Why love Final Fantasy VII?

Okay, I'm about to give Final Fantasy VII one last try. I would be what you could call an "old-school FF'er". I started with IV (as II).

I want to see why people love VII so much. I've always despised VII. Hate it. I want to know why people love it. If you could, please give me reasoning. Not just vague responses like "best storyline evah!1", please elaborate why you felt that way. I also don't care for fanboy responses either such as, "Sephiroth pws all ftw!!!:love: ", or "I'd only go gay for Cloud".

Please, help me comprehend why this is such a great game; I feel I'm missing out.

If you don't like it then you don't, no biggie! Though it's always good to give things a second go, but if you still don't likie nobody can sway your opinion through their own personal reasoning. All the hype and fanboy-this-and-that destroys VII for most people anyway.

I always like to think of it like this: Instead of why others like it, consider why you don't. As far as RPGs go, there's nothing wrong with it. It has a plot, the characters, a battle system that stands up even today... People have loved games for less. It's just another game in the RPG genre. If you like RPG's then I don't see any particular reason to hate it so much.

I don't give a flying :skull::skull::skull::skull: about the story, Sephiroth or any of that other stuff. I enjoy playing this particular game; there's so much depth to it in comparison to its predecessors. Sure, all characters can learn the same basic set of abilities, but that's the only complaint I have gameplay-wise. Unlike FF6 it doesn't suddenly turn into a grindfest half way through the game (unless you for some reason think you need all the Master materia)

There, I said it. I don't give a toss about the story.

Super Mario Bros. 3 didn't have such an engaging plot, neither did Bubble Bobble (though many would disagree). They're still awesome games.

I love the whole "old-school" or "classic" argument that everyone loves using. Because Final Fantasy VII isn't 10-years old now or anything.

And despite popular belief, being a fan of the series before 1997 does not get you into any exclusive clubs or anything.

Final Fantasy 7 has the best story in the series, imo. I enjoyed it and thought it was really well done. The Materia system is fun for the fact that you can experiment with it and create countless different combinations. The characters are all pretty much the same except for their backstories, fortunately materia allows you to give characters special combinations according to their individual stats. The soundtrack is superb as usual when Nobuo Uematsu does it.

FFVII has an aura about it that sets it apart from other installments. =O

I like the game for quite a few reasons. I think the battle system is fun, and it plays very quickly when you set it to full speed--always a plus. Materia is a solid system, not as great as jobs or anything, but a lot of fun. There's definitely an addictive element to maxing out your materia and getting all the stat boosts that accompany that.

I also enjoy the story. Don't love it, it's not my favorite, and it's kind of a mess--but I enjoy its particular type of convoluted, as it's put together with just enough mystery and buildup to be engaging throughout. Also, of all the emo antiheroes that plauge the RPG genre, I like Cloud the most, though I couldn't say why. Something about how ordinary and cliche he seems, but I thought he had a hidden soul that was far, far better than anything they communicated with, say, Squall.

And last the visuals. Yeah, I know they're absolutely awful, but I actually kind of like them. :p They're so bad, I somehow find the blockiness endearing. Moreso than FFVIII, which is all jaggy and attempts to look much more realistic. Of course it succeeds, but it still looks like ass compared to the next generation of games, whereas FFVII looks so ridiculously bad it's just fun. :p

I do agree with azar on Cloud being the best of the emo anti-heroes actually.

Anyway, heres whats good and bad about VII

Pros
1) Some really cool characters (Cid, Vincent, Barret, Red XIII)
2) The Materia System was enjoyable.

Cons
1) The story is rather convulted.
2) The only real difference between your characters is their Limits.

OVeral, its a decent game. Nothing special, but I enjoyed it.

well i guess there are a few reasons:

1. it was the first RPG i played, and im very glad it was this one.
2. the storyline was enormous.. you could make a game of midgar alone.. but thats just the start.
3. battle system was fast, and materia raising was easy enough.
4. story line was interesting, although a bit classic, it had its twists and turns that made you stick along for 3 discs.
5. all the characters were well thought out.. all had their backgrounds and low points in the game.
6. i actually bothered myself more on the shady guys in FF8 then the puppets that you control in FF7.. it just made more sense..

i could go on.. but this would be enough

I guess that much of my love for this game comes from the fact that it was my first Final Fantasy game. Back then I was only 9 years old, and I'd never seen anything like it. Up until then I'd only been into fighting games and platformers, and although there's nothing wrong with those genres at all, I was just totally blown away by the sheer scale and big-ness of this game. Ever since I've been a huge fan of RPGs and Final Fantasy, and let's just face it; Final Fantasy VII is just very well made, and it's not really strange that it's such a darling among both fans and critics.

Three reasons to love this game:

*best storyline evah!1
*Sephiroth pws all ftw!!!
*I'd only go gay for Cloud

I despised this game the first three times I tried it, and now it's one of my favourite games.
Enough said.

Stockholms, mainly.

Alot of people hate it solely because of the hype, and usually either deny or are oblivious to their acts of anti-mainstreamism. Make sure this isn't what you've done.

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Originally Posted by Scarmiglione

I've always despised VII. Hate it.

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How come?

I love VII because the majority of the storyline is great (parts of it I still don't understand, but maybe that's something to do with a language limitation... I dunno). The character relationships are touching.

The battle system and materia set-up is really good, with the armour slots and magic spells. I like the inventory, stats page, characters, enemies... oh, I like everything!

I also really enjoy the graphics! Especially in battle! I don't know why people say they're so bad. :confused: I mean, it was made 10 years ago. But even when I play it now, in battle, it doesn't feel like it was made 10 years ago.

I could play this game over and over.

I remember ,,, once said that the reason some might like/hate FF7's story is dependent on when they played it. If one played FF7 say, when they were teens, they can identify with Cloud and his character. Most of people I know played FF7 when they were about 13 and they really like Cloud, which is why I believe this theory to be true. I, myself, played and beat FF7 five years ago when I was about ten. I never really liked Cloud and his character. In fact, the only thing I thought was pretty good was Sephiroth. So, maybe you don't like FF7 because of the age you were when you started to play it. (By the way, FFIV was my second FF and also my favorite as well :p)

I also think the whole mainstream/anti-mainstream thing is absurd. It's like a never ending cycle that just says two things:
1. One side assumes all people who like FF7 are rabid fanboys.
2. The other side assumes all people who dislike FF7 are idiotic haters.

It's almost like there's no way to state opinions on FF7 without being insulted by somebody.

Most of its graphics are cute, I think, but its translation is a bother.

http://www.JEREMYTIME/mondatime/sheismust.gif

I love VII, it was my first Fanal Fantasy so it seems the best to me:)
Story, characters, battle system, sidequests, i could easily go on but these are some of the few things to love about the game.
You have to play it again;)

I think one of the main ways this game stands above other installments/rpgs is the battles. This game was ATB at its finest. In almost every other one, except for V, you sit around waiting for animations to end before inputting a command. In IX, it's not uncommon to wait a full minute before one of your actions goes through. In FFVII, you pick a command, your character executes it, battle goes on.

In addition to having the best flow of battle, the use of camera in them as well has yet to be seen again in the series. the following games (except for XI and XII of course) had mostly fixed cameras, the amount that the camera moves in battle in FFVII was amazing.

add in soundtrack, plot, characters, you have all the main aspects of RPGs done really well. Don't let the name get in the way of liking it.

I love FFVII because the story and characters just really appeal to me. Add great gameplay, great music and playable graphics and you get, in my opinion, the = best game.

The thing alot of people forgot when they argue is that they're being incredibly biased when they say a game sucks. Especially when it comes to RPG's because you may or may not get attached to to story and characters. I did with FFVII, so I love it.

Play it again.

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Originally Posted by Kenshin IV

I love the whole "old-school" or "classic" argument that everyone loves using. Because Final Fantasy VII isn't 10-years old now or anything.

And despite popular belief, being a fan of the series before 1997 does not get you into any exclusive clubs or anything.

