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This Sunday, for the first time in NFL History, two teams 7-0 or better are facing each other. And it's not just ANY two teams; it's the New England Patriots (8-0) and the defending World Champion, Indianapolis Colts (7-0).
And I can't bring up such a topic without first bringing up the debate of who the better quarterback is.
http://anthjames.com/boston-real-est...rady-condo.jpg
Tom Brady?
http://media.collegepublisher.com/me...6f590-46-1.jpg
or Peyton Manning?
Manning. Have you seen those commercials XD
lol. "With NFL Sunday Ticket on DirecTV, you can watch up to 14 games every Sunday, so instead of watching this, you can watch my brother, Eli play against the Cowboys! Oh, I gotta run!" *snaps the ball* "Actually, I think I'll pass!" *throws a TD pass*Quote:
Originally Posted by edczxcvbnm
I swear, I can't get those commercials out of my head.
That commercial in particular is so unrealistic... he's throwing a TD pass up 28-3 in the 4th quarter. That's something Brady would be doing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodline666lol. "With NFL Sunday Ticket on DirecTV, you can watch up to 14 games every Sunday, so instead of watching this, you can watch my brother, Eli play against the Cowboys! Oh, I gotta run!" *snaps the ball* "Actually, I think I'll pass!" *throws a TD pass*Quote:
Originally Posted by edczxcvbnm
I swear, I can't get those commercials out of my head.
Hah! Brady and his running up of the score!Quote:
Originally Posted by KirobaitoThat commercial in particular is so unrealistic... he's throwing a TD pass up 28-3 in the 4th quarter. That's something Brady would be doing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodline666lol. "With NFL Sunday Ticket on DirecTV, you can watch up to 14 games every Sunday, so instead of watching this, you can watch my brother, Eli play against the Cowboys! Oh, I gotta run!" *snaps the ball* "Actually, I think I'll pass!" *throws a TD pass*Quote:
Originally Posted by edczxcvbnm
I swear, I can't get those commercials out of my head.
I finally figured out why the Cheatriots have been running up the score!
Remember that Bills/Oilers playoff game in the 92 season where Buffalo (with their BACKUP QB, no less) erased a 35-3 deficit to win 41-38 in OT? Belicheat probably had the team watch that game, and they were quickly reminded of their own 21-3 lead they blew, and figured, "The only way to prevent these kind of chokes is to simply score more points, regardless of the lead you hold. No lead is safe, you know! Not even a 32-point lead, as we just saw here! And an 18 point lead ain't safe, either, as we just experienced! I don't wanna see another big lead disappearing, and I don't want to lose another game because of it, so stop choking and RUN UP THE SCORE!"
For real. liek everyone was all about he he threw 56 TD passes in miami, but uhh last I checked miamis d is old and crippel and the team is 0-8 :pQuote:
Originally Posted by KirobaitoThat commercial in particular is so unrealistic... he's throwing a TD pass up 28-3 in the 4th quarter. That's something Brady would be doing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodline666lol. "With NFL Sunday Ticket on DirecTV, you can watch up to 14 games every Sunday, so instead of watching this, you can watch my brother, Eli play against the Cowboys! Oh, I gotta run!" *snaps the ball* "Actually, I think I'll pass!" *throws a TD pass*Quote:
Originally Posted by edczxcvbnm
I swear, I can't get those commercials out of my head.
wow, it's wonderful how everyone likes to pick on the Patriots.
Firstly, Tom Brady wasn't even in the 4th quarter. Secondly, they're playing the Colts this week. You relax and step back and take the little mistakes against a team you can get away with it with, and then you're screwed when you play a good team where you have to be on top of your game. Whether people want to accept it or not, by the end of the Redskins game, it wasn't about the Redskins. It was about preparing for the Colts the following week, and staying on top of their game. And I still don't understand what the big deal is.
People are upset because these are scores you'd see in mismatched college teams... not in the Pros. But guess what, the Patriots are that good. You shouldn't be complaining about why the Patriots are scoring so much it should be why the other team is so bad in comparison in a professional league. It should simply be that the other team should be good enough that the Patriots can't run up the score. So whatever you think of it, stop thinking the Patriots and Belichick are evil for it and start wondering why in a professional league, other teams can't even compete.
