You Elitist Bastards!

This is for anime fans mostly...

What's up with this whole "the Japanese version is better!" sentiments. I have several acquaintences that insist on only watching stuff in subtitled format cause the japanese version is always superior in their minds. I watch both sub and dub and like both and feel the quality of the voices ranges in both. I like some shows dubbed (Fruit Baskets, YuYu Hakusho, and Irresponsible Captain Tylor) and I like some shows better in the original (Cardcaptor Sakura, X/1999, and One Piece) and some shows really don't matter cause both versions are equally good (Cowboy Bebop)

But still people insist that the Japanese version is always superior:mad: Do you have any idea what it's like watchinG Furuba in Japanese where half the cast squeak and sound like they were all done by the same VA just cause your friend refuses to watch it otherwise?

Hell I can't even play video games with these people. I was showing FFXII to a friend and his girlfriend (a mutual friend actually and she's a purist when it comes to japanese voices) she heard a few lines from the game, said it was horrible, and automatically assumed it would have been superior in it's original Japanese format which got her on her rant about how bad english VA are and how the Japanese version is always superior:rolleyes2

So tell me... what makes one version superior to the other? I feel it varies and neither is actually superior to the other. I don't assume one will always be better than the other. I know alot of it has to do with watching the series before it gets translated. I watched most of Naruto before it got dubbed and though I still prefer the Japanese cause I'm use to it, I recognize that the dubbed version is actually pretty good.

The self-proclaimed American "otaku" crowd will prefer the Japanese versions of Japanese media every time because:

A) It's cooler to like the Japanese version.
B) They don't understand Japanese, so they can't tell if the VA is bad or not.

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Originally Posted by Necronopticous

B) They don't understand Japanese, so they can't tell if the VA is bad or not.

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QFT!!!


Some shows are better in Japanese because the English translation is just goofy (One Piece?) but some are excellent!

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Originally Posted by Necronopticous

The self-proclaimed American "otaku" crowd will prefer the Japanese versions of Japanese media every time because:

A) It's cooler to like the Japanese version.
B) They don't understand Japanese, so they can't tell if the VA is bad or not.

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QFMFT

well the only animes i've watchted or am watching are naruto, crono crusade and susuka

The reason why I like the japanese version more is because i got used to them. the only reason I dislike dubs are because they leave stuff out.

for example.

sonic X, season 3 ending.

the part where tails needs to fire the big baddass gun to destroy a planet. but the problem is cosmo is on the planet so he cant fire the dammed thing. or atleast in the end he does but after a lot of tears and doubts.

the didnt put this scene in the dub. wich is something I detest. It was a great scene it should have been in it. but instead they leave it out because it implies death wich in the mind of the dubbers isnt something kids can handle.


now for the voice acting thing, its more the problem that we atach (sp?) the voice to a character and if we here it in an other language its a complete different voice wich is annoying to hear (look at krillin in the dub he had like 3 different voice overs and dont tell me you didnt find that anoying.)


bottom line. I have nothing against dubs as long as they leave the eps the way they are.

I prefer the subbed version just because I like watching it in its original form. It's a Japanese show, so I just prefer the Japanese voice acting. Other than that I'm not really fussed, although in some cases I've seen that the original Japanese voice will suit a character much more than the dubbed voice. (One that stands out is Mugen from Samurai Champloo, I thought the original perfectly suited his personality and style but the dubbed version was way off.)

Cowboy Bebop has a very good english dub, however.

I admit that I prefer to watch most anime with subs. The the voices are interesting to hear, and for me tend to reflect vocally what the character is doing physically. Movement and stature are a part of culture, and this is reflected in art and animation. I feel that often, American/English voice actors sound like they're trying to hard.

Additionally, more removal of content takes place in a dub than a sub. For example, in the show Beck, a central trait of the main character is the fact that he speaks english very poorly. Because they obviously can't demonstrate that while he's speaking English, they just write that part out of the show, and it alters the storyline in certain episodes.

Of course there are exceptions to this. I like the dubbed version of Cowboy Bebop and Tenchi Muyo. And I do think American video game voice actors are better than what I've heard of their Japanese counterparts. I think your friend just has a stick in her butt.

The Ghost in the Shell dubbed voices sound just like the original to me. At least for the Major and the other main characters

I dont think it's the fact that it's japanese rather the fact that it's the original.
It's like a remix or cover of a song, it may be nice to listen to but in the end the original is the most appealing.
But I always like the Chinese dub better than any of them if there ever is one :D

lohl voice actors trying to hard...i like harding as much as possible.

lohl typos

also, anime sucks. the fact that someone likes dubs or subs seems immaterial when i think like that. a lot of animes nowadays (coming from limited experience here) seem to have pretty damned good voice actors, some of them even famous in hollywood. i think that since this form of entertainment has become so popular that we see the translated versions are becoming more high quality than...oh i don't know...the old 3X3 eyes translations which were my first animes.

