SNES to DS changes

Here are the list of changes that was made to the remake of FF IV. Some that we know about, some that we didn't know

Final Fantasy IV DS: SNES To DS Changes

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You now control Cecil in battle in the opening sequence

New flashback scene of Cecil/Kain dueling in Baron Castle

Additional dialogue between Cecil/Rosa in Baron Castle bedroom (?)

Extended scene in village of Mist between Cecil/Kain/Rydia

Rydia has a new companion, the Pochika

Subtle map changes to towns and dungeons (ie: On the peak of Mt.Ordeals, instead of a small shrine, there is now a stone tablet which teleports you to a shrine)

Namingway has a new job as Mappingway (changing names appears to be unavailable due to voice acting)

Decant Ability System

Auto Battle System

Auto-map, rewards for 100% exploration per level

Cecil cannot equip bows or staves

Cecil gains more white magic spells (protect, shell, raise)

New magic spells Ultima, Faith, Brave, Bubble

Arrows are not consumed when shooting a bow, and come in quantity of 1 from chests

Characters rejoin at set levels

Tellah is now able to earn sufficient MP above 90, with sufficient level ups. (thus allowing meteor to be cast early.)

Bosses are generally harder and have new attack patterns

New Hidden bosses

Kain and Palom are now right handed

Item capacity increase

Switching weapons mid-battle takes up a turn

Gilbert can select songs to perform

Bows are fixed on the right hand, while arrows are fixed on the left

Bows no longer cause extra damage to flying targets

Spears no longer cause extra damage to flying targets

Child Rydia learns different spells over the long run

Various characters have different stat gains

Stat changes past level 71 are no longer random but controled by equipped decants

Spell damage has increased for most spells

Bio damage reduced

Can use spells from the magic menu without going back to the main menu after each turn

Every character except Cid naturally gains MP

Edge can no longer equip claws

Exit/Warp is disabled in all Castles and towns. (prevents bugs, like fetching the dark crystal early.)

Warp is completely disabled in the Sealed cave. you now have to walk all the way back out.

Warp now puts you at the start point of the previous room.
Elixirs can now be bought (from hummingways).

Bahamut's megaflare attack cannot be reflected.

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Tellah is now able to earn sufficient MP above 90, with sufficient level ups. (thus allowing meteor to be cast early.)

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Doesn't that defeat the purpose of it being his one shot spell? >.>

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Bows no longer cause extra damage to flying targets

Spears no longer cause extra damage to flying targets

Bahamut's megaflare attack cannot be reflected.

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Doesn't that defeat the entire strategy for dealing with Bahamut? And the rest just forget the reason why you used Bows and Spear to begin with?

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Cecil cannot equip bows or staves

Arrows are not consumed when shooting a bow, and come in quantity of 1 from chests

Kain and Palom are now right handed

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These just make me cry inside. :cry:

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Every character except Cid naturally gains MP

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That just makes me go wtf.

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Namingway has a new job as Mappingway (changing names appears to be unavailable due to voice acting)

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His new "job" is actually to endow you with various gifts; such as the mapping function, bestiary, sound test, and cut scene viewer; as you talk to him in various locations throughout the game. Mappingway is just one of the many new names he adopts throughout this side-quest.

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Tellah is now able to earn sufficient MP above 90, with sufficient level ups. (thus allowing meteor to be cast early.)

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For anyone planning to do this, know that it must begin well after "sufficient" level-ups, because it never happened while Tella was in my party.

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Bosses are generally harder and have new attack patterns

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Understatement of the year.

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Item capacity increase

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If by "increased," you mean "unlimited."

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Gilbert can select songs to perform

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You also get more as you level up, as with magic and ninjutsu.

Speaking of ninjutsu, Edge also learns three new techniques: earthy Doton, windy Fuujin, and icy Hyouton.

Total, buying, this, game.