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Who the hell are you? I didn't say I was "elite" or "better" than anyone else just because I started with older FF's. It just seems like some (as in, not all) players who started with VII have little to no appreciation for I-VI. They can't take the "archaic look and feel" or whatever excuse they have this week.

Okay, so I started the game again and I'm up to Junon Harbor. I have to say I am feeling better about this game than before. It's not my favorite, (which, I wasn't expecting to be instantly) but it doesn't feel like a chore this time through. I'm understanding more of the story this time through. (I didn't notice how atrocious the grammar was the first time through!)

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Originally Posted by Marshall banana

Most of its graphics are cute, I think, but its translation is a bother.

http://www.JEREMYTIME/mondatime/sheismust.gif

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I think the mistranslations are cute

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Originally Posted by blackmage_nuke

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Originally Posted by Marshall banana

Most of its graphics are cute, I think, but its translation is a bother.

http://www.JEREMYTIME/mondatime/sheismust.gif

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I think the mistranslations are cute

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It's even cheesier in the German version. Rufus suddenly changes his name to "Rufhaus" for about half an hour then changes it back, Yoshiyuki is described as "Take this sword" in German, and Weapon starts off as Waffe (the German word for Weapon), then becomes Weapon once Tifa wakes up in Junon: guess it only took seven days to do all the paperwork.

And to think, the only oddness I expected was that enemies would turn green upon death instead of red in line with German censorship laws: This doesn't actually happen at all, but somehow convinced myself it would :p

I liked it...didn't love it, but it was fun!

The materia system was kinda neat...I liked the story...nice characters...fun sidequests.


...of course some people hate the materia system, the story, the characters, and the sidequests for the same reasons that others like them. The game isn't good or bad, just depends on what you like.

HONEYBEE INN.

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Originally Posted by PuPu

Most of people I know played FF7 when they were about 13 and they really like Cloud, which is why I believe this theory to be true. I, myself, played and beat FF7 five years ago when I was about ten. I never really liked Cloud and his character. In fact, the only thing I thought was pretty good was Sephiroth. So, maybe you don't like FF7 because of the age you were when you started to play it.

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I dunno, really. Maybe??? I first played the game when I was 10 and I grew really attached to Cloud. I'm 20 now and my feelings haven't changed, lol. But maybe that's because I'm a girl. :D

Although I very much agree with Jess:

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Originally Posted by Jessweeee♪

...of course some people hate the materia system, the story, the characters, and the sidequests for the same reasons that others like them. The game isn't good or bad, just depends on what you like.

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Originally Posted by Seal Evil

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Originally Posted by PuPu

Most of people I know played FF7 when they were about 13 and they really like Cloud, which is why I believe this theory to be true. I, myself, played and beat FF7 five years ago when I was about ten. I never really liked Cloud and his character. In fact, the only thing I thought was pretty good was Sephiroth. So, maybe you don't like FF7 because of the age you were when you started to play it.

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I dunno, really. Maybe??? I first played the game when I was 10 and I grew really attached to Cloud. I'm 20 now and my feelings haven't changed, lol. But maybe that's because I'm a girl. :D

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The theory fails to account for how the game received universal acclaim from gaming publications at the time. I'm not sure how many 13-year-old critics were writing at that time....

I used to think that i liked it so much because it was my first FF but it's not the main reason.
FFVII (for me) has a certain charm that it's quite hard to explain.I think it's the general atmosphere of the game (music,environments,characters) that i always loved.
I also liked it's humor and that it didn't take itself very seriously (unlike FFXII for example).

It's never been my favorite game, partly because I'm an arthritic thinker who much prefers X's tactics-based and turn-based combat system to flail-and-smash, partly because I prefer fantasy and mythic to dark urban dystopia settings. But I can see why VII could grab some folks. The storyline has a lot of twists and turns, from the simple "eco-terrorists... but also a mercenary who's dubious" beginning, to the flower girl who gradually turns out to be an Ancient Race (always a popular theme) and, eventually...er, I don't know how far you got in the game, but she's a classic myth figure disguised as Eliza Doolittle... to all the machinations of Shinra, sometimes enemy, sometimes ally. The Turks are a fun set of honorable or thuggy adversaries to beat up on.

The party itself has a fairly good mix of goodie-goodies and cynics, noble and down-to-earth, comic relief and serious. If you like minigames (I don't), there's a varied and interesting selection of them. The male/female balance in the party is better than ususual, with Aeris representing the stereotypical magic-wielding healer who goes "tink" for 0 HP in physical combat, Yuffie the trickster, and Tifa the barmaid beating the stuffing out of people -- one is going to appeal to "virtual girlfriend" or self-insertion tastes for a lot of players. The guys are similarly spread across a spectrum, and even the most caricature-like, Barrett/Mr.T, turns out to have some interesting backstory. I think this Cid appeals to a lot of folks because it's so unusual (and was especially back then) to have a hero who's a swearing, chain-smoking JERK who's nasty to his girlfriend... sometimes he's a hero, sometimes he's a bastard who deserves a kick in the balls. A little more interesting than generic sword-wielding sidekick.

The world's vast, with a lot of different styles of civilizations and landscapes, something that I look for. The City of the Ancients especially stuck out in my mind as an original design... at least the houses... on the order with some of my favorite MYST/RIVEN worldbuilding. The vehicles and oversea trips come at good stages in the game... always moving you on just before you can get bored with an area (wait! can't I get back into Midgar?) and, later on, allowing you to visit more and more places.

There are some moments of high drama and visual impact; I can see why one scene with Sephiroth became iconic. On the other hand, there are moments of inspired lunacy... Cloud's quest to get into Don Corneo's mansion has some pretty danged funny moments. And there's some good interpersonal stuff between the characters. Finally, for the most part, all the strands of story weave back together better than in some games, IMO.

One minor detail of VII which I liked is that it did a good job exploiting the limited graphics capacity at its disposal to make stylized, entertaining, comic-like battle moves. For some reason Red XII's somersault flip amuses the heck out of me. The swooshes and flourishes of the other characters during combat are also satisfying. A minor but constant detail. My first gaming experiences were with Pong, Choplifter, Zork and Adventure -- and I started with D&D before 20-siders were invented -- so I can appreciate the older stuff when it does a good job of working with what's available.

It's a good, solid game. Personally my favorite was VIII for years, until X's epic/mythic world ate my brain, but I can see why VII has endured as a favorite for many.

Edit: Even if I have managed to consign Cait Sith to the same mental box of denial and non-consent that I have stowed Lulu's moogle dolls and Quina (*Hides from Quina fans*). Evidently "cute blobby thing" doesn't work for me the way it does for others.

Nobuo Uematsu

All the extra/hidden stuff, like many of the summon materias, the whole chocobo breeding and racing sidequest, the golden saucer, etc.

And did I mention the music? I've actually gotten quite bored with the story over the years, especially after all the irrelevent extra crap they've produced lately, but the story written into the music is still as fantastic as it was when the game first came out. I think if the idjuts at SE would remake the original game (as everyone wants, not all this superfluous crap) with updated graphics and a revamped translation, many more people would come to appreciate the game. I can understand why gamers who joined the FF community after FFVII would have trouble going back to FFVII after playing the newer games. The graphics (especially character models) are absolute crap, so much so that it's hard to find any enjoyment in it. The movies are still good though, I remember seeing the commercial trailer for the first time and flipping when I saw Leviathan in CG splendor. I think any FF fan should at least play through it once. Likely they'll find something to like in it by the end, and it's certainly worth experiencing once if for no other reason than to understand the roots of 3D FF. It's like a fun playable history lesson.

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Originally Posted by chionos

Nobuo Uematsu

All the extra/hidden stuff, like many of the summon materias, the whole chocobo breeding and racing sidequest, the golden saucer, etc.