I like a good healthy mix. It mostly depends on what language i see/hear the anime in first, though I tend to favour the japanese, just because they usually seem to 'get' the characters more. Saying that there are a few animes i have on dvd which I love the english dubs for - gungrave, ghost in the shell, elfen lied, and the ghibli films for example.

But it all comes down to personal taste. However i still get irritated by those who are so close-minded that they cant accept people enjoying a different version to them. When they just take it for granted that the japanese version would be better, it really burns my brain.

*just remembered a note on my life-to-do-list... must learn japanese.....*

For me, it's not just anime. I prefer to watch any foreign film in it's original format with subtitles. To do it any other way doesn't make any sense to me. By the time it's available dubbed, I've more than likely already seen it subtitled and have the original voices attached to the characters, so I can't possibly take the dub seriously. It almost seems like a parody.

I will say that English dubs fail 99% of the time when it comes to comedy. It's probably just because I don't fully understand Japanese, but the standard hyper anime style comedy sounds ridiculous when shouted in English.

I can either, personally. I'd prefer it in English cause I can understand it. I'll take subs in place of Dubs like Cardcaptors and One Peice, but mainly cause they really, really messed up. For one thing it's Cardcaptor Sakura, staring Sakura not the boy. At least One Peice got picked up by a another company so it'll be better to watch.

Tenchi Muyo is the best way to do it. Even the censored Toonami version isn't bad. They even dubbed the songs, which is really hard.

Originals are always better, be they English, Japanese, German, French or whatsoever. And then, listening to different languages on a regular basis ensures that you don't forget them as quickly (~5 years) as you learned them (providing you know those languages).

On the behalf of anime in particular, I think the Japanese female actors just sound more appealing then the English ones. This is, of course, absolutely subjective and is my personal quirk. But then my girlfriend is Japanese, so I could understand why.:)

The Japanese voices usually just sound better, an fit the characters better. So I prefer Japanese with subtitles. An I hate it when they get celebritys to do the voices. Their not looking for people's voices that fit the character, they're just hoping the celebrity voices will attract a wider audience, which is pathetic.

I think the Japanese voices tend to fit into the anime better, and English voices... I don't know. They seem to stick out, but that may just be me.

Sure, there are some voices that I think the English version did better, but I like watching shows in Japanese with subs because of some jokes on languages that don't really make it into the English version. For example, a character speaking in English rather than Japanese for whatever odd reason.

Because The English Dubb is on a usual basis "tainted" with funimation awful-ness.

ALSO KNOWN AS! HARU-JUTSU! BELIEVE IT!

Being absolutist like the people mentioned in the original post is certainly not good, but in most situations I do prefer the subtitles.

Subtitles, as they don't need to synch to lip movement, can remain truer to the original script, which I definitely appreciate. Then there are matters such as the aforementioned Beck, that would be extremely difficult to dub.

Also, American voice actors in anime were (and to some degree still are) generally not as good as the Japanese voice actors. This isn't because Japan has better voice actors, but is instead because of the budget involved in bringing anime over. While it's more popular now, there aren't a whole lot of talented voices who work in the American anime industry right now, and it shows. Some anime do have good dubs, but it's often pretty hit-or-miss.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

This is for anime fans mostly...

What's up with this whole "the Japanese version is better!" sentiments. I have several acquaintences that insist on only watching stuff in subtitled format cause the japanese version is always superior in their minds. I watch both sub and dub and like both and feel the quality of the voices ranges in both. I like some shows dubbed (Fruit Baskets, YuYu Hakusho, and Irresponsible Captain Tylor) and I like some shows better in the original (Cardcaptor Sakura, X/1999, and One Piece) and some shows really don't matter cause both versions are equally good (Cowboy Bebop)

But still people insist that the Japanese version is always superior:mad: Do you have any idea what it's like watchinG Furuba in Japanese where half the cast squeak and sound like they were all done by the same VA just cause your friend refuses to watch it otherwise?

Hell I can't even play video games with these people. I was showing FFXII to a friend and his girlfriend (a mutual friend actually and she's a purist when it comes to japanese voices) she heard a few lines from the game, said it was horrible, and automatically assumed it would have been superior in it's original Japanese format which got her on her rant about how bad english VA are and how the Japanese version is always superior:rolleyes2

So tell me... what makes one version superior to the other? I feel it varies and neither is actually superior to the other. I don't assume one will always be better than the other. I know alot of it has to do with watching the series before it gets translated. I watched most of Naruto before it got dubbed and though I still prefer the Japanese cause I'm use to it, I recognize that the dubbed version is actually pretty good.

