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I enjoyed the story and length of 8 more.
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Your views?
I enjoyed the story and length of 8 more.
Why is this in the FFXII forum?
I liked FFT the best.
It is the most overrated FF ever. Many people I have seen like it because it was their first FF they ever played. And the fact that it is so overrated makes people fail to see that it is actually the worst FF ever made.
Why is it the worst? Well, it was supposed thought to be a "revolutionary" game by many people, since it was the first ever FF in 3D. Though it just didn't give what was expected. The graphics were poor and they could have done a better job in my opinion, since FF8 came with much more improved graphics later. There's also the usage of four characters went down to three, which is ironic since FF7 was so much easier than other FF's before it. Not to mention Sephiroth was such a mediocre villain. Basically, I'm saying it is bad because it was supposed to be a huge change in FF, but I didn't think it really improved much.
FFVII is very good IMO. But not a patch on FFIX.
Its not quite as good as FFXII or X either in terms of enjoyment, but that's mainly because of the limited capabilities of the graphics.
I like it a lot, except for the graphics >_<, but I think VI and IX (so far) are better.
I think it is. It had such a huge impact on the gaming world and nobody is gonna come on here and say they weren't genuinely upset by the biggest death scene in video game history!
I really liked VI too but VII offered me more. VIII ran it close (great story, characters, graphics to die for and longevity without getting into overkill) but the junction system made me angry. A LOT. IX was great fun but was way to easy. X was just a fabulous game. Probably my second favourite. XII was a big chunk of fun but I thought the characters weren't as good as previous games. It felt kinda like a Star Wars game (with a really hot wookie). ;)
That just made me laugh so hard. Galuf's death and General Leo's death were so much better.Quote:
Originally Posted by sephireland
General Leo? Really!!? To each his/her own I guess. Might be a good idea for a vote thread?
Shouldn't this of been moved, already.
I prefer twelve. but i won't deny that VII is a kickass game. probably one of the best ever made
EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW.
No.
Not at all.
Fanboy best, yes.
Best? no.
Not at all.
Never say that again.
I will cast Ultima on you.
But it is a pretty good game overall. I liked it.
I perfer VI and IX and IV. And V, too.
I can.Quote:
Originally Posted by sephireland
I've only cried once, and that was after seeing Galuf's death, good night sweet prince.
Anyways. Not the best, not at all, but, not the worst, FFVIII takes that by far.
VII is ass.
The best what? Game? FF? Definitely the best Final Fantasy title, and would definitely be a contender for best game.
FFVII is my Favourite but not the best, i dont consider any Final Fantasy the best because they are all brilliant in their own way.
I wonder why they're all called Final Fantasy...Quote:
Originally Posted by cloud21zidane16
Personally, i wasn't moved the slightest. Maybe a little bit because of the music. It was more of a relaxing feeling though.Quote:
Originally Posted by sephireland
As for VII being the best, i don't know. I like it a lot, but i think i prefer VIII and IX.
i guess, if you like little blocks saying brief texts and flashing until they dissappear...or just turning sideways, then yeah, i guess they would be "so much better."Quote:
Originally Posted by PuPuThat just made me laugh so hard. Galuf's death and General Leo's death were so much better.Quote:
Originally Posted by sephireland
I think it's one of the best. IMO it's a 3-way tie between the PSX titles although sometimes I feel IX is disqualified for being a tribute game rather than a new entry.
pfft, no.
My objective opinion is that it's the 2nd worst FF, a not completely horrible and without merit, yet mediocre game that inexplicably overshadows 7 (at least) superior FFs.
My unobjective opinion is that I resent the fanpersons who made this happen, hate the game with a fiery passion on account of that, and want to pimp-slap anyone who actually thinks this is the best game or that sephiroth was anything going for him whatsoever.
I also wasn't the least bit moved by the death, but that's mostly because I didn't think I'd ever get to play the game (did not know about emulators) and read all the spoilers on it. Never used her in my party when I didn't have to, never grew attached, and knew it was coming from the start. Kinda hard to be moved under those conditions.
And how would you determine if someone's death was better than another's?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolivari guess, if you like little blocks saying brief texts and flashing until they dissappear...or just turning sideways, then yeah, i guess they would be "so much better."Quote:
Originally Posted by PuPuThat just made me laugh so hard. Galuf's death and General Leo's death were so much better.Quote:
Originally Posted by sephireland
Galuf's death was to sacrifice himself to protect the others from X-Death. Leo's death was better because it was said that Gestahl betrayed him (along with Kefka) even though he had undying loyalty toward him. You are just trying to trivialize those things by saying that they are mere graphics and pixels. Why not reduce everything else in the game to that as well then?
And those are both better than Aeris sitting there like a defenseless idiot.
Correction PRAYING like a defenseless idiot, another reason to never pray :PQuote:
Originally Posted by PuPuAnd how would you determine if someone's death was better than another's?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolivari guess, if you like little blocks saying brief texts and flashing until they dissappear...or just turning sideways, then yeah, i guess they would be "so much better."Quote:
Originally Posted by PuPuThat just made me laugh so hard. Galuf's death and General Leo's death were so much better.Quote:
Originally Posted by sephireland
Galuf's death was to sacrifice himself to protect the others from X-Death. Leo's death was better because it was said that Gestahl betrayed him (along with Kefka) even though he had undying loyalty toward him. You are just trying to trivialize those things by saying that they are mere graphics.
Those are both better than Aeris sitting there like a defenseless idiot.
