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Does anyone know the point in Sephiroth being in the film? He died in the game. But when he came back in AC it didn't seem like he was even killed this time. He vanished with a smile on his face and said that he won't be just a memory. Does this mean that he will be coming back? I mean he was beaten a lot worse in the game and he still came back so whats to say that he's finally gone? So does this also mean that Square will be making more sequels? O_o; They should hurry up and kill him off.
sephys never gone!
he origanlly died in the lifestream right! which means hes never gonna be gone!
like jenova!
...and stuff!
They should have finished it after the original game :rolleyes2
Thats what i dont like about VII, all they do is change the story every 2 secs and make up coincidental occurences (like sephy not dieing...and him randomly mutating in the game)
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Originally Posted by I Don't Need A Name
Let's face it: Sephiroth is Final Fantasy VII. :rolleyes2
Weren't all the sephiroth clones supposed to look like him, but they all fell short? I mean the sephiroth you know for the first bit of the game isn't even sephiroth. He was just a clone that Hojo made with a lady's unborn baby and some jenova cells.
So I think it stands to pretty good reason that if Kadaj got ahold of some jevona cells they could instantly mutate him into a grown sephiroth, since he's already grown. Or maybe it just makes a shell. What do I know!
No the sephy at the start of the game is a part of Jenova disguised as him, making it's way to the reunion. The real Sephiroth IS the child of Hojo and Lucrecia with Jenova cells injected into him.
And he didn't DIE in the lifestream. He was just frozen. If he was dead he couldn't summon Meteor and you wouldn't fight him at the end.
As far as we were concerned Sephy was dead. Now Advent Children tells us that He'll never be dead. Do you not see that all Square are doing is giving themselves more to work with in the story so they can milk it even more? They actually said that the compilation will go on for about another 10 years.
Why was Sephiroth in the movie? Two words: fan service.
But yeah, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they make more sequels and try and milk the FF7 fanbase for all its worth. Although, I think it's the FF13 compilation that's supposed to last 10 years. Which is pretty arrogant when they don't even know how the first one's going to be received yet, but that's another rant entirely...
im sure there would be alot of complaining had he not been in the movie:rolleyes2
Took the words right outta my mouth. Or fingers, so be more precise.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lachrymosa
I like to pretend there is no such thing as AC.
Hey i never thought about it before, but it doesn't make sense!
Naw I also heard it about FFVII. They said the compilation of FFVII is a $50,000,000 project and FFXIII will be a $100,000,000 project, which does NOT sound pleasing. If they are going to make films for it, it better be like a trilogy or something instead of cramming a bad plot into an hour and 20 mins like AC.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lachrymosa
I mean Ashley Schovitz is right. It just doesn't make sense lol. I do love it though hehe
sephiroth in AC made some sense. kadaj and the others didnt really. they were remnats who seemed to have appeared out of nowhere. none the less they are seen as part of sephy. so mix some jenova cells with a party of him and jenovas ability to change shapes brings back sephiroth. maybe it wasnt the real sephiroth but it was jenova and a remnant taking the shape of sephiroth and haveing the mind and power of sephiroth.
so idk you can try and make sense of it.
i think the sephiroth in the movie wasnt sephiroth... just another cloned replica, like in the begining of the game. it didnt make much sense for him coming back through kadaj cause it wasnt him, it was a clone. kadaj was the host and the jenova cells that he engulphed made sephiroth's entity take over, the mind and looks of kadaj... to become the same type of clone in the begining of the game. but what didnt make sense was the fact that he got his clothes and his sword when he got cloned.
make a sequel......and have sephiroth return once again.
I also remember them saying somthing like "We don't want the PS3 too do too well, so we'll put some games on the Wii aswell". Honest, i think they posted it on the News page.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lachrymosa
Anyway, i also agree with the Sepiroth returning because of Fan Service thing, but on the other hand, i'm a fan, so make another sequal. I want Yazoo and Loz to survive and cause some trouble. And i want someone to die, anyone notcied nobody died (as far as i can remember, and i have to memory of a goldfish, so sorry if i missed somone obvious) in the film. The story didn't really move on at all.
Since Kadaj, Yazoo and Loz are all incomplete fragments of Sephiroth's spirit, it kinda makes sense for him to be reborn when Kadaj absorbed Jenova's cells. Spirit + flesh = person, after all. It's not made clear that the new trio are actually Sephiroth's spirit incarnate; it's hinted at, which I feel is a weakness of the film as it's easily overlooked or misunderstood. However, there's enough evidence from the dialogue and events to support it, not least of all that the trio are 'remnants" (i.e. leftover, remains) of Sephiroth, or avatars in the direct translation of the Japanese script. Of course, that falls kind of flat among western audiences, most of whom don't know the original meaning of 'avatar'.Nothing random about that at all. Mutation was always one of Jenova's powers - the ability to modify or completely transform living things. Sephiroth was gaining immense power in the game, and he changed to reflect that.Quote:
...and him randomly mutating in the game
I don't think he will, at least not overtly. Sure he said he'll "never be a memory", but he also had a cocky look on his face when he pulled Cloud into that final spiritual battle in the original game. That happened after he'd already been beaten twice, but he still had a smile on his face until he got taken down for the last time. His final words in AC sounded pained yet belligerently defiant, rather than happy. Considering the secret ending of Dirge of Cerberus, and the revelations that are bound to come up in Crisis Core, I think it's fairly evident who the antagonist is going to be in the continuation/conclusion of FFVII...Quote:
Does this mean that he will be coming back?
