Ethniclawls

So today in Engineering seminar, we learned about Diversity.

Of course the topic stayed mostly on racial issues (This is Arkansas btw), and I think it would've been interesting to see if there would have been any changes between the way it was held (moderated by a black woman professor), or if Ms. Gigi had held it (an asian woman) or Ms. Schneider (a white woman), or Dr. Cassady (a white man).

there was very little discussion on economic and gender issues, and as I was walking away from class, I kept thinking of stereotypes I would have liked to discuss.

Things like 'Girls should talk on phones and chase boys' and 'Girls should not concern themselves with computing', or 'People who live in trailers are white trash and are addicts (to drugs, cigarettes, alcohol etc)'. This one got touched on a bit-- 'Black girls are good for nothing but their genitals and rear end'

The question was raised 'What sub-group of people do most people consider 'Privileged'?' and my first answer was 'the rich', but after thinking that over for a while, I decided a better answer, which happens to include 'the rich' as a factor almost 100% of the time (see my poem in the Writer's Corner :]) would be "Politicians". Merely being rich did not stop Paris Hilton from spending time in jail, but who was the last politician jailed?

I'd like to know more stereotypes that you find applicable to you (as in, they would be applied but would be wrong), or that bother you that they exist still in society?

Also, do you consider yourself Privileged?

When that was asked in seminar, I felt compelled to raise my hand and say yes. My family is fairly set as 'Upper lower class' (I'm not sure what the actual economical thresholds on these terms are. Can someone provide me a link?), but that's by American standards. And just as our waistlines and egos are engorged, so are our standards of living. I mean, I'm typing this on a $1500 laptop attending a $12000 a year school. There are definitely billions of people in the world that can't afford the $100 'OLPC' computer, nor their governments afford (or care enough?) to send them to a public secondary or elementary school. Also, I'm free to wear what I like the same as any man does (with the sole exception being I must cover my breasts in public), which is a privilege some women do not enjoy; I can have my air conditioned or blown with an electric fan, or scented. (I can't have it heated though, thanks to fire hazards;]). I have a free ride up the hill to my classes if I hurry in time to catch it every 13 minutes from 7 to 6.

I could even vote for president or run for president one day (when I reach a certain age). Used to women could do neither. (but immigrant tax-payers still can't)

How are you guys privileged?

im a skateboarder and snowboarder so people usually see me as a pothead who likes to piss people off.

its so far off though. im very nice and have never smoked anything in my life.

i wouldnt consider myself specialy privlaged. i might be but i refuse help from anyone even family. ive never borrowed a cent from my family and have no intentions too.

i did not buy my computer and i live at home. i plan on changing both of those as soon as i can find a enw job. im giving my parents my computer when i move out and buying a new one for myself or building one. its not so much that im not privalged as much as its i dont want help from others.

Ahh, Engineering ethics. Fun stuff. Basically it's "don't copy," "don't keep others down," and try not to blow stuff up on purpose, but if you do, it's cool, because you're an engineer, and therefore, badass."

Bill Clinton has a nice long impeachment hearing, but being the awesome politician he was, garnered a 70% approval rating even out of office. Politicians don't go to jail unless they break the law, something I'm sure they know well.

The worst thing I hear is the word "nigger" being thrown around, but seeing as my school is predominantly black, so it doesn't matter.

I feel that many stereotypes are applicable to me. I (used to be) good at math, can't drive that well, am fairly short; among others. As for privileged, I had always thought I was lower Middle-class, until I found out that my dad makes near 100k. After that, I started asking for even less.

In my race relations class, we spent an entire class trying to figure out the "rank" of American society. Everyone, every single person agreed that white males were on top. Then everything after white males differed from person to person.

Race, class and gender are pretty much tangled up together to determine who gets the most priviledges in this country. You say politicians get the most privilege, but most politicians ARE white males and whites in general do have the most wealth in this country (wealth being the combined total of assets owned, minus any debt owed).

Anyway, I'm 2nd generation American which means my parents were immigrants, and they both came over with very very very little money. We went through a lot of rough times in terms of our financial situation which I thought was beneficial in some ways because it taught me to appreciate money so much more.

Nowadays, I'd say that we're doing really well. Middle class at the very least. We have a really nice house in the suburbs, parents drive a Lexus, and I go to a fairly prestigious private University.

