You know how Tidus was a dream, if he was a dream how could jecht have been his father, wasnt jecht also a dream, if jecht is a dream who is his real, we know that shuyin is tidus's dream but jecht..
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You know how Tidus was a dream, if he was a dream how could jecht have been his father, wasnt jecht also a dream, if jecht is a dream who is his real, we know that shuyin is tidus's dream but jecht..
I'm sure Jecht has a person he was dreamed after, but it wasn't important to the story of FFX or X-2 so they didn't mention him.
I thought that it was pretty obvious that Jecht is a dream. Tidus' template may be based on Shuyin, but he is a completely different person. Relationships have no bearing after 1000 years, especially when it comes to completely different people. Jecht doesn't need a template; most likely Shuyin/Lenne was built to support FFX-2's love story, and operates in no other function.
He's a dream because:
A) He came from Dream Zanarkand
B) If Tidus is a dream, then his lineage must also be the same
C) Psychotic sucks
D) There is always a C
Yes i know, and understand about Tidus Being a complete different person, but who is jecht based on, why wouldnt they mention him, after all how would the dream zanarkand be there is if wasnt summoned, when did the fayth summon and bring all these dream ppl into dream zanarkand, also why was tidus the only one who could help defeat jecht i still dont understand who Jecht dreams after..Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldenboko
Ject is the dream of a dream...Tidus. That is how I see it.
It's more like a huge aeon than a dream.
Yeah, the term dreaming is misleading because we think of dreams as insubstantial. For DZ, the Fayth are collectively dreaming the city and everyone in it that a Summoner is channeling to give physical form using gravity and pyreflies.
In the original game, there was no evidence to suggest anyone in DZ was physically modeled on specific people instead of amalgams of several people (which was my view).
In X-2 the presence of Shuyin suggests the possibility that the citizens of could be physically modeled on people that existed in the real Zanarkand 1000 years before. But if Jecht had a specific progenator, he wouldn't be important to the plot of either game.
Jecht's what Tidus is basically :P
BecauseQuote:
Originally Posted by blade-maniac53Yes i know, and understand about Tidus Being a complete different person, but who is jecht based on, why wouldnt they mention himQuote:
Originally Posted by Goldenboko
Also, what?Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldenboko
Read this and understand it because it's true:Quote:
Originally Posted by Helen
And also:Quote:
Originally Posted by BG-57
Quote:
Originally Posted by No.78
The "dream" of Zanarkand is basically a whole frickin' pantheon of Aeons.[1] Seeing as Aeons seem "alive" in that sense (they have physical bodies that can be hit and incapacitated, even killed) it makes sense to me that they'd be capable of breeding to a certain extent; just means the Fayth have one more Aeon to upkeep. It's ever so slightly like the Matrix, only this time it's not necessarily one body per mind or vice versa .
Bit of a simplification but that's the easiest way to see it.
[1] Something like "They all became Fayth. Fayth for the Summoning."
Jecht is a every girls' wet dream
If you're into the "I've been rolling in the dirt" look.
Jecht is an hero. Well technically he's not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Manus
:pQuote:
Originally Posted by Roto13
I recently beat X, it's still one of my favorite games in the series but i'm still unsure about exactly what was going on.
For one, the fayth (maybe he's Bahamut since he has the ring on his back) said that Tidus and Jecht are now more than dreams, because of their relationship to Sin. Also, you see Tidus' dead mother in the farplane, how could a dream of the fayth be a fayth? Also, the ending shows Jecht with Braska and Auron in the afterlife, and Tidus goes towards them. It seems like Tidus and jecht aren't supposed to exist, but because of what happened with Sin, they do, but because they're 'creators' stopped dreaming, they weren't allowed to live and had to go to the farplane as dead people. so what the hell is going on????
And if they aren't real, how the hell does Jecht get to Spira in the first place??? Is this in a Jecht sphere or X-2, if so just letting me know that would suffice.
Jecht could get to Spira because "Dream Zanarkand" is an actual physical location somewhere in Spira. The city isn't really a dream, but a huge Aeon, all the inhabitants are also technically Aeons with their own wills. So Jecht, Tidus, etc were all physical beings in the real world, that's why it's possible for them to get from Dream Zanarkand to Spira.
As for what happened after the game ended and Tidus jumped off the ship, idunno :p.
Mmm... Just a quick question. If Tidus is basically an Aeon, why didn't Yu Yevon possess him during the final battle? I've actually been thinking about this ever since I finished playing X. Either Yu Yevon just didn't know, or Tidus isn't really classified as an Aeon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirage
well, ur right i mean maybe the fayth didnt let Yu-Yevon take control of Tidus or tidus isnt thought 2 be an aeon, Tidus isnt an aeon for the fact, he is a dream and how can u become a aeon when ur a dream??
the fayth summoned Tidus as a dream therefore he cant be a aeon as he couldnt have been taken by Yu-Yevon but then again who knows..
