So?
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So?
Yes, but alot of things are considered piracy
Emulation in and of itself isn't strictly piracy. The theory goes that the hardware required to run the actual game (read: the console) is under copyright protection, but because the software being used doesn't utilize the components that are patented then it doesn't fall under that catagory.
What IS illegal however are the use of BIOS files from the consoles if you don't own the console with that BIOS version, and the use of ROM's if you don't own the game.
Yeah, thanks, and I kind of had a feel for the whole BIOS files if you didn't have the system.
Yeah Maxx pretty much answered it. If you don't own the game you get a ROM for, it's piracy.
I read somewhere it wasn't considered that until you get bios's for whatever system you are trying to emulate. Somewhere in a thread here in fact.
This is a tricky subject anyways.
You could infact correct me if need be.
Yeah, just don't ask or offer for BIOS and you can talk about it and download the emulators at will. I have ran FFX-2 International using PCSX2 and even have a tutorial on how to do it
4 - How to run PS2 games on a PC - Emulators - Final Fantasy Project
Yeah, they call me Bikke the Pirate, I've got ROM franchises. I was just wondering what part of it was piracy.
In the case of Nintendo, this is what they have to say:
Nintendo's official policy is that ROMS are illegal, regardless of if you 'own' the game or not. I'm fairly sure this can extend to all systems, software and music. You don't own the software, you only own the right to use it.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Back Page of any Nintendo game manual from the last several years
a tutorial??Quote:
Originally Posted by Renmiri
hee hee hee
anyway, i think that emulation is all illegal and whatnot and i don't know where the line is (using roms if you own the game anyway, etc.) and frankly i don't care. piracy is a term applied, in this case, when someone copies and sells, which is not the case to the casual emulator such as myself, so really emulation is never piracy- copying and selling roms or bios is, which most people who emulate would never dream of doing, since the internet allows you to find and play pretty much any game you want free anyway.
Well, in practical terms, no one can send me to jail for having emulator software (or just a tutorial about it) on my site but they can send site owners to jail if they make BIOS / ROMS available for download.
Guess what, my site won't be having them. I'm allergic to prison food ;)
I hear Slop tastes good. :greenie:
The whole piracy story is getting on my nerves. "By pirating, you're harming the film industry"... Excuse the expression, but how the smurf can I harm an industry that gives 40 Millions per film to idiots and good-for-nothings like Tom Cruise? I think I'll get very depressive shall he get 39,5 the next time.
I think the whole point is moot. Whatever laws/policies their may be against owning the stuff, it's not enforced. Yeah, playing it in front of a representative of the company will probably get you sent to jail, but I think anyone that stupid should be locked up on general principles anyway. I do use emulators, and I play ROMs. I also utilize every resource at my disposal to get games legitimately. If the games are not availible without using an emulator, than clearly the company is no longer profiting off the games and are just being jerks if they try to sue me for it, and they'll have lost all my respect and probably get quite a bit of bad publicity from it too.
The irony of this law is that whilst Nintendo have a problem with you emulating their games via copies or back-ups, strictly speaking this doesn't apply to original copies. In short you can run it off the CD/DVD, but just not off a ROM dump...Quote:
Originally Posted by JKTrix
If I understand what you're saying, you mean you can run original games on an emulator with no problem. I'd assume that's correct.
Seeing that Nintendo only switched to disc format 6 years ago, anything prior to that would be much harder to 'play the original' on an emulator. Most people don't have the hardware to do that.
With Nintendo's Virtual Console--and Xbox Live to an extent--they're getting around that 'This game is old and I can't buy it anymore so I'll just download it for free' idea. At least in Nintendo's case, as long as the company is in business, all of their games since Day 1 of their existence are protected by copyright laws.
Granted, right now Nintendo probably isn't too concerned with pursuing us with their current success. Unless you're modding your console.
