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I kept the question vague. It's a good lure. Question: Would you say that FFVII is modelled after our Earth but in the future? Or would you say it is just a completely fantastical world in another dimension that hopefully we can visit in the next life but remains separated from this one? This has been killing me lately. See, I like to think it's more futuristic! With a touch of fantastical.:cool: < yeah, I'm still cool. Don't look at me like some nerd with no concept of reality!
Fantasy. And I will insist that for every FF.
You know people always ask me why VII is my favorite FF. I think you've finally just opened a new door for explanation. It does remind me of our Earth in the future. Hell, there's a shutdown church in it.
Good point.
Exactly, it almost makes me want to say FFVII is the one exception! I mean FFX is definately fantasy! But with the church and cell phones (heehee) it does bring up curiosity! I'm staying with the stance that it is futuristic yet fantastical. :love: You are my new best friend. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Omni-Odin
Ive also always kinda thought VIIs world was a little like ours. Probably one of the reasons why it is one of my Favourites as well, because it gives you a break from castles and kings etc:)
Calling any of the games "medieval" is kinda inaccurate because there has never been magic, dwarves, or monsters at any point on earth. If you play the first Final Fantasy the whole thing seems really mystical until you get to the last Elemental Shrine and there's robots running around operating computers.
Every Final Fantasy mixes different elements from different times and such. VII's does it really blatantly, as your 2 characters in the beginning has one with a sword and the other with a gun. Final Fantasy shows that cultures move in different directions, not forward or backward in terms of how advanced they are. For example, Shinra's space program would be considered very out of date by our standards, but some of their weaponry is probably more advanced. The whole game is fantasy fiction, it's not supposed to be based on any reality, really, so forget those notions.
Every Final Fantasy world is purely fantastical.
Ignore Supernova, it's arguably the dumbest idea and oversight that Square ever had.
By the time the continents collide in order for the world to be laid out anything like that, the sun may well have gotten so hot that all the water on earth will have evaporated. Actually I forget how that timeline went.
No, I don't think this game is set on our earth. It's implied in Seph's Super Nova that it's supposed to be earth though, but seeing as that's just a fancy Stock Footage Attack it can't really be viewed as canon.
Hasn't some "official" source said that it's "Gaia" or something?
Yeah, I'm still sticking with my beliefs.Quote:
Originally Posted by MKusanagi
I don't even think our sun is even hot enough to go supernova anyways.
To be sure, it is a substitute for our Earth. I consider it an alternate reality, a sort of Earth that could have been under different circumstances.
A whole big earth with one city and about ten communities? No, it doesn't resemble anything like reality.
I think certain aspects of our world were borrowed as a sort of inspiration for FFVII. For instance, the whole new technology and urbanisation ruining the natural order of the world, genetically modified life and so on are issues faced by both our world and FFVII. I don't think it was specifically copied, but there are certainly similarities if you look for them.
I agree it would probably be a parallel universe. I think the point of Final Fantasy is that it is different from reality that's part of the charm of being a fantasy even if it isn't high fantasy in VII.Quote:
Originally Posted by BG-57
Yeah, the star has to be in the blue to violet range. My astronomy skills are kinda rusty. If I'm not mistaken our sun will most likely expand, destroying everything all the way to neptune and then it will shrivel into a neutron star. However, while supernovas may be explosively awesome a neutron star is known to be the precedent to a black hole. We still score a 10 on the frickin' sweet scale. Allllright. I'll amend my opinion a bit. It's an alternate earth. You win. Damn it.Quote:
Originally Posted by BG-57
Whatever it is, it's definitely not the future.
I never thought that it could have been in earth's (long) future.Only a reflection of what might have been considering the game's ecological symbolism.
As I recall, the reason a star is a star is because all the hydrogen and helium and other stuff that's in there are reacting, and exploding constantly. However, the amount of stuff blowing up in the middle is so immense that its own weight pulls it in. As soon as that mass is no longer heavy enough, the explosion expands. I don't fully understand it, but I think basically if you remove enough mass from the core, you can cause a premature supernova. This was of course learned from an episode of Stargate SG-1 and is therefore not totally likely to be real, though a good amount of that show's science has proven credible in the past...
Yeah. No. You'd have to take a sh*t load. I love astronomy.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReloadPsi
Yeah, I wanted originally to be an astronomer as a kid going to an observatory built in 1910. Then I found out how much math was involved.