That's a good question. He might be a bit different than regular aeons, because after all, he isn't summoned through a human summoner. But that's just guesswork.Quote:
Originally Posted by MistaCloudStrifeMmm... Just a quick question. If Tidus is basically an Aeon, why didn't Yu Yevon possess him during the final battle? I've actually been thinking about this ever since I finished playing X. Either Yu Yevon just didn't know, or Tidus isn't really classified as an Aeon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirage
I don't think this invalidates the theory about Zanarkand and its residents being summoned by the fayth though.
It doesn't. I believe that is stated in the Ultimania guides as fact (though technically, they're summoned by Yu Yevon, not the fayth which merely provide the raw information that YY can use when summoning). As for Tidus, my only guess is that to possess Tidus, he'd have to possess all of DZ (like he had to possess all three Magus Sisters) and that may just not be possible for Yu Yevon.
The only issue this possibility raises is why was Yu Yevon able to possess Jecht. I think the way around this is to consider that YY possessed Braska's Final Aeon, and not Jecht. Treat the two as different entities. He couldn't possess Jecht as a human Aeon, but when he became a Fayth and Final Aeon too, that he could capitalise upon...
I was actually wanting to mention that Yu Yevon was summoning Zanarkand and all that, but I wasn't entirely sure, so I left it out.
It's called a plot hole, just like the kind that lets Irvine shoot at Edea through the back wall of her parade float, or that lets Irvine not get arrested while Squall, Rinoa, Quistis and the others all do.
Too bad though; killing Tidus after killing all the Aeons would have ruled.
It doesn't have to be a plot hole. So far, some of the people in here just don't know all the details.
Well... I think Jetch is like more than a dream because he was brought to Spira to be the guardian for Braska. Then he turned to Sin. So I guess Sin is a dream, too?
no, Sin is an aeon, Braska Chose Jecht to become Sin, Jecht didnt know that he was going 2 be sin, braska asked jecht and jecht said yes however jecht is a dream taking control of an aeon, he was the only one who had to be Sin
Maybe when people become fayth they gain some kind of power allowing them to create people from their minds.
Aeons are dreams too.
Or dreams are aeons. It's just unusual terminology.
No. Jecht was not brought to Spira for any purpose. It was an accident, nothing more.Quote:
Originally Posted by tidus_rox
However, the act of ending up in Spira did make him more than a Dream in a way, as real people will now remember him, which is more than can be said for DZ which can be turned on and off at Yu Yevon's whim.
No. Sin is not an aeon. Sin is a magical construct built by Yu Yevon. Sin is made of pyreflies bonded and shaped by gravity magic onto whatever aeon is at Sin's core. Summoning magic is very similar (ie, its the formation of pyreflies into a physical entity), but it takes a completely different method.Quote:
Originally Posted by blade-maniac53
Braska did not choose Jecht to be Sin. Jecht volunteered to be the fayth of Braska's Final Aeon.
Jecht does not take control of any aeons. Jecht is by his very nature an Aeon, and then becomes a Final Aeon too. He is then possessed by Yu Yevon (who then builds a new Sin on top of BFA using magic and pyreflies, not summoning magic).
Anyone could be Sin, provided they happened to be an aeon in the presence of Yu Yevon shortly after the previous Sin-Core was killed. Even the temple Aeons could be sin if Yuna and co ran off during the final battles.
That's a way of thinking about it. :) The fayth dream of a physical entity, and when a summoner summons, they use the fayth's dream and manipulate pyreflies to give the dream a physical structure.Quote:
Originally Posted by blackmage_nuke
I agree that the terminology is awkward. It seems a lot of people get hung up on the word dream and think that DZ is inherently imaginary. I personally think that the terminology is quite poetic, but then I wouldn't know a good poem if it was staring me in the face... :p
Yu Yevon is responsible for the creation of ghosts. Of course, Jecht was a dream. After beating Yu Yevon, all of the ghosts have disappeared. Jecht and Tidus were real persons though, Yu Yevon who summoned Sin drained souls from people including Jecht and Tidus whose Sin swallowed.
I'm probably confused with your use of the word ghost Serapy. I take it by ghost you're refering to the Fayth.
Yu Yevon was responsible for the summoning of Dream Zanarkand, and the creation of Sin by magic. YY never drained souls from anyone. Pyreflies are likely the soul of one's soul in the mythos, but the pyreflies (or souls if you prefer) YY used to build Sin were already dissociated from people (ie, the souls were already dead and just weren't sent to the Farplane).
Well thats clear :rolleyes2 as mud. Lets just summarize. Tidus, an aeon from DZ, becomes "more than a dream", then fades and goes to the Farplane (still not explained IMO). Jecht, same business to start, then becomes BFA, is destroyed and goes to the Farplane - how? Most aeons when destroyed do NOT go to the FP. They disintegrate into pyre flies and reconstitute when next summoned. Why the difference?