I'm not really happy with a lot of these changes. I guess I'll comment on the ones that stand out for me

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You now control Cecil in battle in the opening sequence

Rydia has a new companion, the Pochika

Namingway has a new job as Mappingway (changing names appears to be unavailable due to voice acting)

Decant Ability System

Cecil cannot equip bows or staves

Arrows are not consumed when shooting a bow, and come in quantity of 1 from chests

Tellah is now able to earn sufficient MP above 90, with sufficient level ups. (thus allowing meteor to be cast early.)

New Hidden bosses

Kain and Palom are now right handed

Spell damage has increased for most spells

Bio damage reduced

Edge can no longer equip claws

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That's going to be quite weird. They expect you to defeat a Zuu at the start of the game. I also doubt they'll give Cecil a free FireBomb...

I wonder what the Pochika does...

I actually like how you can't change names anymore. It'd only mess up the voice acting.

I don't really like the sound of the new ability system. They should've just enabled party member switching like in the GBA Version. It'll also ruin the "locked jobs" theme that FFIV is famous for.

They should've still allowed Cecil to equip bows and staves. That's what made him more unique than other fighters from other FFs. I know most people don't equip him with those but it is useful (using Artemis Bows on dragons doing insane damage, using the Sage's Staff to revive people).

The arrows, I'm somewhat okay with since Rydia fans will no longer be able to bash on Rosa saying that her bows and arrows are too expensive to be replacing all the time (seriously, liking one thing doesn't mean you have to hate on the other).

I'm not pleased with Tellah's MP being able to increase (they should've at least disabled Meteor from being cast).

I'm wondering where these new bosses will be...

They should've kept Kain and Palom left handed. It's not like it would be too hard for them to keep that.

Sure, they power up every spell except for Bio which they weaken (bye bye BennennaanaaaNAAWOU).

They also should've left Edge to be able to equip claws. That way you wouldn't have to throw them out after losing Yang.

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Originally Posted by Evastio

That's going to be quite weird. They expect you to defeat a Zuu at the start of the game. I also doubt they'll give Cecil a free FireBomb...

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You only need to defeat a couple Floateyeballs, which is still a cinch with Cecil's Darkness ability. And if that's not enough, yes, they still give you a free White Fang and Red Fang to bust out, as well.

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I don't really like the sound of the new ability system. They should've just enabled party member switching like in the GBA Version. It'll also ruin the "locked jobs" theme that FFIV is famous for.

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Decant Items are permanently married to the characters you use them on, so their jobs are still locked in that sense. They're also scarce enough that you're not at all likely to give one character so many that his custom abilities will start distracting from his original role in battle. On the contrary, if you use them intelligently, you'll be augmenting those roles, not rewriting them. For example, as a Paladin, Cecil has high HP, high defense, and the Cover ability, so you'll naturally want to give him Counter.

Having used it, I can say this system definitely preserves the spirit of the original game more than the cavalier party-swapping in the GBA version.

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Sure, they power up every spell except for Bio which they weaken (bye bye BennennaanaaaNAAWOU).

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Worry not: Bio's sound effect is still totally radical.

The best additions to the game are the new abilities and the re-designed boss battles. I never liked the way the original offered so little in the way of customization after coming off the job-system in FFIII. The decant abilities make the game more like FFIX, where everyone has their own specific classes but still allow for some choice in how you construct your party. The boss battles are all excellent; they are by far the toughest in the series. Battles you could just breeze through in the original like Cagnazzo and Golbez actually require some thought this time around (unless you grind for hours or something). Leviathan is a nightmare. Funnily enough, Demon Wall is now one of the easier bosses in the game.

I thought it was a pretty decent remake overall. The story seems to be almost identical to the original (I can’t read Japanese, but all the scenes seem to play out in exactly the same manner) besides some deviations around the Giant of Babel (namely a few flashbacks). So it’s not really a whole new experience like SE seemed to imply it would be around the time it was announced (not much of this supposed ‘cut content’ from the original seems to have been added, if the amount cut was indeed as extensive as they said it was) but it’s definitely better then the original or the GBA port, even though I was a little disappointed that they don’t let you chose your final party like you can in the latter. Of course, considering how tacked on that aspect was in the GBA version, maybe it's better without.

I don't understand the point of making Kain and Palom right-handed, or why spears/bow are no longer a weakness for aerial monsters. That sucks.