And did I mention the music? I've actually gotten quite bored with the story over the years, especially after all the irrelevent extra crap they've produced lately, but the story written into the music is still as fantastic as it was when the game first came out. I think if the idjuts at SE would remake the original game (as everyone wants, not all this superfluous crap) with updated graphics and a revamped translation, many more people would come to appreciate the game. I can understand why gamers who joined the FF community after FFVII would have trouble going back to FFVII after playing the newer games. The graphics (especially character models) are absolute crap, so much so that it's hard to find any enjoyment in it. The movies are still good though, I remember seeing the commercial trailer for the first time and flipping when I saw Leviathan in CG splendor. I think any FF fan should at least play through it once. Likely they'll find something to like in it by the end, and it's certainly worth experiencing once if for no other reason than to understand the roots of 3D FF. It's like a fun playable history lesson.

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All those games and media are not just superfluous crap, they're building upon the story and universe. The only one that wasn't 'needed' per se is Dirge of Cerebus.

Your including Advent Children in the list that builds upon the story and universe?

***SPOILER WARNING***

I love this game so much I decided to register just to post in this thread. This is by far favorite game in the series. For me, my love for this game is completely based on the storyline. I couldn't care less about character customization, active time battle, materia system, or any of that. For me that is just a bonus. This Final Fantasy series is the only series that has ever really affected me emotionally. I *almost* cried when Aerith died, and I had already had it spoiled for me on several occasions.

I have always viewed this game as a sort of Shakespearian (sp?) tragedy, which is my favorite part of the game. I loved every minute of 6 until it had that stupid kiddish cop-out of an ending. In this game, the good-guys sort of win, but the planet is scarred by meteor, aerith is still dead, and sephiroth is only defeated in a physical sense.

The tragedy of aerith's death was perfect. Only a few hours ago she was on a "date" with cloud and as they sat on that ride in the gold saucer she says that she wants to get to know the "real" cloud. In the temple of the ancients she tells cloud that someday they'll look back on these hard times and laugh. She tells him in the sleeping forest that everything will be ok and that she'll take care of it. Then the last time you see her she's so optimistic and she's praying and she's stabbed in the heart from behind. And then you fight jenova and aerith's theme keeps playing to emphasize the emotion. And I almost cried when cloud carried her over the water to say goodbye for the last time.....alright I'm going to have to force myself to move onto another topic.

One of the best motifs throughout the story is that cloud keeps losing everyone he loves: Zack, his mother, Aerith. I always wonder why people critisize him for being so emo...he kind of has reason to be. Zack took a bullet and ultimately gave his life for cloud, but because of cloud's amnesia, his heroic deed goes unnoticed. It's just so sad, you can't help but feel sorry for all of cloud's losses. Sephiroth is always at fault, either directly or indirectly, and yet I can't help but sympathize with him. He was taken advantage of for research, created through horrible experiments, and fed false information about his identity. Sephiroth is doing what he honestly believes is right to avenge his mother, and that is where the real essence of the tragedy lies: there really is no one person to put the blame on. If anyone, the real villain would be hojo, who symbolically raped lucrecia in the name of science, turned vincent into a monster, killed aerith's parents, etc. And yet jenova is also at the center of everything. I could go on about this for 10 pages, but I'll spare you all my fanboyish rant.

If I had to sum up why I have such an irrational emotional attachment to this game, it would be because of how realistic it feels. It's not some cliched story where a single antagonist does something bad because he is inherently evil, and some protaganist saves the day just 'cause it's the right thing to do. Everyone, including the main antagonist, has experienced betrayl, tragedy, depression, loss, and guilt, and is ultimately trying to find peace. And at the end, nobody gets exactly what they want, and that is what I love about it.

I'm confused, I read that all the difference between characters is their limits and story, but then I find myself asking "whats the difference between any characters from and rpg? the only game from the ff series I can think of is ffix and cmon is it that much of a big deal?

Anywho, I like ffvii for many reasons, such as the Aerith death scene (dont know if I spelt that right lol) now dont get me wrong and think im an Aerith hater (I use that term loosely) because im not, its just that the emotional value and no matter how many times I see it, it always manages (see scene lol) to move me, along with the scene with Nanaki aswell. The battle system aswell, its just a very fun battle system for me to play now 99% of all RPG's I get really bored with the battle system and end up grinding my way through the battles to get to the next boss but with vii its different for some reason and I always enjoy it.

oh and lets not forget, it has some really big swords lol.

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Originally Posted by Raebus

Your including Advent Children in the list that builds upon the story and universe?

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Yes. It may be a kickass movie because of the fighting, but its also a great movie because it ties up some lose knots in Clouds story (Aerith).

+ Its fantastic. xD

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Originally Posted by Christmas

HONEYBEE INN.

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Yeah, I think that's one very solid reason they'll never remake the game unless they either want an M rating or for all the fans to bitch that important stuff was left out. (Eight guys undressing Cloud and sharing a bath in AC's graphics? No thanks.)

It's another very solid reason to love the game too considering how short it is. My sister hasn't played FF7 at all yet she vividly remembers me doing the Honeybee Inn.

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Originally Posted by auberginedreams

***SPOILER WARNING***

I love this game so much I decided to register just to post in this thread. This is by far favorite game in the series. For me, my love for this game is completely based on the storyline. I couldn't care less about character customization, active time battle, materia system, or any of that. For me that is just a bonus. This Final Fantasy series is the only series that has ever really affected me emotionally. I *almost* cried when Aerith died, and I had already had it spoiled for me on several occasions.

I have always viewed this game as a sort of Shakespearian (sp?) tragedy, which is my favorite part of the game. I loved every minute of 6 until it had that stupid kiddish cop-out of an ending. In this game, the good-guys sort of win, but the planet is scarred by meteor, aerith is still dead, and sephiroth is only defeated in a physical sense.

The tragedy of aerith's death was perfect. Only a few hours ago she was on a "date" with cloud and as they sat on that ride in the gold saucer she says that she wants to get to know the "real" cloud. In the temple of the ancients she tells cloud that someday they'll look back on these hard times and laugh. She tells him in the sleeping forest that everything will be ok and that she'll take care of it. Then the last time you see her she's so optimistic and she's praying and she's stabbed in the heart from behind. And then you fight jenova and aerith's theme keeps playing to emphasize the emotion. And I almost cried when cloud carried her over the water to say goodbye for the last time.....alright I'm going to have to force myself to move onto another topic.

One of the best motifs throughout the story is that cloud keeps losing everyone he loves: Zack, his mother, Aerith. I always wonder why people critisize him for being so emo...he kind of has reason to be. Zack took a bullet and ultimately gave his life for cloud, but because of cloud's amnesia, his heroic deed goes unnoticed. It's just so sad, you can't help but feel sorry for all of cloud's losses. Sephiroth is always at fault, either directly or indirectly, and yet I can't help but sympathize with him. He was taken advantage of for research, created through horrible experiments, and fed false information about his identity. Sephiroth is doing what he honestly believes is right to avenge his mother, and that is where the real essence of the tragedy lies: there really is no one person to put the blame on. If anyone, the real villain would be hojo, who symbolically raped lucrecia in the name of science, turned vincent into a monster, killed aerith's parents, etc. And yet jenova is also at the center of everything. I could go on about this for 10 pages, but I'll spare you all my fanboyish rant.

If I had to sum up why I have such an irrational emotional attachment to this game, it would be because of how realistic it feels. It's not some cliched story where a single antagonist does something bad because he is inherently evil, and some protaganist saves the day just 'cause it's the right thing to do. Everyone, including the main antagonist, has experienced betrayl, tragedy, depression, loss, and guilt, and is ultimately trying to find peace. And at the end, nobody gets exactly what they want, and that is what I love about it.

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Well said n.n

(For future reference, we have spoiler tags)

very well said.. i totally agree

Couldnt have said it better myself :cool:

It got me into Final Fantasy. I owe it everything in the world. I look at the other FFs as another way to take me away into another (although fictional) reality.

VII has plot depth, sympathy for character feelings (Aerith :cry: ), incredible re-playability, and a battle system that still rivals that of today's RPGs.