THE JACKEL
It's not just the "running up the score" controversy that people are upset about. Don't forget, the Pats also carry the stigma of Spygate with them! As a matter of fact, people are upset about this "running up the score" crap BECAUSE the Pats have used (and may STILL be using) subterfuge such as Spygate to accomplish it. And even though I'm a Cowboys fan and it pains me to have to defend the Redskins, I have reason to believe that last week, there was more subterfuge going on with the Pats. Through almost the whole first half, the Redskins' coaching staff had headset communication problems. According to the NFL's rules, if one team's headset communication is not working properly, then it is mandatory for the other team to shut theirs off until the headset communication system in question starts working properly. I have reason to believe the Pats did not do that, and I am quite surprised there was not even a hint of controversy over that, given the whole spygate thing that erupted earlier this season (they've apparently done it in the past, so the fact that Week 1 was not an isolated incident with the Pats does lead me to believe that Spygate may STILL be going on with that particular team). I feel the Pats' "success" over the last 6-7 years, even in this season, is tainted because of subterfuge like this. It matters not whether or not it affects the outcome of the game; cheating is still cheating, and it's still wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by ljkkjlcm9
Long story short, I feel that while Brady's individual talents are impressive, his success does carry the stigma of the subterfuge committed by his team's coaching staff. If NCAA rules were intact at the NFL level, his Super Bowl rings and Super Bowl MVP trophies would be surrendered to Commissioner Goodell's office (one minor NCAA infraction by a player or school, and his team could forfeit wins, and possibly National Championships, as well as an individual player surrendering his individual awards, including the Heisman - look at the crap Reggie Bush and the USC program are facing over Bush's illegal acquisition of money). Of course, I find it screwed up how College football's penalties are MUCH stiffer than the NFL's, which is supposed to be a higher level than College ball. So I'd have to go with Manning on this one.
If this game comes down to an Adam Vinatieri FG, I am willing to bet that Belicheat have a minimum of one time out saved, so he can gonna pull off the controversial-yet-still-legal place-kicker freezer, at the last possible second before the snap, no less, which worked with Shanahan against Oakland and with Kiffin against Cleveland, but backfired with Jauron against Dallas this season. (this whole icing-the-kicker shenanigans will find its way to the Competition Committee during the off-season, I can guarantee you that; this is one of those situations where I'm glad my team's owner is on it)
the fact of the matter is, in years past, other teams did the same thing the Patriots were doing. The difference? The teams would ask the other to stop. It's only because the Jets coach used to work for the Patriots that it became a huge issue. He was a big crybaby. The fact of the matter is taping the other teams "signals" would barely have use in the same game. If anything it wouldn't be used until later games.
The Patriots are a good team, and people are trying to find reasons to tare them down. "Past 6-7 years because of cheating." Yeah that's complete crap. It doesn't matter what you do off the field, you still have to perform well on the field.
The problem is America loves underdog stories. Everyone is sick of the Patriots being a powerhouse of football, and so they're trying to give every reason possible to dislike them. But at the end of the day, no matter what happens, they keep pushing on and doing their thing. They ignore all the BS everyone comes to push on them.
For anyone to say anything about Manning being better than Brady, I truly don't understand it. I get in this conversation with my friends, and their reason is just, Peyton Manning is awesome. But they can't name a single thing that actually makes him better than Brady. Personally, I hate Manning. He was deemed amazing before doing anything, by sheer legacy. Brady won the Superbowl his first season, and has only continued to improve. I can't see a single reason for anyone to truly say Manning is so much better than Brady.
THE JACKEL
Colts are not defending World Champions. They have not played the world yet. As for football, it is boring and stinky.
Let's get something straight here; the Pats were not snitched on, they were busted. Those tapes were even confiscated by NFL security at that very game!Quote:
Originally Posted by ljkkjlcm9
Secondly, those other teams who have allegedly done the same thing were never proven guilty. Therefore, by virtue of "innocent until proven guilty", they are still innocent.
Another thing that should raise suspicion here is this: this season, the Pats are 8-0 against the spread, according to various sports gambling sources. This does raise the possibility of SOMEONE within the Patriots organization betting on games. Could be Brady, could be Moss, could be Welker, could be Bruschi, could be Vrabel, could be that drug cheat Rodney Harrison, could be Belichick, could even be Kraft...I don't know. But when the Pats are favored by something like, 1-17 points on the spread, and they pull off blowouts by "running up the score", I can't help but be suspicious of betting on games within the Pats organization here.
