible to extract it and use it for energy, but it's not feasible at the present time. FFX-2 is hinting that the events of FFX and FFX-2 predate FFVII in time (if not necesserily in space).

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that's true, it is very weak as of now since it seems like it was just mentioned in passing.

And I don't think every FF world map is in the same world, could be diff planets.

I think it's more of a conceptual scene than a physical setting. What I mean is they do take place in the same world, the world of Final Fantasy.

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Originally Posted by BG-57

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Originally Posted by Ashley Schovitz

Where are all of you getting that X and VII arte connected? I've never heard of that and it doesn't make sense when the structure of their worlds are totally different and both of them have their own sequels.

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Bolivar was referring to a character in FFX-2 named Shinra, and the company in FFVII is named the Shin-Ra corporation. That could have just been a reference not a connection, except there's a scene where he analyzes the life energy of the planet and says it's theoretically possible to extract it and use it for energy, but it's not feasible at the present time. FFX-2 is hinting that the events of FFX and FFX-2 predate FFVII in time (if not necesserily in space).

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Kids, do read the first page on the thread. It's all there with links ;) Ultimania FFX-2 has an interview with Nomura where he flat out declares the 2 games are connected. FFVII takes place centuries later on a new planet but Shinra's name and the idea of extracting life energy came from Spira.

I'm gonna try and attempt to connect all the FF's with my own timeline thingy. Might take a while though, I need to gather some info from the FF's I haven't played. This should be fun.:D

I think it's obvious that all of the FFs are connected. They all have characters named Cid. Many of them have magic, chocobos, and moogles.

Also, all of them have trees, mountains, and oceans. They have humanlike characters as well. This is obviously designed to show the series is all connected.

Furthermore, imps/goblins exist in other RPGs as well, and other RPGs have magic like "cure" and "fire." This shows that not only do all FFs take place in the same world, but all RPGs, in fact, take place in the same world.

My red pen and "final fantasy" have been mentioned in the same sentence, just now. My red pen and "final fantasy" are all a part of the same world. My world exists within final fantasy, not the other way around. that's how science works!

Well I'll first start off by saying that I must remove my argument about this going against the creators wishes as I have yet to find a quote. I was wrong Bolivar.

Though I find it amusing that several fans have heard of him supposedly saying it yet there is no documented proof. I did learn a few things about the man...

Favorite FF villain: Garland
Favorite FF: FFIX
Actually was working a bit on FFXII though he doesn't appear in the production credits but only in the "Thank You" section.

He likes Gears of War and Zelda.
His mother died in the middle of production for FFIII.

Back on topic...

I think it's plausible to connect some of the FF's but it's impossible (without taking a few liberties) to have a "Universal Connection Theory" mostly cause certain games are so radically different from the rest of the series mostly FFVI, VII, VIII, X, and XII.

Now while VII and X are officially connected, this still leads to issues with VI, VIII, and XII. While FFI, III, IV, V, and to some extent IX can be somewhat connected. FFII is an oddity but would most likely work in the "Crystal" FF's rather than the other ones.

The major problems are lack of the four elemental crystals in all the games, the lifestream/farplane, espers(FFVI), GF's and the Sorcerors, as well as materia and spheres.

With the different planet theory and ignoring some factors it's possible to build a timeline. In the different universe/dimension theory I feel the entire Connection Theory becomes a moot point and a same planet vast timeline theory is just improbable.

Putting it all together, I feel there is sufficient evidence that there are at least three different worlds that the FF series takes place on:

1) Spira (FFX, FFX-2)

2) The Planet (FFVII)

3) Ivalice (FFXII, FFT)

Also the events in Spira would logically predate those in the Planet (although if we involve time compression, cause and effect may be thrown out the window). I feel strongly that the events of FFXII predate not only FFT, but FFVII as well (since it seems that FFVII and FFT happen at the same time).

As for the other games I see no way (as of yet) to connect them to each other beyond shared themes.

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Originally Posted by ,,,

I think it's obvious that all of the FFs are connected.
Also, all of them have trees, mountains, and oceans.

My red pen and "final fantasy" have been mentioned in the same sentence, just now. My red pen and "final fantasy" are all a part of the same world. My world exists within final fantasy, not the other way around. that's how science works!

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:D

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Originally Posted by BG-57

I feel that there are at least three different worlds that the FF series takes place on:

1) Spira (FFX, FFX-2)

2) The Planet (FFVII)

3) Ivalice (FFXII, FFT)

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What about I-VI & IX. In nine, a second planet is mentioned, from which Garland is transporting information on his entire world, meant to be programmed into the manufactured creatures, of which Kuja and Zidane originate.