Edit: Last I checked, you could not use warp and exit in the Sealed Cave in the previous versions either, so that's not really a change. And if I'm not mistaken, Warp always brought you back in the previous room.

Also added bonus, the Hummingways now sell Sirens to boot, making Adamant Armour hunting a much less daunting task (still takes hours though). There's also a bunch of new items in the form of Onion Equipment that you can collect from various Dragon-type enemies with their tails, though most of them aren't worth the effort except perhaps the Onion Sword.

They really wanted to make things a challenge in this remake.

The Bahamut thing unsettles me, though... How in the world is one supposed to beat him without using reflect!?

You just have to play it straight. Unlike every other boss, though, I think he's actually easier in the remake.

I like these changes.

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I wonder what the Pochika does...

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Here's an explanation of Pochika from a member of another forum:

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Rydia's battle-replacement summon Pochika (the marshmallow thing) has stats dependent on the number of times you successfully play minigames provided by the fat chocobo. The games vary in difficulty and goal, and which games are available depends on your current party members. An example is a stopwatch game performed with Rosa, where the player tries to hold the pen to the screen for a certain number of seconds while distracting music and sound effects go off in the background.

If you play the games obsessively enough, Pochika's stats fly through the roof, making him a pretty good automated fighter, mage, or healer. When summoned, his battle commands are randomly determined from a customizable list of every ability and spell which your current party's characters can perform.

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This excites me. I can't wait for this game.

When is it coming out?

The Japanese version was released on December 20. There hasn't been a date announced for an American release yet, but Nintendo Power--and conventional wisdom--claim it's forthcoming.

I didn't realise it was actually possible to get the dark crystal early so that was news to me.

The changes seem pretty decent on the whole. Obviously some are going to be more obvious than others (I mean, does controlling Cecil in the opening battle matter a great deal really?). On the whole, I don't have any real objections to them.

How far along have you played into it anyway, Kishi?

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Originally Posted by Kawaii Ryûkishi

The Japanese version was released on December 20. There hasn't been a date announced for an American release yet, but Nintendo Power--and conventional wisdom--claim it's forthcoming.

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Ah. Did they make it challenging this time around?

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Originally Posted by Jowy

How far along have you played into it anyway, Kishi?

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All the way. I beat it a few days after its release.

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Originally Posted by Poetically Pathetic

Did they make it challenging this time around?

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Originally Posted by Kawaii Ryûkishi

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Bosses are generally harder and have new attack patterns

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Understatement of the year.

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Originally Posted by Crossblades

New magic spells Ultima, Faith, Brave, Bubble

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These actually aren't new "magic spells," but rather possible functions of the "twin" command through certain character combinations.

Twin magic is still magic! It costs MP and everything.

Yeah, but if I read that before having played the game I'd assume it just meant new normally casted spells. Twin magic is a hassle and a half.

There are a few things I'm annoyed about, though I found something that isn't a new feature.

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Elixirs can now be bought (from hummingways).

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Isn't there a Hummingway Cave on the Moon that allows you to buy Elixirs?

Anyway, I'll post what I'm annoyed about later. Right now, I'm tired.

Yeah, you could always buy Elixirs, but their price has been slashed from 100,000 gil to 50,000 in the remake. The Hummingway dealer also now supplies X-Potions for 3000, Remedies for 500, and Alarms for 3000.

Many shop inventories were altered for the remake, actually.

I'm mostly looking forward to story changes. I've read somewhere that plot parts that were left out in the SNES version will now be restored, so I'm like *_* .

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Originally Posted by KoShiatar

I'm mostly looking forward to story changes. I've read somewhere that plot parts that were left out in the SNES version will now be restored, so I'm like *_* .

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I don't know a lick of Japanese, but I know the original like the back of my hand. As far as I could tell there was only one extra scene in the entire game. If there was anything else added it would have to be additional/changed dialog.

What's your judgement on it, Kishi?

How does the Decant Ability System work for the Twin Command? Do you have to set it to two players with MP? Furthermore, does anyone know why all characters except Cid naturally gain MP? I would assume that the temporary characters have no way of expending MP.