That's what does it for me in any game. But if you don't like it, you don't like it. That doesn't make you a I-VI fanboy or anything. (God do I hate rude people.)

I just plain enjoy the game. It has a deep story, great characters, and fun minigames. Definitely my favourite FF.

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Originally Posted by Azar

Also, of all the emo antiheroes that plauge the RPG genre, I like Cloud the most, though I couldn't say why.

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I don't really like the misconception that Cloud was emo or depressed. He was cocky at the beginning and was a bit misled/tortured during his little identity crisis, but for the most part he remained pretty optimistic even later on in the game.


Anyway I've been playing through this game again and I'm getting kind of annoyed with all the little unrealistic things about it, especially during the first 5 hours or so. Most of the story still intrigues me though, so it's all good.

For video gamees its really hard to say why you liked them without the simple responses, i loved the story, character, gameplay ect. But if someone asks you why? you would give your reasons, the story was compelling, great character developement, yadda yadda. Ok thats nice you said why, but for a person whos never played before or nver got into it, your reasons wont matter to them. For any game not just FF7, storyline, character, and gameplay are most important. If you like the story and its characters you would want to keep playing. The better the gameplay the more you will get into it, the more you get into it the more you'll start to like it, when you really get into it you will start to love it. So thats pretty much it, if you dont like these things in FF7 you wont start to like it, if you do is when you start start to love it.

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Originally Posted by aerisfantatic

For video gamees its really hard to say why you liked them without the simple responses, i loved the story, character, gameplay ect. But if someone asks you why? you would give your reasons, the story was compelling, great character developement, yadda yadda. Ok thats nice you said why, but for a person whos never played before or nver got into it, your reasons wont matter to them. For any game not just FF7, storyline, character, and gameplay are most important. If you like the story and its characters you would want to keep playing. The better the gameplay the more you will get into it, the more you get into it the more you'll start to like it, when you really get into it you will start to love it. So thats pretty much it, if you dont like these things in FF7 you wont start to like it, if you do is when you start start to love it.

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I agree with aerisfantatic, you either kive it or hate it, i love it, everything about it, its the game i re-started and completed the most in my life its in excess of 30+ times, i think its the perfect Final Fantasy.{{imo}}

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Originally Posted by silentenigma

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Originally Posted by Azar

Also, of all the emo antiheroes that plauge the RPG genre, I like Cloud the most, though I couldn't say why.

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I don't really like the misconception that Cloud was emo or depressed. He was cocky at the beginning and was a bit misled/tortured during his little identity crisis, but for the most part he remained pretty optimistic even later on in the game.

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Probably because it makes it easier to bash the game. There's no merit in it, especially considering the player has control over a good amount of Cloud's responses, whether you want it to be cocky/melodramatic/whatever.

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Originally Posted by Nifleheim7

I used to think that i liked it so much because it was my first FF but it's not the main reason.
FFVII (for me) has a certain charm that it's quite hard to explain.I think it's the general atmosphere of the game (music,environments,characters) that i always loved.
I also liked it's humor and that it didn't take itself very seriously (unlike FFXII for example).

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That's kinda the same for me.

I just think it came out at the right time; you've got the Playstation 1, which at the time, was the biggest thing in gaming. 3-D graphics, cd quality sound, and new innovations in games that people just weren't used to seeing. So you can imagine that when a game that has the Final Fantasy brand attached to it and it releases for Playstation, it was destined to be huge. Don't get me wrong though; I don't for once believe it was overhyped. I just think that the game releases, and now you have this gigantic RPG giant that pretty just did everything right for the time: great music, great story, amazing graphics, and just plain epic. It attracted a lot of people, many who have never touched an RPG, myself included, and they experience something they've never experienced before, and history is made.

Are those people wrong for thinking it's the best game ever? NO. Are you wrong for thinking it's NOT the best game ever? Absolutely not. Everyone is entitled to think what they think and feel what they feel about FFVII.

But here we are today, and everything about that original game is going to scream nostalgia for those gamers, and for me, that's what's keeping that game so close to my heart, is the feeling I get when I think of it. Granted, I like ideas and mechanics of some of the other FF's more (FFVIII is personally my favorite one), but FFVII just makes me feel like a kid again, remembering the thrill and joy of experiencing it for the first time. So someone can come along and tell me they think it's the worst game on the planet, but I'm not gonna knock on em for hating on it. It's not going to ruin and change how I feel about it. Sorry, never gonna happen. And in no way does that make me a "fanboy."

Squaresoft did everything right for it to be destined an instant classic.

I'm an old schooler as well. I had beaten FF 1,4 (II),6 (III) before anyone ever heard of Cloud Strife's epic tale. Well you said that 4 is your favorite, then you will be disappointed with 7. I say that because 4 is in my top 3 Final Fantasies. Love 4, such a beautiful game. 7 does have it's perks though. Play the game, but don't expect it to live up to 4,5, and 6. I'm not dogging it, 7 is good, just inferior to the others. Materia system was decent, but different from 4's class system. In the same it doesn't matter who you take in your party as all characters are the exact same except limit breaks. That's one of the errors with the materia system. Your party was REALLY your materia. And it didn't matter who you equipped it on. Your party of materia was what you were interested in to level up. Character leveling meant nothing. (You just did it with your chosen 3.) Story is inferior to the old school games. Sorry fanboys it's true. Any educated college students would agree with me, especially those that have taken Literature courses. Bottom line, play it an enjoy it for what it is, but don't expect it to live up to the greatness of the 16-bit era.

Question.

Why does anyone really care what other people feel is their favourite Final Fantasy? I mean, if I were to say I love Final Fantasy VII, then I'd probably get eyes rolled at me because you know... I couldn't possibly love any other game.

I love ff7 because of the plot. Each character has a deep story, even the optional ones. It is the only game that I do not get bored with within 3 to 4 hours of playing. Not that I ever have that much time in a day to play games anymore, but you get my point. If you are willing to involve yourself in the story and actually understand and feel what is going on, then you will greatly enjoy it.

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Originally Posted by toad626

Story is inferior to the old school games. Sorry fanboys it's true. Any educated college students would agree with me, especially those that have taken Literature courses.

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Um, I'm an educated college student, with a well rounded liberal arts background now mostly under my belt.

Even if I hadn't taken literature courses, I would still say to you - I don't see how you could discuss the "old school games" stories on any scholarly level at all.

We agree on alot of stuff; I'm just curious as to where this is coming from.

I don't need to go to college to enjoy a story :(

Just like I don't need to study food to like broccolli.


ANYWAY


On the whole CLOUD IS EMO EW thing:

He wasn't all that mopey really...and I'd be bummed too if I were him. I mean, his girlfriend got stabbed to death, and he's got a mess of self-esteem issues :p

Final Fantasy VII was the first Final Fantasy game for many gamers here.

I think the nostalgia combined with a general positive feel for the game gives it an extensive fanbase. Square Enix has filtered a few of them out by continually making games under this franchise. It is difficult for me to imagine what the first fans of this game feel like after the franchise has been marketed so heavily.

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Originally Posted by Roogle

Final Fantasy VII was the first Final Fantasy game for many gamers here.

I think the nostalgia combined with a general positive feel for the game gives it an extensive fanbase. Square Enix has filtered a few of them out by continually making games under this franchise. It is difficult for me to imagine what the first fans of this game feel like after the franchise has been marketed so heavily.

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I'm pretty sure most of us don't care (It was my first FF, but far from my first RPG).

For example, I haven't bought Dirge of Cerberus, and probably won't buy Crisis Core or before Crisis if it were to be released in the US. Not because I think they're "milking" the franchise, but because I'm not particularly interested in those kinds of games. I'm sure there's alot of other people who are, so I'm glad that Square makes games like that for them. It's really not that big of a deal. I have yet to meet a "first FF" fan of VII who has been upset by the compilation. Moreso, I'm surprised that there are people who have been. Yet most of the people I see complaining about Final Fantasy at all I have only met on the internet, and most of them are the small minority who seem to have problems with FFVII being so popular in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

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Originally Posted by toad626

Story is inferior to the old school games. Sorry fanboys it's true. Any educated college students would agree with me, especially those that have taken Literature courses.

