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What we can go on:
-In their first fight, the FF8 intro, they were about even.
-in their second fight at the end of Disc 1, Squall alone manages to defeat Seifer.
-Squall and two other party members take on and beat Seifer 2 more times. (game mechanics aside, You do confront Seifer with 3 people so storywise, I say it was 3 on 1)
-Seifer owned Odin in one shot.
So, who was stronger?
They're equally strong.
First: Even
Second: Squall is much better
Third: Even
Fourth: Even
Fifth: Seifer
seifer killing odin was bloody stupid
a badass norse god jus running into a sword? the feck?
anyone actauly know the reason for this happening and what it was supposed to mean story wise?
Well it means:
A) It meant Seifer was faster and stronger than Odin. It was an in-gameplay scene so the graphics weren't great but I don't think Odin just "ran into a sword". i think it was supposed to be he was running at Seifer to do his usual move and Seifer just got the first strike.
B) We get Gilgamesh as a replacement who is stronger than Odin.
That's all I can think of.
as much as i do love gigamesh the ff8 version of odin is the most badass character ever
any other odin wouldnt be as good as gilgamesh but 8's does rule
Story wise I think Squall has a slight edge over Seifer.
I think they're probably evenly matched; they're supposed to be polar opposites afterall.
Opening - Seifer
Delling - Squall (Unless you lost)
Galbadia - About even it's 3 on 1 so we cant really tell
Galbadia with Edea - Well Seifer's weakened. So i guess technically Squall is better
Lunatic Pandora - 3 on 1 again.
So its really hard to tell who's better, but chances are they wouldnt make a game where the rival is stronger than the main character despite how much cooler the rival is ,that barely ever happens. Theyre usually tied
Well, I don't want to bring too much game mechanics into this but since getting Odin is entreily dependent on gameplay, I think it should a tleast be considered:
Odin's Zantetsuken is insta-death for the party and results in Game Over. This obviously wasn't the case for Seifer.
I'll give it to seifer that he was even with Squall at the start BUT after squall became a SeeD he became better skillful with his gunblade and easily defeated Seifer one on one. Further, even though Seifer is taken on by 3 of your party members, it is very and easily possible to defeat Seifer by just using squall. He can heal himself and depending on his strength, he can kill Seifer in 7-10 hits or 1 or 2 renzokukens.
This also applies to their third battle. On limit breaks, Seifers are only single hit, AND, even when seifer is in your party, squall is still able to do more damage with his Renzokuken. AMEN
Lets solve this once and for all...
Taken from Final Fantasy VIII / 8 / FF8 - Characters
Squall
LV/ HP/ Str/ Vit/ Mag/ Spr/ Spd/ Luck
1/ 223/ 1/ 1/ 2/ 1/ 20/ 15
10/ 616/ 8/ 8/ 8/ 7/ 22/ 16
20/ 1044/ 15/ 14/ 15/ 13/ 24/ 16
30/ 1464/ 21/ 16/ 21/ 18/ 25/ 17
40/ 1877/ 27/ 24/ 27/ 22/ 27/ 18
50/ 2281/ 32/ 28/ 31/ 26/ 29/ 19
60/ 2678/ 36/ 32/ 35/ 29/ 30/ 19
70/ 3067/ 40/ 35/ 39/ 32/ 32/ 20
80/ 3449/ 43/ 37/ 42/ 33/ 34/ 21
90/ 3822/ 46/ 39/ 44/ 35/ 35/ 21
100/ 4187/ 47/ 41/ 45/ 36/ 37/ 22
Seifer
LV/ HP/ Str/ Vit/ Mag/ Spr/ Spd/ Luck
1/ 275/ 3/ 2/ 2/ 5/ 15/ 12
10/ 812/ 10/ 8/ 9/ 10/ 18/ 13
20/ 1400/ 17/ 14/ 15/ 16/ 21/ 13
30/ 1800/ 23/ 19/ 21/ 20/ 24/ 14
40/ 2553/ 29/ 24/ 26/ 25/ 27/ 15
50/ 3117/ 34/ 28/ 30/ 28/ 30/ 16
60/ 3674/ 38/ 32/ 34/ 32/ 33/ 16
70/ 4223/ 41/ 34/ 38/ 34/ 36/ 17
80/ 4765/ 44/ 37/ 41/ 36/ 39/ 18
90/ 5298/ 46/ 38/ 43/ 37/ 42/ 18
100/ 5823/ 48/ 39/ 45/ 38/ 45/ 19
From level 100 only...
Seifer wins: HP, Str, Spr, Spd
Squall wins: Vit, Luck
Ties: Mag
Seifer is stronger while in the party.
I think they're pretty evenly matched.