We're also forgetting another major player. Cloud, Tifa, Vincent, Yuffie, Sephiroth, and Zack (as well as a guardian creature very similar to Red XIII) all take part in the Ehrgeiz tournament. What do you make of that?

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Originally Posted by Mercen-X

We're also forgetting another major player. Cloud, Tifa, Vincent, Yuffie, Sephiroth, and Zack (as well as a guardian creature very similar to Red XIII) all take part in the Ehrgeiz tournament. What do you make of that?

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cameo's = $$$$$

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mercen-X

What about I-VI & IX. In nine, a second planet is mentioned, from which Garland is transporting information on his entire world, meant to be programmed into the manufactured creatures, of which Kuja and Zidane originate.

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Theoretically the world of FFIX and the 'other world' could be two of those three I mentioned that have been remodeled, like what happened in FFVI (although there's no evidence to support that line of reasoning). Same deal with FFI-FFIV; they haven't been tied to each other in any canonical way.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mercen-X

We're also forgetting another major player. Cloud, Tifa, Vincent, Yuffie, Sephiroth, and Zack (as well as a guardian creature very similar to Red XIII) all take part in the Ehrgeiz tournament. What do you make of that?

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I'd file that under the same category as the parallel Aeris in FFT (same name, same profession, same appearance but not the FFVII Aeris).

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Originally Posted by bipper

cameo's = $$$$$

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That too. :D

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Originally Posted by BG-57

I'd file that under the same category as the parallel Aeris in FFT (same name, same profession, same appearance but not the FFVII Aeris).

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It is funny though. They all do have the exact same professions. Cloud is an ex-SOLDIER, Tifa is a bar owner, Vincent is a former Turk, and Yuffie is a materia-thieving ninja. I think they would more properly list it under a forced participation by warriors of far-off-world origin. Or maybe they're all actors portraying a role. After all, none of their attacks actually match up against the VII style. Cloud's Omni-Slash could be V2 or something . . .

I'm making excuses and then trying to shut them down. XiXiXi.

Planet: Val Spiritus (has no meaning)
Timeframe: X year (does not yet matter)
Timeline: journey begins the year, tragedy occurs near middle of year, evil is defeated by the end of the year
History: Life-changing and world-altering events familiar from all previous titles, four light warriors, people from Firion to Lightning are present in heroic epics throughout time, etc.
Tragedy: the villain is destroyed by his more evil twin
Journey: must find the item of power before villain can use it for his plot and stupidly destroy everything
KEY: a shiny trinket with no obvious value that apparently holds evergrowing power
Twist: the villain has a third twin who is the...
Hero: a villainous upstart hoping to avenge his brother by destroying his other brother and thereby taking the world for himself
Dilemma: he gets distracted by surprises, nice people, and shiny objects
Villain: a dragoon of valiant descent
Problem: he is distrusting of everyone

Mechanics: battles play like traditional Final Fantasy titles, except tactics from Dragoon, Legaia, Shadow Hearts and other well-thought games are sneakily included, while special attacks appear mostly at random. More powerful LIMIT BREAKS or what have you are performed using mini-game play methods, like having a trigger finger or using the play-buttons/D-Pad to articulate an attack.

The "Planet" in FFVII is named Gaia in some Advent Children publicity material from SE.

We had the same debate at Wikipedia ;)

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Originally Posted by Mercen-X

It is funny though. They all do have the exact same professions. Cloud is an ex-SOLDIER, Tifa is a bar owner, Vincent is a former Turk, and Yuffie is a materia-thieving ninja. I think they would more properly list it under a forced participation by warriors of far-off-world origin. Or maybe they're all actors portraying a role. After all, none of their attacks actually match up against the VII style. Cloud's Omni-Slash could be V2 or something . . .

I'm making excuses and then trying to shut them down. XiXiXi.

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Again FFT provides the mechanics for your first suggestion: the transport device that carries Cloud over from the Planet to Ivalice. The actor angle is interesting, but I'm not sure what could be made of it.

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Originally Posted by Renmiri

The "Planet" in FFVII is named Gaia in some Advent Children publicity material from SE.

We had the same debate at Wikipedia ;)

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There's no reason why it can't have more than one name, although 'the Planet' is the established term. :greenie:

You know what I forgot? There's also materia in the Ehgeiz dungeon-crawling mode. As if there's an area within near the core of the planet that acts as a gate to other realities or what have you.