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Um, I'm an educated college student, with a well rounded liberal arts background now mostly under my belt.

Even if I hadn't taken literature courses, I would still say to you - I don't see how you could discuss the "old school games" stories on any scholarly level at all.

We agree on alot of stuff; I'm just curious as to where this is coming from.

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You can find many themes in the old games. Many of which are the very types of subjects people like Shakespeare would use in his stories. There's plenty of epic moments in the older games. Everyone was all sad when Aeris got killed. Nothing new they did that once before in IV with Tellah. Only he died in battle using a spell that he knows will accomplish a task, but he also knows it will kill him. The sacrifice was worth the price in his eyes to defeat evil. Also with 4, the whole scene about becoming a Paladin. Leaving behind your shameful ways and looking to a brighter future. Celes states a line in 6 that I always liked. "Power only breeds War, I'd Wish I'd never been born." One can write a whole paper on the meaning of that statement and her character. Terra was a representation of diversity. I say this kind of stuff, because I actually did a few Papers on FF in a few Lit classes. One extensive one on FFX. I analyized each character. Here is a brief summary if interested http://forums.eyesonff.com/general-f...ml#post2425948 They said pick a movie or book, and I asked if that would be ok, and my professors were ok with it. One even commented back to me, that they had no idea that such themes existed in video games. Got all A's on those too.

I wouldn't go around telling people you're a liberal arts major. As in all my classes that major is a common joke. We all get stressed out for a Bio or Chem test, then someone will blurt out jokingly that they will change their major to either Liberal Arts, Communications, Business, etc.. The phony majors. And we all laugh, and almost every time even the professor joins in with their own insults of those majors.lol. It takes a good education to pick up on these themes in these games. And there are many more. 7 not as many as others though. Which is probably why so many liked it. The masses are stupid people. And yes I know I'm a snob. Damn proud of it too. I have no respect for anyone without a degree or someone in school studying to get one.

FFVII has been the love of my life! And forever will be..
why you ask?
well it was the first RPG i ever played. Not only does it have a beautiful storyline but it was more down to earth, more funny and more exciting then the rest of the other games. FFx came very close imo but VII will always have my love.
if square ever decides to remake it i think more people would enjoy it more. i really hope they do....Aeris death made me cry and that was with cwap graphics just emagan it with super cool uber graphics wowzer.

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Originally Posted by toad626

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

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Originally Posted by toad626

Story is inferior to the old school games. Sorry fanboys it's true. Any educated college students would agree with me, especially those that have taken Literature courses.

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Um, I'm an educated college student, with a well rounded liberal arts background now mostly under my belt.

Even if I hadn't taken literature courses, I would still say to you - I don't see how you could discuss the "old school games" stories on any scholarly level at all.

We agree on alot of stuff; I'm just curious as to where this is coming from.

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You can find many themes in the old games. Many of which are the very types of subjects people like Shakespeare would use in his stories. There's plenty of epic moments in the older games. Everyone was all sad when Aeris got killed. Nothing new they did that once before in IV with Tellah. Only he died in battle using a spell that he knows will accomplish a task, but he also knows it will kill him. The sacrifice was worth the price in his eyes to defeat evil. Also with 4, the whole scene about becoming a Paladin. Leaving behind your shameful ways and looking to a brighter future. Celes states a line in 6 that I always liked. "Power only breeds War, I'd Wish I'd never been born." One can write a whole paper on the meaning of that statement and her character. Terra was a representation of diversity. I say this kind of stuff, because I actually did a few Papers on FF in a few Lit classes. One extensive one on FFX. I analyized each character. Here is a brief summary if interested http://forums.eyesonff.com/general-f...ml#post2425948 They said pick a movie or book, and I asked if that would be ok, and my professors were ok with it. One even commented back to me, that they had no idea that such themes existed in video games. Got all A's on those too.

I wouldn't go around telling people you're a liberal arts major. As in all my classes that major is a common joke. We all get stressed out for a Bio or Chem test, then someone will blurt out jokingly that they will change their major to either Liberal Arts, Communications, Business, etc.. The phony majors. And we all laugh, and almost every time even the professor joins in with their own insults of those majors.lol. It takes a good education to pick up on these themes in these games. And there are many more. 7 not as many as others though. Which is probably why so many liked it. The masses are stupid people. And yes I know I'm a snob. Damn proud of it too. I have no respect for anyone without a degree or someone in school studying to get one.

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Well, you brought up literature, what do you think liberal arts encompasses? And believe me, in liberal arts classes, we have our own jokes about "hard science" majors. I'm in a class on the history of the scientific revolution and they come up everyday.

What you described for the older games aren't really themes, they're simple techniques that exist even in the most juvenile of stories. Not only is your argument weak on that point, but your summation as VII for stupid people, containing "not as many (themes)" further reveals how little you're actually using literary analysis for your points.

Anyone with background in those classes can easily point out that VII falls under the classification of modernism, or post-modernism. The game employs many Dadaist and Marxist themes throughout. This especially puts the story worlds apart from the games you mention. It also throws in a little Romanticism with the combination of the mystical with the secular.

The only previous game that comes close to being placed in a literary category is VI, being somewhat similar to romanticism, with its use of music and drama of the characters, also with magic coming back to exist in the same world with machines.

However, all of this is really irrelevant - no, you definately do not need to be very well educated in order to pick up on what these games are trying to convey. But, if you really want to bring in higher analysis to compare them, there's very little merit in proclaiming the previous ones surpass VII at all. The characters are consistently 2 dimensional and the dialogue is elementary. Everything is presented on the surface and the conclusions drawn at the end are little more than common knowledge that would be universally accepted across cultures. VII's critique of industrial capitalism, on the other hand is a little more thought provoking and is not easy to digest for some who live in such societies.

I hope you are using the term Marxism in its loosest sense wehn talking about FFVII.

Marx's ideas on capitalism had very specific tones, predictions and theories primarily retaining to communism and how it would be achieved.

FFVII had an evil corporation that ruled the world through monoplizing a valuable resource as well as military might.
This has nothing to do with Marxist theory apart from there being a giant corporation oppressing the workers.

And suggesting FFVII had any sort of radically "in-depth" character lineup is just plain laughable.

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Originally Posted by Forsaken Lover

I hope you are using the term Marxism in its loosest sense wehn talking about FFVII.

Marx's ideas on capitalism had very specific tones, predictions and theories primarily retaining to communism and how it would be achieved.

FFVII had an evil corporation that ruled the world through monoplizing a valuable resource as well as military might.
This has nothing to do with Marxist theory apart from there being a giant corporation oppressing the workers.

And suggesting FFVII had any sort of radically "in-depth" character lineup is just plain laughable.

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I never said it had any radically in-depth character lineup.

Alot of marx's ideas and those of other followers of his are present in the game, I'm surprised you missed it. One is that capitalism replaces the old hidden exploitation with naked, unashamed and blatant exploitation. This is obviously manifested in the fact that Midgar's rich live on top of their poor. This also reinforces his idea that capitalism divides society into 2 distinct camps rather than multiple groups or a hierarchy. In midgar, you're either down in the slums or up on the plate.

Another idea put forth is that it reduces all meaning of what it is to be a human being, reducing man to a machine, no better than the actual machines they work with, a variable of input. Jesse tells cloud all the different sectors used to have names, but no one remembers them anymore and they are replaced by numbers, mathematical representations rather than resulting from linguistic traditions with meaning.

Marx said that the most powerful part of capitalism is that it actually persuades those it exploits that it's in their best interest to participate in society. Many of those living in Midgar's slums express this sentiment, like the man with the TV in sector 5 (i think, whichever one Aeris' house is in).