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Originally Posted by KoShiatar

What's your judgement on it, Kishi?

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There were several scenes that had more dialogue than I remembered being in the original version, although now that I've gone back and replayed some of it, maybe there was always that much.

But saying there's only one extra scene is pretty misleading. It's more like a series of scenes, including a short playable sequence, that are all presented together at one point in the game. And I can recall at least one more scene that occurred outside that event, as well.

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Originally Posted by Roogle

How does the Decant Ability System work for the Twin Command? Do you have to set it to two players with MP?

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Usually, you get one Decant Item per ability; with Twin, you get two and apply them to a pair of your choice. Which combination of characters you select determines whether the resulting magic will be Brave, Faith, Bubble, the twins' original spells, or Ultima.

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Furthermore, does anyone know why all characters except Cid naturally gain MP? I would assume that the temporary characters have no way of expending MP.

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There are several Decant Items whose abilities require MP use, so it's important that even characters with no native magical abilities have a stock of MP to accommodate them; otherwise, it would restrict your options in forming a strategy to your liking.

I suppose they singled out Cid just to keep him unique. It's pretty inconsequential in his case, as he's only with the party for about two dungeons anyway.

Well, kishi. On a scale of 1-10 what would you rate the game

I give it two out of two cheering Lydias. :onnanoko::onnanoko:

As much as I enjoyed it, I couldn't give it a perfect score.

The Matrix team really learned from the mistakes and missteps they made in the development and presentation of Final Fantasy III, however, there is definitely still room for improvement. Many of the interface odds and ends seem as though they were rush-jobs or last-minute tack-ons, and some just flat out annoyed me.

One example is the minimap, which, to be honest, looks and feels like a testing placeholder that never got replaced with the clean, presentable version, and is pretty buggy to boot.

Another is the awkward command window set-up. You can rearrange and replace commands in much the same fashion as you could with Gogo in Final Fantasy VI, except some certain commands cannot be removed, such as item. That's all fine and good, but the issue comes from the fact that you are incapable of even rearranging these commands, and they are locked in whatever position they originally come on any given character. Once you start adding decant abilities, this poor design starts to make all of your command windows look inconsistent and unorganized.

Then a bunch of less major, but still majorly frustrating things, like the spell lag in menus.

So there you have it: worlds better than III, a testament to the Matrix team's ability to learn from and grow out of their mistakes, and loads of fun, but still imperfect in the end.

I'm not sure what to think of FF IV DS, to be honest. I was very excited for it, but once I played it, I couldn't help but feel incredibly dissapointed, so dissapointed I was unable to enjoy the game for a while (this later changed (luckily) when I saw the awesome Golbez-entrance in Fabul, but still).

I'm pretty sure most people will claim "Ha, miles better than III DS!" but I have to disagree. They are pretty even IMO. IV DS doesn't really improve much over III DS. The graphics one could consider better, but I find them worse than III, no offense. Things lack detail, clothes seem to be the character's skin instead of their clothes, plants in villages seem like paper... In III, things had more detail. At least, that's the impression I got. This is very obvious in battles. In III you had a good view of everything, in IV the camera zoomed out drastically when compared to III to allow more monsters on the screen, but in doing so detail was lost for the characters. In general, I just feel like everything lacks the detail FF III did have for everything. I know why this was done, but that doesn't mean I should like it.

When it comes to the technical aspects of the game, I don't see it improving over III DS that much either. There are still many loading times, and starting up a battle in IV takes as long as, if not longer, than in III DS.

There is use of the second screen, yes. This is the only thing I really feel was improved over III. They could have easily given III this auto-mapping system, why they choose not to is beyond my ability to understand.

The soundtrack is okay, the change is not that drastic when compared to III. This is understandable I guess, for III was NES music changed to DS music and that's a huge difference, whereas IV was SNES to DS and it's not that different.

The VA and the storyline-scenes are impressive, I give SE that much. Like I said before, the scene were Golbez makes his grand entrance in Fabul was amazing for a DS game, me thinks. Thing is, so far, while the VA is good, it's a let down because there simply isn't enough of it. SE hyped this aspect of the game pretty much, so I expected more.

