Batman Returns or Superman Returns?

Which movie do you prefer Batman Returns or Superman Returns? I prefer Batman Returns because of the childhood attachment I have with that film...I was one of the few children who didn't cry after having seen Batman Returns.

I just saw Superman Returns tonight on Cinemax and I thought it was kind of boring I kept changing the channel back and forth between Superman Returns and Batman Begins...By the way I thought the concept of Superman leaving Earth for five years was kind of ridiculous because of the cover up excuse.

I mean who the hell goes on a vacation for five years just to do a little "soul searching?":confused:

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Originally Posted by John_912

I mean who the hell goes on a vacation for five years just to do a little "soul searching?":confused:

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More people than you'd probably think.

I prefer Superman Returns. I thought it was a great movie and a wonderful extension of what Richard Donner originally did with the first two movies. On the other hand, I hate Batman Returns as much as I hate the first Batman movie. They were campy to a degree that is hard for me to watch now, and I still maintain that Tim Burton had no grasp on what the characters are supposed to be at all. I was watching it on TV with some friends a few weeks ago and we had to change the channel. It was too stupid a movie for us to enjoy, but not quite stupid enough to laugh at the whole time.

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Originally Posted by Vivi22

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Originally Posted by John_912

I mean who the hell goes on a vacation for five years just to do a little "soul searching?":confused:

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More people than you'd probably think.

I prefer Superman Returns. I thought it was a great movie and a wonderful extension of what Richard Donner originally did with the first two movies. On the other hand, I hate Batman Returns as much as I hate the first Batman movie. They were campy to a degree that is hard for me to watch now, and I still maintain that Tim Burton had no grasp on what the characters are supposed to be at all. I was watching it on TV with some friends a few weeks ago and we had to change the channel. It was too stupid a movie for us to enjoy, but not quite stupid enough to laugh at the whole time.

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In the defense of Batman Returns at least Tim Burton paid homage to The Dark Knight Returns, by naming his second Batman film Batman RETURNS and by having that scene where Bruce is sitting in the study alone in the dark, when he sees the bat signal.

(I know he's supposed to see a bat flying through the window but because this film isn't a direct translation of The Dark Knight Returns, the bat signal is the next best thing.)

Both films have their pros and cons.

Batman Returns is surprisingly dark and macabre, almost too much for my taste (I still shiver during the scene where Catwoman tears all those stuffed toys and...), but despite the dark atmosphere the actors do a goos job (special mention goes to Christopher Walken as Max Shreck; he really brought this character alive), and the storyline has some interesting stuff going on (it's interesting how Burton showed the Penguin as a tragic villain, and the Batman & Catwoman noir love stuff is good too). Danny Elfman's score isn't quite as good as in the previous film, but it works well in some scenes. Still, something just doesn't work in this film to truly elevate it to the level of the first Batman film, and it's somewhat hard to pinpoint what it actually is: maybe it's just the sum of all the parts and they probably don't just form a whole which is cohesive enough.

Superman Returns is more of a drama piece than an action flick, and I appreciated that kind of approach. The premise is rather interesting (how people have "forgotten" Superman and moved on in their lives), but it's sad that that particular plot line is kind of pushed aside too early when Superman comes to the rescue in the first half of the film. I would've wanted to see the movie getting deeper into the fact how Superman would deal with the world which has moved on, but it's fortunate that at least some of this stuff was shown. The actors do a commendable job (kudos to Kevin Spacey who really nailed the role as Lex Luthor while also staying mostly true to Gene Hackman's interpretation of the character). The "son" plot was quite touching at times (particularly in the end when (SPOILER)Superman recites his father's words to the boy who is sleeping, which is a great symbolic scene), and overall there were some great scenes which didn't rely on action (e.g. Superman floating over the world while he remembers his father's words, Superman's sacrifice).

The drama bit didn't really bother me, because it was well paced (although it was noticeable that some scenes were cut), and the action scenes were quite breathtaking at times (the crashing plane, saving the world). Maybe the film would've needed a bit more action as well as a more definite showdown between Luthor and Superman (hard as that might have been to portray properly), but overall the film worked and managed to establish a continuity to the first two Superman films and thus preserve Donner's vision. I was also glad to hear how John Ottman's score was a surprisingly good tribute to John Williams's original score, and Ottman managed to create some great new themes too. The score wasn't maybe as complex as Williams's original, but it was a very good effort from Ottman and certainly worked wonders in the film.

So, with all this in mind, I guess Superman Returns as a whole is a better film than Batman Returns, although the latter certainly has its moments too. :)

I heard that Bryan Singer never revealed the reason why Lois published the article entitled "Why The World Doesn't Need Superman." is this true? When I saw Superman Returns last night, I didn't see the whole thing because I got bored then I decided to turn the tv off and go to sleep.

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Originally Posted by John_912

I heard that Bryan Singer never revealed the reason why Lois published the article entitled "Why The World Doesn't Need Superman." is this true? When I saw Superman Returns last night, I didn't see the whole thing because I got bored then I decided to turn the tv off and go to sleep.