He also wrote extensibly on how the bourgeouisie branch out from their own nation-states and try to create a world in their own image. Lenin and other Marxists, also, wrote about imperialism which stems from business interests of economic elites. This plays into the war with Wutai, in which they effectively reduced all of the traditions of a completely different culture. They do the exact same to Corel, undermining its deeply rooted cultural tradition of coal mining, and changing them to Shinra's ways. The communist manifesto went into detail on how old traditional industries are destroyed and forcefully replaced with new ones.

He talks about how it creates enormous cities, which draw population from the rural, and make them far more populous than the rural. It concentrates wealth in the hands of the few, and concentrates poverty into distinct areas, which again, goes back to the geographic segregation of midgar.

Many marxists have wrote in the 20th century about what the end result of capitalism will be, especially in the wake of globalization. They stated that all other forms of control, specifically government would be eroded until the distinction between business and government would be no more. This is absolutely inescapable in VII, as Shinra is a company...yet it governs a city and at the same time controls an army. Yet it is an enterprise. The game was especially relevant at the time, as globalization was one of the major buzz words in political discussion during the 1990's.

It's pouring out of so much of the game, I'm surprised you missed it, assuming that you understand what Marx wrote about. I'm assuming you actually don't, since you say it was specifically "retained" (?) to communism and how it would be achieved. If anything, that was the part that Marx wrote the least about. He has so many expansive works detailing every aspect of capitalism, how it operates, how it came about, to the smallest detail, yet the part on how to achieve communism was probably the smallest section of the manifesto.

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Alot of marx's ideas and those of other followers of his are present in the game, I'm surprised you missed it. One is that capitalism replaces the old hidden exploitation with naked, unashamed and blatant exploitation. This is obviously manifested in the fact that Midgar's rich live on top of their poor. This also reinforces his idea that capitalism divides society into 2 distinct camps rather than multiple groups or a hierarchy. In midgar, you're either down in the slums or up on the plate.

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Marx also predicted that that the capitalists would institute cosmetic reforms such as unions to secure their power. As the consciousness of the worker was risen, the capitalists would have to give more and more allowances to maintain their power.

Shinra never did that at all. They kept a solid class system enforced by military power and espionage.

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Marx said that the most powerful part of capitalism is that it actually persuades those it exploits that it's in their best interest to participate in society. Many of those living in Midgar's slums express this sentiment, like the man with the TV in sector 5 (i think, whichever one Aeris' house is in).

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There's also a lady in Kalm you can talk to who blesses Mako power and Shinra...

Brainwashing the masses is not something exclusive to Marxist thought. Shinra put on a very good face to the general public and for the random worker, they seemed benevolent and that they give you a handy power source for so many things.

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He also wrote extensibly on how the bourgeouisie branch out from their own nation-states and try to create a world in their own image. Lenin and other Marxists, also, wrote about imperialism which stems from business interests of economic elites. This plays into the war with Wutai, in which they effectively reduced all of the traditions of a completely different culture. They do the exact same to Corel, undermining its deeply rooted cultural tradition of coal mining, and changing them to Shinra's ways. The communist manifesto went into detail on how old traditional industries are destroyed and forcefully replaced with new ones.

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True.

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It's pouring out of so much of the game, I'm surprised you missed it, assuming that you understand what Marx wrote about. I'm assuming you actually don't, since you say it was specifically "retained" (?) to communism and how it would be achieved. If anything, that was the part that Marx wrote the least about. He has so many expansive works detailing every aspect of capitalism, how it operates, how it came about, to the smallest detail, yet the part on how to achieve communism was probably the smallest section of the manifesto.

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Coummunism is Marx's best contribution to politicial and economic theory. His studying of how Capitalism was made and how it would develop were only preludes up to what he felt was inevitably the next step and that next step was communism.

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Originally Posted by Scarmiglione

Okay, I'm about to give Final Fantasy VII one last try. I would be what you could call an "old-school FF'er". I started with IV (as II).

I want to see why people love VII so much. I've always despised VII. Hate it. I want to know why people love it. If you could, please give me reasoning. Not just vague responses like "best storyline evah!1", please elaborate why you felt that way. I also don't care for fanboy responses either such as, "Sephiroth pws all ftw!!!:love: ", or "I'd only go gay for Cloud".

Please, help me comprehend why this is such a great game; I feel I'm missing out.

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It seems to me people who like the really old Final Fantasy games don’t like 7 or 8 maybe it’s a bit like me hating Final Fantasy X and not finding the latest Final Fantasy that amazing? As for why I think the game is great, I love the story the characters and the game play I also like the many locations you go to in the game Cosmos Canyon, The Golden Saucer, Midgar, Nimbleheim, Rocket Town the list goes on and on! All the characters are different and interesting I could talk about every individual character but people who like the game already know about them.

I like the game but don't LOVE it. I notice the characters and locations but they don't click with me.

Its just a mildly enjoyable RPG to me.

Some great stuff here. But I'd like to remind you that this is a game and the creators most likely didn't put as much thought as you are when creating Midgar and Shinra. I believe they just needed some pretty bad antagonists to balance out the fact that the Protagonists were in a terrorist group, which means they also needed to include the side of the oppressed people living in the slums.

It kinda gets you thinking about what would've happened to ff7's popularity if it had been released in the U.S. shortly after September 2001 lol. I'm not even sure if they would've let SquareSoft release it here in the states.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, the protagonists were terrorists in ff8 and somewhat in ff9 stealing the princess and all.

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Originally Posted by Sephitachi7

Some great stuff here. But I'd like to remind you that this is a game and the creators most likely didn't put as much thought as you are when creating Midgar and Shinra. I believe they just needed some pretty bad antagonists to balance out the fact that the Protagonists were in a terrorist group, which means they also needed to include the side of the oppressed people living in the slums.

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This could very well be true, but the literary analysis that toad wanted to bring in the equation (I agree with you, it is irrelevant to judging video games, I said that in my initial post on the matter), alot of the classification that stories get happen by the reviewers who interpret it, even after the author is gone. People still argue today whether the metamorphesis was surrealist, marxist, freudian, or any combination of the 3. Samuel Beckett is widely regarded as a nihilist even though he claimed he wasn't.

Forsaken Lover, I'm puzzled now as to why you made your original statement since you obviously recognize the themes, at least after I blatantly pointed them out to you. And your statement about unions is taking any random piece that marx wrote about, and proclaiming its absence to equate an absence of its theory. That's a fallacy. You could apply any marxist doctrine that is missing from Bertolt Brecht's "A Man's a Man" and it wouldn't change the overall themes present. And again, your concluding statements make me question how knowledgable you are to make your intial refute. Any academician will tell you that communism, as a system, as I already said, is what he wrote the least about. Most would say it's his worst contribution to politics and economics, since it resulted in authoritarian dictatorships that repressed human and civil rights. Most would also say his best contribution to political theory was the interpretation of the nature of power, especially in the contemporary world, which has been largely accepted even by non-marxists, whereas communism as a system has been largely discredited. Most will tell you his best contribution to economics was pointing out the contradictions in classical theory, which probably played some part to leading to the new-keynesian approach. Any self proclaimed "economist" advocating communism, as a system, or that the system was any good contribution at all, would be outcast from the rest of the academic community. I'm going to leave it at that, because this isn't a debate on marxism.

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Well, you brought up literature, what do you think liberal arts encompasses? And believe me, in liberal arts classes, we have our own jokes about "hard science" majors. I'm in a class on the history of the scientific revolution and they come up everyday.

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How is that considering that one of us can go easily change majors to a Liberal Arts major, do a half ass job and pull A's no problem. Doesn't work in the reverse as a liberal arts major switching over to science would be in for a huge awakening. Liberal Arts isn't a major. Sorry, you can't do anything with that degree. Nothing that will pay anyway. Liberal Arts, It's easy. That's why America is getting really far behind in the sciences these days. Too many people are choosing the easy majors that require much less work. So they won't have to study as hard. Laziness. We are actually in trouble in the states. It's far worse than most people realize when it comes to the sciences... And yes that should matter to you as we make up your medical,fuel for your car, water treatment, energy,etc...