To say that Final Fantasy 7 was a insignificant step in Role-Playing Games would be like saying the discovery of DNA was an insignificant step in biology...well, maybe not that far, but you get what I mean. Before FF7 no one had seen this kind of RPG before in terms of artistic direction and setting (baring obscure, non-mainstream titles). FF7 was hugely successful partly because of it being part of the franchise (in Japan at least), but also because of how different it was. That FF7 sold as well as it did overseas despite the relatively unknown presence of the FF franchise in general in the consciousness of gamers must mean something, as does it's popularity. You don't become popular by sucking. However stupid the majority may sometimes be, most of the time they have a point, also taking into account that the average gamer is a lot pickier compared to a high-street music jockey.Quote:
Originally Posted by Monsey
In terms of it's merits and flaws it's obvious that it suffered from simplistic graphics (specifically character models), bad translation (PSX USA version) and a boatload of niggling bugs that really should have been stamped out (overflowing Vincent's Death Penalty, MDefense not counting towards your final total etc. etc.). In some ways its quite a sloppily made package. This can be attributed to a combination of not understanding the hardware and a speed to ship the game (but let's not forget Square have a history of lacking oversight in terms of their battle systems - FF6's infamous MBlock% bug anyone?). However what stands out for many is the storyline, which at the time of its release was the most unique selling point. Whilst previous RPG titles had delved into the idea of character development and arcing storylines, arguably FF7 contributed the most (in it's generation) towards pushing the medium along. It took cues primarily from the likes of film and television, two medium that have honed their visual narrative skills, and applied it to a complex and borderline metaphysical script (the nature of the self, cycle of life, dealing with rejection and depression - pretty heavy stuff).
As for what I think, FF7 to me is, along with all of the other FF's, a stand-out RPG no matter which way you look at it. To brush off its positive qualities outright due to its popularity is ridiculous. While I admit that the sheer popularity associated with the game can border on the insane (I see the compilation of FF7 to be grossly unnecessary creatively speaking), it doesn't put me off being subjective to it as its own product. As it happens it stands very well as its own product.
I think you misinterpreted the scene, and indeed the character of Aeris. She is less a person and more a symbol, specifically a symbol of the arcane and mystical. There are several attributes she possesses that separate her from the other party members; she's an ancient, she can communicate with the planet/dead, she has no real fear of death due to her knowledge of how life works, and most importantly her eventual role is that of a magical conduit through which the salvation of the earth, namely Holy, may be brought about. That no one else alive can do this makes her very important indeed. Its a gradual transition, and one so underplayed that many players miss it, and the game cleverly misdirects you by focusing on the apparently romantic entanglement between Cloud and herself. Post-death of course she takes her place as this mystical force, and solidifies this role in the animated film Advent Children. As for the scene itself, as I said before she has no real fear of death. Most likely she is more than aware of her untimely demise. Note she doesn't react to Sephiroth falling from the ceiling. Not a wince, not a single movement until the blade is driven into her. With all due respect, the power of this scene couldn't be recreated as effectively in a sprite-based environment. Comparing it to previous death scenes in the franchise and attempting to justify their superiority in terms of artistic direction is madness. Scripting and character development aside, the strength of the death scene of Aeris comes partly from the way in which it's play out, from the camera angles that show the death to the slow fades that lead to the Holy materia dropping into the water. Frankly this is something the pre-FF7 Final Fantasies would not have been capable of doing.Quote:
Originally Posted by PuPu
I won't argue that Aeris was the only one who could summon Holy or that she had a special connection with the planet. But I don't agree that she knew Sephy would kill her, since Cloud and the rest didn't see him coming either. And I think what she did was idiotic because of the fact that she decided to go alone for some reason, instead of just telling to the group that she needed to go to the City of the Ancients. And if the group went along, she would have been able to summon Holy and most likely been alive at the same time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Maxx PowerI think you misinterpreted the scene, and indeed the character of Aeris. She is less a person and more a symbol, specifically a symbol of the arcane and mystical. There are several attributes she possesses that separate her from the other party members; she's an ancient, she can communicate with the planet/dead, she has no real fear of death due to her knowledge of how life works, and most importantly her eventual role is that of a magical conduit through which the salvation of the earth, namely Holy, may be brought about. That no one else alive can do this makes her very important indeed. Its a gradual transition, and one so underplayed that many players miss it, and the game cleverly misdirects you by focusing on the apparently romantic entanglement between Cloud and herself. Post-death of course she takes her place as this mystical force, and solidifies this role in the animated film Advent Children. As for the scene itself, as I said before she has no real fear of death. Most likely she is more than aware of her untimely demise. Note she doesn't react to Sephiroth falling from the ceiling. Not a wince, not a single movement until the blade is driven into her. With all due respect, the power of this scene couldn't be recreated as effectively in a sprite-based environment. Comparing it to previous death scenes in the franchise and attempting to justify their superiority in terms of artistic direction is madness. Scripting and character development aside, the strength of the death scene of Aeris comes partly from the way in which it's play out, from the camera angles that show the death to the slow fades that lead to the Holy materia dropping into the water. Frankly this is something the pre-FF7 Final Fantasies would not have been capable of doing.Quote:
Originally Posted by PuPu
And as for the camera angles showing her death, this seems no different than showing animations such as screen flashing, explosions, fading away, etc. to strengthen someone or something's death. And I don't believe how well it was animated determines how strong the death was.
Well, my personal opinion of VII is that it is very good. I would probably call it my favorite. The storyline was emotional and thought-provoking. The characters were all 3-dimensional (that is, artistically 3-D not graphicaly), believable, and highly developed. Though rather polygonal and hard edged now, the graphics then were unbelievable. The cinemas in that game can still rival some of the graphics of todays games. Not many, but some. That, at least, is my opinion of it.
You suggested it's possible when you described how hard you were laughing at how someone liked Aeris' death. Which sounds like a pretty childish thing to do. No offense, but FFVII always seems to bring out the worst in what are traditionally good posters.Quote:
Originally Posted by PuPuAnd how would you determine if someone's death was better than another's?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolivari guess, if you like little blocks saying brief texts and flashing until they dissappear...or just turning sideways, then yeah, i guess they would be "so much better."Quote:
Originally Posted by PuPuThat just made me laugh so hard. Galuf's death and General Leo's death were so much better.Quote:
Originally Posted by sephireland
Galuf's death was to sacrifice himself to protect the others from X-Death. Leo's death was better because it was said that Gestahl betrayed him (along with Kefka) even though he had undying loyalty toward him. You are just trying to trivialize those things by saying that they are mere graphics and pixels. Why not reduce everything else in the game to that as well then?
