The Decline of Hip Hop

Who else thinks that lately that Hip hop and rap has just gone downhill? I mean we aren't getting that many good or unique artists anymore. Seriously it wasn't this bad when I was young I feel sorry for these new group of teenagers listening to this garbage. Lil Mama and Soulja Boy need their contracts ripped. Come on, that Youtune song he made that made him famous is garbage it just repeats that horrible tune and he barely does any rapping and the rapping that he does is weak. have you heard of his newest video check it out here, the worst garbage ever. Nas was right this genre's dying.

Modern popular rap and hip hop is absolutely awful. There's no innovation or attempts to push the genre making it to the mainstream.

I blame it on the fact that most people could be qualified as musically retarded. They don't want to hear creative beats, or uniquely arranged samples, or socially biting critique in the lyrics. They want to hear the same THUMP... THUMP THUMP, with a steel drum playing four notes, and a guy yelling "SUPAMAN THAT HO" in a barely intelligible voice for five minutes.

It's sad, but it's this way with most things in pop culture. I read a good article on anti-intellectualism in the US that really explains this pretty well. People are just stupid.

"Unique hip hop artist" is kind of an oxymoron.

How?

I always dread Hip Hop threads on this forum because every time I look in it I'm afraid someone who is totally ignorant about the genre will have come in and said something dumb and make me cringe with embarrassment for them. I think post #3 is a record!

Anyway, Mainstream Rap and Hip Hop has been utter :skull::skull::skull::skull:e for longer than I can recall. But the non-mainstream stuff is thriving quite well, I think. At least most of the stuff I'm hearing these days is good :skull::skull::skull::skull:. It's none of these artists fault that the mainstream public are idiots. It just means you have to get out and look for good stuff yourself. Last year had one of the best Hip Hop albums come out for mine, was easily in my #5 of the year. In fact, if Windmills of the Soul was last year that would make two, but I can't remember.

...but you have to wonder how they got so far :p


The only way I have of knowing popular Hip Hop music is people talking about it at school, since I don't really listen to it myself. Personally I thought that the Souja Boy song they kept rapping was kinda funny n.n

There was some talk about a song with the meow mix theme in it. I wanted to hear this song for myself!

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Originally Posted by DK

I always dread Hip Hop threads on this forum because every time I look in it I'm afraid someone who is totally ignorant about the genre will have come in and said something dumb and make me cringe with embarrassment for them. I think post #3 is a record!

Anyway, Mainstream Rap and Hip Hop has been utter :skull::skull::skull::skull:e for longer than I can recall. But the non-mainstream stuff is thriving quite well, I think. At least most of the stuff I'm hearing these days is good :skull::skull::skull::skull:. It's none of these artists fault that the mainstream public are idiots. It just means you have to get out and look for good stuff yourself. Last year had one of the best Hip Hop albums come out for mine, was easily in my #5 of the year. In fact, if Windmills of the Soul was last year that would make two, but I can't remember.

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You don't make a valid argument as how are these people going to find these artists if they're not even heard of. Awards like the grammys and such are supposed to promote these good artists, but they aren't even there. The mainstream hasn't always been bad you've obviously never heard from artists like Mos Def, Nas, Kanye, Tupac, Biggie, and Public Enemy.

I'm pretty sure he actively listens to quite a few of those, actually.

You can claim that those are mainstream, but with the exception of Kanye, Tupac and Biggie, most average radio listeners probably haven't heard of those artists. On the other hand, most everyone knows 50 Cent, who is a walking travesty.

The internet is like, the greatest tool for finding music known to man. If someone is incapable of finding new music online then I don't think they'd be capable of much else at all. Also, your arguments aren't exactly valid when you list two people who've been dead for like 12 years, and a group that have not been influential for almost as long. Clearly you weren't reading what I said anyway because I didn't say the mainstream was never good, I said it hasn't been good for a while. Kanye's last album was decent but it was hardly hip hop, and as great as Nas is he can't cancel out years of 50 cent, Ludacris, etc bullshiets that have been permeating the mainstream of hiphop for the last decade or more.

Edit: Not to mention that Kanye is a great producer but an utterly mediocre MC, and Tupac was ridiculously overrated. Sure, he had some amazing tracks, but he has a fair amount of total drivel as well.

Lately? This has been happening since the late 90s and possibly even earlier. Like with most genres, some idiot always has to come in a ruin a good thing. Luckily there's still some great musicians out there, but you just have to dig a little deeper to find them. With that said, there are still good Hip Hoppers in mainstream (like Lupe for instance) though they're definitely the minority.

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Originally Posted by Ashley Schovitz

check it out here

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No. Just no.

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Originally Posted by Hsu

I'm pretty sure he actively listens to quite a few of those, actually.

You can claim that those are mainstream, but with the exception of Kanye, Tupac and Biggie, most average radio listeners probably haven't heard of those artists. On the other hand, most everyone knows 50 Cent, who is a walking travesty.

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Everyone knows who Biggie and Tupac are back when they were living their songs were played on the radio, all the time but there were pojts that Tupac stopped playing here on the East Coast because of the feud, but they were like the biggest MCs known. Oh to DK a lot of these people don't have internet access and even if you do you just can't type up rap artists you haven't heard of and instantly find good underground music.

Hsu got it down just about perfectly. Most people are musically retarded and have no problem listening to Soulja Boy's repeating choppy samples, awful snappy annoying beats, and repetitive shallow lyrics coupled with a sorry excuse of a "flow."

As for the rap scene today, there are a good amount of rappers nowadays still putting out some solid material. Left-Handed Scientists and Dälek come to mind immediately. The genre has declined though, you aren't seeing anyone putting out another The Low End Theory or Liquid Swords or anything but can you really expect anyone to do that?

