Mafia - Rules/Strategy/Extra Discussion Thread

Eh, it's just my dead opinion that everything in terms of discussing who is or isn't mafia should be laid out in this thread. Not in private messages between only a certain group of people. I'm sure if the whole group of players knew that DK was private messaging people, then suspicion might have fallen on him sooner. And how does someone defend themselves against an accusation when they don't even know that they're being named as Mafia in a private message that they don't know is being sent? It leaves a lot of people out of the loop.

Yeah PMing is a dirty tactic. Only scum would advocate it. :)

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Originally Posted by Miriel

Eh, it's just my dead opinion that everything in terms of discussing who is or isn't mafia should be laid out in this thread. Not in private messages between only a certain group of people. I'm sure if the whole group of players knew that DK was private messaging people, then suspicion might have fallen on him sooner. And how does someone defend themselves against an accusation when they don't even know that they're being named as Mafia in a private message that they don't know is being sent? It leaves a lot of people out of the loop.

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To be fair, not PMing didn't help you very much :p

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Originally Posted by DK

Yeah PMing is a dirty tactic. Only scum would advocate it. :)

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One has to play dirty to win, if one's enemies are the secretive scummy type that use flamethrowers ;)

You hear that Paul, you firewielding cheat? YOU'RE SCUM

No one likes a flamethrower.

One does have a certain fondness for airstrikes though :D.

They are good for everything. Worms, battlefield, yey.

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Originally Posted by DK

Yeah PMing is a dirty tactic. Only scum would advocate it. :)

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Originally Posted by Radje

One has to play dirty to win, if one's enemies are the secretive scummy type that use flamethrowers ;)

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It's not about playing dirty, it's about playing by the general rules of the game.

Not that Levian ever said that it wasn't allowed, so whatever.

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Originally Posted by Miriel

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Originally Posted by DK

Yeah PMing is a dirty tactic. Only scum would advocate it. :)

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Originally Posted by Radje

One has to play dirty to win, if one's enemies are the secretive scummy type that use flamethrowers ;)

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It's not about playing dirty, it's about playing by the general rules of the game.

Not that Levian ever said that it wasn't allowed, so whatever.

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Lol I do see what you mean, it was more an idea to allow citizens to start their own gang in secret whilst keeping up facades in here. Much like the mafia are doing. Fighting fire with fire in a way.

Not very in the spirit of the game though, which appears to be citizens being slaughtered like cattle.

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Originally Posted by Radje

it was more an idea to allow citizens to start their own gang in secret whilst keeping up facades in here. Much like the mafia are doing. Fighting fire with fire in a way.

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The problem is that no one really knows who's a citizen.

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Originally Posted by Miriel

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Originally Posted by DK

Yeah PMing is a dirty tactic. Only scum would advocate it. :)

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Originally Posted by Radje

One has to play dirty to win, if one's enemies are the secretive scummy type that use flamethrowers ;)

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It's not about playing dirty, it's about playing by the general rules of the game.

Not that Levian ever said that it wasn't allowed, so whatever.

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I don't see any option but to allow it, we can't control people's actions in PM's and on MSN or wherever they may communicate with eachother.

What I meant with the list was to force you all to think more carefully about the game, take a stand, discuss etc. I did not mean that the list would be a vote. I said that you couldn't vote until you've made a list. Implying that even after the list, you'd have to pick one person to vote for, as per usual.

By the number of votes, I can see this might have lead to confusion and perhaps also hasty decisions as we're so close to the deadline. I suggest we extend the Day a bit, so more people will get the chance to vote. I'm gonna get up for school in 7 hours, so perhaps around then?

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Originally Posted by Levian

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Originally Posted by Miriel

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Originally Posted by DK

Yeah PMing is a dirty tactic. Only scum would advocate it. :)

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Originally Posted by Radje

One has to play dirty to win, if one's enemies are the secretive scummy type that use flamethrowers ;)

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It's not about playing dirty, it's about playing by the general rules of the game.

Not that Levian ever said that it wasn't allowed, so whatever.

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I don't see any option but to allow it, we can't control people's actions in PM's and on MSN or wherever they may communicate with eachother.

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All you need to say is that discussions relating to who is or isn't mafia should happen in THIS thread so that everyone who is playing can be a part of it. Especially if someone is accusing someone else of being Mafia. If they don't do it in this thread and instead private message a handful of people about it then how is that person supposed to defend themselves? Or if they do talk about it outside this thread, at least post the PMs the so that it's not just a handful of people ganging up together to make decisions while everyone else doesn't know where any of this is coming from.