And those are both better than Aeris sitting there like a defenseless idiot.
Very well put, and I think it outlines how some of us who think FFVII is a contendor or a clear shot winner of the "Best FF Title" actually do accept this game for its faults as well as its strengths. 7 is an obviously incomplete game, due to how rushed it was, but as Uematsu says, that's the one thing all FF's have in common, they're all incomplete.Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Maxx Power
Also, I realize and fully support the notion that better technology does not necessarily make a better game. It's what you do with that which does, and with this game Square was able to go above and beyond its previous games. Like Maxx Power said, the simple fact that there were different shots allowed the team to convey ideas and emotions in ways unattainable with previous hardware. The first 60 seconds of the game alone is something that would have been impossible on the Super Famicom/Nintendo.
II and V are among my favorite entries in the series, but I find it very hard to find a single category in which the previous installments were better than this one. Thus why I believe VI is easily the most overrated game in the series.
I didn't say I laughed at Aeris' death. I laughed at the fact that he said it was "the biggest death scene in video game history." I think what might have caused you to think that way was because I said Aeris was a defenseless idiot. She was, but that didn't mean I laughed at her death.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolivar
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloud21zidane16
There.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
Thank you. You two win this thread and the internet for having a brain.
ILU2!
:monster: *cough*You're crazy!*cough*Quote:
Originally Posted by ProxyQuote:
Originally Posted by cloud21zidane16
There.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
Thank you. You two win this thread and the internet for having a brain.
ILU2!
ff7 is overated but brilliant nontheless. i preferred X though, that's probably my favourite . . . or maybe XIII .. ..
The people who I hate more than the rabid fanboys/girls are the people who have to say that just because it is popular, it must be really, really bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by PuPu
No, no it isn't.
It can be easy to brush off Aeris' actions as "idiotic" or "stupid", but I think that really underplays her personality and intelligence. At no point in the game does she demonstrate that she is particularly reckless. One could interpret her actions in a couple of ways; she may have been shaken by the events at the City of the Ancients (she saw Cloud give the Black Materia to Sephiroth before he started beating the crap out of her) and felt that she was better off on her own. In another sense she may have known full well what she was doing and the full strength of Sephi and decided not to get the others involved. After all they're not Ancients and it isn't their responsibility to summon Holy. Or it could have simply been that she didn't know that Sephiroth would be present. However pre-knowledge of her death or not, I think at the actual event itself she is willing to accept her death. From what we've heard Holy was already on its way but was stopped by Sephiroth, rather than Aeris failing to summon it. So in essence her role was fulfilled. Perhaps she thought that it would be possible for her to allow Holy to escape if she returned to the planet. Whatever the case, I don't think Aeris was just "being stupid" when she decided to go on her own. The only possible explanation I can come up with is the possibility that the writers didn't think through her motivation for leaving. However, given the strength of the writing and its consistency throughout the rest of the game I find this hard to believe.Quote:
Originally Posted by PuPu
As for the whole sprites versus 3D animation arguement, I really don't know how else to convince you. The sheer jump from one to the other is hard to compare in real-terms to anything else, but from an artistic point of view it's massive. You go from a limited colour palette, static angles and severely limited facial and body animations to near-humanlike expression and action. It'd be like having the death scene of Boromir in Lord of the Rings done with shadow puppets. If you genuinely believe that the simple sprites of yesteryear can more effectively produce an emotional reaction compared to more modern techniques then you're free to think so. Personally I disagree wholly with you, the main reason being this; Who do people remember dying more - General Leo or Aeris?
QFT.. gotta love people who jump on the hate bandwagons without reason. I bet more than half of them were fanboys/girls themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by gyrus
Even ten years later I'd still say it's my personal favorite in the series.. because it was the first game I actually spent over a few days of gametime playing. And I'll never forget it... I rented it from Blockbuster, and then we were hit with the massive snow storm of 98', and school was out for a few weeks. Luckily our apartment still had power so I was able to enjoy it.. I was drawn in right from the first bombing run. I was impressed by the dialogue and graphics, even though I thought some of it was a little cheesy. The music had me turning up my TV. The combat was fast, and the materia system was incredibly easy to pickup. Midgar was a great place to start off the game... the mix of fantasy and sci fi, the slums, meeting the Shinra and the Turks for the first time, learning about Hojo and Sephiroth.. then I was playing about 5-6 hours straight after the first history lesson in Kalm.
Anyway.. I played right through till the end, and I got lost enough times along the way so that Cloud was 99, and the rest of my party was around 85-95, so the final battle was extremly intense. I hadn't used any guides or anything, so I didn't know about KotR or mime or anything else. And I accidently gave sephiroth an x-potion halfway through the fight when I panicked after a super nova ):
It was the most fun I've ever had with a game.. I was only eleven and not really a gamer until then. After that I really got into RPGs, but it was hard to find something as intricate as FFVII, until VIII came along.. and I stuck with FF's as my main source of RPGs.
The Aeris death and losing Cloud in the later part of the game were my favorite parts..
That's just my experience, I was never a rabid fan, but I have yet to play a game I got so involved in. I would have rathered they made some kind of sequel or prelude to the game rather than a few spin-offs and AC.. but oh well.
In terms of storyline and gameplay, I'd say FFVII is still the best of the series. IX for graphics and characters.
/
Firstly, I'd like to show this:Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkjaQFT.. gotta love people who jump on the hate bandwagons without reason. I bet more than half of them were fanboys/girls themselves. /Quote:
Originally Posted by gyrus
This proves my point of:Quote:
Even ten years later I'd still say it's my personal favorite in the series.. because it was the first game I actually spent over a few days of gametime playing. And I'll never forget it...
Secondly, the amount of hate the FF7 probably gets is nothing to the amount of rabid fans it gets, so I don't see what the problem of not liking FF7 is.Quote:
Many people I have seen like it because it was their first FF they ever played.