I'd say we're doing pretty good. I wouldn't really say "privileged" though, at least not for my parents. I think that word has connotations of luxury and reward based on arbitrary things. And nothing was ever handed easily to my parents. They faced their share of racism and discrimination but they fought through it to get to where they are today. I seriously don't know of any other person who is as hardworking as my Mom. It's almost scary how much both my parents work.

For myself, yeah, I do think that I'm privileged. I've benefited from my parents hard work without doing all that much myself.

White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack

Read that. Then you'll see just how privileged all of us white people are. Well, mostly. This was written in the 80s, so some information is definitely dated, but a lot of it pertains to both race, class and gender. It's pretty eye opening.

There are lots of things I have now that I've never had before. It's hard to take something for granted when you're not used to it. But other things, like 3 meals a day, the availability of decent nutrition, indoor plumbing, clean water, and clothes for all kinds of different weather are things I just have without thinking of them. And that's just on the human scale. There are many things I have as a white woman in the west that women the world over go without.

Hello neighbor! So, you're in Arkansas. huh? I'm in Missouri but work in Arkansas. Just thought I'd share that.

Anyway, I wouldn't really call myself "privilaged" by any means. However, I do have it a lot better than a lot of people I know and hear about. I have a wonderful family, a good job, a house to live in (even if we are renting at the moment), a good car to drive, and I could go on for a while too. I like to call myself blessed rather than "privilaged". "Privilaged" to me is like getting things you didn't earn, or getting to do things and go places simply because of who you are or who you know. I worked for the majority of the things I have and the privilages I have. The rest are gifts, prizes, or things I have found.

I would say that we are 'well-off', but not 'privileged,' exactly, at least in an American sense. In a world sense, absolutely.

My family makes six figures a year, but both of my parents work their asses off to do it. My dad works on most weekends and about 10 hours a day, in addition to umpiring baseball during half the year at night. My mom does accounting for a non-profit company. I think that's the difference between 'well-off' and 'privileged'. People that are well-off make quite a bit of money, but work hard for it. Those who are privileged just get output regardless of input.

We live in a four-bedroom house in a fairly nice part of town, that cost us about $140,000 eight years go when we bought it.

I'd say a stereotype that bothers me would be that white people who make a lot of money are simply byproducts of some sort of good-ole-boy system. Which isn't true at all, in our case.

My dad came a long way. He's from a typical hick family, and was the first person in his family to graduate from college. Pretty much all of my mom's side went and graduated from college. My grandfather is a finished dissertation away from a doctorate. We've had some rougher times as far as finances go as a family, but my mother's parents have saved so much that we were always able to borrow from them. There's no real need for that, anymore.

So, I would call myself 'well-off'. I've paid for most of my assets myself (albeit through graduation gifts from my mother's side of the family), but my parents cover my living expenses. My school costs $30,000 a year, but I don't have to pay for most of that because of scholarships.

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Originally Posted by Tavrobel

Ahh, Engineering ethics. Fun stuff. Basically it's "don't copy," "don't keep others down," and try not to blow stuff up on purpose, but if you do, it's cool, because you're an engineer, and therefore, badass."

I feel that many stereotypes are applicable to me. I (used to be) good at math, can't drive that well, am fairly short; among others.

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Yeah engineering ethics was last week. we had to read exerpts of ethical issues commonly facing engineers and decide where the lines would be drawn in areas like admiting flaws or accepting professional gifts or services.

You're asian?

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Originally Posted by Miriel

You say politicians get the most privilege, but most politicians ARE white males and whites in general do have the most wealth in this country (wealth being the combined total of assets owned, minus any debt owed).

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I say politicians because just being white male and rich didn't help the CEO of Enron :} (and it wouldn't've helped the other guy either, if he hadn't died)

You all really need to read that article I posted. By being white in the USA you are SO much more privileged than you're aware of. There are lots of things you take advantage of that you just don't realize.

And for all of you middle class kids out there who don't think you're privileged, I'll break it down.

How many of you questioned going to college? How many of you had many, many problems with your college applications? How many of you had no idea how to write an entrance essay? How many of you didn't know what to wear to scholarship interviews? How many of you know how to order food in nice restaurants?

For those of you who are older, when you got your first job how did you know how to negotiate your salary and benefits? How many of you had problems knowing how to speak to potential employers and coworkers?