Bottom line, Manning is the better QB. Brady's team can't even beat Manning's, let alone win ANY Super Bowls, without some form of cheating! Whether it's spygate, keeping their headset communication system intact while the other team's is not working (I know this because the Redskins reported the headset communication problem, and clearly SAW the Pats coaches with their headsets on), cheapshots from Vrabel and Wilfork, or getting away with blatant pass interference (which is exactly how they beat the Colts in those AFC Championship Games).
Manning, on the other hand, won his Super Bowl fair and square. Without any spygate or any other similar subterfuge. So unless you can prove that any other teams have done this crap, unless you actually have evidence other than hearsay to prove it, those other teams are still innocent.
As for your statement of "doesn't matter what happens off the field", I believe I made a thread during the off-season about off-the-field misconduct. Need I bring up the likes of Pacman Jones, Chris Henry and Michael Vick? They all broke the law, and are suspended from the NFL because of it (Chris Henry's is set to expire the week after next, I believe; I'm not sure whether the Bengals have had their bye week yet). However, I am putting an asterick on Tank Johnson's off-the-field issues, because he got suspended for off-the-field misconduct last season due to what I perceive as his constitutional rights being violated (I believe his second amendment rights were violated (Illinois is a state that treats the second amendment like it doesn't exist), and probably his fourth amendment rights, as well; I'm not even sure whether or not the cop that initially arrested him for gun possession had a warrant to search his home). Also note that an unfair competitive advantage can be gained off-the-field, as well. On the sideline, as seen by the Pats' coaching staff, and even Rodney Harrison doing HGH. What's next? Randy Moss using Stickum (which was banned by the league in 1981 due to Lester "The Judge" Hayes' liberal use of it that led to 13 interceptions, plus 4 or 5 more called back due to penalties)? I'll be laughing if NFL security finds Stickum in the Pats' locker room.
Anyway, I'm done arguing about all this. You've stated your case, I've stated mine.
I know who Manning is. I've never heard of Brady before, or if I have, I've forgotten. Simple fame means he must be better. My logic is igfallible.
Manning, hands down. Brady is good, but Manning's amazing, arguably the best ever.
Bernard Manning?
Tom Brady, not that I care.
No, it's not Bernard. And it's not Olivia, Archie, Cooper, or Eli, either (by the way, I hate Eli Manning, by virtue of being a fan of a rival team). It's Peyton.Quote:
Originally Posted by blim
As for the Manning Clan, there's only one quarterback I'm aware of that nobody in that family can beat, and it's not Tom Brady. It's Tony Romo, who at this point and time is a perfect 3-0 against the Manning Clan (that MNF loss to the Giants is not on Romo; it's on Bledsuck, since he's the one who threw that interception in the red zone at the end of the first half that cost the Cowboys that game; said interception also ended his career).
Honestly, all of this stuff gets blown out of proportion so much. If the Pats have been cheating all this time, how come they haven't won every Super Bowl? And if we're so obsessed with cheating, why don't NFL players get the stigma of cheating that baseball players do? Shawn Merriman can still go to the Pro Bowl after testing positive, for instance?
As a New Yorker, I have no love for the Pats, but I don't think they're running up the score. I think it's a combo of a great team and some bad competition. The Pats haven't really played anyone of merit other than Dallas yet, so frankly, I'd expect them to be winning by the margins they are. The test is this week against a team that can probably keep up with them. Plus, they have lost leads in the past, such as last year in the Playoffs against the Colts, so I think they're very wary of it.
So much of Brady versus Manning comes down to personal preference. Brady is more GQ cool, Manning more good-old-boy. Both are great, hands down and could be Top 5 when they hang up their helmets. I prefer Brady slighty over Manning, but there is no wrong answer. Ironically, I prefer Dungy of the two coaches, so it's tough to really pick.
I expect the Pats to win because Harrison still isn't 100% so the Pats can double or triple cover Wayne and Clark, which in turn makes them have to run with Addai. With Seymour back, I think the Pats run D is very stout, but I think, finally, the Pats will finally have to sweat out a game and not win by such a crazy score.
Take care all.
