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Hey, I enjoy the heated debates of versus threads as much as the next guy, and the Elder Scrolls is such a great series, it needs one.
So which game is superior - the classic third entry in the series, Morrowind, or the more recent hit, Oblivion? This is a tough question for me, since I love both games for very different reasons. That's why I added an option to the poll for those who can't decide.
Don't just vote though - I want good arguments as to why you chose what you chose.
I personally feel Morrowind is better. Whilst Oblivion makes some great strides in some ways (Graphics and physics being the most obvious ones), Morrowind was far more immersive and more importantly, far more interesting. Oblivion is pretty standard fantasy schtick. Nothing dire but nothing new. Morrowind was set in a genuinely original, interesting location which it felt alien to be within. There was still regular fantasy stuff there, but it was used so well that when you wandered through Pelagiad you felt it a place of familiarity among an entirely foreign culture, for instance.*
I loved exploring in Morrowind. Exploring the outdoors, exploring dungeons, exploring settlements, exploring the history and story - it was fantastic. I've not cared at all to explore in Oblivion. At best, I wind up with a nice new item. I don't end up with any personal experiences, for the most part. I remember when I was new to Morrowind, I made an Argonian who wanted to join the Legion. But he didn't just get the Silt Strider up there, oh no - he walked the entire length of the coast from Seyda Neen to Gnisis to prove that he was ready for it. That's the kind of experience that made the game so great to me, and Oblivion just doesn't feel like it provides that oppurtunity. (Although things like MMM and OOO do improve the situation slightly by at least adding an element of danger. And to be fair, I did always play Morrowind with things like GIANTS once I had it on the PC.)
* And the remoteness of places like Tel Fyr or the entire Sheogorad region just absolutely outclasses Oblivion, even if you mod the fast travel out of the latter.
I can't choose between the two.
While Oblivion is more fun to play and graphically superior, Morrowind was far more atmospheric and had a better storyline.
There was something about Morrowind that grabbed my attention and even now, years after its release, I can pick it up and get lost in the game.
With Oblivion however, I got bored of it after a month and only now, over a year since I completed it, am I getting back into it again.
Morrowind had a sense of realism about it that is greater than that of Oblivions. Climbing the Red Mountain, or exploring a dungeon always made my heart pound. I really didn't have that feeling with Oblivion. But where I found tense atmosphere in Morrowind, I felt epicness wth Oblivion. Fighting in the planes of Oblivion was incredible, nowhere near as tense as Morrowind, but far more exciting!
Oblivion had a better inventory system then Morrowind, and the magic system was incredibly superior to Morrowinds. Also the quests were far easier to managed and better organised. In Morrowind, the quest journal was an absolute mess.
About free-roaming, I'd love to just wonder around in Morrowind o explore, but I would get bored doing it in Oblivion. I suppose it's because the whole area has the same sort of layout (other han the snow to the north, which in my opinion is the best part of the world.)
Morrowind offered variety in the landscape and it was fun to explore.
About the fighting systems...lets just say that Morrowinds was laughable. Oblivion's was diverse, fun to use and it would take a long time for it to become repetitive.
So overall...I really can't choose between the two.
Morrowind's world is less cliche and more immersive.
Even though I couldn't really decide, I completely agree with your points here. Those are definitely HUGE points of strength that Morrowind has over Oblivion, no doubt about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by I'm my own MILF
The freshness of exploring in particular also kept me interested in Morrowind longer than Oblivion. Oblivion's repetitiveness has caused me to become bored of it now at about 80-90 hours whereas in Morrowind, up until I stopped playing, I wasn't bored of it (don't know how long I'd played, but I'm sure it was longer than Oblivion). I'd just stopped because at the time, I thought Oblivion was better - but I'm really starting to question that.
Besides, I got the PC version of Morrowind instead of my Xbox version, and I'm astonished at how much better the graphics are on the PC. I don't know if you've tried the Xbox version, but let's just say the difference between them is staggering. So I'm going to play it again, and maybe after that I can say which is really better.
I agree with those points as well. Morrowind's journal system in particular irked me. I had to keep notes as to what I'd completed and what I hadn't, which got really annoying. I wonder if there's a mod somewhere that improves the journal system - if so I'm downloading it pronto.Quote:
Originally Posted by James Leopold
Nothing needs to be added here.Quote:
Originally Posted by I'm my own MILF
I forgot to eat, see my girlfriend, and bathe whilst playing Morrowind.
I cannot say the same about Oblivion.
Quote:
Nothing needs to be added here.
Except this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nominus Experse
Yes, I think Oblivion just isn't quite as immersive as Morrowind is, agreed.