Put your hands up

Shiny is a big fan of this group. She actually has a little crush on the white Ice Cube circa N.W.A wannabe!

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Originally Posted by DK

Put your hands up

Shiny is a big fan of this group. She actually has a little crush on the white Ice Cube circa N.W.A wannabe!

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Hey what. No I'm not! One of those guys is some hot shot actor now which just proves that actors should never be rappers and vice versa.

You are attracted to this man:

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t...mp_32/flav.jpg

You have a picture of him plastered on your bedroom wall.

And the other one is one of the most prolific Hip Hop producers ever now. Crazy. :monster:

Also, god damn right I do. I'd be on flav in an instant. YEAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH BOOOOOOOYYYY

Those Cypress Hill sound-a-likes are no match for the greatest rapper of all time...

http://static.flickr.com/42/107031291_c015acf0ee_o.jpg

Funny you should say that, 'cause B-Real was the one who discovered them and signed them to his label back in the day. They worked together and all sorts, in fact the Ice Cube wannabe has produced for Cypress Hill! That beat was a DJ Lethal beat, though. And I don't care how dire the two dudes are, the beat rocks. :cool:

Ludacris wasn't all that bad IMO, I forgot Lupe being out I like Superstar, but i haven't heard of anymore singles from him. I was going to mention Beastie Boys, but they don't even seem like Hip Hop and that mess is corny anyway with white rappers aside Eminem is good, but I found that his first two singles that came out were a bit cheesy. I wonder why there hasn't been a white girl rapper yet.

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Originally Posted by Ashley Schovitz

How?

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Because all hip hop and rap artists pretty much sound the same.

Anyways, rap hasn't been interesting since the mid-80's before it became obvious that formulaic trash sold by the bucket-load. To me it's kind of like the African-American equivalent of bubble-gum pop; popularist music designed to shift as many units as possible to the masses.

Ludacris was bad, but redeemed himself a bit when he teamed up with Mary J. B. His songs are usually really one-dimensional. All about Cadillac grills and telling bitches to move on highways. His videos are funny though. Anywayz, I see Hip Hop as more of a culture than a music genre. Rap itself is a genre, but I don't think Hip Hop is a genre although it includes Rap music.

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Originally Posted by Ashley Schovitz

I wonder why there hasn't been a white girl rapper yet.

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You just had to make me do it.

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Originally Posted by Captain Maxx Power

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Originally Posted by Ashley Schovitz

How?

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Because all hip hop and rap artists pretty much sound the same.

Anyways, rap hasn't been interesting since the mid-80's before it became obvious that formulaic trash sold by the bucket-load. To me it's kind of like the African-American equivalent of bubble-gum pop; popularist music designed to shift as many units as possible to the masses.

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Grossly ignorant statement #2. Not doing too badly so far, though. Usually on at least 5 by now!

Well forgive us for having ears.

Ears that hear what's forced into them by the mainstream and assume everything in a genre is dire. :monster:

*Ill-informed statement re: hip-hip's :skull::skull::skull::skull:tiness, specifically to piss Khumar off*

Yeah because not all artists sound the same you must only be listening to one type of artist.

If you have to dig around to find the good stuff, there's something very wrong.

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Originally Posted by Roto13

If you have to dig around to find the good stuff, there's something very wrong.

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I know you're not that stupid, so you've gotta just be trolling now. :(

This reminds of this one time.

Atleast Ashley acknowledges the fact that there are good rappers and doesn't inaccurately generalize.

Everyone knows that all Hip Hop is about bitches and hos without any exceptions.

Just like all homosexuals are flaming fairy queens like Graham Norton. :aimkiss:

(Yes I'm aware you probably don't know who he is but I don't know any canadian flamboyant homosexual men so it's going to have to do.)

I KNOW WHO HE IS! DON'T TALK DOWN TO ME! :mad2:

I wasn't aware he'd infected so far. I am deeply sorry that you have had to experience Norton. :(

My opinions of hip-hop and rap are congruent to that of 90% of this forum's opinion of screamo--I don't like rap or hip-hop. However, I listened to some of the songs Bert told me to listen to and I didn't hate them.

However, the mainstream rap (or mainstream ANYTHING for that matter) is an absolute assault on my ears. If I ever meet that Soulja Boy, I'm going to throttle him.

I don't know much about hip-hop, but I agree with Hsu on the music industry at large. You can take the initiative and find some stuff with substance, but it's still quite sad you have to search for it rather than hear it. But any song that isn't completely generic with lyrics you don't have to pay attention to (and laugh if you happen to) won't make it anymore.

And that's why I took a bat to my radio long ago :spin:

I can't think of any genre of any kind of media that doesn't require some digging around in order to find the good, original material that genre has to offer.

I also can't think of any genre of any kind of media that doesn't have some good, original material to be found, given you've dug around in it enough.

There has been some amazing hip-hop records in the last five years. I can't imagine where some of you guys get off calling an entire genre of music awful because you don't understand it. Get real.

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Originally Posted by DK

Ears that hear what's forced into them by the mainstream and assume everything in a genre is dire. :monster:

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The stuff I'm forced to listen to is stu's collection, and while better than what the kids back home and here blast at dances, it still isn't very listenable :p

(by better I mean it doesn't make me cringe to sit through)

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Originally Posted by Shiny

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Originally Posted by Ashley Schovitz

I wonder why there hasn't been a white girl rapper yet.

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You just had to make me do it.

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I hesitate to mention Lady Sovereign, because I think she's cute and has some genuinely well-done songs (9 to 5, Public Warning (she shows off her flow in this one pretty good), Hoodie), but I know a lot of people find her to be annoying.

One of the things I find most annoying about white rappers is when they try and pull off the self-aware ghetto act. Yeah, okay, you're white and trying to be ghetto and showing off how not-ghetto you are. It's an overplayed schtick.