And finally, unlike what you two might have thought, I actually gave reasons as to why I did not like FF7, in case your minds were too clouded of thoughts such as "there's another person who didn't like FF7, total hater". Maybe that's why neither of you read what I said. So there goes your theory of "jumping the hate bandwagon without reason." If anything, you two are more of rabid fanboys yourselves, since you immediately jumped on me as soon as I said I didn't like FF7 and ignored everything I said after that.
Maxx- Your first paragraph seems to be all interpretation of her character, and I suppose if you think she was doing it for other reasons that are different from mine, which are recklessness and stupidity, then I don't think there is any way to convince either of us. And even though the story might have been strong throughout most of the game, it is not flawless or perfect. So it seems to me that the writers might or could have just missed this one part. As for your second paragraph, you are right. The fact that the art and how well it was drawn does have somewhat of an effect in making me remember it, but it does not make it better in my opinion, since I was never really a type of person who was swayed by graphics.
But I know when I am beat. I'm glad to have debated with someone who definitely knows how to explain why they like FF7 and isn't a rabid fanboy. No offense, of course.
The best? Yeah right.
VII had the unfortunate position of being in the "flashy" generation (where cool graphics became more important that was FF was really all about, the story) and also the first of that generation, which makes its graphics a laughingstock compared to all later games in the series. It does hold the rather useless title of the most revolutionary FF game, but does not get anywhere near being the best because it contained far too many bugs, glitches, typoes, suffered from a broken ability system (Materia), was far too easy, had a protagonist and villain who, like the game itself, are insanely overrated, and a litter of spin-offs.
That's just a terrible question to ask, d00d. Already there's three pages of replies that I'd prefer not to inflict upon myself. It mightn't be the best at all (10 or 12 probably is in terms of size, graphics and just about anything that might make a game replayable) but it is my favourite.
7 is most likely most popular in PAL territories for obvious reasons (It was our first; Mystic Quest had the FF title removed). It's a scary thought that the worst of its fanchildren probably come from my own country.
If you could point out where I said you laughed at her death, I would appreciate that. I said you laughing "hard" at someone giving props to a game scene is a pretty childish thing to do. And it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by PuPuI didn't say I laughed at Aeris' death. I laughed at the fact that he said it was "the biggest death scene in video game history." I think what might have caused you to think that way was because I said Aeris was a defenseless idiot. She was, but that didn't mean I laughed at her death.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolivar
And just because you don't understand a character's motives doesn't mean that he/she is an idiot.
Alright, I misunderstood you the first time.Quote:
Originally Posted by BolivarIf you could point out where I said you laughed at her death, I would appreciate that. I said you laughing "hard" at someone giving props to a game scene is a pretty childish thing to do. And it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by PuPuI didn't say I laughed at Aeris' death. I laughed at the fact that he said it was "the biggest death scene in video game history." I think what might have caused you to think that way was because I said Aeris was a defenseless idiot. She was, but that didn't mean I laughed at her death.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolivar
I'm not laughing at the fact that people might have liked Aeris' death. I'm not saying that it's wrong for people to like certain things such whether it be the game of FF7, or Aeris' death. What I thought was funny was the exaggeration, and you can't tell me that it wasn't an exaggeration. I'm sorry if what I did offended you in any way.
Though the thing I really didn't understand was why you quoted one of my posts and changed the subject to how I was acting childish. Are you just trying to prove some kind of point by saying that I'm childish? Or are you just trying to avoid my original question?
And just because you think certain lines of a game are unimportant, "little blocks saying brief texts" does not make it so either.Quote:
And just because you don't understand a character's motives doesn't mean that he/she is an idiot.
This thread is showing off one of the biggest problems the FFVII forum (along with a few others) gets.
People need to realize that not everyone will like the same thing as them. This thread is clearly going to look for opinions, which, is going to be very bad for debating. And we are going to get bitchfights because of it (such as Bolivar v. PuPu), and said fights shall never end.
My opinion will be no, I may exaggerate here and there, but it will stay no.
Those who say yes, will also exaggerate, but their opinions will stay yes.
And if you continue to try and make jabs each other, we're going to get what already has started, "You're being Childish." "You're making bad posts because you want to hate the game."
Point in short, stop arguing, a thread that asks for opinions is not a good place for debates.
Boko is right. Look Bolivar, I think you are a really great debater and often makes great posts. However, this argument is getting us nowhere. And I believe that you are right; this debate has brought out the worst in both of us. Let's agree to just end this right here before it gets out of hand.
Alright, I have a theory. I've had this theory for a while and the more I read this board, the more I think I'm probably right.
I believe I have determined what kind of people love FFVII and what kind of people hate it.
It has been theorized many times by many people that the people who love it do because it was their "first." Close. It correlates with age a bit, but you're missing the mark.
It isn't that it had to be the very first, it's just that they had to have been young (teens) when they first played it.
If you played the game first as a teenager you saw the protagonist and thought "wow, he's so cool. He's a badass rebel loner who acts like he doesn't need friends and doesn't want any. He's so deep.... he's just like me." The angsty teenager identifies with Cloud, and so they love the game. If you're a non-angsty teenager when you play it you might not like the game as much, but lets face it, if you're a teenager and playing video games-- especially RPGs-- in the 90s, chances are you leaned at least a little toward angsty.
If you were like me and played the game for the first time as an adult, identifying with cloud was considerably harder. "ooooh, Mr. 'I'm a badass with no sense of humor, no friends, and trying to look tough when I'm a scared little boy. Look at me, I have the personality of a stump!' *eyeroll* Get over yourself you cliche teen angst weakling." And so you hate the guy you're supposed to be role-playing, making it pretty hard to get into the game.
I am almost positive that if I had been 14 when I first played FFVII I would've absolutely loved it and it would be among my favorites today. I know my old self well enough to know I would've had a man crush on cloud. "oooh, we get each other! We're kindred spirits!" Ugh. Luckily I've grown up, but I did so without ever playing VII, without identifying with cloud, and therefore without having fond memories of getting lost in his role.
I agree that we get too sidetracked in these threads from actually holding good discussions, although they do permeate in almost all of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by PuPu
But when people start saying outlandishly false things to supplement/justify their hatred for something, i am going to call them out on it. I don't go into the the NES/SNES forums making inflammatory and baseless comments to instigate "bitchfights" as boko puts it, so why do the FFVI fans? Maybe it's because rather than getting caught up in some kind of grudge I enjoy the older games just as much as the newer ones and have just as much to say about them.
Why can't we all just get along?
There where no "outlandishly false things" in his statement. He stated "It wasn't the best death, and FFVII didn't do it for me." He used exageration just as you did right in your own statement by saying " I don't go into the the NES/SNES... so why do the FFVI fans?". They don't, they state their opinions, sometimes with an edge of sarcasm, but we all do. And all of the fans of the game can't take that. When it comes down to it, the ONLY reason that the NES and SNES forums don't get as many (they do get some) of these negitive, sarcastic comments, is because less PSX fans have played them. Stop trying to continue this argument now.Quote:
Originally Posted by BolivarI agree that we get too sidetracked in these threads from actually holding good discussions, although they do permeate in almost all of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by PuPu
But when people start saying outlandishly false things to supplement/justify their hatred for something, i am going to call them out on it. I don't go into the the NES/SNES forums making inflammatory and baseless comments to instigate "bitchfights" as boko puts it, so why do the FFVI fans? Maybe it's because rather than getting caught up in some kind of grudge I enjoy the older games just as much as the newer ones and have just as much to say about them.
Why can't we all just get along?
I still stand by my reasons as to why I didn't like FF7. But I can agree that the way I said them might have seemed a bit harsh, since saying "FF7 is the worst because..." and "I think FF7 is the worst because..." are quite different. Unfortunately, I sounded more like the former than the latter, which probably made myself sound like a rabid hater to many people.
Bolivar- I'm assuming you are talking about calling me out when I talked about Aeris. I'm not trying to start another argument, just to make things clear by saying that I didn't hate the scene. I just didn't think it was appropriate to exaggerate it as the best death in video games. It would be like saying "Sephiroth is the best villain in all video games."
FFVII has the best story (or at least it's superior to FFVIII's), but it is not the best game overall. But neither is FFVIII, so...
Pupu - that's understandable, and true
Boko - lol
I would love to agree with this theory. However I first played the game when I was 14 and that at that point I oozed antisocial behavior, and yet I am one of the first to disagree whenever people claim FFVII is the best games in the series. Therefore I am either a major exception to the rule or your antethesis.Quote:
Originally Posted by ,,,
Also before anyone claims I'm just hopping on the bandwagon, I was speaking out against this game before it was popular to hate it.
ff7 was the most popular, by quite a bit, but i havent played them all so I cant say which is the best, but i think 9 and 7 tie best for the ones that i played.
FFVII just set a staple for the kind of quality you can expect from an FF game. A complex and interesting story with exciting and relatable characters, backed up by breathtaking music at times. (Ok, I know FFVI, FFIV and others probably did that but not many people played 'em). It then introduced beautiful 3D FMVs in a 3D environment, which is the reason why it got noticed.
The FFs that followed are not neccessarily any worse, its just that people aren't as blown away anymore. They have expectations of Final Fantasy which they didnt have at first. And also theres the phenomenon of the FF experience. Your first FF is often your favourite. And FFVII was many people's first.
I think FF7 is a brilliant game. I really don't care about the typos and glitches because the game was made in 1997, where amazing A.I in games did not exist yet.
IGN's top games ever for 2006 (since 2007 isn't out yet) has the highest ranked FF as..
OMG no way!
FFVI, at spot 8.
So no, no it's not! =D
:heart:
The people can not lie!
FFVII was a HUGE disappointment to me, I remember playing it thinking "I'm finally going to play this game everyone says is so great!". And what I got was a mediocre game experience, nothing about the game stood out to me. The story was average, the gameplay was nothing new, the music was just good ol FF music. The materia system was pretty nice though. I wasn't that late to playing it, maybe 1998. Either way I don't think it's the best FF.
I personally don't like FFVII. It's by far the most overrated game ever in my eyes, and it overshadows FFVIII, which in my opinion is 10 times better than VII.
It really depends on what you like in a Final Fantasy n.n
I personally think FFX is the best in the series, while someone else may say FFVII or maybe FFI. None of us are wrong, we just enjoy different aspects of the game.
Frankly, as much as I like FF7, I sympathise deeply with those who don't, purely for the amount of people who attack them for it: I get attacked for hating Super Mario 64 quite often.
I especially sympathise with those who spent all of disc 1 powerlevelling Aeris only for her to kick the bucket at the end of it on their first play. Good going Square, remove the one person who in gameplay terms isn't totally identical to all the others from the character roster. Real smart. So Yuffie can use Clear Tranquil, whoop-de-smurfing-doo, Restore-All has the same effect. What replaces Fury Brand? Planet Protector? Invinciblity status is only available when you need it one hell of a lot less! Imagine using it to counter Aire Tam Storm! Thanks a friggin' lot! Aeris' death didn't get me emotional at all; because I play games for gameplay, it just pissed me off to be deprived of one of the only unique characters.
So I've replied once already saying that no, FF7 isn't the best. I think that award goes to 10 despite my own personal criticisms of that game.
7 isn't the best I don't think but 7, 8, and 9 are the greatest.
6 too I guess...
I never considered VII the best. The title of best FF for me will always go to IX and nothing will ever change that. Never before did something so grab me like IX. It didn't let me go until I had finished it (and I was sad I did).