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What you described for the older games aren't really themes, they're simple techniques that exist even in the most juvenile of stories. Not only is your argument weak on that point, but your summation as VII for stupid people, containing "not as many (themes)" further reveals how little you're actually using literary analysis for your points.

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You study literature and can't notice themes? They are not techniques. They are Classic themes. So Hamlet's soliloquy of suicide wasn't a theme then, it was only a technique? Liberal arts majors, I tell you, what a waste. Convince themselves to promote their own nutty ideas. No wonder there's no jobs for them, and they can only hope to make a pitiful 30,000 a year.:p Compared to our 50,000, and that's without grad school/research/phd/masters, all options to go into by the way as your basic undergrad fulfills the necessary prerequisites for it. I can move on to a PharmD or Optometry from my undergrad. Anyway the old games, they aren't Modern themes true, but modernism in lit is a different from classic lit themes. And I don't care as much for modernism in my lit, as such FF7 and FF8 are on the ends of my lists of best FF for story wise purposes (only ahead of the NES games), hmmmmm.... Go figure...

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Anyone with background in those classes can easily point out that VII falls under the classification of modernism, or post-modernism. The game employs many Dadaist and Marxist themes throughout. This especially puts the story worlds apart from the games you mention. It also throws in a little Romanticism with the combination of the mystical with the secular.

The only previous game that comes close to being placed in a literary category is VI, being somewhat similar to romanticism, with its use of music and drama of the characters, also with magic coming back to exist in the same world with machines.

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And as noted earlier regarding FF7 and FF8. That's one of the biggest complaint of these 2 games, was the modernism. It was turned more into Final Sci-Fi instead of Final Fantasy. I don't quite believe that, but I do see their point. The Fantasy wasn't all there in those 2 installments compared to others. Didn't have that mystical magic feel to them. By which I mean mages, big broad knight swords. That kind of thing. Not saying that is what FF is supposed to be, but most def, has been the Fantasy feel to most of the games. Vs the Sci-Fi of 7 and 8. Not saying Final Sci-Fi is bad, but I prefer the Fantasy.

There's nothing wrong with simple dialog as long as the theme is going across as well as the characters. Otherwise you wouldn't have college students reading Harry Potter. That's as simple as they come.
You sound like a leftist with your Marxist stuff. Are you a leftist? I hate libs/democrats/republicans. Libertarian all the way. Only party that is still conservative. But I'm not going into politics. That would turn into Hate.lol.

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However, all of this is really irrelevant - no, you definately do not need to be very well educated in order to pick up on what these games are trying to convey. But, if you really want to bring in higher analysis to compare them, there's very little merit in proclaiming the previous ones surpass VII at all. The characters are consistently 2 dimensional and the dialogue is elementary. Everything is presented on the surface and the conclusions drawn at the end are little more than common knowledge that would be universally accepted across cultures. VII's critique of industrial capitalism, on the other hand is a little more thought provoking and is not easy to digest for some who live in such societies.

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Base story no, what we are talking about, only the educated would bother to try and find these types of themes. And let me guess, capitalism is bad? I disagree. I have no problem with division. I'm the one busting my ass in school, do I care about those that don't, not one bit. Everyone can work to get themselves out of a predicament to better their life, they choose not too. Granted some have to work harder than others but it is possible. That's just the way it is. Fair that some have it easier? who cares, you can't change it. That's the way it is. Why I hate leftists and people certain politicians. These ideas have always bothered me. And yes I did notice the class division in the game and I rolled my eyes too. Especially when Berrett starting spouting off about that "pizza plate" and what it was doing to the slums. No one forces anyone to live in slums. Always a way out, question is how much work will be needed.

Wow. It's like every sentence revealed just how little you know what you're talking about.

1) if you pull a half assed job and get A's you're obviously not at a challenging school for LA. And I know people from my major who switched to mathematics, physics, and chem, so again, you really don't know what you're talking about. And I just got an internship for an international marketing firm, so again, you really don't know what you're talking about. And you're right, liberal arts isn't a major - ITS A SET OF THEM! For someone who puts college on such a pedestal, you obviously know so little about it. The original subject matter of the university was philosophy, history, politics, language, argument, so again, you really don't know what you're talking about.

2) A Soliloquy isn't a theme! Again, the fact that you've already twice revealed your ignorance on what a theme is, I suggest you look at this link. A character talking about suicide is great, but what is the idea the audience is supposed to get out of it? That's what the theme is. And in FFVI, it all boils down to "suicide is bad. life is good." Again, simple statements that is regarded as common knowledge and accepted a priori across all cultures (with few exceptions). And once again, you reveal how little you actually know about the job market today. The business world is looking more towards liberal arts, or social science majors as they typically have better writing, comprehensional, reading, interpreting, speaking, and presentational skills than your average business graduate. Like I said, I study one of the social sciences and I just landed an internship with an international marketing firm that deals with some of America's largest conglomerates. So please, stop being so opinionated on things you know so little about.

3. VII and VIII have magic and swords, so I don't know what you're getting at. Also, "you sound like a leftist with your Marxist stuff"... you wanted to talk literature, marxist themes (again, not your elementary misconception of what a literary theme is) have permeated much literature throughout the 20th century and some of the 19th. You said VII had "not as many" themes as older ones, I thought I'd point some of them out, while you can't even recognize what a theme is, much less point out the larger number which older games have.

4. There are libraries full of sociological, scholarly findings that would disagree with everything you've said in your last paragraph. Also, Cloud himself said "nobody lives in the slums because they want to," so there you go, he disagrees with you, too :) . And I never said capitalism is bad, so please don't compromise your own integrity further by making me out into something I'm not, so you can continue to spout academically baseless garbage, all the while insisting that only academics could find such conclusions. It's embarrassing to academia as a whole.

Wow. It's like every sentence revealed just how little you know what you're talking about.

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1) if you pull a half assed job and get A's you're obviously not at a challenging school for LA. And I know people from my major who switched to mathematics, physics, and chem, so again, you really don't know what you're talking about. And I just got an internship for an international marketing firm, so again, you really don't know what you're talking about. And you're right, liberal arts isn't a major - ITS A SET OF THEM! For someone who puts college on such a pedestal, you obviously know so little about it. The original subject matter of the university was philosophy, history, politics, language, argument, so again, you really don't know what you're talking about.

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Times have changed. That's all Gen Eds now and considered by many of us science majors to be a waste of our time. Especially when there's no money in it. I wasn't going to bring up internships. I don't want to brag. I have been offered 2 for summer of 09. And I can't decide which to take as either will determine my end of grad school goal goal. Pharmacy or Optometry. (One starts lower starting but increases to higher than the other eventually.) A real decision for me. 110,000-124,000 or 107,000-136,000 are the articles my college has given me. I'm not in L.A. how dare you associate me with that place. I'm in Orange County. Totally different from L.A. By a up to 3 hours depending on the hour. Plus it's prettier. And it's all about Surf City U.S.A. Way better than L.A. Any university is going to be challenging. Everyone that says others are harder, I don't buy it. It's just some have more prestige than others. But you have to work just as hard at others. Myself I'm at UC Irvine. It's ok I guess on the prestige, it's no ivy or anything, but fairly well known. As for you defense of Liberal Arts being a set of majors. Ah no.:p It's just taking a few lower division classes from other majors and mixing them all together, with a few upper division also from other majors. That's not hard dude. Like the humanities and arts major is a joke. A few undergrad classes isn't nearly enough to classify yourself as being in a set of majors. The upper division are the classes that matter. Which you probably don't need much of. Nor are they very difficult. They sure don't need many upper division here for the humanities and arts major. It's not hard to BS essays dude. Doesn't work on tests in the sciences. You are right or wrong. Essays you can be wrong and still argue out of it. That's a hell of a lot easier than the other. So you have friends. I've bet they've been complaining since that they actually have to study now. A definite change from their previous major. Doesn't work with science. Major study now. Extra lab time. Rearranging equations. Solving experimental problems. Physical Chemistry will be tough all on its own and I fear that class. THAT'S AN UPPER DIVISION CLASS. Very Hard. But, at least I have to work for it. Face it dude you don't have to study for liberal arts classes. I know, because I didn't study jack for most of my gen ed and pulled a 3.5 for them. Which are similar classes. Just in liberal arts you have more of them.It's an expanse of General education, which in my opinion was a waste of time. And we should do away with most Gen Ed. Why learn crap I don't need that has nothing to do with my future as a researcher or doctor? But I admit there aren't too many Liberal Arts majors at my school. You don't go to a UC to major in Liberal Arts (humanities and arts here). That's a waste of money. Cal State would be a better option for them, as it's like 1/4 the cost. And people know that. UC's are more for the sciences law. Except Santa Barbara. Which is more better known as the University of Casual Sex and Beer. That's for a party.