In general, I feel like SE tried to do more with the game than the DS could handle. It is not the improvement over III DS I had hoped it would be. It is on the same level, it improved some things but made a step backwards in other things. This makes me fear that the DS has reached its limits. Maybe SE should have waited for a more powerful handheld or should have gone with the PSP to remake this. (I'm not saying this to annoy people) For in the end, while IV DS is certainly a great game, arguably the best RPG so far on the DS, it still feels incomplete in some areas and in other parts it feels like it tried to be more than it could be. Too bad, I guess. But on the other hand, I'm relieved, now at least I don't feel like SE screwed III DS anymore. =P

Necronopticous, what mistakes (specifically) did you feel they made in III that they learned from/improved upon for IV?

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Originally Posted by Necronopticous

That's all fine and good, but the issue comes from the fact that you are incapable of even rearranging these commands, and they are locked in whatever position they originally come on any given character. Once you start adding decant abilities, this poor design starts to make all of your command windows look inconsistent and unorganized.

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Can you give an example? I wonder if it is possible to edit the command lines with an editing device. I have looked for that type of thing in the past to fix organizational mistakes from programmers on other games.

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Originally Posted by Roogle

Can you give an example? I wonder if it is possible to edit the command lines with an editing device. I have looked for that type of thing in the past to fix organizational mistakes from programmers on other games.

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Basically wherever the item command starts on the menu it's stuck there. So for Kain he has Attack, Jump and Item in that order. So you can remove/replace/rearrange Attack and Jump, but Item will always occupy the third slot. I will admit it's an annoyance and something that could've been sorted out in a manner of minutes coding-wise. Even if they don't let you remove it it wouldn't have taken much to allow you to change it's position.

I also want to point out that when you go back and play FF3 you really notice the framerate drop that has occurred with FF4. Playing FF3 is like someone turned on the fast-forward button. It really highlights how much the graphics system chugs along. I don't know much about DS hardware capabilities, but if this was a performance issue then it could in theory be dealt with with better graphical routines.

It is unfortunate to hear about the hardware slowdown for Final Fantasy IV on the Nintendo DS; moreover, it reminds me of a similar hardware slowdown that took place on Final Fantasy IX on the Playstation because of the increased number of polygons on the screen due to a four person party.

I think that the menu and commands problem has a slight chance of being fixed in the localization process. I will be prepared to look for a modification code with a device, too, when the game comes out — things like that really annoy me.

I'm still quite excited about it, my DS is getting dusty from being underused.:D

The hardware slowdown is not a problem or annoyance at all, don't worry about that.

My opinions, hope it's still ok to post here.

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You now control Cecil in battle in the opening sequence

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That’s kind of hit and miss for me. I like to take part in battles naturally, but I always considered that fight to be more storyline – plus I like how it misleads you into thinking that Cecil has some really cool attack to use. (for those who don’t know – they are actually items.)

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New flashback scene of Cecil/Kain dueling in Baron Castle

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This sounds interesting, however I don’t really like how they’re taking a OLD GAME and adding these NEW SCENES into them. Either make a new game, or think up these scenes in the first place, unless that said scene was intended for the game a cut for some reason. However, I am intrigued by this scene, so I can probably over look this.

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Additional dialogue between Cecil/Rosa in Baron Castle bedroom (?)

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Again, it just seams silly doing this – it’s almost as if they’re rewriting themselves.

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Extended scene in village of Mist between Cecil/Kain/Rydia

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This is probably similar, but I actually welcome it, as the scene I think they’re talking about went far too quickly to be as dramatic as it was.

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Rydia has a new companion, the Pochika

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Sounds cool to me.

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Subtle map changes to towns and dungeons (ie: On the peak of Mt.Ordeals, instead of a small shrine, there is now a stone tablet which teleports you to a shrine)

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Doubled-sword again. I like how this change works a bit better, and makes more sense, but it just seams a bit strange to suddenly decide against what was originally intended.