That said, I like some stuff from the nerdcore scene. I say some, because anymore the scene is flooded with guys with beating-the-dead-horse-to-a-pulp beats ("hey here's an NES chiptune with a :skull::skull::skull::skull:ty beat AWESOME") and lyrics that're just trying to hard. mc chris started to distance himself from the community, and it makes sense - nerdcore has never been about throwing a million references in your face to prove your "cred," it's about your life, like any kind of rap.

That got kind of tangential, but I guess the point is that white guy rappers can be good when they take their art seriously, even if they don't take themselves seriously. Unfortunately they usually take everything to be part of the gag, which leads to a lot of stupid schtick-y youtube videos.

First of all, I will like to say this. Everybody seem to have their own opinions why Hip Hop or Rap is "Declining". Well, I'll be the first to say that Hip Hop and Rap is bigger than it ever has been. Now, before people began to write me back saying I'm insane, I grantee you that it is bigger. But, I'll also say that the has become with it has become for more wrong than right.

Secondly, for the people that does think Hip Hop and/or Rap is "Declining", the blame for your thoughts falls on the shoulders of many different sources. There's the Record Companies doing what they do best, which is make money even if it mean spreading hate and ignorance. There's the actually Artist who goes through with it all despite being robbed from their own literacy, and responsibility; not to mention the fact that most of them does those things willingly. And there's the listeners who gives these people reason to do what they do simply by turning on the radio and buying a CD.

Third of all, on a personal level, I've have already told lots of people here that I don't listen to the radio and I only listen to Hip Hop and Rap from the early 90s and other well selected songs from the 90s on up to now. But just because I don't listen to certain songs doesn't give them the right to not exist. And this doesn't just apply to me. So what if you and I don't like the music? It's pretty simple to turn the radio off.

Last, but not least, as many Rappers and Hip Hop artist has already said, Hip Hop and Rap are here forever. Just like Rock, R&B, or any other genre, music is FOREVER no matter how good or bad it is, words in melody cannot be destroyed.

But then again, it's just my opinion...:rolleyes2

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Originally Posted by Necronopticous

There has been some amazing hip-hop records in the last five years. I can't imagine where some of you guys get off calling an entire genre of music awful because you don't understand it. Get real.

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Or maybe those "amazing hip-hop records in the last five years" aren't really all that amazing. Don't assume that just because someone hates hip hop it's because they don't know any better. I've had enough people try to prove to me that rap and hip hop don't suck and they've failed miserably.

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Originally Posted by Roto13

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Originally Posted by Necronopticous

There has been some amazing hip-hop records in the last five years. I can't imagine where some of you guys get off calling an entire genre of music awful because you don't understand it. Get real.

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Or maybe those "amazing hip-hop records in the last five years" aren't really all that amazing. Don't assume that just because someone hates hip hop it's because they don't know any better. I've had enough people try to prove to me that rap and hip hop don't suck and they've failed miserably.

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If you've reacted like this to every such attempt, there's a reason they've failed miserably beyond the quality of the music.

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Originally Posted by Roto13

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Originally Posted by Necronopticous

There has been some amazing hip-hop records in the last five years. I can't imagine where some of you guys get off calling an entire genre of music awful because you don't understand it. Get real.

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Or maybe those "amazing hip-hop records in the last five years" aren't really all that amazing. Don't assume that just because someone hates hip hop it's because they don't know any better. I've had enough people try to prove to me that rap and hip hop don't suck and they've failed miserably.

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But we should assume that because you hate hip hop that all of our opinions are invalid and that we don't understand what kind of music we should like? :confused:

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Originally Posted by I'm my own MILF

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Originally Posted by Roto13

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Originally Posted by Necronopticous

There has been some amazing hip-hop records in the last five years. I can't imagine where some of you guys get off calling an entire genre of music awful because you don't understand it. Get real.

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Or maybe those "amazing hip-hop records in the last five years" aren't really all that amazing. Don't assume that just because someone hates hip hop it's because they don't know any better. I've had enough people try to prove to me that rap and hip hop don't suck and they've failed miserably.

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If you've reacted like this to every such attempt, there's a reason they've failed miserably beyond the quality of the music.

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Yeah, I hate rap/hip-hop, but the times that I really gave it a shot because someone told me to, I didn't HATE it, but I can't say I loved it. So-so. Mainly because it was substream and not the mainstream crap that is unfortunately so popular.

If you're going to assume that my opinions are invalid, there shouldn't be anything to stop me from doing the same.

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Originally Posted by Roto13

If you're going to assume that my opinions are invalid, there shouldn't be anything to stop me from doing the same.

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Except you're not stating things as opinions, you're trying to make them to be fact without any real argument to back them up.

Not liking rap is fine. When you come in and say that everything about it is awful and that the opinion of others are invalid because of what you think, that's where I think everyone who's fought you in this thread has a problem.

edit: Why am I arguing on the internet.

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Originally Posted by Hsu

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Originally Posted by Roto13

If you're going to assume that my opinions are invalid, there shouldn't be anything to stop me from doing the same.

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Except you're not stating things as opinions, you're trying to make them to be fact without any real argument to back them up.

Not liking rap is fine. When you come in and say that everything about it is awful and that the opinion of others are invalid because of what you think, that's where I think everyone who's fought you in this thread has a problem.

edit: Why am I arguing on the internet.

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http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png

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Originally Posted by Hsu

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Originally Posted by Roto13

If you're going to assume that my opinions are invalid, there shouldn't be anything to stop me from doing the same.

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Except you're not stating things as opinions, you're trying to make them to be fact without any real argument to back them up.

Not liking rap is fine. When you come in and say that everything about it is awful and that the opinion of others are invalid because of what you think, that's where I think everyone who's fought you in this thread has a problem.