No matter how you personally define it, getting something for free that you would usually have to pay for (regardless of availability in the physical world) is stealing. Piracy is just a generalised term attached to that. I think it's important for those of us who do this kind of stuff (games, music, movies, softwarez, anime, etc) know that it is just plain illegal, and treat it as such. If you have old games, talking about them is fine, but don't make it a point to say that you're playing it on an emulator. Chances they'll come chase you are still low, but you don't need to be waving a flag at them saying 'I stole your old stuff nyah'.
Actually, if you want to get technical about emulation and ROM piracy laws (and I can link this later if anyone needs it, I just have to find it again), it's completely illegal to have any ROMs on in your possession regardless of whether or not you own the game.
However, the exception is when you made the ROM yourself. If you take your own copy of the game and make your own ROM with it, then it's legal. The sad thing is that most people don't have the hardware to do this, especially with arcade boards and cartridges.
But what's a guy to do when the game isn't released in his country or it's so old he can't get ahold of it anymore? Well, I can't say what I do, but it may or may not be legal.
Not at all, software makers abandon their stuff all the time, leaving old customers without support and migration path. People who paid for the stuff are left out to dry just because it isn't cost effective for the big guys to take care of old products.
Abandonware is a small but thriving industry on the web, where people find legal copies of old software favorites and provide support for it.
Except that, in most cases, even abandonware is illegal. In order for abandonware to be legal, you must own and have paid for the original and not be able to get use it on your computer. And there are still too many rules of when and when not abandonware is legal. I'll have to find the site again, and I'll need some incentive to do it, but I can link.
Still, if I want to download a MAME or an NES ROM, even if I have the game or standalone, I can't legally do that. That doesn't fall under the exceptions of abandonware. If I want to legally play these games on my computer, I have to get the proper hardware to copy them to my hard drive myself.
Abandonware is legal by definition. The company owning the licence has the right to make the program freeware any time they like. Once they do so, it becomes abandonware.
I think you're confusing it with the "security copies".
Abandonware Is Still Protected Under Its Copyright.
I told you I could link it. I can link so many more articles if this is insufficient for you.
EDIT: In fact I think I will link a couple more:
Here.
And Here. (This one gets into emulators and ROMs in general. Good to stay on topic.)
FURTHER EDIT: Here's a Nine-Page Document arguing both sides and explaining how nobody wins when it comes to abandonware. Good read if you have the time and patience to read it.
The law is:
"If you have a ROM/ISO downloaded onto your computer, you must delete it in a period of 24 hours."
But, if you need an emulator to run it, it shouldn't be illegal.
Besides, a person made the emulator, why would it be illegal?
My point is more that software companies want to have it both ways. They drop their support for products but still want to be paid like the stuff is new off the shelf, not obsolete and unsupported.
I think that copyright law should be rewritten for software and games. It made sense that book authors would only lose their copyright after 50 years but for software or games I believe 10 years is more than enough. They copy each other, why can't we gamers have the right to play old games as we see fit ? :mad:
No such law exists. Sorry to burst your bubble, but it's illegal to download ROMs. Someone didn't read my links.Quote:
Originally Posted by One Winged God
Even then, you're technically supposed to have ripped, dumped, extracted, whatevered said files by your own means, which would require the use of patented objects (like the stuff that reads a NES cartridge for instance). If you have FFDoS for the GBA and download the ROM, that's still illegal: You're supposed to dump it yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Maxx Power
Right, Psi. That's exactly what I said and people still wanted to argue with me, even after I posted four links to prove my point. I hope you have four more links otherwise people aren't going to believe you either.
Except Nintendo explicitly states that even 'dumping your own' for "any Nintendo system" is not authorized. I can't read a couple of your links (blocked at my job) so I don't know whether this point gets addressed or disproven.
I believe Nintendo's own copyright stance would supercede any standard software laws, as it's their own Intellectual Property.
Nope, Nintendo doesn't get to make law in any country ;)
There is this myth that if you delete a ROM after 24 hours you are safe no matter if it was not yours. If it is your own ROM obtained legally I think you don't have to but if it isn't, I don't think 24 hours makes a difference, you are still wrong, it's just harder for them to catch you.