Why in god's name are we trying to connect Ehrgiez of all things into the FF world? We might as well start work on Chocobo Mystery Dungeon and Chocobo Racing:rolleyes2 Hell lets not forget that Tobal no.2 has a Chocobo in it:eek:

Let's try to stay focus on the main FFs and worry about spin-offs later.

So how would one go about overcoming the "Magic" issue in the FF series, since it is most likely one of the greater inconsistencies in the series. VII (and to a possible extent X) have Materia but VI has espers, VIII and XII has your party drawing forth power from the world around, IV and IX gives the impression of "natural ability" while I, II, III, V, and once again XII has your party purchasing spells which gives the impression of latent ability that needs to be honed carefully through possible scrolls and written incantations.

Obvioulsy VI and VIII are going to cause the most problems as well as materia to some extent.

I'm surprised nobody brought up KH. :greenie:

Anyways the cop-out explaination would be that there are about 10 or so different worlds that the FF series take place on.

It would be harder to integrate them to 3 or so worlds. Maybe like new energy production technologies: we've been burning wood and peat for thousands of years but using nuclear power for less than a century. As new technologies come along they displace old ones. Could magic work that way?

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

Why in god's name are we trying to connect Ehrgiez of all things into the FF world?

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Just messing around.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

So how would one go about overcoming the "Magic" issue in the FF series, since it is most likely one of the greater inconsistencies in the series.

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I haven't played enough of the games to answer that.

My half-assed attempt to explain inconsistancies in magic in the FF Series that WK mentioned. It's probably not very accurate in some parts.:tongue:

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Pre-FF1:

-Monsters take over the world (sent as punishment for people's sins by the gods)
-Magic is created by the various gods of the world and given to a select few people to help stop these monsters, and the gods have an entertaining time watching them try to control it.:D
-Magic is taught to those who want to be taught, and is seperated into White and Black Magic.

-FF1 occurs

Pre FF2:

-Magic is written into Tomes, and given to shopkeepers around the world for the use of the general public.
-Ultima magic is hidden, as too many people have abused its power and killed themselves in the process of using it.

-FF2 occurs

Pre FF3:

-Monsters sent by the gods of the world are sent to Earth to aid particular people, under the name "Espers", or "Summons".
-A law is passed that the general public can no longer use magic... only people with particular "jobs" can use them.

-FF3 occurs

Pre FF4:

-The gods give specific people the talent to learn new spells as the gain experience, with the exception of Call Beasts (Summons) which are forced into their own land and will not aid anybody until a person from the town of Mist defeats them.

-FF4 occurs

Pre FF5:

-Because magic is getting too commonplace, the "job" system is reinforced and people have to pay money to learn spells, but cannot use the spell unless they have that job or have mastered that job.
-Some spells are given a new name, such as "Time Magic", "Red Magic", and all-new "Blue Magic".

-FF5 occurs

Pre FF6:

-Espers are given Magicite form when they die.
-Magic is given to Espers, who are the only ones that can teach magic, except for those that have been infused with stolen magic.
-War of the Magi occurs, and Espers flee to their own world.

-FF6 occurs

Pre FF7:

-Espers give up their magical rights, and some give magical ability only to the Cetra (Ancients). The rest let their magic flow out of them- and their spirits, too- and form Mako, which eventually crystalizes and hardens to form Materia. Espers, now called Summons, lose their Magicite form (probably thanks to evolution:tongue: )
-Humans learn how to use magic from Materia.

-FF7 occurs

Pre FF8:

-Summons come out of their Materia form, and are eventually discovered by man. Renamed "Guardian Forces".
-Junctioning system is established. Some GFs remain to be discovered by man later, and Ramuh, the leader of the GFs, is never found until the next FF era.

-FF8 occurs

Pre FF9:

-Junction system is abolished.
-GFs are renamed Eidolons, and the job system is reinforced yet again, so now only specific people can use magic.
-The town of Black Mages is built (probably built over the remains of FF2 and 4's magic town, Mysidia:cool: ).

-FF9 occurs

Pre FF10:

(SPOILER)Crap... I know next to nothing about the magic system in FF10...
-Eidolons are renamed Aeons, and only one or two people can summon them.
-The job system remains.

-FF10 occurs

Pre-FF11

I'm gonna skip this part, as I know nothing about FF11.