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2) A Soliloquy isn't a theme! Again, the fact that you've already twice revealed your ignorance on what a theme is, I suggest you look at this link. A character talking about suicide is great, but what is the idea the audience is supposed to get out of it? That's what the theme is. And in FFVI, it all boils down to "suicide is bad. life is good." Again, simple statements that is regarded as common knowledge and accepted a priori across all cultures (with few exceptions). And once again, you reveal how little you actually know about the job market today. The business world is looking more towards liberal arts, or social science majors as they typically have better writing, comprehensional, reading, interpreting, speaking, and presentational skills than your average business graduate. Like I said, I study one of the social sciences and I just landed an internship with an international marketing firm that deals with some of America's largest conglomerates. So please, stop being so opinionated on things you know so little about.

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And again you fail to realize that anything can be a theme. You can twist anything into a theme with any subject. Scholars have been doing it for years. Why do you think they keep studying that POS Pride and Prejudiced? They are constantly finding new themes in that. The way I worded that stuff, may not have been a theme as it was too concise, but I could easily turn them into one from these subjects. You're nit picking. If I add 4-7 more words they could be themes. I'm being concise. The idea of suicide in Hamlet can be turned into many themes. That's why lit classes are so easy. It's all based on your BS skills in a thesis. Useless studies really. If I can't mathematically or scientifically prove it it's USELESS! and has no relevance. Why I hated English. I was good at it but hated it. There's no problems to solve, boring...

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3. VII and VIII have magic and swords, so I don't know what you're getting at. Also, "you sound like a leftist with your Marxist stuff"... you wanted to talk literature, marxist themes (again, not your elementary misconception of what a literary theme is) have permeated much literature throughout the 20th century and some of the 19th. You said VII had "not as many" themes as older ones, I thought I'd point some of them out, while you can't even recognize what a theme is, much less point out the larger number which older games have.

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But in VII they weren't tied to the story. 4 tied to the story, 6 tied the story... You didn't go any quest to attain a legendary sword to put behind your old life in 7. The weapons and magic were just there. Ok materia got a few crappy brief lines that made little sense that it formed from mako. And the huge materia lines were even worse. (Though it did form Cid's single storyline purpose of his space dream, so I'll give it credit there because I liked him). But that was it. But compare that wit 6's ideas of magic and relation to the story. I was mainly referring to the fact that many consider 7 and 8 sci-fi rather than fantasy. Take 8, a spaceship, what the hell was that? Related to fantasy or sci-fi? (Don't bring up FF4's ship, as that's more tied to fantasy as it was created with magic and used to transport a magical race. 8's ship was used for the same purposes that ships would be used for in the real world.) And when I say sword I'm talking a broad sword. The kind expected in fantasy literature. With some type of legend behind them. Like Sora's keyblade. Or the one I already mentioned that turned Cecil into a Paladin. Clouds weapons were way to modern looking to be in the fantasy realm. As I said I don't totally buy into all of that, but that's some issues people had with 7&8. Too modern for fantasy. And felt too Sci-Fi.
True but I don't care for Marxist themes. They are a waste of time, and I hate most lit that uses them. If I want to hear that kind of separation crap I'll just turn on that loud mouth Hillary as that's all she talks about is a communist agenda.

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4. There are libraries full of sociological, scholarly findings that would disagree with everything you've said in your last paragraph. Also, Cloud himself said "nobody lives in the slums because they want to," so there you go, he disagrees with you, too :) . And I never said capitalism is bad, so please don't compromise your own integrity further by making me out into something I'm not, so you can continue to spout academically baseless garbage, all the while insisting that only academics could find such conclusions. It's embarrassing to academia as a whole.

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All written by people with opinions. They aren't answers to anything. People may agree and call it "scholarly" but that all boils down to opinion and finding people to agree with you. Why else do we keep studying Lord of the Flies as kids? All kids hate in high school yet educators make them read it because they are of the opinion that it's a relative book. Useless. Give me hard evidence any day. Science laws or Math numbers. You come up with something someone can emulate your experiment to see if their results match. That's evidence. Opinion and stats are not evidence. And don't quote cloud. I hate cloud. Sissy emo punk tart. Did you see AC, I thought he was bad in 7...Berrett I like. People live in slums because they don't want to put the work involved to get out. I know I've been to many gov't projects for various work related reasons. Electric, water, that kind of stuff. All over the country too. The people in those places have a chance to get out, they don't take it. It's easier to remain there than work hard at school and land a good job to make something of yourself. Many get on drugs or get pregnant. They didn't have to, they chose too. So no, I don't buy into those types of arguments. I'm talking America of course. Other countries it's different. But we have the freedom to dictate our own future here. And further more if you grew up in a project, do you know how freakn easy it would be to get a scholarship and other grants? Why because it's rare. But it is possible. Too many think you have to be smart to go to college. Not at all. Just major in Liberal Arts.lol.

This isn't a debate about college and I'm not going to dwell on it more since i've proven how misconstrued your views on it are. That's for another thread, you could try "Eyes on Eachother" if you really want to go into it. Same for your socio-economic views.

Like your ramblings in the beginning of your last point, the rest is nonsensical or just plain babbling. Again, you clearly don't understand what a theme is. Cecil leaving behind his old life is a cool story, but what is it trying to convey to the gamer? You've yet to name any themes from those games, while I've listed plenty from VII.

That's why we need the A-Team and Mr. T to blow up vital reactors, causing ecological damage and death to innocent civilians.
Terrorism makes everything better!

The "class division" in VII is nothing like how Marx presents theories on how capitalism will develop.
You know why?
Because FFVII has almost nothing in common with the real world in its geopoliticial or economic design. The history of the planet, of the civilizations on the planet and everything else has zero in common with any real world history. So, you can't get to Point B because Marx's Poitn A (the history of the real world and civilization which was the basis for most of his ideas) don't exist in FFVII.

You need to get off your high horse. Others might be wrong but being a smug ass about it is just annoying and unneeded.

You also show your utter ignorance of the history of communism by saying communism failed...it was never achieved. THat's the most basic of facts.

^ I think you're confused - we're discussing literary themes, not factual representations of a theory. A specific example - Bertolt Brecht's "The Good Woman of Setzuan" deliberately takes place in a society very different from those presented in the manifesto or other writings, yet few would argue that it does not contain marxist themes, as it was the intention of the playwright himself.

And your argument of there being Marxist themes is invalid.

There's a giant coporation oppressing people...that means the game has Marxist themes how?
I've already shown you how what Marx wrote and how the game does things are totally different.

Marx said the capitalists in power would maintain their power through...no, not oppressing everyone with military might and terrorism. They'd do it through reforms that would appease the workers.

It's just a damn video game. If you guys seriously want to slap around your e-penis' to see who's bigger, you might want to go to PM's or something.

haha this has got a bit side tracked no?

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Originally Posted by Omecle

It's just a damn video game. If you guys seriously want to slap around your e-penis' to see who's bigger, you might want to go to PM's or something.

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Please use the Warn Function to allow a moderator to take the appropriate course of action in the thread. Bolivar and toad626, please feel free to create a new thread to discuss the literary themes of Final Fantasy VII.