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Maybe we should all turn and pick on DK, then, because of his assumption that I think the only hip hop music in the world is the :skull::skull::skull::skull: on top 40 radio.

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Originally Posted by Ashley Schovitz

Who else thinks that lately that Hip hop and rap has just gone downhill? I mean we aren't getting that many good or unique artists anymore. Seriously it wasn't this bad when I was young I feel sorry for these new group of teenagers listening to this garbage. Lil Mama and Soulja Boy need their contracts ripped. Come on, that Youtune song he made that made him famous is garbage it just repeats that horrible tune and he barely does any rapping and the rapping that he does is weak. have you heard of his newest video check it out here, the worst garbage ever. Nas was right this genre's dying.

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Mainstream hiphop has always been crap.
Check out Lupe Fiasco if you don't want to leave the mainstream, but want to hear a good rapper.

Immortal Technique, Tonedeff, MR. MEcca, etc

There are tons of underground artist out there that doesn't produce crap, and trust me underground hiphop is highly political in terms of the topics they cover in their music.

I don't listen to much in this scene, but Stu helped me fall in love with nerdcore. If you like hip hop and rap, y'all need to be listening to some nerdcore.

I just started hearing Lupe Fiasco and I likey.

A lot of what you hear on the radio is club music. I don't like it. I don't like it at the club either.

And I agree with everyone else. You have to look past all the bull:skull::skull::skull::skull: to find a gem.

There's really no genre I can think that is currently thriving creatively on the mainstream. Music is such a big business that big labels could care less about creativity, they just want to make money. Generally the public doesn't respond well to anything different than a simple "verse-chorus-verse" kind of musical form and the big companies are more that happy to give people what they want.

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Originally Posted by Roto13

If you're going to assume that my opinions are invalid, there shouldn't be anything to stop me from doing the same.

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Don't feel bad Roto. Everyone just seem to ignore my opinion. Therefor, I'm the weakest link...:rolleyes2

Everything ends.

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Originally Posted by Roto13

Maybe we should all turn and pick on DK, then, because of his assumption that I think the only hip hop music in the world is the :skull::skull::skull::skull: on top 40 radio.

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Not at all. The fact is anyone who comes steaming into a thread about a genre of anything saying "it's all :skull::skull::skull::skull:" is being a dumbass because there's clearly no way you've heard everything in the entire genre, so there's no way you can ever say it's dire with absolute certainty. Like Stu said, I don't care if you don't like hip hop or not. I'm not saying everyone has to like something in everything, 'cause that's retarded. But dismissing an entire genre as shiet, when you're apparently already biased against it anyway and coming in to threads made about said genre and acting like a condescending ass is just dumb.

IIRC your favourite band is the Red Hot Chili Peppers, and I personally find them to be a completely overrated and mediocre band, but I'm not going to come into every thread about them moaning about them. People find value in things, and dismissing that is just a bit :skull::skull::skull::skull:.

There are several good Rap/Hip Hop artists out there. Some examples are: Missy Elliott, M.I.A., Snoop Dogg, Beastie Boys, Ludacris, Nas, Jay-Z, Kanye West (and Lauryn Hill if she was still active) etc.

Hip Hop was just generally better in the e.g. 80s and 90s, but there are still some very good Hip Hop music and such that's released these days. Don't let the terrible-ness of "artists" like e.g. Soulja Boy, Black Eyed Peas, Will.i.am, Akon, 50 Cent etc. destroy you're love for Hip Hop.

Somebody needs to make a 'metal is bloody awful' thread, and watch in awe as the very fabric of space, time and the universe, is shaken.

Imho rap music currently is pretty poor all round, with the exception of a few artists (who unfortunately tend to have been around a long time and past their prime. I'm looking at you Common). Everybody I know who listens to rap, I've tried to introduce them into classic hip hop slowly, starting with Dr. Dre, then moving through Biggie and 2pac until we reach the awesomeness which is A Tribe Called Quest, and then we achieve lyrical nirvana, and an all round appreciation of rap music.

metal is also bloody awful

Metal is great and so is Hip Hop oh now what huh huh?

I used to listen hip hop on the second Eminem cds but still I just have two hip hop cds, one from Nelly I think it was his first one and two from Eminem. Those were the only ones I've heard so far! I don't think hip hop is the only music garbage! Now anyone can record a cd, you just have to be cool or good looking, or even if you're not they'll find a good song that teenagers will love. The problem is teenagers nowadays just care about be popular and listen the some songs everyone else do. It's actually "our" fault because we buy those cds or we check them on youtube.

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Originally Posted by DK

Metal is great and so is Hip Hop oh now what huh huh?

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time paradox

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Originally Posted by DK

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Originally Posted by Roto13

Maybe we should all turn and pick on DK, then, because of his assumption that I think the only hip hop music in the world is the :skull::skull::skull::skull: on top 40 radio.

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Not at all. The fact is anyone who comes steaming into a thread about a genre of anything saying "it's all :skull::skull::skull::skull:" is being a dumbass because there's clearly no way you've heard everything in the entire genre, so there's no way you can ever say it's dire with absolute certainty. Like Stu said, I don't care if you don't like hip hop or not. I'm not saying everyone has to like something in everything, 'cause that's retarded. But dismissing an entire genre as shiet, when you're apparently already biased against it anyway and coming in to threads made about said genre and acting like a condescending ass is just dumb.

IIRC your favourite band is the Red Hot Chili Peppers, and I personally find them to be a completely overrated and mediocre band, but I'm not going to come into every thread about them moaning about them. People find value in things, and dismissing that is just a bit :skull::skull::skull::skull:.