Now about VII, maybe it was because IX set such high standards for me. Or maybe it was just because people say it's the best. It didn't grab me. It's not a bad game, but it's nothing revolutionary or super amazing in my eyes. Compared to VI, the only huge step I could see were the graphics and the FMVs. Gameplay was altered a bit like it was in every FF. For me VII's like X, average, an alright game, but it never lived up to my expectations. That'll teach me to listen to an army of fanboys shouting as one that VII's the best thing since sliced bread.
It's not the best, not the worst (the worst is VI). For me it is surpassed by quite some other FF titles. But I don't regret playing or buying it.
Oh, and Aeris death didn't do that much to me. What one thinks of that scene is purely opinion. I didn't laugh that she was gone either, but I can't say I was sad. It was spoiled for me too much already. The saddest death in my eyes was Aria's in III DS, regardless of what other people think of it. Again, other deaths from other FF titles surpassed hers.
Just because you think FF7 is the worst FF game doesn't mean it's overrated in reality. Many other people have different opinions, most of thier opinions are much different than yours, thus it's not overrated. Also it's nonsense to call them failures for not realising that FF7 is the worst FF game just for the sake of your disagreement.Quote:
Originally Posted by PuPu
I love FF7, of course not it's not my first FF game I ever have played. I played almost all FF games and I believe that FF7 got my vote because of many reasons, everything in the game truly has touched me.
Ugh. I knew I'd probably get bashed by lots of FF7 fans because of that post.Quote:
Originally Posted by SerapyJust because you think FF7 is the worst FF game doesn't mean it's overrated in reality. Many other people have different opinions, most of thier opinions are much different than yours, thus it's not overrated. Also it's nonsense to call them failures for not realising that FF7 is the worst FF game just for the sake of your disagreement.Quote:
Originally Posted by PuPu
I love FF7, of course not it's not my first FF game I ever have played. I played almost all FF games and I believe that FF7 got my vote because of many reasons, everything in the game truly has touched me.
I already gave an explanation 14 posts ago about how my first post in this thread was a bit harsh. Here it is, in case you were too lazy to read.
Yeah, sorry if I offended anybody for my first post.Quote:
I still stand by my reasons as to why I didn't like FF7. But I can agree that the way I said them might have seemed a bit harsh, since saying "FF7 is the worst because..." and "I think FF7 is the worst because..." are quite different. Unfortunately, I sounded more like the former than the latter, which probably made myself sound like a rabid hater to many people.
Any other rabid FF7 fans?
smurfing hell, calm down chaps.I didn't mean to wind anybody up that much.Haha aha
Explain why the general consensus that the game is a good game voted by a big majority of people. That should prove that the game in general/reality is not worst of all. You didn't offend me by the way, the reason why I replied is because you assumed that fans failed to acknowledge that the game is the worst FF =/Quote:
Originally Posted by PuPuUgh. I knew I'd probably get bashed by lots of FF7 fans because of that post.Quote:
Originally Posted by SerapyJust because you think FF7 is the worst FF game doesn't mean it's overrated in reality. Many other people have different opinions, most of thier opinions are much different than yours, thus it's not overrated. Also it's nonsense to call them failures for not realising that FF7 is the worst FF game just for the sake of your disagreement.Quote:
Originally Posted by PuPu
I love FF7, of course not it's not my first FF game I ever have played. I played almost all FF games and I believe that FF7 got my vote because of many reasons, everything in the game truly has touched me.
I already gave an explanation 14 posts ago about how my first post in this thread was a bit harsh. Here it is, in case you were too lazy to read.
Yeah, sorry if I offended anybody for my first post.Quote:
I still stand by my reasons as to why I didn't like FF7. But I can agree that the way I said them might have seemed a bit harsh, since saying "FF7 is the worst because..." and "I think FF7 is the worst because..." are quite different. Unfortunately, I sounded more like the former than the latter, which probably made myself sound like a rabid hater to many people.
Any other rabid FF7 fans?
That only proves how many people like it, not how good it is. A person can say he/she likes a game, but it does not mean that the game can be considered good because of just that. Especially if they can hardly explain why they like it. Not to imply anything, but I have seen FF7 fans on other forums explain why they liked it, and they didn't really prove much. (I don't want to give examples of what they said, by the way.)Quote:
Explain why the general consensus that the game is a good game voted by a big majority of people. That should prove that the game in general/reality is not worst of all.
Fine. I'll admit I should have used a different word other than "fail." Apparently, it caught attention from many people. And apparently you were too lazy to read. I had said that I should have said something along the lines of "I think FF7 is the worst" rather than trying to state that FF7 being the worst is fact. I was wrong there, and already admitted it.Quote:
You didn't offend me by the way, the reason why I replied is because you assumed that fans failed to acknowledge that the game is the worst FF =/
But before I continue on, I'd just like to point out that you have yet to actually explain why you think FF7 is a good game. You have only criticized what I have said without explaining as to why FF7 is a great game. (Ironically, this is similar to something in another thread. Here, you try to refute my claims without having proof for your own.)
EDIT: I must say, it's amazing how when someone doesn't like FF7 or says he or she hates it, people will automatically assume they are "jumping on the hate bandwagon." This just shows how defensive people are over FF7, some even acting like rabid fans.
I think FFVII is among my favourite games of all time, certainly up there in my list of favourite Final Fantasy games. I found the storyline to be sufficiently engaging enough to keep me interested throughout the entire game. I wouldn't say it's the greatest story, but it has enough twists and turns in it satisfy me. The characters were well done, I thought. It was nice to develop characters like Cloud and Aeris to degrees that hadn't previously been seen in FF games (though I'll concede that Cecil had a fair bit in IV).
The music is fantastic and along with FFIX is my joint favourite OST of any game I've played. Some of the pieces such as Still More Fighting, Cid's Theme, Reunion and Interrupted by Fireworks are particularly memorable and fit the bill perfectly. I suppose good music isn't a terribly defining characteristic in the FF series because they've all had pretty stellar OSTs, but VII and IX clinch it for me.
The materia system also added an element of strategy into the game that games such as FFIV and FFVI simply didn't have to the same degree as FFVII. While it was an easy game, I think that deciding which magic was sufficiently useful or beneficial to your stats balanced against having decent HP or STR made one think twice before just going with every single materia you had. It wasn't a great deal of strategy, but it was an improvement over previous games.
The graphics aren't perfect, of course they're not, but they're bearable. Graphics don't make a game for me, provided that they're not irritatingly ugly or impeding the game play in someway. Of course later games were an improvement and the sprites of the previous game felt more polished than the characters of FFVII, but for it's time it was visually impressive and even now, I don't see a problem with the graphics having played visual masterpieces like Metroid Prime.
It was an enjoyable game, people differ in their opinion of it, but saying whether something is the 'best' is very much a subjective thing. If a lot of people like the game, what of it? People will always prefer other games and that they're own personal choice. Everyone is entitled to an opinion of what is the 'best' at the end of the day, without people feeling the need to criticise it.
I've got to enjoy a game for it to be the best and I didn't enjoy ff7 past the first disc. It's a so so game to me.
This "I must hate the game because its popular" bandwagons REALLY getting old. FF7 Is a decent game, and its become a crime to say so now. Im sick of people going on and on and on about the god damn graphics, before ff7, it was 2d sonic people, the first time to see it was amazing, before it FMV's were rare to none existant, it was the first time most people even SAW an FMV.
The Materia was one of the better systems used, every character had development, something not seen at all since ff9, The soundtrack was excellent though slighty dated now and was, and still is, a enjoyable game.
Thank you to everyone who posted on this.
I think you can't definitively say which one is the best. Firstly because when you look at them, each FF game is different.
Secondly, a Final Fantasy is only as good as the memories you have with it.
However, you can analyze the individual components of each game and rate them compared to the others. I think VII is better than the older games because each of the individual aspects of RPG's (story, music, battles, interaction) were improved upon or expanded with this one. However, VIII further refined it and IX perfected them. X took it to another level.
IMO it's up to 7-10, although VII may possibly be overshadowed because the later games improved the individual aspects that made it great. But it was the game that started them and it's story still sticks out to the present day as unique and epic.
Except, it isnt an enjoyable game to me? Seriously, whenever I play this game now, I get no enjoyment what so ever. It might be because it hasnt aged so well or because it reminded me of why I didn't have fun playing it the first time but still, it's really not enjoyable to me. You say it like its fact and not opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wuggly Blight
As do you too. Swish.
Oh your right, I mean, by including the words "to me" which could mean "I think" I'm so stating it as a fact and not an opinion. GOOD WORK SHERLOCKE HOLMES.
Sherlock doesn't have a e on the end, Sherlock. It hasn't aged well seems to be stating a fact over a opinion?
Man, why do these kinds of threads always turn into two or three people going at each others necks? Final Fantasy VII DOES bring out the worst in posters.
Anyway, this game IS awesome in my eyes. About .00001 cm behind IX on my favorite games list. The story is pure gold, and I like the graphics (am I the only one ever?) The only reason IX takes the lead is that IX is more towards the Final Fantasy roots, and leaves me with this awesome nostalgic feeling when I play it.
sort of like you and me on the Clouds Girl thread once upon a timeQuote:
Originally Posted by arcanedude34
Anyway
IMO it was one of the best games ever made... i think theories like the only reason people liked it so much is because it was alot of peoples first FF is stupid, cause i played FF8 and FF9 before 7 and it is now my favorite. And people shouldnt complain about the graphics cause it was the best at the time, and thats what they delivered... people who are used to advent children graphics,and then play FF7 for the first time are obviousley not gonna like the graphics. Anyway i liked it cause i thought it had a very good story, awsome characters, and sure there were some things left un answerd, but it was mostly left for you to decide. I think that square wouldnt just assume that alot of people liked FF7, it must have come from some where. We are all gonna argue on which is the best FF for more years to come, its really in your oppinion which one is the best FF. So for the question... to some its the best and to some it isnt, some people might find that FF4 is the best or FFX, but once again its all for you to decide.
Final Fanstasy VII is my favourite of all. VIII a close second.
Hmmm... I really should put all the ones I've played in order once and for all one day...
We both deserved what we gave each other.Quote:
Originally Posted by aerisfantaticsort of like you and me on the Clouds Girl thread once upon a timeQuote:
Originally Posted by arcanedude34
No, X FTW!!!!
I agree with Tidus_rox, for once. As the ff's went on, they had more refined storys and battle systems and ff10 is one of the better ff's.
tell me about it, if that thread didnt get closed it would the longest thread in forums history, cause of us twoQuote:
Originally Posted by arcanedude34We both deserved what we gave each other.Quote:
Originally Posted by aerisfantaticsort of like you and me on the Clouds Girl thread once upon a timeQuote:
Originally Posted by arcanedude34
Truth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raebus
Although XII kinda throws a ratchet into this nice little machine of logic. XII might have one of the best storys, but it reverted the series into Xenosaga (which I love!) in that you go through a length of gameplay and get rewarded with a cutscene, rather than having them perfectly weave in and out of gameplay.
guys, guys, i'm not hearing the overall message from this thread.. which should be
FINAL FANTASY VII IS THE BEST IN THE SERIES AND THERE IS NO GETTING AROUND IT
the bonus characters have more history than nearly all main characters of other games in the series. most of the cast is interwoven into a history that spans years before the game begins and continues throughout, rather than "hey i'm not doing anything since my girlfriend died, maybe i'll join an adventure!" or whatever else. the atmosphere of the game captured perfectly a pre-millenium sense of foreboding with the idea of a corporation bleeding the planet dry. it strikes a powerful message that was reflected in society at the time. who would have thought right here we have a game where you take the role of the terrorist bomber years before the idea was common. nothing before or after in the series can touch this game for story.
add to this great gameplay, questionable but charming field graphics, meanwhile the battle graphics are impressive for the first 3D RPG. more and better mini-games than anything prior or since
what is there to debate, this game was a revolution.
Oh god, you've lit the fire of this thread once again.
It isn't the best because I didn't enjoy playing it, I lost interest and it was unable to win my interest back. If it was the BEST then everyone would enjoy it, it would keep everyones interest and no matter how much you say "IT IS A REVOLUTION" it won't change the fact that I can barely play it without getting the urge to turn the ps1 off. I'm not the only one, I knew a alot of people who didn't enjoy playing it.
Their was only one good mini game, and thats the bike racing with sword slashing but besides that, the other mini games were TERRIBLE to play.
So in the end, saying "IT IS A REVOLUTION!21! means nothing to me if I don't have fun with the experience of playing it, screw that phrase to hell. I admit it's a good game, I admire it's good qualities but I still can't bring myself to play through it again, so it'll never be the best to me.
come on, you can do better than that. "it's not the best because everyone doesn't like it". well, you can never please all of the people all of the time, but FF7 is certainly the game in the series that pleases MOST of the people MOST of the time. i mean, people say its so popular that it must be overrated, and now i'm hearing it can't be the best because not everyone likes it. so which is it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Raebus
you don't like snowboarding. your opinion is invalid.Quote:
Their was only one good mini game, and thats the bike racing with sword slashing but besides that, the other mini games were TERRIBLE to play.
fascinating. basically everyone is different and not everyone is going to have the same FF as a favourite. you knew that. i'm trying to offer objective reasons why this is better than the others.Quote:
So in the end, saying "IT IS A REVOLUTION!21! means nothing to me if I don't have fun with the experience of playing it, screw that phrase to hell. I admit it's a good game, I admire it's good qualities but I still can't bring myself to play through it again, so it'll never be the best to me.
A simple answer. YES.
Heck, personaly it is the best game i've ever played. Sure, it didn't have the best combat system (FFX is my favourite in this regard), nor the most complex and rewarding mechanics, and it was kinda on the easy side, and to top it all gameplaywise all the characters felt a bit similar when range was not an issue in combat...
But who cares really.. The graphics were/are simply AMAZING, not because of the actual technical quality, but because they had soooo much character... The characters had a stocky-blocky manga look I absolutely loved, they were all deep, interesting and complex, and felt unique. No extras on this one. For e.g Amaranth in FFIX, Kimahri in FFX, and most of the cast on FFVIII (I admit it, i dislike FFVIII a bit, especially the characters..) are really extras to the story. They could be left out with no impact whatsoever..
And FFVII's story.. an amazing blend of cyberpunk,fantasy,sci-fi and mystery (the mystery part somehow augmented by the horrible translation from japanese XP) that felt so damn real, that you could actually relate to. Slums, oppression and resistance, mega-corporations, ecological disaster and eco-terrorists, and the best death scene (although best feels wrong as a word, maybe most amazingly directed death scene is more appropriate). It was an amazing story, and nothing the other FF's had could even compare to that.. Sure Spira's story is really good and involving, and FFIX had a nice neat story.. but that is as far as they go, and i really found half of the story on FFVIII outright stupid. (what do you mean they *forgot* they knew each other because of the GFs? -_-') I'm still in the beginning of FFXII, but so far the story is quite unimpressive, and I do not expect anything big. Points given though for the "political struggle" elements of the story.
While I commend you for listing the game's weaknesses outright before delving into your points, I gotta askQuote:
Originally Posted by MoRmEnGiL
Why is it that in order to like 1 Final Fantasy you have to completely tear apart others?
This is a little bit more pervasive among American fans of the SNES installments, but I see it among this camp too. I have to honestly say that VIII and IX and X each improved more and more on the foundation that was built by VII.
However I will agree that when it comes to storyline and battle-wise it probably does have them all beat. To me these are the 2 most important aspects of RPGs the direction of both was amazing. You really get to see things through the perspectives of each of the main characters at one point or another (more than one for some), it contained tons of meaning which is still be drawn upon today (name another FF that has this) and this was the pinnacle of ATB. The visuals, sounds, and flow of battle all came together into what IMO is the most intense battling experience in FF. Tactics, VIII, IX and X all give it a run for its money but the fact that it can still compete and still gets brought up like this is a testament to the kind of game we're talking about.
And Raebus - i respect and understand your opinion moreso than other dissenters but to me your dissent proves this game's worth. With almost anything that especially great you're going to have a mass support being rallied towards it and a minority who dislike it, this is true for any work of art that is of exceptional quality.
edit: you could say that's what defines a classic.
its close 2 me between FF7 an FF10 but i thank 7 has this 1
(SPOILER)FF7 IS SO THE BEST IT HAS ABSOLUTELY NO FLAWS AND AERIS'S DEATH SCENE HAD ME CRYING LIKE A WATERFALL AND ANYONE WHO DOESNT LIKE THIS GAME CAN GO BURN IN HELL BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY DONT KNOW A GOOD THING WHEN THEY SEE IT AND THEY HAVE NO TASTE AND EVERY OTHER FF SUCKS BUT THIS ONE!!!11!!one!
Just kidding.
I personally, think FF7 is the best, otherwise it wouldn't be my favourite FF. I loved the characters, the story had me hooked the whole time, the Materia system was easy enough to get a hang of, and the FMV graphics were pretty damn good for the time.
I didn't cry at Aeris's death scene, although I was close, but that's mainly because I found the music depressing. Galuf's was sadder for me, showing that you don't have to have 3D FMVs to make an emotional scene.
Some of the music was bland, the translation was pretty poor, and the gameplay became to easy towards the end (I thought so anyway) especially with Knights of the Round on your side.:D The game is not without it's flaws (as with every other FF), but in my opinion it's still the best.
And for the record, every FF is the best in it's own way.
Absolutely... not.
I love this game, but it's not my favourite. Perhaps if it had a less cliché story line (by today's standard), and a more fun/less-static battle system such as Final Fantasy X-2's or Final Fantasy XII's.
It was my first Final Fantasy, and I'm glad I fell in love with the franchise through it.