I honestly haven't played Oblivion yet, but I have the feeling that I'd like Morrowind more. Even by looking at screenshots, I feel that Morrowind has a far larger value of atmosphere and feeling to it. Like the guy a few posts above me stated, exploring the world of Morrowind was thrilling and exciting. I remember my friend got the game, and I said "Oh sweet" and he copied it for me, I popped it in my computer, and I was hooked there all night. I felt as if the candle-light like lighting on the game was taking place in the room I was in. And the light violin music was very atmospheric. I remember exploring around at night, finding a small tribe of outlaws, and beating the pulp out of every single one of them, and then taking all their stuff. And then there was the noobish times, where I saw a guard in that Bonemold armour (I can't remember what exactly it was called), and I attacked one because I wanted his armour, and got the crap beaten out of me.
There's a lot to say about Morrowind. I'll always remember that game, though.
I like them both equally for totally different reasons. As milf first said, morrowind is so cool to play in, but oblivion is so much more polished and pretty.
they're both 10/10 to me.
I find Oblivion much better than Morrowind for a multitude of reasons...unfortunately my PC is being evil so I dont have time to share the reasons why...
You can make Morrowind almost as graphically beautiful as Oblivion through the use of mods anyway.
Agreed. Better Bodies, Better Clothes and Better Bodies are all musts for the Morrowind fan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nominus Experse
Oblivion, simply because of the better casting system, better trading system, a way better melee system, sneaking is actually fun and the recorded dialogues. I didn't like the fact that you could auto-travel though. The 2nd Morrowind expansion was great though.
EDIT:
Can you get HDR lightning? If yes, I'm reinstalling the game.:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Nominus Experse
Yes, I agree with those points. The biggest thing Oblivion has going for it is the ease of play, and the matured combat, magic, trading, sneaking, speechcraft, lock-picking systems etc. The world also felt more life-like with the dialogs, though there should have been more than one voice actor/actress for each race. The voices just weren't varied enough, though the acting itself was, on the whole, pretty good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Discord
Vagrant Story? Victoria's Secret? What?
In Oblivion? You sure? I've never met anyone who said that before. To each their own though!Quote:
Originally Posted by Discord
Well it's true that you can get more cash for your traded loot in Morrowind - usually you can fool the witless store owners into giving you more money if you're selling them a lot of items at once. The problem I had with it was firstly, I became addicted to reloading to try to gain more and more money because what the store owner will or won't accept as an offer is random, which became an annoying obsession. Secondly, the fact that store owners ran out of money was more realistic, but more annoying - waiting for 24 hours just to get rid of all your encumbrance is a PITA . Finally, using speechcraft on store owners was generally waaay more difficult - even with a high speechcraft level there was a chance that admiration would have hugely negative consequences to his or her disposition.Quote:
Originally Posted by I'm my own MILFIn Oblivion? You sure? I've never met anyone who said that before. To each their own though!Quote:
Originally Posted by Discord
In Oblivion all of that is fixed - you might not get as much of a good deal when trading lots of booty, but the annoyances of the past system were gone.
I think that it's hard to beat a system that forces you to exchange a sword for a (comparatively) tiny sum in gold and 20 other items of lesser quality, then spend a day waiting, then sell those items individually to the same trader with daily intervals between each sale. I disagree Vincent, it's not realistic, it's just bloody annoying. In all honesty, it was by far the worst trading system I've ever seen in an all my years of RPGing.Quote:
Originally Posted by I'm my own MILFIn Oblivion? You sure? I've never met anyone who said that before. To each their own though!Quote:
Originally Posted by Discord
And meh, I've never met anyone who said anything at all about a trading system in Oblivion. Does it automatically make it bad?
WHat that was random? the beginning of my formula for the ultimate character was always high mercantile/speechcraft and use the multiple item glitch to buy/sell massive amounts of arrows to raise the skills and get money...it seemed pretty predictable to me what was a good deal and what wasn't...it seemed based on a percentage, and the best way to discover this was to take something advertised as costing 10 netch skins and tweaking it to see what you could get away with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent, Thunder God
Well heres' an example -Quote:
Originally Posted by DyslexiconWHat that was random? the beginning of my formula for the ultimate character was always high mercantile/speechcraft and use the multiple item glitch to buy/sell massive amounts of arrows to raise the skills and get money...it seemed pretty predictable to me what was a good deal and what wasn't...it seemed based on a percentage, and the best way to discover this was to take something advertised as costing 10 netch skins and tweaking it to see what you could get away with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent, Thunder God
I'm selling a sword. I offer to sell it for a total of 399 gold. The seller refuses.
I load my save, offer the same amount for the same sword, and he accepts.
What you can and can't get away with differs.
But in Oblivion, since the exact percentage and price is predetermined, there's none of that randomness.