:choc::choc::choc:
...maybe aeons live on the farplane when they arent being summoned
Cally, the difference is that Jecht was actually killed so, like Tidus' mother, he was free to go to the farplane. Tidus on the other hand went to the farplane because the gagazet fayth, who provide the template for his existence, were sent. Otherwise he would've stayed in Spira.
blackmage_nuke, I think I once read that the temple aeons spend their time in DZ when they're not being summoned or their fayth prayed to...
Thank you Little Blue, for explaining these things. Saved me for a lot of typing.
There's actually direct evidence of that in the game. Tidus encounters the Fayth of Bahamut in DZ right at the beginning.Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Blue
On the matter of Temple Aeons, it's clear that many of them became Fayth after the destruction of Zanarkand. In particular Anima's Fayth is very recent. Do they just feed into the dream of the Gagazet Fayth, or are they dreaming separately? The implication seems to be they are connected.
Well actually he couldve just been visiting DZ, he appears in other places in the game as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by BG-57There's actually direct evidence of that in the game. Tidus encounters the Fayth of Bahamut in DZ right at the beginning.Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Blue
Of course, but my point is that were it not for his appearance in DZ, we'd be forgiven for assuming the Temple Fayth spend all their down time entombed in their respective Temples.
Thereīs only one reason Yu Yevon didnīt merge with Tidus. Itīs because Tidus earned himself a soul, when he came in contact with Sin. The same goes for Jetch. This does not mean he (Tidus) had a phisycal body of a human and the proof is that he disapperead.
I mean, soul is a kind of pyrefly. The contact with Sin affected that pyrefly within Tidus, and transformed in a higher pyrefly.
OR "gave" Tidus a pyrefly of that kind, because of Sinīs Gravity spell.
Thatīs the key: soul. The "kind of pirefly" that exhists only in humans, never in Aeons or Dreams (Dark Aeons in FF X-2 were summoned by the corrupted fayth, as Bahamutīs fayth states in game).
My guess is that Yu Yevon NEEDS an Aeon (dream), WITHOUT a human soul, what is not the case of Jetch and Tidus. Jetch was not "the Final Aeon itself", he was THE FAYTH for the Final Aeon. Yu Yevon took control, IN FIRST PLACE, of THE FINAL AEON. THEN, he started to CORRUPT THE FAYTH BEHIND THE FINAL AEON, in this case, Jetch.
FAYTH CAN BE CORRUPTED with anger, as FF X-2 explains, like Shuyin did to the fayth in Farplane. Thatīs why they summoned corrupted Aeons. What I donīt get is who was the summoner for the Dark Aeons. I presume it was Shuyin, in Baralaiīs or Noojīs body. Otherwise, we would be forced to believe Summons could exhist without a summoner, and the theory would be supported by the fact that Yojimbosīs fayth "summoned Yojimbo himself" as he fought Yuna in the Cavern of Stolen Fayth.
I mean, how Yojimboīs fayth could have made his dream REAL, without a summoner? Nobody summoned Yojimbo at the cavern.
However, that theory does not explain how Shuyin can take control of humanīs souls.
We can think that the difference is: Shuyn donīt make a fusion, just a mental control on his subjects, while Yu Yevon process is all about merging totally (physically and mental) with his victims.
And Yu Yevon was in an "automatic mode"...
I always thought Dream Zanarkand was just that....a dream. But Yuna and Jecht and Tidus all speak about 'going back' there...so DZ is an actual location, just no one knows where it is? I think it is in Sin or part of Sin, because Auron had to 'ride Sin' to get there...When you're fighting Sin before you go into its mouth you see what looks like a miniature city on its back. That's what gave me the idea that DZ must be somewhere where Sin is. But it's clearly being summoned by the fayth at Mt. Gagazet right?
And yes Jecht is a dream the fayth say so themselves: "you, your father, your mother...all dreams" (when Tidus collapses at the Mt. Gagazet fayth). I think that particular fayth (Bahamut) perhaps is responsible for the creation of Tidus, i.e. Tidus's guardian fayth? Because it is he who appears to Yuna at the end of X-2 and says he will continue dreaming for a little longer.
But there's no doubt that Jecht's a dream in the same way as Tidus, but the contact with the living entity of Sin and being tangible in Spira made them more than just dreams. However, they still relied on fayth to keep them alive. That's why with the destruction of Yu Yevon, the fayth ceased to dream and they vanished.
When Tidus wakes up after the credits he is clearly not in the Farplane (as that scene is intergrated into the perfect ending of X-2, making him technically below the waters of Besaid). However Yuna never goes to the Farplane in X-2 to see if he will appear so that's another question mark.
Who was Yu-Yevon? I know it was that thing at the end of the game, but who?
He was the ruler of the original Zanarkand. A great summoner among summoners. He realized that Zanarkand was doomed when Bevelle invaded so he convinced his followers to become Fayth en masse so he could summon an idealized version of their city (DZ). Yu Yevon is protected by the armor of Sin, and has continued to summon continuously for 1000 years. It's by this point that the Fayth are growing tired of the dreaming.