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Originally Posted by Miriel

All you need to say is that discussions relating to who is or isn't mafia should happen in THIS thread so that everyone who is playing can be a part of it. Especially if someone is accusing someone else of being Mafia. If they don't do it in this thread and instead private message a handful of people about it then how is that person supposed to defend themselves? Or if they do talk about it outside this thread, at least post the PMs the so that it's not just a handful of people ganging up together to make decisions while everyone else doesn't know where any of this is coming from.

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Like the mafia do? I don't understand why you see under handing as so wrong when it is happening amongst everyone in the mafia, the cop + whoever the citizens are probably, and maybe even the occasional civilian par. I don't mean everyone stay quiet, say nothing and just vote for who they want without expressing why, but more act like the mafia do in working out their target in secret, and making their strike publicly and vocally.

However, i've reconsidered the idea, it does seem really unsporting.

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Originally Posted by Miriel

All you need to say is that discussions relating to who is or isn't mafia should happen in THIS thread so that everyone who is playing can be a part of it. Especially if someone is accusing someone else of being Mafia. If they don't do it in this thread and instead private message a handful of people about it then how is that person supposed to defend themselves? Or if they do talk about it outside this thread, at least post the PMs the so that it's not just a handful of people ganging up together to make decisions while everyone else doesn't know where any of this is coming from.

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Honey, now it's great you want it fair I get that. BUT you have to think, if someone claims they are the cop and the person speculates someone. ANd they are right, they inform someone who then posts it. That person Then has their name in the open. If they really aren't the cop, the mafia will know it's one of their own but if it's not, they are telling whoever the truth, You just got rid of one of the civies main assets. The mafia will target them and bang dead.

I understand there should be reasons but you cant just toss someone under the bus like that. Well I can't

The point of the game is to analyze the posts in this thread in order to figure out who is or isn't mafia. How can you do that if people are deliberating amongst themselves who Mafia is or isn't and that discussion isn't happening in this thread?

That was the whole point of me making a post about it in the first place. You can't exactly do that kind of thing in real life Mafia. And as far as I know, in online Mafia you're not supposed to do that either (according to the Mafia wiki Levian linked to in the beginning).

It's different if you come into this thread going, "well I just received a PM letting me know who Mafia is, so I'm going to vote for..." Because at least then, the group as a whole knows that this is what's going on. And that can lead to interesting questions like who is sending those PMs? Is the person sending the PM Mafia or Cop or a citizen trying to be funny? It has the potential to make it interesting or get the ball rolling on conversation and investigation.

The part that is unfun is when a person comes into the thread saying, "I'm going to vote for so-and-so because I have a feeling they're Mafia" when in fact they're voting that way because of a private message they got from someone else informing them that so-and-so was Mafia.

YOU SEE?

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Originally Posted by Lekana

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Originally Posted by Miriel

All you need to say is that discussions relating to who is or isn't mafia should happen in THIS thread so that everyone who is playing can be a part of it. Especially if someone is accusing someone else of being Mafia. If they don't do it in this thread and instead private message a handful of people about it then how is that person supposed to defend themselves? Or if they do talk about it outside this thread, at least post the PMs the so that it's not just a handful of people ganging up together to make decisions while everyone else doesn't know where any of this is coming from.

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Honey, now it's great you want it fair I get that. BUT you have to think, if someone claims they are the cop and the person speculates someone. ANd they are right, they inform someone who then posts it. That person Then has their name in the open. If they really aren't the cop, the mafia will know it's one of their own but if it's not, they are telling whoever the truth, You just got rid of one of the civies main assets. The mafia will target them and bang dead.

I understand there should be reasons but you cant just toss someone under the bus like that. Well I can't

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Oh wow. It's even worse if the cop is the one sending private messages to people saying I think so-and-so is a Mafia and not letting the rest of the town know. That just sucks in my opinion. It's the duty of the cop to inform the town of their suspicions, not just telling one or two people through private message.

Btw, sorry if I'm derailing the thread. I'll stop arguing this after this post! :p

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Originally Posted by Radje

Like the mafia do?

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That's the whole point of the game, though. They have that advantage and, ordinarily, the citizens shouldn't.

It would suck to be a citizen outside the United Citizens Gang of Cool, though. Every day you come to the thread, see UCGC say "today we're lynching Member X because of reasons we refuse to share!" and there's nothing you can do to change their minds, and all those outside of this gang - or who even disagree with them - are suspected of being mafia. You can't outvote them because there's more of them than you, and you have no allies. Then eventually the gang decides you're a mafia because you're not voting with them (or if you are voting with the gang, you're obviously a mafia trying to trick them!), and lynches you. "Whoops! Thought you were mafia. Oh well, not one of us so we don't care".

It's a game, it's supposed to be fun. I think having more fun (and yet having a greater chance to lose) is preferable to ruthlessness and, tbh, if I was a citizen who was kept in the dark I'd probably root for the mafia.

Part of the strategy of not telling users of having PM contact is because it can create suspicion towards you. If anyone comes forward saying a cop contacted them then almost instantly people may either accuse the person of lying and being Mafia, or assume that the cop that contacted them was Mafia. This is perhaps best exemplified through DK's actions just before he was killed off. Even in the aftermath people began to accuse those who had said they had been contacted as Mafia. So really making such information public is akin to drawing a bullseye on your forehead.

Still, it makes it more intense. Again the whole throwing someone under the bus thing. You can't just sacrifice someone like that. If You were given wrong info, YOU are going to get targeted next. I'm not setting anyone up like that SORRY MIRIEL.

But as for my vote, I'ma say Faris. She is popping up here and there and seems to only be posting enough to cover herself from major suspicion. I'ma go for Faris.

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Originally Posted by Miriel

The point of the game is to analyze the posts in this thread in order to figure out who is or isn't mafia. How can you do that if people are deliberating amongst themselves who Mafia is or isn't and that discussion isn't happening in this thread?

That was the whole point of me making a post about it in the first place. You can't exactly do that kind of thing in real life Mafia. And as far as I know, in online Mafia you're not supposed to do that either (according to the Mafia wiki Levian linked to in the beginning).

It's different if you come into this thread going, "well I just received a PM letting me know who Mafia is, so I'm going to vote for..." Because at least then, the group as a whole knows that this is what's going on. And that can lead to interesting questions like who is sending those PMs? Is the person sending the PM Mafia or Cop or a citizen trying to be funny? It has the potential to make it interesting or get the ball rolling on conversation and investigation.

The part that is unfun is when a person comes into the thread saying, "I'm going to vote for so-and-so because I have a feeling they're Mafia" when in fact they're voting that way because of a private message they got from someone else informing them that so-and-so was Mafia.

YOU SEE?

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The internet and real life games have to be seperate in their rules because over a longer time period people have more time to speculate and much more things to speculate on. Without being able to hear the tone in people's voices or even chatting to them on msn for people like me who are yet to befriend anyone to that level it can be next to impossible for someone to decide upon whether someone is mafia or not. We've already seen the effects someone pretending to be a cop can have on the whole trust issue, and DKs stroke of annoying genius has prevented anyone from trusting another cop who comes forward.

It would be a lot more fun if the way you describe worked properly, but unfortunately things you type here can't go away like memories of spoken words can in the offline version. People can flick back and check what you've done or said with incredible ease and so people are having to be careful of both attracting mafia attention and also presenting themselves in such a manner that their own enigmatic teammates vote to have them killed.

I agree with hannah about the pms/out of thread talk about the game. In the live version of the game people can't secretly get together and plot unless it is night and you have a specific role. All talk that goes on during the day should be laid out for the whole town to see.

Remember guys that DK is/was mafia so don't believe a word he says about this game. Just because he is dead doesn't mean he won't try to continue to play his role, even though he probably shouldn't.

Congrats on finding your first mafia!

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Originally Posted by Miriel

It's different if you come into this thread going, "well I just received a PM letting me know who Mafia is, so I'm going to vote for..." Because at least then, the group as a whole knows that this is what's going on. And that can lead to interesting questions like who is sending those PMs? Is the person sending the PM Mafia or Cop or a citizen trying to be funny? It has the potential to make it interesting or get the ball rolling on conversation and investigation.

The part that is unfun is when a person comes into the thread saying, "I'm going to vote for so-and-so because I have a feeling they're Mafia" when in fact they're voting that way because of a private message they got from someone else informing them that so-and-so was Mafia.

YOU SEE?

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I see your point, I do. It would suck if all discussion occured behind the scenes and this thread functioned as a voting thread with short posts such as "k, I'm gonna vote for this guy" and no discussion at all. I think the best would be a minimal amount of stuff occuring privately and then the majority of the discussion happening in this thread. That would be the most entertaining for everyone. But unfortunately, it's not the best tactic for the players. What do you think is easier for the cop? Trying to influence the voting in public where everyone can see it, including the mafia? or contacting a few people the cop has investigated and found to be "citizen"? The last option has the least risk involved. Least entertaining too probably, but then again, is he really a cop? DK's PM was posted here after his death, and it was a nice twist really, DK tried his best to survive a few rounds extra.

This game is usually much different in real life, since obviously there can't be any discussion without everybody hearing it, but this is the internet and it's hard to control that people don't interact privately, the best thing you could do as a moderator to avoid that would be encouraging everyone to not do it, and just hope they didn't.

We can't really compare the wiki on the other page with EoFF because of two things.