I doubt that I'd have the patience to go through all of that.
Chock it up to my perfectionism. :rolleyes2Quote:
Originally Posted by James Leopold
Actually now that I think about it you're right. That did get annoying. So much so that I filled the game with mods that reduced the problems greatly, which is why I now think that it had an awesome system!Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent, Thunder GodWell it's true that you can get more cash for your traded loot in Morrowind - usually you can fool the witless store owners into giving you more money if you're selling them a lot of items at once. The problem I had with it was firstly, I became addicted to reloading to try to gain more and more money because what the store owner will or won't accept as an offer is random, which became an annoying obsession. Secondly, the fact that store owners ran out of money was more realistic, but more annoying - waiting for 24 hours just to get rid of all your encumbrance is a PITA . Finally, using speechcraft on store owners was generally waaay more difficult - even with a high speechcraft level there was a chance that admiration would have hugely negative consequences to his or her disposition.Quote:
Originally Posted by I'm my own MILFIn Oblivion? You sure? I've never met anyone who said that before. To each their own though!Quote:
Originally Posted by Discord
In Oblivion all of that is fixed - you might not get as much of a good deal when trading lots of booty, but the annoyances of the past system were gone.
May I ask what mods you used so that I may also be able to avoid those annoyances? I would greatly appreciate it.Quote:
Originally Posted by I'm my own MILF
The reasons that I enjoyed Morrowind more are as follows...
1) The biggest reason would have to be the levelling system for enemies. Having never faced an Oblivion enemy that I couldn't beat, I found it terrible. What's the point? There's no area that you can go to where you start to feel a little worried that you're going to die. You just kill. That's about it. You can't think "Yay, I beat one of these monsters, finally!" or "You know what, I think I can take on this slightly harder mission." It was all so very same-old, same-old throughout. I never really felt that bothered no matter who I was facing. Some guys took a couple of attempts but I didn't really gain much when levelling.
2) The setting. The Morrowind world is so much more varied and that made exploration a lot more fun.
Actually, those two things are what cut the mustard for me. I really enjoyed Oblivion for a while, but it got boring and that's not good. It got boring because every fight felt the same in the end. No good, I say! I know there are probably mods to fix such things, but I personally prefer to have the game being a good one when I install it, not requiring me to source out decent mods and throw them in.
Yes, I agree. When I started playing Oblivion, I was sure it was superior to Morrowind - but there was a point when exploring wasn't fun anymore, that the enemies felt really repetitive, the quests almost always involved a cave nearly identical to the previous ones - and it was at that point, about 80-90 hours into the game, that I became bored.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
Morrowind hasn't gotten boring to me yet, and I'm sure I've played it longer than Oblivion. For that reason and that reason alone, I'm tempted to go back on my word and say that Morrowind is superior. It has some inconveniences that Oblivion improved upon, but overall it's much more varied in design, gameplay etc.
One thing I'd like to add is that I think Morrowind had more detail - it's graphics may be weaker than Oblivion's, but if you walk into a room, it strikes you how many items are laid out on tables, stacked in shelves, etc. Oblivion had tons of barrels which were often stocked with the same few, worthless items, but rarely were there so many items laid out visibly. Morrowind had a lot fewer chests that were a lot fuller as well, and much less worthless items, which avoids the annoyance of sifting through tons of junk.
The character creation in Morrowind was so much more breezy instead of dragged-on like Oblivion.
I just liked to get into the adventuring straight when I began a new character.
I must admit though, Oblivion has spectacular music (atmosphere_07 is one to mention :3).
True, Oblivions enemy level scaling was a pain. I hate it.
I'm sorry, I don't have an install on this comp and I can't remember most of them. It took me quite a long time to get anything good together. I do remember Indy Bank was used, as well as Adventurer's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent, Thunder GodMay I ask what mods you used so that I may also be able to avoid those annoyances? I would greatly appreciate it.Quote:
Originally Posted by I'm my own MILF
Well thanks for remembering those two anyway. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by I'm my own MILFI'm sorry, I don't have an install on this comp and I can't remember most of them. It took me quite a long time to get anything good together. I do remember Indy Bank was used, as well as Adventurer's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent, Thunder GodMay I ask what mods you used so that I may also be able to avoid those annoyances? I would greatly appreciate it.Quote:
Originally Posted by I'm my own MILF
I can't choose. Both have strong points and weak points.
I loved how big Morrowind was, but i could never remember what i was doing. The journal in Oblivion fixed that. I think Oblivion was slightly too empty. I did pretty much all the sidequests much quicker then i thought it would take. In the end i just hope if/when the next one comes out it will be brilliant
morrowind cuz it has all the funny glitchs i love superjump and die and i have a trick that makes u superfast at lyk level 1