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You can be sure that if there was a Chili Peppers thread and the first thing you said was "The Chili Peppers suck" you can be damn sure the first post from me wouldn't be "Oh, Dan is just too ignorant to know that the Chili Peppers are awesome. He's obviously never heard any of their good music." Remember, your very first post in this thread was acting like a condescending ass.

I feel that mainstream hip hop has almost always been of the same quality; moreover, I think that there is a reason that it becomes popular and, eventually, mainstream. I do not have a strong opinion about the subject one way or another, but I do feel a need to become familiarized with certain songs for social interactivity — otherwise, I might look clueless when it comes down to it, and I don't like that —

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Originally Posted by Roto13

You can be sure that if there was a Chili Peppers thread and the first thing you said was "The Chili Peppers suck" you can be damn sure the first post from me wouldn't be "Oh, Dan is just too ignorant to know that the Chili Peppers are awesome. He's obviously never heard any of their good music." Remember, your very first post in this thread was acting like a condescending ass.

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I do not like it when I read a thread and people get snappy at each other. Make sure that you don't get too argumentative or else someone will have to close the thread, warn users, or delete posts and the entire topic of discussion will be thrown off because of you. I will strongly dislike that.

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Originally Posted by I'm my own MILF

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png

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xD

Wow, you people should listen to some T-Pain, his music is truly great. I wouldn't say Hip-Hop's declined, it seems to of done the opposite in the sense it's more popular and tolerated by people who are into different genres of music. Soulja Boy isn't that bad, perhaps his lyrics need tinkering with but the tune he produced was a major hit for one reason; the people loved it. If it was poor quality then nobody would want to listen to it, there's obviously an element within the song that attracts its fans. I recommended all those who assume rap is dead to go underground, because that were the real music is generated now, also listen to an artist called Shyne, and a group called Jedi Mind Tricks.

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Originally Posted by Polaris

I used to listen hip hop on the second Eminem cds but still I just have two hip hop cds, one from Nelly I think it was his first one and two from Eminem. Those were the only ones I've heard so far! I don't think hip hop is the only music garbage! Now anyone can record a cd, you just have to be cool or good looking, or even if you're not they'll find a good song that teenagers will love. The problem is teenagers nowadays just care about be popular and listen the some songs everyone else do. It's actually "our" fault because we buy those cds or we check them on youtube.

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Yeah, popular music these days is becoming more about the image than the actual music, whish is kinda wacky-dacky imo.

I agree that rap and hip hop isn't as good as it used to be, but I think because of that the genres are underrated.

A lot of people that don't listen to rap might think it's crap because of the stuff that's around today. I like to listen to a lot of rap and hip hop artists from the early 90's because it's really good.

But yeah rap and hip hop has declined but some old artists are still going, other than that, today's look on it is pretty poor.

Everyone needs to listen to Jin!

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Originally Posted by Old Manus

Somebody needs to make a 'metal is bloody awful' thread, and watch in awe as the very fabric of space, time and the universe, is shaken.....metal is also bloody awful

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As i generally avoid listening to hip hop i will refrain from comment on that beyond saying that like any genre the mainstream stuff is generally pretty dire, hip hop beyond that i have not heard enough to comment on.

As for metal though that has been bloody awful for a long time, every new metal band i hear sounds like a poor imitation of the good stuff that was around in the '80s.

The only new music i'm hearing that is innovative is some dance music (probably actually some sub-genre i dont know the name of) which i tend not to be too keen on and the hardcore scene in Nottingham (and probably elsewhere..

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Originally Posted by Hazzard

Wow, you people should listen to some T-Pain, his music is truly great. I wouldn't say Hip-Hop's declined, it seems to of done the opposite in the sense it's more popular and tolerated by people who are into different genres of music. Soulja Boy isn't that bad, perhaps his lyrics need tinkering with but the tune he produced was a major hit for one reason; the people loved it. If it was poor quality then nobody would want to listen to it, there's obviously an element within the song that attracts its fans. I recommended all those who assume rap is dead to go underground, because that were the real music is generated now, also listen to an artist called Shyne, and a group called Jedi Mind Tricks.

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I just think the South has the most influence over mainstream hiphop today, and in the South. It's all about what you can dance to in the club. So yea it gets very superficial, and crappy.

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Originally Posted by Necronopticous

There has been some amazing hip-hop records in the last five years. I can't imagine where some of you guys get off calling an entire genre of music awful because you don't understand it. Get real.

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It's called having an opinion. Everyone has one and everyone's entitled to one. Everyone's also entitled to refuse to give reasons when said opinions are expressed when it comes to asking validity on such statements, because wouldn't you know it they're opinions and don't require such.

In short I hate rap and hip hop. Deal.

But this isn't about whether hip hop sucks or not or if you like it. It's about the decline of creativity of Hip Hop :p

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Originally Posted by Ashley Schovitz

I wonder why there hasn't been a white girl rapper yet.

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Macromantics!

Pumping out sub par records is an easy way to make money. Waiting for the artist to come up with what might be a multi-platinum record is more risky. So I blame this either on the 'now' mentality or the 'steady profits > long term gain' mentality.

Either way, I haven't truly enjoyed hip hop or rap in years now. I do like listening to southern hip hop club anthems but that's because I like anything with deep bass and/or drums in them. So that's not saying much.

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Originally Posted by Bert

But this isn't about whether hip hop sucks or not or if you like it. It's about the decline of creativity of Hip Hop :p

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http://www.yada-yada.co.uk/lands/upl...oom-753530.jpg

I can't say creativity has declined as long as this guy is still making music.

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Originally Posted by El Bandito

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Originally Posted by Bert

But this isn't about whether hip hop sucks or not or if you like it. It's about the decline of creativity of Hip Hop :p

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http://www.yada-yada.co.uk/lands/upl...oom-753530.jpg

I can't say creativity has declined as long as this guy is still making music.

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Seconded.