Also note that the Colts have played a tougher schedule thus far than the Patriots, and have still managed to be unbeaten. Not to mention the fact that the Colts play in a surprisingly tougher division than the Pats (in fact, it could be said that the AFC South is arguably the toughest division in the NFL right now, a division historically owned by the Colts ever since its creation in 2002 as a result of divisional realignment). Pats? Their division is by far weaker. Quarterback controversies/carousels with the Jets and Buffalos (as I call the Bills), and a seemingly endless injury list with the Dolphins (despite statements and signs pointing otherwise, the Dolphins need Ricky Williams reinstated much more badly than ever, despite the controversy it will create).Quote:
Originally Posted by The Captain
As for Shawne Merriman, the league and the NFLPA has already addressed that issue during the off-season as a direct result of him making the Pro Bowl despite testing positive for steroids; any violation of the steroids/performance-enhancing drug policy results in that player automatically losing eligibility for the Pro Bowl for that year. Rodney Harrison already falls under that category. Last time I checked the Pro Bowl ballot on the league's website, his name was NOT on the ballot.
In unrelated news, the supposedly-lowly Detroit Lions are half way to fulfilling QB Jon Kitna's guarantee of 10 wins this season; the Kitna Meter (as ESPN calls the Lions' win column) is at 5 after 7 games played.
You guys realize the more you and media makes Spygate a bigger deal, the more it just pisses off Belichick and the Patriots which in turn makes them play with more passion right? I mean, you're just throwing gasoline into the giant wildfire that is their play on the field right now (no offense San Diegoans).
Also, any mention of "running up the score" while talking about the NFL is ridiculous. These aren't students. These are grown men getting paid millions of dollars to play. If you're getting embarrassed, do something about it! The fact they continue to play aggressive offense late in games gives the opposing defense a chance to redeem some of their pride with a sack or an INT. If they're just going to half-heartedly run the ball every down, then they might as well just end the game right there and give the Pats the win. No need to waste anymore time playing a game that doesn't matter anymore.
As for the topic question, I'll give the slight edge to Manning, but Brady with weapons is absolutely terrifying.
As far as "doing something about it" is concerned...I'm not sure an entire defensive unit will be able to do something about the Pats running up the score, but I am certain there will be an individual defensive player on a team that's on the Pats' remaining schedule, and for that matter, one who has seen enough of this, and when his team takes on the Pats this season, he certainly WILL do something about it on the field. Unfortunately, I have a feeling that this act of "doing something about it" will result in that player being fined, and possibly suspended, because I have heard through the grapevine that there is a huge bounty on Tom Brady's ACL because of all the controversies involving the Pats this season.
Um, isn't that the entire point of having a defense? To keep the other team from getting points? They could knock down those passes or even get pressure on Brady.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodline666
The whole point I was trying to make is, there is a defensive player on the Pats remaining schedule (the obvious suspects are Ray Lewis and Joey Porter) who is fed up with all the Pats running up the score, spygate, headset communications violations, etc., and wants to put a stop to at least the running up of the score by taking his frustrations out on Tom Brady, and will probably do so even if it means a late hit, cheap shot to the knees (a la Carson Palmer)...whatever it is. Whether this whole thing was instigated by fans upset over the Pats' controversies (which is most likely the case), or is an actual bounty, I don't know. But I will say this; if the Steelers were capable of retaliating against the Bengals' defilement of the Terrible Towel by hitting Carson Palmer at the knee, tearing his ACL and his MCL in the process, then I'm fairly certain any team left on the Pats' remaining schedule will retaliate against spygate, the running up of the score, the headset communcations violations, etc. by doing the same thing to Tom Brady.Quote:
Originally Posted by El BanditoUm, isn't that the entire point of having a defense? To keep the other team from getting points? They could knock down those passes or even get pressure on Brady.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodline666
Tom Brady never blamed a bad performance on his offensive line, or got into a public argument with his place kicker.
There's a reason Peyton Manning called Vanderjagt a "liquored up, idiot kicker."Quote:
Originally Posted by eestlinc
Because Vanderjagt WAS a "liquored up, idiot kicker." I know, myself, because last year when he was with the Cowboys, he couldn't make a damn field goal even if his life depended on it, so the Tuna cut him. Make the damn field goal, and you don't get called a "liquored up, idiot kicker", simple as that. By the way, the idiot kicker was last seen a few weeks ago trying out for the Saints. He missed the cut, and is STILL looking for work in football.
Meanwhile, there's a reason Brady never publicly criticized his kicker; because his kicker was one of the best in the game. Guess where that kicker is now? On the OTHER side!
Manning is the better QB but I think the Patriots will win.
Whether or not Vanderjagt is an idiot is beside the point. It's unprofessional and immature to fight with teammates publicly in the media. being right doesn't make it smart.
Also, Tom Brady never had to overcome early-career playoff failures.
Brady wins more, but that's because the Patriots have been a better run franchise.