Even if you could somehow artificially collapse the sun prematurely (like by stealing a Trilithium missle from ST:G), it wouldn't create a supernova, because it's simply too small and too cold.
Of course I'm not expecting exact science from a game that refers to tissue implantation as cloning. :p
It is completely fantastical, as far as I'm concerned.
I don't think Cloud's outfit will ever be fashion, so definitely not a glimpse from the future there!
Purple and Yellow aren't so great together in his case :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Levian
I wouldn't say it's modeled after Earth, but of all of the FFs I'd say it's definitely the closest :p
i would say that the world of FF7 is modeled after our earth, with artistic licenece. They do it with alot of fictonal works. Minid you, I am a strong beliver in the fact that every Final fantasy game spare 12 and 11 are based on a time line (not the order the games came out though) the storys seem to fit...
My opinion for what it's worth...
The Final Fantasy Games seem to take quite a bit of "reality" into their story lines. Specifically with FF7, there are elements that completely resemble Earth, but not a futuristic Earth. I would say that the technology in some cases is about 30-50 yrs old but the society itself is less advanced. Also, the lack of population, (only so much can fit onto 3 cds), indicates a newer or early society that may be developing into cities and states. It's like early Rome or Greece but with 1980's tech and clothing. I think FF7 is a unique blend of Japanese creationism myth, coupled with a realistic Earth like population and fantasmal inhabitants and abilities. If you enjoy Sephiroth's Supernova summon as much as I do, the American version of the game I mean, you can see the other 8 planets named specifically. Doesn't get any closer to our Solar System than that.
Kage
I think the concept is futuristic. That people will always be greedy and even if it means destroying the Earth, if a resource makes so much money, it will be manufactured and sold.
Perhaps there will be a huge company like ShinRa one day, and our future selves will know exactly what to do ;)
XD I love the astronomy disscussion here!
The death of a star can take many different paths. A neutron star tends to burn out most often, becoming a black dwarf. A black hole results when a supergiant can no longer fight the massive gravitational pull it's created, because there's nothing left to combust. When this happens, the star rapidly collapses and inertia takes over, resulting in a massive 'dip' in the time/space continum. This is a black hole. For the Sol to go nova, though, it would have to expand until the inferior planets are INSIDE the sun itself. Then it sheds it's outer layers, leaving behind the white-hot core. The physics are a little complicated, but eventually, it will explode. The outer layers shed by the star is what creates beautiful planetary nebulae, as seen from other stars.
Back on topic.... If forced to choose, it'd seem more like an alternate reality. Indeed, can we even be sure that the reality we live in right now is truly real? Our senses can be easily decieved. Our logic is influenced by our senses, thus we cannot be sure of anything. Perhaps we are all but a dream of God.
Arg, you all just got a dose of my Astronomy class and my Classical Literature and Thought class. Lord, I hate school sometimes.
Well I read that the reason they called it "cloning" in the english version is because there is no equivalent to what they were trying to call it in Japanese.Quote:
Originally Posted by BG-57
Also, I believe Seph was creating an artificial supernova, to demonstrate all the massive knowledge he gained while in the lifestream, represented by the nonsensical mathematical equations on the screen during the sequence. That, and, they just wanted to make an awesome battle animation for the final boss.
Also, FFVII isn't the only game in the series to make an allusion to Earth. In Final Fantasy IV the game makes a direct reference to planets in our solar system (Mars and Jupiter I think) to explain the location of the Lunarian planet when it first came into the solar system. The game takes place on "The Blue Planet" and in the ending (at least in the GBA planet) it shows it as the third one from the sun.
Kage was 100% right - in the promotional interviews of the creators of Final Fantasy VII, Yoshinori Kitase (the director) said that the entire goal of RPGs is to take something from the real world and use it as a model for the game. When making FFVII they really wanted to harness the technology to accomplish this goal.
The best example is probably Shinra Inc. At the time the game was produced, the mid-late 1990's, the key word in politics was "globalization", the international economy had just then returned to its peak levels of integration from the 1890's. In this field, one line of thinking states that eventually, due to international trading, nations will become obsolete, or at least irrelevant. The game took this and put it in, as for maybe the first time, the evil ones aren't Empires, Kingdoms, or even Nations - they're capitalists in business suits.
Another example of this is the opening mission, Cloud running through a reactor tearing apart armed gunmen with his sword. Alot of people said "yeah, that makes sense" sarcastically, but there is a real life example of when 2 samurai's broke into a British arms-producing plant in the 1600s (i think around then) and the bullets weren't able to penetrate their armor. They blew the place up, too, I think.