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I couldn't agree more. Rarely do I prefer one audio over the other, only when the actual content is different. Things like the accidental kiss between Naruto and Sasuke in Naruto being cut out, and the language being toned down. That can get a little annoying in action animes, where in the english version the main character is like "Come on, guys! Let's go kick some butt!" :eep:

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Originally Posted by Necronopticous

The self-proclaimed American "otaku" crowd will prefer the Japanese versions of Japanese media every time because:

A) It's cooler to like the Japanese version.
B) They don't understand Japanese, so they can't tell if the VA is bad or not.

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Well that pretty much sums it up. For me, if I prefer a sub it's because of reason B up thar.

For me its not that i dont like english-dubbed anime...i just prefer to hear the voices as they are intended! I guess im more used to hearing the jap voices anyway (though im not jap)! I prefer some english dubbing in some anime movies...any Hayao Miazaki (sp?) movie has got some pretty good voice acting lol! Psh i dont know its all a matter of preference to me...

But you gotta admit though lol have you seen the dubbing done on Naruto? that just sounds royally awkward lol!

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Originally Posted by riallews

I like a good healthy mix. It mostly depends on what language i see/hear the anime in first, though I tend to favour the japanese, just because they usually seem to 'get' the characters more. Saying that there are a few animes i have on dvd which I love the english dubs for - gungrave, ghost in the shell, elfen lied, and the ghibli films for example.

But it all comes down to personal taste. However i still get irritated by those who are so close-minded that they cant accept people enjoying a different version to them. When they just take it for granted that the japanese version would be better, it really burns my brain.

*just remembered a note on my life-to-do-list... must learn japanese.....*

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Originally Posted by Discord

Originals are always better, be they English, Japanese, German, French or whatsoever. And then, listening to different languages on a regular basis ensures that you don't forget them as quickly (~5 years) as you learned them (providing you know those languages).

On the behalf of anime in particular, I think the Japanese female actors just sound more appealing then the English ones. This is, of course, absolutely subjective and is my personal quirk. But then my girlfriend is Japanese, so I could understand why.:)

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This just reminded me of this:p
So You Want To learn Japanese...

I know a Japanese teacher that hands this out to his class on the first day of class and though it's kinda' mean spirited, those of us who have actually tried to learn the language know that this is pretty accurate.;)

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Originally Posted by Anaisa

The Japanese voices usually just sound better, an fit the characters better. So I prefer Japanese with subtitles. An I hate it when they get celebritys to do the voices. Their not looking for people's voices that fit the character, they're just hoping the celebrity voices will attract a wider audience, which is pathetic.

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Lord I completely agree:rolleyes2 Most real actors don't realize that VA is very different from normal acting. I was worried when Miyazaki got picked up by Disney but I'm actually quite impressed with how they handled the movies so far. Though I still feel Jean Reno should have done the english version of Porco Rosso as well.

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Originally Posted by Behold the Void

Also, American voice actors in anime were (and to some degree still are) generally not as good as the Japanese voice actors. This isn't because Japan has better voice actors, but is instead because of the budget involved in bringing anime over. While it's more popular now, there aren't a whole lot of talented voices who work in the American anime industry right now, and it shows. Some anime do have good dubs, but it's often pretty hit-or-miss.

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This is very true. In the last few years the quality of dubs have really gone up. Geneon and Funimation definetly have a good amount of talent and have grown immensly lately. Japan still has better talent but I think their english counterparts are starting to catch up.

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Originally Posted by *ETERNAL FANTASY*

For me its not that i dont like english-dubbed anime...i just prefer to hear the voices as they are intended! I guess im more used to hearing the jap voices anyway (though im not jap)! I prefer some english dubbing in some anime movies...any Hayao Miazaki (sp?) movie has got some pretty good voice acting lol! Psh i dont know its all a matter of preference to me...

But you gotta admit though lol have you seen the dubbing done on Naruto? that just sounds royally awkward lol!

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I have issues with the english version of Naruto but I understand that it's due to me having watched the series up to the filler in japanese long before it was ever translated. So I'm predisposed to the original voices. I originally hated the english version but I still watch it. Though I'm a bit miffed about certain things being removed, this is due to the "morality police" in my country rather than the english being just bad. (remember they do have uncut videos of the series now in english;) As time passed, I watched the VA's begin to really get to know their characters and the quality is actually pretty good. I still have a few issues I find "troublesome";) but overall, I'm beginning to like the english version.