I'm not a huge hiphop fan, but there's always good stuff out there if you just look beneath the surface of what is most commercially successful. Madvillain (indeed, anything MF Doom puts his hand to) and Dizeee Rascal are two examples of good rap/hip hop from either side of the Atlantic (even if Dizzee hasn't ever really captured the magic of his debut album since it came out).

I've been listening to a lot of underground UK rap and hip hop lately. It's quite good!

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Originally Posted by El Bandito

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Originally Posted by Bert

But this isn't about whether hip hop sucks or not or if you like it. It's about the decline of creativity of Hip Hop :p

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http://www.yada-yada.co.uk/lands/upl...oom-753530.jpg

I can't say creativity has declined as long as this guy is still making music.

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I didn't say there's no creativity there's just more nonsense than creative stuff out there.

Hiphop has officially died when that song called My Dougie came out.

Immortal Technique has a good song and Cypress Hill has some good songs, but it is my opinion that mainstream hip-hop does not deserve any respect. Every now and then I'll hear a good song on the radio but then I'll have to wait another half hour to listen to another good one.
Hip-hop is in no way declining in the money it makes, it'll just never make me a fan in the course it's taking.
But then again for those that are fans of the genre they have the internet if they want to listen to more than just the songs on the radio.

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Originally Posted by Bert

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Originally Posted by El Bandito

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Originally Posted by Bert

But this isn't about whether hip hop sucks or not or if you like it. It's about the decline of creativity of Hip Hop :p

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http://www.yada-yada.co.uk/lands/upl...oom-753530.jpg

I can't say creativity has declined as long as this guy is still making music.

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I didn't say there's no creativity there's just more nonsense than creative stuff out there.

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But that's true of all musical genres, and you could say the same for all films. There's always probably going to be more mediocre/crap stuff out there than anything truly great or innovative.

Oh Man y'all had to make me go there. I agree that the media mainstream of hip hop is dying in creativity. I'm tired of people at my school mostly the freshman and sophmores that praise dumb artists like Soulja Boy. That dude is talentless if he deserves a record deal then i do because I have more talent in my pinky than that guy. If I ever meet him I'll throw off his stupid shades stomp on them and then punch him in the eye. I love this genre of music and hate none, but I just hate what these new generation of children are stuck with today. I believe what influences them most is because the industry's biggest targets are these teenagers and with these people are just naturally going to get attatched to what they're being brought up with by their own people and what their peers do. I try to influence my cousins not to fall in the bandwagon, but they don't listen to me. Most of these people don't even listen to the lyrics they sjust hear the tune and the refrain.

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Originally Posted by Necronopticous

I can't think of any genre of any kind of media that doesn't require some digging around in order to find the good, original material that genre has to offer.

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I can I believe R&B's mainstream has always been well rounded with good creative artists it's just that with R&B there are not as many of those songs produced as one might think considring that you know what R&B stands for there has to be some blues involve Keyshia Cole's I remember is an example from last year.

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Originally Posted by breine

There are several good Rap/Hip Hop artists out there. Some examples are: Missy Elliott, M.I.A., Snoop Dogg, Beastie Boys, Ludacris, Nas, Jay-Z, Kanye West (and Lauryn Hill if she was still active) etc.

Hip Hop was just generally better in the e.g. 80s and 90s, but there are still some very good Hip Hop music and such that's released these days. Don't let the terrible-ness of "artists" like e.g. Soulja Boy, Black Eyed Peas, Will.i.am, Akon, 50 Cent etc. destroy you're love for Hip Hop.

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No you can't be serious Missy Elliot's lyrics don't even make sense and Akon isn't a rapper he's a singer. The beastie Boys seem corny IMO

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Wow, you people should listen to some T-Pain, his music is truly great.

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T-Pain isn't even a rapper.

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Originally Posted by Ashley Schovitz

I wonder why there hasn't been a white girl rapper yet.

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There has http://http://blogs.salon.com/0001381/images/sarai.jpg
I think she was actually good, but she didn't do too well.

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Originally Posted by TyphoontheReapa

First of all, I will like to say this. Everybody seem to have their own opinions why Hip Hop or Rap is "Declining". Well, I'll be the first to say that Hip Hop and Rap is bigger than it ever has been. Now, before people began to write me back saying I'm insane, I grantee you that it is bigger. But, I'll also say that the has become with it has become for more wrong than right.

Secondly, for the people that does think Hip Hop and/or Rap is "Declining", the blame for your thoughts falls on the shoulders of many different sources. There's the Record Companies doing what they do best, which is make money even if it mean spreading hate and ignorance. There's the actually Artist who goes through with it all despite being robbed from their own literacy, and responsibility; not to mention the fact that most of them does those things willingly. And there's the listeners who gives these people reason to do what they do simply by turning on the radio and buying a CD.

Third of all, on a personal level, I've have already told lots of people here that I don't listen to the radio and I only listen to Hip Hop and Rap from the early 90s and other well selected songs from the 90s on up to now. But just because I don't listen to certain songs doesn't give them the right to not exist. And this doesn't just apply to me. So what if you and I don't like the music? It's pretty simple to turn the radio off.

Last, but not least, as many Rappers and Hip Hop artist has already said, Hip Hop and Rap are here forever. Just like Rock, R&B, or any other genre, music is FOREVER no matter how good or bad it is, words in melody cannot be destroyed.

But then again, it's just my opinion...

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I agree with your argument that this genre and culture is going to stay for a while, but I disagree and I too mostly listen to just R&B, and Soul stations or old rap from the 80's and 90's., but as you can see mainstream hip hop's creativity has fallen. I wish I could meet Soulja Boy and Lil Mamam in real life and kill them on stage in the public in a freestyle battle, I embarass both of them so badly especially Soulja Boy. smurfing Superman dance and Yahhh. Who also makes songs on lipgloss and nursery rhymes!?