Every FF is modelled on earth. Green grass and blue seas. Find me another planet like that.
I don't think it's meant to represent the future of this world any more than VIII.
ps. if someone is a smarty pants and finds me a planet with green grass and blue seas, I will be rather annoyed.
I'm going to get a little technical here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolivar
Cloning is transplantation of an adult nucleus into a fertilized egg, so that the resulting embryo expresses the genes of the donor nucleus, not the original nucleus. In essence the embryo will be genetically identical to the adult donor, but not at the same age. So far as I know, it is always done between members of the same species.
As for what happens in the game, what they refer to as cloning is a combination of exposing subjects to high does of Mako and injections of cells from Jenova. While it gives the subjects a sort of communal link that Jenova and Sephiroth can exploit, it did not make the subjects genetic duplicates of either Sephiroth or Jenova.
If we view the cells as being suspended in liquid (akin to blood), then transfusion would be a pretty close match. On the other hand, if we view the Jenova cells as essentially alien transplants, then xenografting would also pretty closely describe the process. So there's not a lack of alternatives, although they are generally specialized terms.
Collapsing stars make make for entertaining sci-fi, but it's a lot more difficult then it sounds. What you need to add to a star is a lot of mass. Although it could just be a summon-type magic spell (which is my personal inclination here), the star in that animation cannot be our sun because it's of the wrong order of magnitude to undergo a supernova. However, it could be an alternate-reality version of the sun and solar system, which is what I was suggesting all along.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolivar
Every FF refers to Earth, if only in names and mythological references. The FF worlds are alternate versions of Earth, what might have been.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolivar
Are we even disagreeing here?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolivar
i didn't think we were disagreeing on any part.Quote:
Originally Posted by BG-57I'm going to get a little technical here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolivar
Cloning is transplantation of an adult nucleus into a fertilized egg, so that the resulting embryo expresses the genes of the donor nucleus, not the original nucleus. In essence the embryo will be genetically identical to the adult donor, but not at the same age. So far as I know, it is always done between members of the same species.
As for what happens in the game, what they refer to as cloning is a combination of exposing subjects to high does of Mako and injections of cells from Jenova. While it gives the subjects a sort of communal link that Jenova and Sephiroth can exploit, it did not make the subjects genetic duplicates of either Sephiroth or Jenova.
If we view the cells as being suspended in liquid (akin to blood), then transfusion would be a pretty close match. On the other hand, if we view the Jenova cells as essentially alien transplants, then xenografting would also pretty closely describe the process. So there's not a lack of alternatives, although they are generally specialized terms.
Collapsing stars make make for entertaining sci-fi, but it's a lot more difficult then it sounds. What you need to add to a star is a lot of mass. Although it could just be a summon-type magic spell (which is my personal inclination here), the star in that animation cannot be our sun because it's of the wrong order of magnitude to undergo a supernova. However, it could be an alternate-reality version of the sun and solar system, which is what I was suggesting all along.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolivar
Every FF refers to Earth, if only in names and mythological references. The FF worlds are alternate versions of Earth, what might have been.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolivar
Are we even disagreeing here?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolivar
Ah, okay.
I'm a physics major :D . But damn! I thought our sun was bitchin'! However, I love that fact that there is now some serious evidence pointing to alternate realities. It gives the "what if" argument a whole new life...Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon Mage
Thing is that we now are discovering that atoms and molecules will disappear! Not just move to another place! They will outright disappear! If that isn't enough proof of the Time-space continuum I dunno what is!
that's crazyQuote:
Originally Posted by MKusanagiI'm a physics major :D . But damn! I thought our sun was bitchin'! However, I love that fact that there is now some serious evidence pointing to alternate realities. It gives the "what if" argument a whole new life...Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon Mage
Thing is that we now are discovering that atoms and molecules will disappear! Not just move to another place! They will outright disappear! If that isn't enough proof of the Time-space continuum I dunno what is!
I always thought FF 7's Mako Reactors were thinly veiled Nuclear Reactors (threatening humanity, providing electricity at great cost, etc.), and that FF 7 was criticizing America's commercialism in general, which was part of why I liked it. Yes, it's closer to home, and I would say it's more in the present than in the future. Or if it's in the future, it'd have to be the near-future.
Thinking on it now I would have to say that it is like earth. Simply the fact that they like us are taken away from the planets resources and turning it into a wasteland. I also could be hoping its alot like earth and if so... can I be Cloud?