Hey, you stole my act! :mad2:

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

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Originally Posted by Discord

Originals are always better, be they English, Japanese, German, French or whatsoever. And then, listening to different languages on a regular basis ensures that you don't forget them as quickly (~5 years) as you learned them (providing you know those languages).

On the behalf of anime in particular, I think the Japanese female actors just sound more appealing then the English ones. This is, of course, absolutely subjective and is my personal quirk. But then my girlfriend is Japanese, so I could understand why.:)

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This just reminded me of this:p
So You Want To learn Japanese...

I know a Japanese teacher that hands this out to his class on the first day of class and though it's kinda' mean spirited, those of us who have actually tried to learn the language know that this is pretty accurate.;)

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Hehe, this is pretty hilarious. But accept for the hiragana, katakana and kanji you can very well apply it to any other language/region. Japanese is pretty challenging, but that's the whole beauty of the game.:love:

I'll re-evaluate this quote though, "But then my girlfriend is Japanese, so I could understand why.". I could understand why I like Japanese or, maybe on some deep subconscious level have additional inclination towards, my girlfriend. I didn't mean that I can understand Japanese with perfect fluency or know anything about their culture. Just setting this clear.:p

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Originally Posted by Captain Maxx Power

Hey, you stole my act! :mad2:

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How so?

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Originally Posted by Discord

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

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Originally Posted by Discord

Originals are always better, be they English, Japanese, German, French or whatsoever. And then, listening to different languages on a regular basis ensures that you don't forget them as quickly (~5 years) as you learned them (providing you know those languages).

On the behalf of anime in particular, I think the Japanese female actors just sound more appealing then the English ones. This is, of course, absolutely subjective and is my personal quirk. But then my girlfriend is Japanese, so I could understand why.:)

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This just reminded me of this:p
So You Want To learn Japanese...

I know a Japanese teacher that hands this out to his class on the first day of class and though it's kinda' mean spirited, those of us who have actually tried to learn the language know that this is pretty accurate.;)

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Hehe, this is pretty hilarious. But accept for the hiragana, katakana and kanji you can very well apply it to any other language/region. Japanese is pretty challenging, but that's the whole beauty of the game.:love:

I'll re-evaluate this quote though, "But then my girlfriend is Japanese, so I could understand why.". I could understand why I like Japanese or, maybe on some deep subconscious level have additional inclination towards, my girlfriend. I didn't mean that I can understand Japanese with perfect fluency or know anything about their culture. Just setting this clear.:p

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I just posted it cause the comment reminded me of it not because I thought you were saying you knew japanese cause you had a japanese girlfriend. ;)

Honestly, the hardest thing about learning the language is just unlearning things you already know... oh and the fact their are like a dozen different ways to count objects numerically and you need to actually know them as the words changed depending upon what object you are counting...:mad:

I think it depends on what company does it. I have thought that Bandai has done a fairly good job of dubbing shows(from what I have seen). Other companies are still young and upcoming and they continue to get better.

I can watch either as long as I think the voice acting is good. Ghost in the Shell, .hack, Cowboy Bebop and some others all have good voice actors that fit the characters.

I also usually watch subtitled stuff because it comes out on the internet first and free :D

haha!I love that essay! If anything its made me want to learn it more lol. Learning japanese is a thought that got stuck in my head when i was a teenager. It hasn't left since, and it was the reason I got into anime in the first place. Wonder if I'll ever actually do it... bleh. itll probably stay on my to-do list till im too old to care :P

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

I just posted it cause the comment reminded me of it not because I thought you were saying you knew japanese cause you had a japanese girlfriend. ;)

Honestly, the hardest thing about learning the language is just unlearning things you already know... oh and the fact their are like a dozen different ways to count objects numerically and you need to actually know them as the words changed depending upon what object you are counting...:mad:

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I know. Just making sure.:tongue:

Meh, it is interesting that they name the days of the month, but to be blunt with you, can there really be anything worse than the conjugation of the French verbs?:tumble:

I think some people are just more or less inclined to certain languages. So far, I'm finding Japanese being of a more or less average difficulty (language nr. 7 for me:screwy:). The Hiragana and Katakana aren't particularly difficult and the Kanji just need long hours of practice. The grammar is also a little different, but there are few things that can scare you after German indirect speech. It's really quite okay. Now learning French... uh... I hated it from the very beginning all the way to the final examination. I'm just glad it's over now.

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Originally Posted by riallews

haha!I love that essay! If anything its made me want to learn it more lol. Learning japanese is a thought that got stuck in my head when i was a teenager. It hasn't left since, and it was the reason I got into anime in the first place. Wonder if I'll ever actually do it... bleh. itll probably stay on my to-do list till im too old to care :P

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You really only need four things. A book, a dictionary, a set of CDs to listen too and a flatrate DSL connection to download the anime.:p

I retain languages far better than I thought I would since I rarely had an interest in them in HS (though it was mostly due to having only one choice: Spanish)

I can still follow conversations in spanish and japanese pretty well but I still have difficulty speaking naturally and not sounding like I'm a gaijin (I still have difficuluties remembering vocab and proper grammar, on the other hand my pronunciation is flawless.:) )

To those who haven't... learn another language. It's incredibly insightful. I need to get back to my japanese courses and I need to start work on learning my russian again. I should probably try to learn spanish properly since that language is actually relevant to where I am.

Wow 7 languages Discord ?!? That is amazing!

My sister speaks 6 :) I'm the "klutz" of the family, speaking only 3 :(

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Originally Posted by Tavrobel

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Originally Posted by Necronopticous

The self-proclaimed American "otaku" crowd will prefer the Japanese versions of Japanese media every time because:

A) It's cooler to like the Japanese version.
B) They don't understand Japanese, so they can't tell if the VA is bad or not.

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QFMFT

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Quoted for smurfing GOEING
QFFG

I didn't realize this was an anime thread.

When I'm watching anime on DVDs, I'd watch it subbed. However, if I'm not just watching anime (i.e. cleaning room, web surfing, DS-ing) I'd switch over to the dub. That way I can do other things and still follow what's going on. If I'm watching something for the first time I normally wouldn't do this, but if it's something I'd seen before it happens more often.

In many cases, the Japanese version 'feels' better. Aside from the elitism and the language barrier, the stuff is Made In Japan. The voice actors are directly influenced by the Director of the show who moulds their performances to fit with his vision. Sometimes a character is designed to perfectly fit with a particular actor. Anime is serious business in Japan.

In the US, Anime is definitely a bigger deal than it was several years ago. The Dub Directors and the actors themselves seem to be doing a better job of getting in tune with the show, the characters and the emotions involved. Some things will inevitably get lost in translation--especially for TV broadcasts--due to cultural differences and TV censorship. So most of the time, watching a dub (especially on TV) will be an altered experience.

I haven't come across any truly horrendous dubs, other than the kids' stuff that 4kids pumps out. I don't watch much anime on TV (since most of it is uninteresting kids' stuff) and I tend to only buy the best of the best anime that I've seen before. The stuff I buy usually gets the dub treatment it deserves.

One anomaly I've found is in Anime that are based in different countries. The case I'll be using is Gankutsuou: The Count of Monte Cristo (one of my top favourites...watch it!) which is mainly set in France. So, all of the characters have French names. When the Japanese pronounce words that are not Japanese, it tends to sound awkward and overpronounced due to the phonetic setup of their language. (For example: DBZ's Trunks is To-RA-n-ku-Su. The main character of Gankutsuou is Albert, pronounced Al-BEAR in Eng/French, A-ru-BE-ru in Japanese). This is one area where the English dubs can surpass the 'originals' since it will flow better, as English/European phonetics are more flexible than Japanese is.

While I'm not of the Subs Purists who would spit on a dub, I'm all for anime (and games for that matter) coming out in the US *without* a dub. They would get here a lot faster and cheaper for the companies. Sucks for US voice actors, but I want my stuff quickly.

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Originally Posted by Renmiri

Wow 7 languages Discord ?!? That is amazing!

My sister speaks 6 :) I'm the "klutz" of the family, speaking only 3 :(

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Heh, 3 are more than enough. I know very, very few people who know more than 3 on a fluent basis myself, while having studied at an linguistics orientated school where most people were half something half something else.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

I retain languages far better than I thought I would since I rarely had an interest in them in HS (though it was mostly due to having only one choice: Spanish)

I can still follow conversations in spanish and japanese pretty well but I still have difficulty speaking naturally and not sounding like I'm a gaijin (I still have difficuluties remembering vocab and proper grammar, on the other hand my pronunciation is flawless.:) )

To those who haven't... learn another language. It's incredibly insightful. I need to get back to my japanese courses and I need to start work on learning my russian again. I should probably try to learn spanish properly since that language is actually relevant to where I am.

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I sense a common spirit.:tongue:

Russian is pretty hardcore, IMO. I still have difficulties with the endings of the adjectives.

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[...]Some things will inevitably get lost in translation--especially for TV broadcasts--due to cultural differences and TV censorship.[...]

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That really made me wonder what Elfen Lied would look like if you removed nudity and graphic violence.