Y'all see what you made me do? post the longest post in this thread.

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Originally Posted by Depression Moon

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Originally Posted by breine

There are several good Rap/Hip Hop artists out there. Some examples are: Missy Elliott, M.I.A., Snoop Dogg, Beastie Boys, Ludacris, Nas, Jay-Z, Kanye West (and Lauryn Hill if she was still active) etc.

Hip Hop was just generally better in the e.g. 80s and 90s, but there are still some very good Hip Hop music and such that's released these days. Don't let the terrible-ness of "artists" like e.g. Soulja Boy, Black Eyed Peas, Will.i.am, Akon, 50 Cent etc. destroy you're love for Hip Hop.

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No you can't be serious Missy Elliot's lyrics don't even make sense and Akon isn't a rapper he's a singer. The beastie Boys seem corny IMO.

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What doesn't make sense to you? - and while Akon may not be a rapper he does make "Hip Hop" music.

I'm fully aware T-Pain's not a rapper, where did I state he was? He produces songs which are sectioned under the Hip Hop category, that's why I mentioned him. Btw, a good rapper would probably be Snoop Dogg, he's slipped of lately with his current tunes but I still admire him for the lyrics he writes, their quite creative and interesting.

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Originally Posted by Depression Moon

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Originally Posted by TyphoontheReapa

First of all, I will like to say this. Everybody seem to have their own opinions why Hip Hop or Rap is "Declining". Well, I'll be the first to say that Hip Hop and Rap is bigger than it ever has been. Now, before people began to write me back saying I'm insane, I grantee you that it is bigger. But, I'll also say that the has become with it has become for more wrong than right.

Secondly, for the people that does think Hip Hop and/or Rap is "Declining", the blame for your thoughts falls on the shoulders of many different sources. There's the Record Companies doing what they do best, which is make money even if it mean spreading hate and ignorance. There's the actually Artist who goes through with it all despite being robbed from their own literacy, and responsibility; not to mention the fact that most of them does those things willingly. And there's the listeners who gives these people reason to do what they do simply by turning on the radio and buying a CD.

Third of all, on a personal level, I've have already told lots of people here that I don't listen to the radio and I only listen to Hip Hop and Rap from the early 90s and other well selected songs from the 90s on up to now. But just because I don't listen to certain songs doesn't give them the right to not exist. And this doesn't just apply to me. So what if you and I don't like the music? It's pretty simple to turn the radio off.

Last, but not least, as many Rappers and Hip Hop artist has already said, Hip Hop and Rap are here forever. Just like Rock, R&B, or any other genre, music is FOREVER no matter how good or bad it is, words in melody cannot be destroyed.

But then again, it's just my opinion...

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I agree with your argument that this genre and culture is going to stay for a while, but I disagree and I too mostly listen to just R&B, and Soul stations or old rap from the 80's and 90's., but as you can see mainstream hip hop's creativity has fallen. I wish I could meet Soulja Boy and Lil Mamam in real life and kill them on stage in the public in a freestyle battle, I embarass both of them so badly especially Soulja Boy. smurfing Superman dance and Yahhh. Who also makes songs on lipgloss and nursery rhymes!?

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Agreed, creativity has declined in today's Hip Hop/Rap. If I had the abilities to drop a CD, I believe I can bring something new to the scene. But, unfortunately, I'm in no such position. But I won't be for long. It's only a matter of time before I get my chance. But we all know that it takes more than one person or a hand full of people to make a genre of music good.

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Originally Posted by Hazzard

I'm fully aware T-Pain's not a rapper, where did I state he was? He produces songs which are sectioned under the Hip Hop category, that's why I mentioned him. Btw, a good rapper would probably be Snoop Dogg, he's slipped of lately with his current tunes but I still admire him for the lyrics he writes, their quite creative and interesting.

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T-Pain sucks Hazzard...

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Originally Posted by nozkits

I just think the South has the most influence over mainstream hiphop today, and in the South. It's all about what you can dance to in the club. So yea it gets very superficial, and crappy.

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Nah, not really. Back in the 1990s it was all about the East and the West. And in the 2000s it's all about the East and South. But, I can agree with the dance thing. A lot of rap songs are about *insert new dumb made up dance here* now.

I hate most Hip hop I've heard. Though there are some good ones here and there.

One of my favorites is actually Biggie. :P

Personally, I think -all- the genres are going down hill.

For some reason it seems that originality has been lost in a mass amount of the genres. Not only in rap but in pop-esque songs too.

Granted there are trends and people who set and follow those trends, but when they are signed and able to make music, it -does- affect the music world.

Take all those new british laid-back female pop singers for example. While we may assume that's a trend now, who's to say that in another year the british laid-back female pop singer won't become the most "in thing", Much like Britney Spears and Christina Agulera were in the bubble-gum pop time in the 90's.

Now with that said, I can say that the only rap I've been able to tollerate are one's that I feel have a true real meaning to them. For some reason that ended up being horrorcore rap or gangster (not saying gangsta) rap.

I believe in this day and age that the over the top wanna-be rapper with a label is the equivilant to the british laid-back female pop singer. Some 17 year old sees the guy who sucks at rapping and thinks to himself, "you know I might not be the best rapper, but neither is he! It's like the standard was lowered!" thus he spends a year and a half becoming noticed and then ends up getting signed and we have -more- of the not so great rap.


Again, I think -all- genre's are in this horrid trend only phase and until someone can just like bust in and be awesome at everything the "trendy" musicians can't, then nothing will change.

If anything, raps at a neutral trying to experiment with things. Granted this will may bring like 70 more bad rappers but eventually someone will weed them out.