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It's never said outright, but it's obvious in the movie that she was hurt by the fact that Superman would leave without saying anything at all to her. A woman scorned as they say. :)

As for the part about just ditching the world getting along without Superman aspect of the story, I suppose I was kind of dissapointed by that at first, but I think the look at how Lois got on without him and Superman trying to deal with that is far more interesting and important, and might have made a look at how the world coped a little redundant. I suppose you could say we see enough of it through Lois.

Between these two, Superman Returns, but I like Batman Begins better than either.

I actually really liked the new Superman. I wasn't bored at all. If it was a big string of excuses for action scenes, it would just be X-Men 3 all over again. I thought it was done with style and charm ;O

Batman Returns will always have a special place in my heart. I dig that movie.

When I was a kid my favorite scene in Batman Returns was when Batman escaped that roof top by using his bat glider...Another scene that I liked was when the Batmobile transformed into a compact car so it could go through that narrow alley.

Batman Returns is one of my favourite movies! Tim Burton did a great job, especially in art direction. *sigh* it was when Gotham looked its best!

I still don't freaking see how he could lift an island of kryptonite by just spending a few minutes in the sun.

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Originally Posted by Gopher Gamble

I still don't freaking see how he could lift an island of kryptonite by just spending a few minutes in the sun.

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Well I remember watching an episode of Superman: The Animated Series and they said that Superman's power is derived from the rays of the yellow sun...later on in the same episode the sun's color was changed from yellow to red and Superman lost his powers for a while.

Batman Returns is the best super hero movie period!

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Originally Posted by John_912

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Originally Posted by Gopher Gamble

I still don't freaking see how he could lift an island of kryptonite by just spending a few minutes in the sun.

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Well I remember watching an episode of Superman: The Animated Series and they said that Superman's power is derived from the rays of the yellow sun...later on in the same episode the sun's color was changed from yellow to red and Superman lost his powers for a while.

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Right but it doesn't seem like that would be enough to lift an island of the one element that makes him powerless.But then he can tunnel straight through the planet and not loose his powers after that time.

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Originally Posted by Gopher Gamble

Right but it doesn't seem like that would be enough to lift an island of the one element that makes him powerless.But then he can tunnel straight through the planet and not loose his powers after that time.

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Well I guess Bryan Singer didn't have any grasp over the title character...still that's not as absurd as Superman altering the space/time continuum.

i hated both movies. yes, tim burton made batman dark. yes people like that. yes it's so dark to me it's as comical as the batman show from the sixties.

as for superman, i know they felt the need to get away from the old storyline, but the division of plots seems kind of strange. where did the storyline come away from the original movies? superman 2 or 3? there was some cool stuff in there, but i don't see the need to rehash all these comics now that there are good enough special effects but no good writers.

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Originally Posted by Dyslexicon

I hate both movies. Yes, Tim Burton made batman dark. Yes people like that. Yes it's so dark to me it's as comical as the batman show from the sixties.

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At least Tim Burton didn't make Batman gay, there's no rubber nipples or neon lights in Batman & Batman Returns.

this is true, but we're not talking about THOSE fiascos, are we.

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Originally Posted by Dyslexicon

This is true, but we're not talking about THOSE fiascos, are we.

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I know I was just trying to defend Batman Returns because it was a part of my childhood, but I guess there's not a lot of good things that you can say about it...Because it's one of those films where you either like it or hate it.

it's part of my childhood too, a part i didn't enjoy. it's cool if people did and i can definitely see its appeal to many people, but i much prefered the animated series

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Originally Posted by Dyslexicon

It's part of my childhood too, a part i didn't enjoy. It's cool if people did and i can definitely see its appeal to many people, but i much prefered the animated series.

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You know if Tim Burton hadn't created his rendition of Batman I don't think we would've had Batman: The Animated Series...because I read an article that said TAS creator Bruce Timm was inspired by the 1989 blockbuster.

So if the first Batman film was released in the new millennium and if it was directed by Chris Nolan we probaby would've had The Batman animated series instead because Nolan probaby would've been secretive about his script.

ah i see. well that would suck.. i still prefer it.

also i've never seen 'the batman'

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Originally Posted by John_912

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Originally Posted by Gopher Gamble

Right but it doesn't seem like that would be enough to lift an island of the one element that makes him powerless.But then he can tunnel straight through the planet and not loose his powers after that time.

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Well I guess Bryan Singer didn't have any grasp over the title character...

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Um, no. Not every writer has portrayed Superman as being instantly weakened by Kryptonite. This is obviously the case in Superman Returns where it seems to take time for his body to absorb enough radiation from the Kryptonite to really weaken him. Also, it's pretty obvious that he picked up a rather thick chunk of the Earths crust beneath the Kryptonite island rather than the island itself. It's not exactly a huge stretch to believe that a thick chunk of earth won't provide some protection from the radiation. It wasn't until the island started growing down through it that lifting it became difficult for him, by which point he had already gotten it moving enough to get it away from the Earth.

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Originally Posted by Dyslexicon

Ah I see. Well that would suck... I still prefer it.

Also i've never seen 'The Batman'

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Why don't you watch an episode of The Batman on Youtube and see for yourself? But I'm warning you it's pretty bad...I mean I've seen some awful cartoons before but "The Batman" takes the cake.

By the way does anybody else miss the Tim Burton Batmobile or am I the only one?

Superman Returns was boring.

Batman Returns was fantastic.