1. Their games always involve less than 10 players, we had 22. I'd probably not trust many if I were in a game with less than 10 people. I'd stick to myself.
2. They don't know eachother, they're all strangers to eachother. Most people in this game have friends also in this game, where some bonds are stronger than others. Some talking outside the thread is just bound to happen.

Of course, those talking outside the thread should still be very skeptical to eachother, you never know what's true or not, not much unlike the discussion in this thread. :p But still, if there's many people having a strong dislike against outside talk, then we'll have to do something about that in the next round of Mafia. I'll make a short survey when everything is finished here with a few questions about what they thought about the game, what could've been better etc. So definitely bring that up then if you feel that it sucks.

Gosh darnit, Levia.

There are examples in this thread where a couple people have made posts like, "I've spoken to someone I trust and he has indicated to me that so-and-so is Mafia."

That is completely different from someone not posting at all about the stuff that they're discussing behind the scene.

If someone brings those outside discussions INTO this thread, that's great. It brings people into the loop.

But what about all the stuff that happens and it doesn't even get mentioned here until after the fact? If no one ends up PMing you, then what? Sucks to be you? Too bad?

That's not cool.

Also, the point of the cops are to inform and lead the citizens. And yeah, they're supposed to be at risk, that's the nature of their role. But if they're too concerned with their own safety in this game that they're willing to leave a chunk of the citizens out of the loop... well, screw that. Again, not cool.

Why is it so bad to want the majority of the game to happen in the game thread? It makes sense to me.

Just so you know, even though I have no idea who is what at all - you guys at least know who yourselves are! - I still find this thing entertaining.

EDIT: I 100% agree with the tactic of the cop investigating people, finding out who is a citizen and then talking with them privately. I don't see why they can't also involve Miriel if she's that desperate to know what is being said.

BoB, sometimes you just don't make sense.

I already know who everyone is, I'm not desperate to know anything.

Also, Levia, I think you've done a fabulous job with this whole thing. :up: to you!

I was just wondering why you personally were so against the talking behind doors. I don't think it makes this any less entertaining - maybe even more so, as it adds more mystery to the whole thing.

I still think the cop should have someone else state their findings though. It'd only take one lynching to find out if that spokesperson is legit or not, and if they are legit, then anyone who doesn't vote to lynch whoever they say to lynch is clearly a mafia too. If they weren't legit, then you know who to lynch!

But then I suppose there might be flaws with that plan too, such as the mafia pretending to be a cop etc. Of course, they'd soon be discovered. It's the only way I can think of that would give the citizens some good odds.

Private discussions were always going to happen though.

Look who's talking Mr. I just like to argue things!

Also, i really do believe it makes it more fun for everyone if findings, discussions, whatever that happens outside of the game are brought into the game so that everyone can participate.

In that case, I should note that a while back I asked DK if he was a mafia and he said no. He also said he wasn't a cop. Everyone should believe that because Dan wouldn't lie to me, he's my best friend.

:(

It might be more fun but it might not be the best way for the citizens to win.

EDIT: I really do just like to argue things.

It is the best way for the citizen to win.

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Originally Posted by Miriel

It is the best way for the citizen to win.

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Originally Posted by Miriel

Why is it so bad to want the majority of the game to happen in the game thread? It makes sense to me.

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I completely agree with this. The majority of the game should definitely happen in the game thread. Again, only a minimal talking outside the thread should happen, if any talking at all.

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Originally Posted by Miriel

But what about all the stuff that happens and it doesn't even get mentioned here until after the fact? If no one ends up PMing you, then what? Sucks to be you? Too bad?

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Yeah, that does suck. That's the only bad part I see about outside talking, but that one thing is also very sucky. I don't really know what the best thing to do about that is really, well except disallowing outside talk completely. I kinda want to ask everyone if they prefer outside talking or no outside talking at the end of the game and let the majority decide. But being left out isn't always a bad thing, though. Much like the game thread, you can't completely trust what people say to you in a PM, it's all still a game. However, I'm not really troubled either way if we allow this or not, I'm not playing this game, so it should be up to you all to decide how you want to play.

And one last thing, if everything that was done outside the game was immediately brought into the game, it might ruin the purpose of why it was said outside the game in the first place, making it all pointless. That's probably why it's only revealed after it's not relevant anymore.

The next game will include additional roles, so talking in private may not be such a smart thing to do then anyway.

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Originally Posted by Miriel

Also, Levia, I think you've done a fabulous job with this whole thing. :up: to you!

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thank u, hunny<3

I'd like to request to either table the discussion on how to play or move it to another thread or PMs, especially from dead people and those not playing. It's really distracting when you're trying to read through the "real" posts and play the game.

Yes, we can discuss the game after it's finished.