How many of you have sat in a doctor's office and felt completely uncomfortable and alienated because you weren't filling out insurance forms? How many of you have felt uncomfortable making reservations at airlines or hotels? Paying bills over the phone?

Privilege doesn't mean things you see. Privileges are things you have that you don't think twice about. It is something you are given without even realizing it.

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Originally Posted by rubah

but who was the last politician jailed?

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As far as I know, Don Seigleman. Not aware of anyone since then. He applied for an appeal and requested that he be let out on bond while waiting for said appeal. That leaves the question, "How does he walk with balls that big?"

But on topic, I don't know yet. I don't have time to read all this because I need to leave for work in three minutes. I'll get back to you after work.

I'm privileged in much the same ways as most people here - I can make my own decisions with what I wear, where I go each day, what I watch on TV, what I purchase, etc.

Privileged is not something I would consider a politician to be. If you asked me who the most privileged people are in the world, I would say "White people born in and growing up in expensive localities and due - or possibly having already received - an inheritance."

The reason I say this is because politicians are, in some senses, not privileged at all. I personally have the privilege of going out and sleeping with a hooker with no strings attached. If I was to yell at someone in an angry fashion in public, be it a friend, a family member or - heaven forbid - a stranger (I don't think I yell at strangers, though) I would not find myself in the local papers the next day. I would not have to worry about bribery and blackmail in such a way. If you are well off from the moment you are born, then you are truly privileged, because you do not have to become famous for any role you play in any group. You already have the money, you already have the house, you already have the car.

That is privilege. Life as you want to live it, not for anyone else but yourself.

Stereotypes. I am Roman Catholic, I can hold my alcohol pretty well and I like to argue/fight....what am I? XD

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Originally Posted by The Ceej

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Originally Posted by rubah

but who was the last politician jailed?

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As far as I know, Don Seigleman. Not aware of anyone since then. He applied for an appeal and requested that he be let out on bond while waiting for said appeal. That leaves the question, "How does he walk with balls that big?"

But on topic, I don't know yet. I don't have time to read all this because I need to leave for work in three minutes. I'll get back to you after work.

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I'm expecting a long, well-thought out post by you within five hours, also some 'wtf was he?' on don seigleman.

I'm rather privileged. We're not RICH, but we're upper middle class, we live in a really nice town, we drive a nice car... yeah.

"White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack"

If that's anything like what I think it is, I think I already agree with it and don't need to read it. Regardless I'll read it after this thread. This topic means a lot to me for different reasons than it would for you (because you still value your ethnicity and I don't even acknowledge it except grudgingly as a biological taxonomy). Just stating the different viewpoints...

White people don't rank as privileged and every time I hear it I think about all of my white friends (what little I have left) and how they aren't supremely rich people who "step upon" other races every day in their tyrannical rule of us all. And even if you're not talking about that any more, in general the notion of 'rich white man' are limited to a small group of people who are only the way they are being hundreds of years ago rich white men in Europe paid for the development of technology that allowed them to live eternally wealthy lives (excluding those who died shortly after losing all their wealth, like in the great depression). At least that's my oversimplified defense.

If I had to pick a privileged group it would be whoever is capable of gaining the most from government socialistic programs. I would categorize those people as 'the lazy', but at the same time I'm expecting people will defend such people 'hey they lost their jobs and it's hard to find work nowadays'. Okay sure. Or some sort of social Darwinism justification. I still stand by my bias/bigotry :)

Generally speaking we're all very privileged: we live in a '1st world' country, I owe money to pay for a car and yet I'm richer than most people on the planet, most of whom don't own a car. I have this statement I tend to say which puts it in perspective: "We didn't steal this land from the Indians just so I have to not waste my food/not be able to litter/do anything I want" -- our place in the social order of things is at the very top, no matter who we are.

Also, have you noticed that the difference between your material goods are not very different than the material goods of the super rich? They also have: cars, clothes, houses, golf clubs, tvs, microwaves, ovens, fridges, beds, etc. Compare our relative happiness to say, Russia. Russia has access to worldwide television, but have none of the material goods, so they know what they are missing out.

So those are the two views I hold on this issue. It's basically caused me to actually 'value' or 'prefer' one 'ethnicity' over the rest ("white" people) for a new reason now (other than socialisation). Thankfully I don't use this as an excuse to stereotype against the rest, but you can count on me for cheering for things like a 'white people bursary', which has existed, and, curiously, was widely criticized by every other ethnicity.

Actually I'm starting to stereotype against other ethnicities now that I think about what I know. I better stop thinking. Thinking sucks.

I realize I'm about to start a losing argument, but y'all don't know what privilege is. Having your own transportation isn't a privilege. It's something you bought or was bought for you. Knowing that you have reliable transportation is the privilege. Something you get without having to do anything for it. That is privilege. Knowing you can have a hot meal whenever you want is a privilege. Eating in fancy restaurants is not.

Here are some definitions. Emphasis mine.

1. a right, immunity, or benefit enjoyed only by a person beyond the advantages of most: the privileges of the very rich.
2. a special right, immunity, or exemption granted to persons in authority or office to free them from certain obligations or liabilities: the privilege of a senator to speak in Congress without danger of a libel suit.
3. a grant to an individual, corporation, etc., of a special right or immunity, under certain conditions.
4. the principle or condition of enjoying special rights or immunities.

I don't think I'm terribly privileged in comparison to some people I know. BoB's post was spot-on in my view. My life is not under constant media scrutiny, whereas politician's lives are. Those who inherit wealth and have not necessarily earned it but have received it by virtue of having rich relatives is very privileged, I think. I mean, looking at foa's post a lot of those aren't as appropriate to a Brit as they are to a Yank so I'm not quite sure my life could be compared that way.

I do know from having two parents surviving solely on state benefits and a police pension my father was entitled to (which, incidentally, he didn't know about for quite some time) for a significant portion of my childhood I wouldn't say I've been terribly privileged by the standards of my country. Compared to, say, someone living in eastern europe I'm ridiculously privileged. Having heard stories about Polish immigrants and what life is like for a lot of people in Poland surprised me when people in Britain (myself included) take for granted what we have always had, always expect to have and never imagine things being any other way.

Edit: I meant foa's first post as she posted while I was in the process of typing this post out!

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Originally Posted by rubah

Yeah engineering ethics was last week. we had to read exerpts of ethical issues commonly facing engineers and decide where the lines would be drawn in areas like admiting flaws or accepting professional gifts or services.

You're asian?

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Don't refuse a gift from the mafia. That's not how it works.

Was it that obvious?

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Originally Posted by fire_of_avalon

I realize I'm about to start a losing argument, but y'all don't know what privilege is.

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Yeah, those are privileges...everybody has them, but mostly lazy people use them. So I can just take out all of the self righteous babbling and just say 'lazy people are the best'.

All right. I'm really sick and tired right now, so I'm not all here. At least I'm trying to be.

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Originally Posted by rubah

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Originally Posted by The Ceej

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Originally Posted by rubah

but who was the last politician jailed?

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As far as I know, Don Seigleman. Not aware of anyone since then. He applied for an appeal and requested that he be let out on bond while waiting for said appeal. That leaves the question, "How does he walk with balls that big?"

But on topic, I don't know yet. I don't have time to read all this because I need to leave for work in three minutes. I'll get back to you after work.

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I'm expecting a long, well-thought out post by you within five hours, also some 'wtf was he?' on don seigleman.

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First, Don Seigleman made national news as the former governor of Alabama who was facing charges for crime he committed while in office. He still ran for a second non-consecutive term against present governor, Bob Riley while facing said charges. He lost the election and the trial. If you didn't know this, you haven't been paying attention.

Now, before I get into the rest of this, I'll have to remind you that I'm not all here and that I don't really have a lot of firm opinions on the topic. I'm a white male, but I don't consider myself privileged. I'm poor. I'm trying hard to make life work for me. I have a broken tooth and can't get it fixed because my insurance doesn't cover dental. As a bipolar, I have the whole world looking at me as if I have some kind of mental disorder, though I'm working on a plan to change the way bipolar is viewed in the medical industry. If being a white male was as privileged as they say it is, I believe it would be a lot easier for me, along with a few other white, male bipolars to get bipolar taken off the list of mental illnesses.

No. Being a white male does not make you privileged. Just because the majority in power are white males, doesn't mean all white males have that kind of power. I'm sorry. The logic is flawed there.

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Originally Posted by The Ceej

No. Being a white male does not make you privileged. Just because the majority in power are white males, doesn't mean all white males have that kind of power. I'm sorry. The logic is flawed there.

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I don't think anyone is trying to make the argument that ALL white males are privileged or that ONLY white males are privileged.