*Edit*
In answer to the original question of the thread, "why was Sephiroth there"... AC is about wrapping up Cloud's story - the two main threads being the lingering guilt he feels about the harm he caused, which is primarily centered around Sephiroth and Aerith. It's about him being forced to confront and overcome his past so he can move on.
And on a less wanky note, it is indeed about fanservice. The original 'short film' draft of AC didn't include Sephiroth; he only showed up when they expanded it into a full-length movie. An essential part of the 'reunion' of the game's characters, and a key aspect of Cloud's story.
I just hate the way that us gamers are meant to guess at every occurrence in Final Fantasy VII, but in the other installments everything is cleared and covered with terms of the death of the main protagonist!
Just let the goddamn guy die and rest, we all know he's sick of reappearing and getting his ass licked by Cloud! I mean kissed...sorry, kicked...
I hope for Square's sake that FFXIII is awesome...I mean it looks awesome, but if it's not, they're in serious trouble...
Aaaaanywayz, it's so he can come back in Kingdom Hearts :O
...but that's silly, I mean Aeris is there, and FFX-2 SpoilerTidus is there, and KH1 was made before plans of a FFX-2.
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Originally Posted by Big D
And AC is a great movie. The problem is that if you want to understand the story, you have to... Play FFVII, read all the stories of "On a Way to a Smile", and read the Reunion Files. lol
Kadaj sees it coming from the beginning... just doesn't know why or who... and it's kind of been mentioned in this thread already as to ~~why~~Quote:
Originally Posted by I Don't Need A Name
Reunion Files... I don't believe I've heard of those before. Do tell:DQuote:
Originally Posted by The Crystal
The Reunion Files is a book released by SE that explain everything about AC. It's like the UOG of AC.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big D
Many things we know about the movie(like Kadaj and his gang being spirit bodies with Sephiroth's will), is because of what it's explained in the book.
And it's strange that you talked about this(Kadaj and the others being spirit bodies), but don't know what the Reunion Files is. :confused:
The movie gives enough clues and hints - the trio's obvious connection to Sephiroth and their desire to 'become whole again' by reuniting with Jenova's cells and bringing Sephiroth back, and so forth. It's also made quite clear that those fellows are manifest spirits, rather than 'real' people, when they absorb materia, and are completely dissipated by the healing rain at the end. Basically, a lot of things only truly make sense if you assume that Kadaj et al are incomplete remnants (another major hint) of Sephiroth.
Reading all the speculation and discussion around the forum was helpful, too.
Hmm I never thought of the possibility of him being the fake Sephiroth at the start of the game...I like that one. And some of your points too Big D - great stuff.
FF VII without Sephiroth is like Jaws without the shark. The one thing that bothered me was the fact that he basically came into the game to have a fight and lose. This is an awful waste of a great character. I think if he'd come into the movie earlier and done some terrible things to Midgar and it's people it would've been a much better movie. And it would've made the stakes higher when Cloud and Sephiroth finally face off.
Fine point there. However, I like that AC had a low death toll. The heroes actually managed to save everyone, or nearly everyone - compared to the grim and devastating loss of life in FFVII and the utterly wanton slaughter of innocents in DoC. The people of the world deserved a break, in my opinion:)Quote:
Originally Posted by sephireland
But he did. Geostigma and the three "brothers" existed only because of him. He was fuc*ing the entire world(killing people and corrupting the Lifestream) during 2 years. This is very clear in his dialogue with Cloud in the begin of the fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by sephireland
And Midgar is a destroyed and desert city after the events of FFVII. He couldn't do some terrible things to the people of Midgar, because no one lives in Midgar anymore.
I'm guessing he was referring to the former citizens of Midgar - those who now reside in Edge, which is more-or-less an extension of the old city...Quote:
Originally Posted by The Crystal
You're not wrong but my point is it just feels like Sephiroth was tagged on at the end. He should've been a HUGE part of the movie (he's on the freakin cover). A shame.Quote:
Originally Posted by The CrystalBut he did. Geostigma and the three "brothers" existed only because of him. He was fuc*ing the entire world(killing people and corrupting the Lifestream) during 2 years. This is very clear in his dialogue with Cloud in the begin of the fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by sephireland
And Midgar is a destroyed and desert city after the events of FFVII. He couldn't do some terrible things to the people of Midgar, because no one lives in Midgar anymore.
If he'dQuote:
Originally Posted by sephireland
been the main antagonist through the whole movie, though, a lot of viewers would've complained that it was too similar to the game - the same main villain being chased by the same heroes, with the same objectives on both sides. By keeping Sephiroth in the background, like a lurking presence, AC had an extra bit of mystery.
Well I guess that's why I found AC a bit of a disappointment. I think with all that went on in ,and the hugeness of, the FF7 world there's room for a sprawling, epic adventure movie. AC just seemed to scratch the surface.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big DIf he'dQuote:
Originally Posted by sephireland
been the main antagonist through the whole movie, though, a lot of viewers would've complained that it was too similar to the game - the same main villain being chased by the same heroes, with the same objectives on both sides. By keeping Sephiroth in the background, like a lurking presence, AC had an extra bit of mystery.
I agree with you there - after the vastness and depth of the game, there was a lot of material they could've explored; the hard part is condensing that into a two hour movie without making it too jumbled. The endless twists and turns of the game's story almost guaranteed that the film would never rival it in terms of scope...Quote:
Originally Posted by sephireland
The point of Sephiroth being in the film was to fight Cloud for six minutes and make the fanboys happy. It amazes me that people still think that Advent Children was supposed to be something more than a 90 minute fan service. Which I'm not hating on, that's all it should have been.
He came back for this:
Is anyone else feeling like FF is going a bit downhill. *runs away from avid gamers*
This film was good in the aspect it was a film and gave us a new storyline to follow. If you were going to resurrect a character, or say one isn't dead I would've preferred it to have been Aerith, the last of the Ancients.
I always believed until the beginning of this film that although Aerith had died, she protected the planet when the comet came towards earth.
I liked that idea. Because surely it isn't that easy to kill an ancient?
hmmm
Persephone Hermione
Sephiroth is like Naraku from InuYasha or Orochimaru from Naruto, you don't get rid of him . . . ever.
*Chases you* I caught ya. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by persephonehermione
Well, I think there are too many of these prequel/sequel things coming too quickly.
Just give us the damn remake of FF7! I would LOVE that.
& with Advent Children, to be honest, the main reason I enjoyed watching was just to see the characters I had played with for many years as... well more 'real' looking people. The action scenes were great too. & I always get very emotional when Marlene is doing her narration bit at the beginning. However, for me to properly understand what was happening in the movie took quite a lot of explaining & quite of lot of reading threads in this forum. And there are still things I'm a bit confused about, lol.
YOu had to have Sephiroth back. I mean, he's the best bad guy going. I mean, sure, you would think that the cells would have to actually do something more than touch Kadaj "Oh look, that strange box must contain mother!" And, no, they probrably wont make another sequel. I mean, you gotta let it die at some point as much as i would like to see a sequel.
Sephy was necessary to tie up the loose ends created throughout the movie. You can't have remnants running around causing havoc without expecting Sephiroth to show up. Personally I think it would have been more dramatic if he showed up earlier than he did, beat the snot out of cloud, and cloud manages to escape. Maybe have some kind of training montage as was popular in many movies, more stuff happens, he becomes more resolved, and re-confronts Sephy to put him down once and for all
The whole time I was watching AC for the first time though, I was hoping that Sephy would show up to fight cloud, beat cloud, then Kefka would appear out of nowhere, for NO reason, beat up Sephy AND cloud at the same time, then leave and then "The End" rolls down the screen... Just to put the fanboys in their place. Kefka > Sephy, Discuss
*ducks*
Sephiroth is that inner demon you can never overcome but can only postpone.
I disagree. 80mins isn't enough to bring in a new story. Since it was just a fan service movie it would have probably pleased more people to see Sephiroth earlier on and actually make a meaningful presence for himself in the film.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big DIf he'dQuote:
Originally Posted by sephireland
been the main antagonist through the whole movie, though, a lot of viewers would've complained that it was too similar to the game - the same main villain being chased by the same heroes, with the same objectives on both sides. By keeping Sephiroth in the background, like a lurking presence, AC had an extra bit of mystery.
If i'm honest I liked it, It wasn't brilliant though
Best thing was the freakin soundtrack guys!!!
I mean J-E-N-O-V-A On a freakin guitar!!!
only bad thing about the soundtrack was Still More Fighting (Tifa Vs Loz Fight) the Piano turned it into a p*ssy track, the original kicks arse though!
This is what I got from the movie - due to the fact that Hojo's theory in FFVII about the reunion - that as long as at least one cell of Jenova exists she can regenerate herself through a "reunion" - so until Jenova's cells are purged entirely she'll always be able to come back(and sephiroth with her).
thoughts?
am I way off?
Big-D is absolutely right, the movie isn't just a fanservice, it's about finishing Clouds story, his guilt over Aeriths death.