Nintendo's position and the law are two completly different things. Nintendo doesn't want you to back up your games because they're afraid you'll use them to pirate.
However, the law states that as long as you own a game, you're allowed to make one, and only one, backup copy of your own game (as referenced in these links, but I guess you'll have to read them at home). If you sell your game, your backup copy has to be either destroyed or packaged with your original. They must always be together.
Nintendo disagrees with this law, but unfortunately for them, it's still the law. You may back up your Nintendo games. They don't like it, but you can still do it.
EDIT: Another post got in there. Let me readdress the 24-hour law. There is none. That's something that emulation sites put on their site to give the illusion that what they're doing is legal. I'm not going to relink my links, but if you go up there, it's the third from the top of my four links that talks about the nonexistance of this law.
That is what I thought! What happens is that during those 24 hours you are in possession of illegal goods. Once you destroy them (without reselling it or distributing it) then you are no longer against the law.
So in essence you are just limiting your risk to 24 hours but you are still against the law if you do it.
Well, Renmiri, what you're saying, in essence, is that you could steal a TV from Best Buy and then destroy said TV 24 hours later and you would no longer be breaking the law. You still stole the TV and regardless of whether or not you still have it, you stole it. You can get in trouble with the law even after you destroyed it.
Same with piracy. Just because you deleted your ROM doesn't mean you're in the clear. The fact is that you still downloaded it, so you're still in a position where you could get in legal trouble for it.
Just because you destroy the evidence that you've broken the law, doesn't mean you're in the clear. Chances are, there's still evidence you had that ROM and chances are they could find the pieces to that TV.
Hmm... what if I rename it. =D Purely hypothetically, it's a different file.Quote:
Originally Posted by Renmiri
I see what you mean, but it seems that we have different definitions of Abandoware. Since there is no official definition, neither of us is wrong. In my understanding, Abandonware is a piece of software for which the company has given up the licence. You'll find a plenty of them online. Most SNES/NES ROMs however aren't.
PS: It's all good and fine, but has anybody ever heard of anybody getting busted for downloading a 15 year old ROM?
I posted that before you links I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by The CeejNo such law exists. Sorry to burst your bubble, but it's illegal to download ROMs. Someone didn't read my links.Quote:
Originally Posted by One Winged God
And BTW
But, when did Americans really care about laws?
Cause most of em here don't
Sometimes a company will change its program's license to freeware. Abandonware is completely different.Quote:
Originally Posted by Discord
This document, as well as the other links I provided are the official definition for abandonware. What you're thinking of is when a company changes its license to freeware.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nine-Page Document Linked On Page 2
I think BIOS' and ROMS are legal if their respective consoles and games are no longer in production (or no longer on sale, maybe).
I say to heck with that. If a company is greedy enough to try and search for someone who downloads a NES, then they should go down like that company that tried to sue Nintendo.Quote:
Originally Posted by The CeejSometimes a company will change its program's license to freeware. Abandonware is completely different.Quote:
Originally Posted by Discord
This document, as well as the other links I provided are the official definition for abandonware. What you're thinking of is when a company changes its license to freeware.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nine-Page Document Linked On Page 2
Yeah, Sagen. That document is about how no one wins when it comes to abandonware. They don't win. They're not selling their product and it costs them money to protect it. We don't win. We can't buy their product or legally obtain it. What are we to do? The only answer is illegal, so bah. Let them come after me. Even though I never said I committed these crimes. As a PhD once told me, "an implied answer is no answer." To imply that I engage in illegal activities is not an admission that I engage in illegal activities. And I won't admit it. But yeah. That's about the only thing you can do if you want to play these games. The chances of your being caught and prosecuted are slim. I can't legally tell you to do it, but you know what you're going to do anyway.
Yeah, but that'd mean that all "limited edition" version of Bioshock could be legally downloaded from any site with enough broadband. Wouldn't really work that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Croyles