Hey! Must be the money! :shifty:

I don't listen to much mainstream at all anymore, mostly for the reasons many people have mentioned. I'd say the only rap I'd listen to nowadays would be Jurassic 5, Ozomatli, & Blackalicious. It's disapointing I guess, but I guess it was inevidable a music genre so controversial & popular was going to gain much media attention. Ever since the late 90's Hip-Hop has been a circus. Why can't we have the likes of House of Pain back! :(

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Originally Posted by DK

Not to mention that Kanye is a great producer but an utterly mediocre MC, and Tupac was ridiculously overrated. Sure, he had some amazing tracks, but he has a fair amount of total drivel as well.

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Kanye West is greatly overrated. I believe Hip-Hop is crying out for a role model and Kanye seems to fit the bill because he passes as 'likeable', and thats why I believe he sells so many records. I didn't pay attention towards Kanye until I heard an interview from him about a year ago, and he goes on as if he's god-like. It's so annoying. His abilities are limited. He sounds :skull::skull::skull::skull:, the guy can't really rap either, and some of his lyrics sound just silly.

Saying Tupac is overrated is a shame. Tupac is the greatest rapper without question IMO. Today's generation reflect on Tupacs more recent work released by Amaru under the influence of Shady/Aftermath's producion and OH MY GOD does it sound horrible. They string together a Tupac lyric and a 50 Cent beat and the result is just depressing. They don't mix, simple as. If people have listened to 2Pac's released work before 1998 and still hold the opinion that he's overrated, thats fine, but I think its disapointing that some people pass judgement on him when they don't really know his career-high work. The differances between Strictly For My N****Z & Loyal to the Game for example, are enormous.

Yeah Kanye is a mediocre rapper, but he's a great producer. Him, Just Blaze, RZA, and Danger Mouse are the best mainstream producers today.

As for Tupac, I respect him, but I've always thought Biggie and Nas were better rappers. And that's just limiting it to rappers of his generation.

I'll echo 90% of the responses in the thread and say that mainstream is crap. I'm a fan of Kanye though, I thought his newest CD was brilliant. The songs that really got me hooked were the ones that didn't become singles though (Good Morning and Big Brother in particular).

I'm also (like 90% of the other posters here) a huge fan of the underground scene. Talib Kweli and The Cool Kids are both near the top of my list. I mean, Black Mags by The Cool Kids has to be one of the most intoxicating songs of the past few years for me.

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Originally Posted by Roto13

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Originally Posted by DK

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Originally Posted by Roto13

Maybe we should all turn and pick on DK, then, because of his assumption that I think the only hip hop music in the world is the :skull::skull::skull::skull: on top 40 radio.

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Not at all. The fact is anyone who comes steaming into a thread about a genre of anything saying "it's all :skull::skull::skull::skull:" is being a dumbass because there's clearly no way you've heard everything in the entire genre, so there's no way you can ever say it's dire with absolute certainty. Like Stu said, I don't care if you don't like hip hop or not. I'm not saying everyone has to like something in everything, 'cause that's retarded. But dismissing an entire genre as shiet, when you're apparently already biased against it anyway and coming in to threads made about said genre and acting like a condescending ass is just dumb.

IIRC your favourite band is the Red Hot Chili Peppers, and I personally find them to be a completely overrated and mediocre band, but I'm not going to come into every thread about them moaning about them. People find value in things, and dismissing that is just a bit :skull::skull::skull::skull:.

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You can be sure that if there was a Chili Peppers thread and the first thing you said was "The Chili Peppers suck" you can be damn sure the first post from me wouldn't be "Oh, Dan is just too ignorant to know that the Chili Peppers are awesome. He's obviously never heard any of their good music." Remember, your very first post in this thread was acting like a condescending ass.

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Suuuuure.

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Originally Posted by Roto13

"Unique hip hop artist" is kind of an oxymoron.

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Originally Posted by I Took the Red Pill

I mean, Black Mags by The Cool Kids has to be one of the most intoxicating songs of the past few years for me.

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God yes. I listen to the entirety of "Totally Flossed Out" almost every day. Can't wait 'til their first LP.

I think that this is the best couple of years for hip-hop, have you turned on MTV on sucker free countdown. i'm listening to some of the best right know.

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Originally Posted by DK

I wasn't aware he'd infected so far. I am deeply sorry that you have had to experience Norton. :(

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He had a show here in the US. Was actually a hilarious show.

People need to stop listening to the junk that MTV tells them to.

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Originally Posted by jbuckhana

I think that this is the best couple of years for hip-hop, have you turned on MTV on sucker free countdown. i'm listening to some of the best right know.

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If you think the stuff on MTV is good, the underground will blow your mind.

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Originally Posted by El Bandito

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Originally Posted by jbuckhana

I think that this is the best couple of years for hip-hop, have you turned on MTV on sucker free countdown. i'm listening to some of the best right know.

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If you think the stuff on MTV is good, the underground will blow your mind.

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I dont even know what the underground is.

Underground rap is the emcees who aren't commercial, their rappers who spit their lyrics on the streets and are most likely the "realist" rappers in the game. You should listen to them more often, I'm sure you'll find them much different to the mainstream rappers like 50 Cent, because they don't talk about; money, hoes, cars and all that other materialistic, derogatory crap. Instead they express their selves by preaching about their life stories - how they were raised in the hood, or their views on certain issues in the world, could be politics or religion.

Trust me, it's much better than this fake crap you usually hear. Also, I believe Eminem's probably THE best rapper at present alongside Nas. That's it really.

Eminem was indeed the best rapper around imho, but recently he's pretty poor. Smack that ooohoohooo

Just for the record, Em's coming back with a new album this year called "King Mathers" it's highly anticipated because he has overcame some of those earlier personal problems that forced him out of the industry, his breaks over and he's ready to smash it yet again! I aint never seen an *** like that...