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Namingway has a new job as Mappingway (changing names appears to be unavailable due to voice acting)

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I always considered Namingway to be a stupid method of naming characters, so I don’t mind this change, and I am interested to see what the “Mappingway” actually does. Oh wait, this game has voice acting? Well that’s my interest in buying this game severely diminished then!

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Decant Ability System

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Does not make any sense to me; “Pour out Ability System”? “Transfer Ability System”? Oh, does it mean that you can transfer each other’s abilities? A bit silly as they where good that way.

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Auto Battle System

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Boring. I never use this on RPG Maker, so why would I use this on actual game?

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Auto-map, rewards for 100% exploration per level

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What?

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Cecil cannot equip bows or staves

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Always preferred him with a sword, so doesn’t matter to me.

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Cecil gains more white magic spells (protect, shell, raise)

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This sounds pretty good, I still say it’s silly redoing all they’ve done – I just don’t always like the concept of remaking things this way.

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New magic spells Ultima, Faith, Brave, Bubble

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Like above.

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Arrows are not consumed when shooting a bow, and come in quantity of 1 from chests

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Where they ever? And if that’s a mistake doesn’t defeat the RPG feeling?

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Characters rejoin at set levels

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So, Kain is now the weakest character in the game then? Just, great!

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Tellah is now able to earn sufficient MP above 90, with sufficient level ups. (thus allowing meteor to be cast early.)

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What? No, no, no! The whole point of that storyline was that he couldn’t use Meteor without exceeding his strength – hence why it was such a big deal he died later.

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Bosses are generally harder and have new attack patterns

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Fair enough.

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New Hidden bosses

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How do they know if they’re hidden :p Seriously this sounds interesting. Again though, why not just make another game?

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Kain and Palom are now right handed

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Why? Are lefties not cool enough? (not intended to offend), there was no reason to change this, it made it more “real” that left handed people existed in this world.

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Item capacity increase

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Makes sense, I thought it was far to limited

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Switching weapons mid-battle takes up a turn

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Sounds good, but it may annoy some.

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Gilbert can select songs to perform

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Brilliant, I didn’t like how it was done before. Hang on… this is Edward, right?

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Bows are fixed on the right hand, while arrows are fixed on the left

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Pretty pointless change if you ask me.

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Bows no longer cause extra damage to flying targets

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Why did this get removed? It’s like Fire attacks no longer damaging Ice enemies…

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Spears no longer cause extra damage to flying targets

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Again, Why?

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Child Rydia learns different spells over the long run

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[Reserved]

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Various characters have different stat gains

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[reserved]

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Stat changes past level 71 are no longer random but controled by equipped decants

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That sounds pretty interesting, I don’t know if it is.

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Spell damage has increased for most spells

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[Reserved]

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Bio damage reduced

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[Reserved]

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Can use spells from the magic menu without going back to the main menu after each turn

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Finally. It was stupid the other way.

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Every character except Cid naturally gains MP

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[Reserved]

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Edge can no longer equip claws

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Shame, I liked them.

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Exit/Warp is disabled in all Castles and towns. (prevents bugs, like fetching the dark crystal early.)

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Well if it fixes bugs then ok.

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Warp is completely disabled in the Sealed cave. you now have to walk all the way back out.

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While this seams like a fair change, it’s probably really annoying.

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Warp now puts you at the start point of the previous room.
Elixirs can now be bought (from hummingways).

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[reserved]

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Bahamut's megaflare attack cannot be reflected.

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I wasn’t aware it could be, but I’m pleased it can’t now.

Please read the rest of this thread. Most of your concerns about various changes have been addressed in previous posts.

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Originally Posted by Kawaii Ryûkishi

Please read the rest of this thread. Most of your concerns about various changes have been addressed in previous posts.

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Such is the curse of procrastination. I started my reply when the thread first started and admitidly was in a rush to get it done - I apologies, and will read the rest of the thread, but please leave my reply so I can edit it when finished.

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Originally Posted by MJN SEIFER

I started my reply when the thread first started and admitidly was in a rush to get it done

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You started your reply to this a month ago? What the hell man?

He's very patient. :choc2: