What did you guys think of the ending?
I thought it was really... strange. The way it kept showing Rinoa again... and again.... and again with her face blurred was kinda weird. My brother's theory was that Square likes mucking around with the graphics.
Apart from that, I liked the ending.:D
I assumed the muckiness had something to do with Time Compression, but now that I think about it, you could be right too :p. I really liked everything from the camcorder events and post-credits :jess:
I personally think it's the best ending in a Final Fantasy. I don't know about the whole Rinoa and blurry thing.
I guess don't have to spoiler this because your title suggests to finish the game before reading the thread.
People on this forum tell me I'm wrong and that Squall didn't die. Whatever. I still say he did. They tell me that he was there in the end. I say that was a dream. It had to be with time and place he showed up and the way it all happened. They say her black armband was there the whole game. I checked. It was. But her dress was blue the rest of the game and not black like it was at the end. Besides, if he didn't die, Square's message doesn't work. Or at least my interpretation of it. Besides, my witness agreed with my theory. That being said, I'll tell my opinion.
I liked the ending because it wasn't the type of message you would expect Square to send. Squall was very afraid the whole game to get close to anyone. This was because when you get close to people, you lose them. Rinoa tried so hard to break him and get him close to her. When she finally succeeded, he died. He proved to her that he was right the whole time. And the genius is that Squall wasn't the one to suffer. No. It was Rinoa's fault. She broke him. So, she was the one to suffer. She lost him because she got close to him. You can't get close to someone or you'll lose them. It was genius the way they made Squall right the whole time. I loved it. I know these thoughts aren't organized very well, but I'm too lazy to rearrange them. I'd apologize for that, but I really don't care enough.
I would say the ending was exactly the opposite. Squall was afraid to become close to anyone, and Rinoa tried to break him of that. She didn't break him of his fear until after Rinoa found him, they were brought back to their time, and he woke up in her arms. That whole trippy CG at the end was a representation of Squall's fear; how he had become close to Rinoa, but his fear kept him at arms length. The only thing he could think to save him from time compression was to go to that place that they had promised, but his fear of being alone kept him from that place and brought him to his solitude, at which point he freaks out. The only time that he had possibly not been alone in his life seemed so out of reach that it tampered with his sanity, and he started freaking out, so much so that he drives himself so far away from reality he teeters on life. And then Rinoa finds him. And the one thing that he needed to know where home was was with him, and they return to their time.
I thought the ending was rather well done. Wraps everything up, some funny moments, some touching moments, good stuff. The scene where Laguna proposes to Raine gets me teary-eyes every time I see it. And the home video quality footage was a nice touch.
The part with Laguna was really quite touching, this is the only FF that has ever made me really feel anything at the end because I cared about the characters quite alot.
Yeah, I liked the part with Laguna and Raine. It was very touching.
I liked Selphie's home video-ing too. It showed some relationships between some of characters (like Selphie yelling at Irvine when he turns the camera and waves at some girls in the corner).
And um... The Ceej, I'm pretty sure Rinoa's dress wasn't black in the end. Are you sure you didn't mix her up with Edea?
Maybe Ellone was having problems sending (or as she called it 'connecting') him back to the present. I believe she was responsible for sending the party to fight Ultimecia and were possibly responsible for bringing them back. Thing is Ellone never lived in the time of Ultimecia so you would expect major problems trying to find the return ticket home after the Time Compression. But what some people have said so far makes sense "To go to the place where they promised to meet". Don't exactly know how he's supposed to do that but it's not called Final Fantasy for no reason is it?
Don't make me post my diagram again!
Do it, please!Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Maxx Power
Perhaps it has to do with the way that Ultimecia was able to send herself back in time? It's been a very long time since I have played this game, but wasn't the way they went forward in time by using Dr. Odine's machine? Didn't Ultimecia use that same machine to go back in time? Bah, I'm confused, I can't be bothered thinking about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart's Friend Milhouse
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolivar
I don't know. Did Edea hug Squall in Rinoa's dream? Of course he died. That's the only way to read it that makes any sense at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Acula
ceej that's a really crazy interpretation, but i don't think the ending really agrees with it.i don't know, maybe there's more evidence to this i doubt it though.
Bam!Quote:
Originally Posted by Omecle
^:kaolaugh:
Best. Explanation. Ever.
I don't think Squall is dead. Cause in the end, they show us both Rinoa and Squall kissing each other. So? Is Rinoa kissing with a ghost?
Anyway, I couldn't understand one thing: When Squall exit from nothingless and enter his chilhood times, (you know, Matron and little Squall is playing and suddenly weak Ultimecia tries to pass her power to Matron), how'd she still survives in that time??
she's a sorceress and she needs to pass her powers on before she dies. And she apparently selected the same time period/place as Squall. Look at Captain Maxx Power's diagram. It helps a lot :p
Squall didn't die.
Of course not!!
@atlanteay: Wow, it makes me dizzy. But thanx a lot. ın the ending FMV , I laughed a lot of Zell's sequence when he eating a big chicken (like himslef, chicken wusss:D )
You really should read my post before arguing with it. I've made the point that the end part was a dream like fifty thousand times across this forum, including a dozen or so in this thread alone. Squall died. Get over it. It's the only way the end makes any sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Great Sephiroth
It's called hyperbole. Look it up.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Ceej
Didn't Square confirm he lived when they confirmed Laguna was Squall's father because people kept pestering them about it? Of course, I have no links or proof 'coz I'm lazy, so just assume I'm making it up and move along.
Although, I must say that if Square is comfortable with Rufus surviving a large energy blast to his face that destroyed an entire building, then I'm sure Squall living wouldn't be much of a stretch.
I loved the ending. It was cute :> Hearing Eyes on Me kick in or watching the cam parts during the credits were some crazy good moments for this lad.
The only thing I didn't like was the Seifer bit. Maybe it's because I like tragedies and wanted him to die some grotesque death, not be all Brady Bunch with his pals like nothing ever happened. I'd run him over with the entire Garden, but that's me.
Does the fact that there is so much speculation about what was in the FFVIII ending mean that the ending was really good, or really bad?
j/w
He's alive, I just played through the Ulimacia boss fight (I keep forgetting how good that boss fight really was) and watched the ending again.
So I took into account what you said. I never saw Rinoa in a black dress though. But besides that, I feel you overlooked one minor detail... Granted I can see where you might think he's dead.
In the scene where Rinoa finally finds Squall lying their not moving. She picks him up and his body is unresponsive. Rinoa begins to cry and then the clouds part and the barren land becomes a flower garden. Rinoa stares in awe and then looks back at Squall's face and her expression changes to that of surprise. Then the game switches over to Laguna and so forth. It can easily be interpreted that Squall woke up and that was what surprised her.
Besides, if Squall had died, why continue with all the happy scenes of Laguna reuniting with Ellone, or seeing Seifer and his cronies having a good time? Hell why have a massive party in Balamb Garden with the whole video camera scene? If it was all a dream then what was it's purpose or significance to the plot? If the scenes are real but Squall had died, why would everyone be happy and celebrating in Balamb when the former leader just died? It makes more logical sense that Squall lived and ties better with the Theme of Love (Both Romantic and Self) that the game represented.
Now here's a question. Is Squall's foggy memory due to Time Compression or because of his prolonged exposure to the GFs? It was something I began to think about as I watched the ending again.
They're celebrating because Ultimecia was destroyed and the world was saved. If you noticed, Squall was absent from that home video. I know. I was looking for him because, at first, I didn't want him to be dead. When he showed up at the end, that was the dream. The significance of having him come back for Rinoa's dream is to show the strength of Rinoa's love for him. And if you look at it right, you can say she didn't learn the lesson that Square taught us through Squall's death. If he's alive, then my interpretation doesn't work. Squall's death makes a huge point. Much like Aeris' death, it's intregal to the plot. Squall's death makes the point that I've been trying to say it makes this whole time. That Squall was right. People don't want to believe that because they want to believe that people need the comfort and love of another. They find it hard to accept that Square would send such a dark message. I enjoyed this message, but then, at the time, I was a lot like Squall, and in many ways, I still am. (500 Points For Insane Run-On Bonus.) As much as I like him and want him to be alive, I need him to be dead for the message of the game to work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
I'm sorry for this response. I was late for work, my brother was yapping in my ear about stuff I didn't care about, and I was a little annoyed that someone read part of my post and decided to comment without reading the whole thing. All of those three together made me eager to post what was on my mind at the second and no one on this forum deserved my attitude here. The whole time I was at work, I was thinking about this response and it was rude of me. I'm sorry I was an ass.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Ceej
But there's no evidence that Squall is dead and the final scene was a dream. If Squall had been a dream, don't you think they would have made the scene obvious? Like maybe seeing Squall disappear?
Also, I feel the party is way too happy at the party. If Squall had died, I feel the scene would hae been more somber. I don't think Irvine would have been flirting with every skirt in the room and watching Zell wolf down food. The ending would have required a moment of grief for his passing. The main cast was way too cheerful to allude that someone died. As for Squall not appearing during these scenes, the logical answer based on what we see is that he's on the patio with Rinoa as the ending shows.
Squall is not a "partying" type and even if he has opend up a bit, I doubt that has really dampered his serious and loner attitude to the point of being in the heart of a party. He's the type who would find someplace quiet, drink a glass of wine and congratulate himself on a nice days work.;)
I do like your interpretation (it's quite beautiful actually) but I feel it's wrong nonetheless.
Don't think about it, it very kind if you are apologize...In my country, if someone post like you did, never apologize plus, they make it again and again, I'm surprised when I saw your sorry...Quote:
Originally Posted by The CeejThey're celebrating because Ultimecia was destroyed and the world was saved. If you noticed, Squall was absent from that home video. I know. I was looking for him because, at first, I didn't want him to be dead. When he showed up at the end, that was the dream. The significance of having him come back for Rinoa's dream is to show the strength of Rinoa's love for him. And if you look at it right, you can say she didn't learn the lesson that Square taught us through Squall's death. If he's alive, then my interpretation doesn't work. Squall's death makes a huge point. Much like Aeris' death, it's intregal to the plot. Squall's death makes the point that I've been trying to say it makes this whole time. That Squall was right. People don't want to believe that because they want to believe that people need the comfort and love of another. They find it hard to accept that Square would send such a dark message. I enjoyed this message, but then, at the time, I was a lot like Squall, and in many ways, I still am. (500 Points For Insane Run-On Bonus.) As much as I like him and want him to be alive, I need him to be dead for the message of the game to work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
I'm sorry for this response. I was late for work, my brother was yapping in my ear about stuff I didn't care about, and I was a little annoyed that someone read part of my post and decided to comment without reading the whole thing. All of those three together made me eager to post what was on my mind at the second and no one on this forum deserved my attitude here. The whole time I was at work, I was thinking about this response and it was rude of me. I'm sorry I was an ass.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Ceej
Anyway, I'm still think Squall didn't die. Because the happy end, because all the SeeD very happy. This makes nosense, if Squall was dead, then why Zell is keep eating like a bear with full of joy. Or why are Quistis, Selphie, Irvine; Matron and the others didn't show just a little sorrow? Is this the friendship, that Square always tells in FFs???
I was about to agree with everyone on how Squall lives except that one point that The Ceej mentions, that in the home video Squall is absent. That is so true it's creepy. He's practically their leader in defeating Ultimecia, so why should they exclude him? But maybe I'm just being paranoid.
However, theres a lot of evidence that shows that Squall is still alive, already pointed out in this thread.
Man, it's times like these I wish I could just kidnap the plot designers of FFVIII and interrogate them.
Does anyone notice Rinoa's dog Angelo running towards her general direction during the last home video scene? Just a thought since no one mentioned it. If you want to see it, click here.
(Skip to 2:40)
So pretty much, there are two ways to take the final movie. Either it's all a happy ending, and Squall was wrong the whole time cause he's a loner loser, and he somehow survives the time compression madness.
The other way is that he dies horribly in a compressed world. Rinoa eventually goes crazy or some thing and hangs out in the balcony, then 'imagines' Squall is alive and kisses a ghost. That could maybe explain why she was doing that little finger thing in the home video to nothing. Or maybe it was just blocked by that stupid wall, who knows?
Or a third way is that when she was looking up in the stars, that tiny shooting star she saw, she wished that Squall was alive and, Lookie! He's standing right next to you! (Kidding. That would be a terrible FF ending...)
I can't believe people actually think Squall is dead. Look at the mood of the final FMV, especially the final kiss; it's about as romantic, happy and idyllic as you can possibly get it, music and all. We see Rinoa kissing Squall. Right before we see Selphie pointing towards Rinoa and smiling.
Are you telling me that Selphie was smiling at Rinoa because Squall died and Rinoa had gone so mad with grief that she was actually seeing visions so tangible she can kiss them? Gee, what a happy scene, eh? Are you saying that Selphie, Zell, Irvine and Quistis would be partying like that if Squall was dead, even if they did beat Ultimecia? That Rinoa would actually snap like a twig once Squall died? And that Square would actually paint the atmosphere so happy when in fact Squall was dead? That's ludicrous!
Squall wasn't seen in the home video because of elementary storytelling; we're supposed to be left hanging until the very end. That's it. Square have never ever made anything nearly as morbid as what some people suggest here, so why now? No, it's just absurd. Squall lived.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trisdyn
GOSH! Your second thought is very horrible and such pessimistic...Squall is dead and Rinoa gone insane!!! It's very terrible ending if its a REAL FF!! And any of the FFs didn't have so sad endings...
Have you played Final Fantasy X? (SPOILER)Tidus was completely erased from existance. That's a lot sadder than someone dying. And don't bring up Final Fantasy X-2 because originally, it wasn't planned.Quote:
Originally Posted by Great Sephiroth
If they can do something sad like that, I believe they can kill off Squall to make a point. I think the reason most people here don't agree with me is that they don't want to believe it. Therefore they convince themselves not to believe it. I really didn't want to believe it myself before I realized it made perfect sense to kill off Squall. It completed the final message of the story.
I never said Rinoa goes insane. That was Trisdyn. But she loved him enough to dream about him. You can't say you've never had dreams about people who are dead. I'm sorry, but this is the only way I can read the ending. Any other way just doesn't make sense to me.
I liked the ending FMV with the part of Rinoa's introduictory in the ball room looping over and over again put me in as trance almost. The camcorder parts were cool too.
I almost quote Trsydin's post, as you can see in the one post before...Quote:
Originally Posted by The CeejHave you played Final Fantasy X? (SPOILER)Tidus was completely erased from existance. That's a lot sadder than someone dying. And don't bring up Final Fantasy X-2 because originally, it wasn't planned.Quote:
Originally Posted by Great Sephiroth
If they can do something sad like that, I believe they can kill off Squall to make a point. I think the reason most people here don't agree with me is that they don't want to believe it. Therefore they convince themselves not to believe it. I really didn't want to believe it myself before I realized it made perfect sense to kill off Squall. It completed the final message of the story.
I never said Rinoa goes insane. That was Trisdyn. But she loved him enough to dream about him. You can't say you've never had dreams about people who are dead. I'm sorry, but this is the only way I can read the ending. Any other way just doesn't make sense to me.
Yes, I played and beat Final Fantasy X but you know there is a second part of that sad story. I wish Squall could do FFs with sad endings but never:( every single FF game end with a happiness (not FFX, I agree...)
And it's not possible that the only reason you believe this is that you want there to be a certain message at the end of the game so you interpret the ending the way you do so that the ending means what you want it to mean?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Ceej
You said something about Rinoa in a black dress?
Mmmm....
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f1...oFF/rinoa1.jpg
This is from the last video. I don't know what you are seeing, but I'm seeing blue.
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f1...oFF/rinoa2.jpg
This is her showing Squall the shooting star. Notice she's looking to the right, which is in conjuction with her in the home video:
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f1...oFF/rinoa3.jpg
The only person in a black dress in the ending is this person:
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f1.../EoFF/edea.jpg
This is Edea. Her hair is far too long to be Rinoa's, and it doesn't have the blonde streaks. And I seriously doubt Quistis would have bowed to Rinoa upon greeting her.
The whole point of a story is that something changes, something is found out, something is saved....something. If the journey Squall goes through leads him to not change anything about him at all....then there's not point to this story as far as Squall is concerned. The point of this story is that Squall's thoughts on life are wrong, and this journey shows him slowly but surely come to that realization. Otherwise, there's no story in the eyes of Squall.
And isn't it possible that Squall is not in the home video because he's outside standing next to Rinoa and the wall he's standing infront of is blocking the camera from seeing him?
Unfortunately, the ending in no way indicates that Rinoa was merely dreaming of Squall. When [spoilers]Tidus faded[/spoilers] in FFX, it was made abundantly clear that that's what happened. Yet we are offered nothing in the ending FMV that indicates Squall actually died. In fact, everything about the ending FMV points in the other direction. The only argument you've given as to why you think Squall dies is that it complies to your understanding of the games message. I think SeeDRankLou addressed that point curtly.Quote:
If they can do something sad like that, I believe they can kill off Squall to make a point. I think the reason most people here don't agree with me is that they don't want to believe it. Therefore they convince themselves not to believe it. I really didn't want to believe it myself before I realized it made perfect sense to kill off Squall. It completed the final message of the story.
I never said Rinoa goes insane. That was Trisdyn. But she loved him enough to dream about him. You can't say you've never had dreams about people who are dead. I'm sorry, but this is the only way I can read the ending. Any other way just doesn't make sense to me.
07-28-2007 09:19 PM
As for FFX, that "sad ending" was entirely different. [spoilers]A central running theme of FFX was that of self-sacrifice (embodied most obviously in the summoners journey). Tidus fading away was just the ultimate culmination of this, so his fading away fits obviously in with the themes of the game. It was a sacrifice he made to save Spira, and thus is "sad", but not "morbid" or "depressing".[/spoilers]
In FF8, a central theme is about overcoming your past (embodied in Ellone's quest), so Squall dying because he in fact wasn't meant to do that would be against the entire game, which is basically Squall's journey to get over his tragic past. Further, if Squall died, why on earth would Square make the most happy ending FMV in an FF ever (bar perhaps FF9) and make no indications as to his death? Why would they show him kissing Rinoa without indicating at all that it was a dream?
FFX's ending makes sense. Your interpretation of FF8's doesn't.
Okay, I hate Rinoa. [Sorry fans]
But I loved the ending.
=D
You hate Rinoa?????Are yu serious, she is the most cutest main female characther in all FFs...She is cute she is beautiful and so when she smiles:love: ...anyway...
In the end of FFVIII, Squall did not DIE... First, if Squall dead, the whole party that they making was ridicoulus... And second, Rinoa really kissing Squall in the end...
Ceej's ideas interested me.
I've played ff8 a million times over, I dont have a favourte final fantasy, I dont think you can compare them in that way but 8 is the game I've played most.
When I first saw the ending I was sure he survived and we had a "lived happy ever after" ending but the second time I beat the game I wasnt sure if that was true. Now I'm confident it is true and he did survive.
For the last sequence to be a dream we would need another sequence after it to confirm its a dream, its traditional in games and films to follow up a dream with reality. We know that all the other characters and that Rinoa survived from the cam corder bit and the only person we dont see is Squall, its basically Square trying to make us have a guess, did he die? Everyone was a bit too cheerful for that and when someone dies, you dont stare at the sky and smile, do you? They cleverly waited untill after the long credits to keep people on edge weither Squall had died or not and it came to a conclusion that he didnt, he is seen, he smiles, he kisses a living person and the screen pans far away.
The games story relied on the basis of friendship and having an almost mental link with friends, that they wouldn't get back alive without the help of their friends. Squall is seperated from his friends and almost dies, staying true to what would have happened untill he is found by Rinoa, whos facial expressions turns from grief to suprise when the clouds disappear and she sees the garden he done all that promising lark.
Thats why I cant say Squall died. Dreams need follow-ups to be shown its not reality and for a game as complex as final fantasy it wouldnt make sense not to do so.