Brady managed to pull this one out with the help of Randy Moss.
Stupid Moss. Stupid stupid Moss.
This game proves that while the Pats are still undefeated, they are not invincible, contrary to the picture the media's been painting about them.
This game also shows that they are very much stoppable; they were held to 24 points, which should make the game manageable for the other team. It also shows that they are possibly beatable; if Indy hadn't choked at the end, they would've pulled this one off.
So what's their probability of going undefeated? It's almost a certain shot. The rest of their remaining schedule is pretty damn easy, with the exception of a few games, since they're in a pretty weak division.
Two games that could possibly be tough for NE: vs. Baltimore and @ Pittsburgh.
One game that will DEFINITELY be tough for NE: @ New York. They already played the Jets at Giants Stadium already this year (first game of the season), so that narrows down which team it is; Giants (funny, they begin AND end their season at Giants Stadium). It's no secret that Osi Umenyiora and Michael Strahan both have a nose for the quarterback. The Giants' secondary can cause problems for receivers, as well.
In fact, the only game left OUTSIDE their division that should be easy is vs. Philadelphia. This game will definitely make the Eagles pay for letting Donte Stallworth get away. Also consider the fact that the Eagles last night pretty much got murdered by division rival Dallas Cowboys last night! If the Cowboys, who suffered their sole loss of the season at the hands of the Pats, embarrased the Eagles IN THEIR OWN BACK YARD, then that should speak volumes about the Eagles' chances against New England in the rematch of Super Bowl XXXIX.
yea, the Pats almost lost to the second best team in the league, and on the road in a tough, loud dome. Clearly the other teams of the league should feel good about this one.
The Pats aren't invincible, but the best bullet in the NFL's gun couldn't do the trick.
The only way the Patriots will lose a game this year is by some fluke of a mistake or injury. I don't see them playing a bad game, or a good game and still losing.
Bo Brady & Carly Manning were married in Days of our Lives. ;o then she was buried alive because Vivian had given her a poison that made it look like she was dead while in reality she was just paralyzed. But I guess this thread is about some other Brady and Manning. :]
Conventional wisdom would tell us that New England and Indy will get the first round byes in the AFC, but don't count out Pittsburgh just yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Del Murder
Indy has a tougher remaining schedule than the other two (not to mention the fact that they play in a tougher division than the other two, also).
While New England still has the easiest remaining schedule, and has weaker competition within their division, I still see two possibly losable games on the Pats' remaining schedule; vs. Pittsburgh and @ New York Giants. I initially thought @ Baltimore would be tough for the Pats, but that's not the case, given the fact that the Ravens have all kinds of problems offensively, and they may have a divided locker room, given some recent comments by Ray Lewis about the Ravens offense and about Brian Billick's playcalling.
Pittsburgh, meanwhile, still has a potent offense, and their defense is no pushover, either. It's no secret that the Giants' D-line, in particular Osi Umenyiora and Michael Strahan, have a nose for the quarterback.
If Indy and NE do have a rematch in the playoffs this year (most likely the AFC Championship Game), don't be surprised if the Colts put a major beating on the Pats. The most likely cause for the Colts' loss to NE this past Sunday is the fact that four Colts players missed the game due to injury, most notably Marvin Harrison. Expect those Colts who missed the NE game due to injury to be fully healthy come playoff time.
Another thing learned in this game is that the best defense against the Pats is not necessarily the team's defensive unit, but the other team's offense; long, sustained drives are necessary to keep Tom Brady off the bench.
While Pittsburgh may have talent, I don't think their coach is good enough to hang with Belichick's game time adjustments. Don't get me wrong, Tomlin is doing a great job, but Pittsburgh's two losses were mostly caused by rookie coaching mistakes.
As for the Giants, I just don't think Eli will step up to the pressure the Patriots will bring him. I mean, if you looked at the Colts-Patriots game, the Pats' front seven was able to get past the amazing o-line of the Colts and eventually that pressure caused Peyton to make mistakes. With a inferior line and inferior pocket presence, I don't think the other Manning will be able to have nearly enough success. As for Strahan and Umenyiora, the Pats were able to function against Freeney and Mathis, I'd expect the same against the Giants' d-line.
I'm already looking forward to the AFC Championship rematch. Getting Harrison back just might be the edge Peyton needs to top the Pats. That Colts D has really impressed me so far. If they can stay healthy, I'd expect the AFC Championship to be an instant classic.