-FF11 occurs

Pre-FF12:

-New Espers are created, and the others go into hiding.
-Licences are created.
-Magic once again has to be bought in order to be used, and a person must have a licence to use it.

-FF12 occurs

When it comes down to it, no one is going to accept this nonsense when it takes such massive stretches of the imagination to explain it away and when the only basis for believing it is a single line from a bad game and a statement from one of the creators. Especially when it goes against so many established facts set in the continuity of the two games.

I certainly wouldn't believe Spider-Man was a Martian if Stan Lee insisted on it to me and brought out some old comic where JJJ suggests it as proof. I'd probably think he'd gone a bit senile.

And attempting to link the other games together is an exercise in futility because of the massive, massive differences between some of the worlds. You'd get more sense out of fighting game continuities and they're all over the place.

I still consider FFX-2 and Ultimania to be canon (even though FFX-2 is like Star Trek V in the sense that most fans would rather pretend it didn't happen).

I completely agree that they did a very bad job of connecting the Planet to Spira. The Suikoden series does a much better job of tying the games together.

Realistically there is only enough evidence for Planet/Ivalice/Spira connections. To connect any other worlds together would be pure speculation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dr. Acula

My half-assed attempt to explain inconsistancies in magic in the FF Series that WK mentioned. It's probably not very accurate in some parts.:tongue:

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The theoretical tie between these games is that each is a story in a set timeline: past, present, and future. It doesn't follow from past to future, but each is like an episode that occurs in different times. Therefore, only a couple of magic system changes need to be explained.

Anyway, what's right is right, and FF games aren't supposed to be connected. But if they were, how would it work? That's basically a topic reminder.




For anyone who's ever wanted to see all their favorite FF characters in a single game, just recall, that's what KH is for.

But KH only uses characters from VII, VIII, and X. I'm actually surprised they used Setzer in KH2, and even there, they bishified him to the extreme. -.-

Pre-FF1:

-Monsters take over the world (sent as punishment for people's sins by the gods)
-Magic is created by the various gods of the world and given to a select few people to help stop these monsters, and the gods have an entertaining time watching them try to control it.
-Magic is taught to those who want to be taught, and is seperated into White and Black Magic.

Pre FF2:

-Magic is written into Tomes, and given to shopkeepers around the world for the use of the general public.
-Ultima magic is hidden, as too many people have abused its power and killed themselves in the process of using it.

Pre FF3:

-Monsters sent by the gods of the world are sent to Earth to aid particular people, under the name "Espers", or "Summons".
-A law is passed that the general public can no longer use magic... only people with particular "jobs" can use them.

Pre FF9:

-Espers are renamed Eidolons, and the job system is reinforced, so now only specific people can use magic.
-The town of Black Mages is built (probably built over the remains of FF2's magic town, Mysidia).

Pre FF4:

-The gods give specific people the talent to learn new spells as they gain experience, with the exception of Summons which are forced into their own land and will not aid anybody until a person from the town of Mist defeats them.

Pre FF5:

-Because magic is getting too commonplace, the "job" system is reinforced yet again and people have to pay money to learn spells, but cannot use the spell unless they have that job or have mastered that job.
-Some spells are given a new name, such as "Time Magic", "Red Magic", and all-new "Blue Magic".

Pre-FF12:

-New Espers are created, and the others go into hiding.
-Licences are created.
-Magic once again has to be bought in order to be used, and a person must have a licence to use it.

Pre-FF11

-The job system returns.
-New races exist.

Pre FF8:

-Planet now comprised of certain alien races, older races die off with the exception of humans.
-Espers are rediscovered and renamed "Guardian Forces".
-Junctioning system is established. Some GFs remain to be discovered by man later, and Ramuh, the leader of the GFs, is never found until the next FF era.

Pre FF6:

-Espers are given Magicite form when they die.
-Magic is given to Espers, who are the only ones that can teach magic, except for those that have been infused with stolen magic.
-War of the Magi occurs, and Espers flee to their own world.

Pre FF10:

-Espers are called Aeons and exist due to the Fayth or rather, the spirits of the deceased.
-The job system exists here.

Pre FF7:

-Espers give up their magical rights, and some give magical ability only to the Cetra (Ancients). The rest let their magic flow out of them- and their spirits, too- and form Mako, which eventually crystalizes and hardens to form Materia. Espers, now called Summons, lose their Magicite form
-Humans learn how to use magic from Materia.

That's just my half-assed unbelievable theory mixed up a little with a few tweaks.:mad:

I know.

So anyone find that Sakaguchi interview?