I always thought that Squall was the one video recording it for a short time. You know, after Irvine is talking to Quistis and stuff.
Nope, first Selphie was recording and then, Irvine take out camera...Quote:
Originally Posted by Comet
I'm going to say that Ceej is completely wrong here too, Squall lives, firstly we have him trying to remember Rinoa's face but failing he tries to remember other things too but it all gets mixed up, the dollet mission, the edea assasination, but primarily the dance with Rinoa. Then Rinoa in space...so on and so on. Rinoa is grieving at first but then the light shaft and clouds roll back, the ground turns in to the plains of centra where the orphanage is, she's then looking at Squall with surprise and joy, we can assume from that expression, SHE had nothing or very little to do with the sudden change there. Cut to Seifer who whilst angry that Rajin can catch fish whilst he can't then laughing as Fujin kicks him off the pier turns to look at Garden whilst Fujin is at attention, Rajin stops trying to climb out Seifer is left standing there looking up with what can only be described as a sad smile but I don't think he'd be overly sad if Squall died I mean the two tried to kill each other pretty much from the start of the game. Cut to Laguna and Ellone, they don't appear overly sad as Garden passes overhead infact they seem surprised but happy to see it, Laguna quite obviously is Squalls dad if your son died aged 17 or so and died in a horrible lonely death fighting to save you all would you be happy? I doubt it. Then we have the camcorder film, the battery kicks out but we then see Rinoa and Squall kiss he seems to be standing off to the right hand side of the balcony, the doorway wall blocks this from where Irvine had the camera pointed at Rinoa from yet Selphie probably could see through the doorway to Squall too. Maybe as per usual he turns up late for the party?
In some ways there are some things that would suggest that Squall dying makes sense, but there is one thing that renders all such statements null and void, no matter what argument you present....and that is the fact that they are having a PARTY at the end. If Squall died do you really think everyone would forget about him and celebrate while Rinoa has halucinations of him on the balcony? I think NOT.
Ceej's stupidity amazes and makes me laugh at the same time. That's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. "You guys are all wrong and don't want to accept the fact that he's dead; it goes well with my personal interpretation of the game, therefore I will say that it was a dream." Seriously? Are you kidding me? It's the exact opposite, YOU don't want to accept the fact that he's alive because it doesn't follow your interpretation of the game. YOU get over it. Squall kissing Rinoa was as much of a dream as (SPOILER)Aeris's death was.
I don't care if you wanted Squall to die, it's the fact that you're changing the events of the game (with terrible excuses I might add) to make it coincide with your personal opinions.
very cruel to include Aeris.. still bit of a soft spot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xurts
but you were spot on!(very much pun intended)
if you think squall isnt real then you are actually making up stories to kill him off.. why on earth would you want to kill him off?.. anyway..
the fact that it came after the credits is just proof that he was alive.. same thing happend after FF7 credits.. they want to make it clear that it's a happy ending. If u think differently, think again! :p
Children, be nice to each other! I don't want this thread closed and my fellow EoFF members in therapy.
I don't think Squall died. Like many people have said already, I think Square would make it more obvious if he had died, and not all cheery-like.
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Originally Posted by Dr. Acula
Amen brother :cool:
It's impossible not to agree with everyone's hypothesis because this ending is too confusing.
I think & i'm not sure of this but anyone out there that is wiilling to answer please do so.
If Squall died or not I'm not sure but could it be possibles that Squall is trap in time compression.
I know is not realistic but because the ending is confusing who knows?
please let me know.
2 things to think about.
If Squall died he would be next to Rayine when Laguna gives her the ring.
when Rinoa see a shooting star she points at it ?????????
everybody makes a wish when seeing a shooting star, maybe she is wishing Squall was there.
Star > Artemisia (real figure) > RinoaQuote:
Originally Posted by PATRIHE2001
Lion > Mausolus (real figure) > Squall
FF8 portrayed the reign of Artemisia and Mausolus.
Two persons didn't know each other in the exact beginning of FF8. At that point, Rinoa being a star and shows it (pointing at the star) to no stranger, Squall. Later in the game, Squall being a lion and shows it to Rinoa.