And if you don't like Odin being killed by Seifer, why not just get him in disc four instead??
because i didnt know it was gonna happen til it did
cant see into the future
unfortunatly
the one on the left.
I think that Squall and Seifer are equal in strength. From a gameplay perspective, Seifer is much stronger than Squall.
After completing the game multiple times, I infer that both characters' strengths have attained an equilibrium. I have reached the conclusion that Squall and Seifer are equally feeble in comparison to the mold that all heroes of modern folklore attempt to fit. The aforementioned mold is none other than that of Carlos "Chuck" Norris. With a simple stroke of his fiery red beard and a moderatly fierce gaze, Sir Norris would simultaneously implode Squall's and Seifer's heads, fill their respiratory systems with sulfur and francium, and force their ascending, transverse, descending and sigmoid colons to spontaneously combust. Then the deity Norris would exhale slightly, yawn, quaintly smirk, wink his left eye, then think to himself, "Hmph, kids." He would then scoop up the fleshy mound of remains and grind them up by placing it between his hands and rubbing them together like Mr. Miyagi does when he fixes Daniel Larusso's leg in The Karate Kid. He then places the ample pile of bone, muscle and entrails on a radiator he tore out of a Peterbilt and roasts it over a fire he built using only water (I didn't believe it either until I witnessed it myself). The result was the first Burger King restaurant. Have it your way? I think not! Have it the Norris way.
I think Seifer is stronger. He was just a strong as Squall in fights usually, and he had the handicap of being hot headed and not being able to think clearly.
Imagine how Seifer would fight with a level head and some discipline!
Squall.
I think the game (and indeed all FF's) needs more duels between hero and villain
well i think seifer was stronger at the start, but then squall got alot more stronger as the story unfolded.
I agree with that, i also think Squall and Seifer are a lot like Luke Skywalker and Anakin Skywalker, Seifer is more aggressive and strong! But Squall has as much quality and he controls it better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Katsuna
Just to point out, the only legitimate win Squall has over Seifer one-on-one, in the boss fight at the end of Disk 1, Seifer was out-of-practice.
http://www.snapdrive.net/files/532407/Seifer.png
Well, based on his Odin pwning I'd say Seifer!
I mean, Squall was all like WTF. He obviously didn't think it was remotely possible for Odin to be defeated, so he probably couldn't have done it himself. Seifer could and did.
well seifer still lost, and ofcourse squall wld b like "Wtf" any1 wld if someone just stops a summon.
As far as in-party stats go, Seifer has the edge.
Head-to-head, it varies, though Squall won most of the in-game battles, whether by himself, or with assistance (only one time did an in-game battle between the two end up being indecisive, and that was the battle in the opening sequence).
But looking at it from a much deeper perspective, advantage Squall. I may be stating the obvious with regards to the game's storyline, but I'm doing so to put into perspective as to why Squall is ultimately stronger than Seifer. This is taking into account several factors, including not only head-to-head battles, but other factors as well (that possibly resulted in the outcome of those head-to-head battles), such as discipline, maturity, leadership skills, mental state, and the like.
Seifer has been known to be a showboater. He always sought glory, and eventually, it became his downfall. He was in charge of Balamb Garden's Disciplinary Committee, and it is no coincidence that the other two members of that committee were the only two friends he had; Fujin and Raijin. Now, the purpose of the Disciplinary Committee is to enforce the rules of Garden, but various actions by Seifer in his role as head of the Disciplinary Committee basically tell me that he just flaunts himself with his authority as if he owns the damn Garden, and as if he answers to no one at all, an attitude that will repeat itself in the Field Exam and carry grave consequences. He was named the leader of his squad during the field exam, but his pride enabled him to ignore direct orders to secure the Town Square in Dollet, simply in the name of wanting to be the big hero, and in fact abandoned his own squad. As a result, he failed the Field Exam (thus, failing to become a full-fledged SeeD), while the remainder of his squad (Squall included) passed with flying colors and made SeeD (Zell even passed, despite his own fiery nature). All the pride Seifer had in himself was shattered in an instant, and it did not take long for resentment and envy to creep in, as Seifer escaped from Garden's disciplinary room (a great irony, as he was the head of the Disciplinary Committee) and go vigilante on the very mission his Field Exam squad was sent to. His own mental weakness allowed him to be seduced by the evil influence of the Ultimecia-possessed Edea, and even believed himself to be a Sorceress Knight (in reality, he was more of a Sorceress' enforcer than a Knight, as he had no clue what the true purpose of a Sorceress Knight was). He even went as far as sacrificing his own ex-girlfriend by attempting to Junction her to the reawakened Sorceress Adel (though he was under the influence of Ultimecia, which was made possible due to his weakened mental state). As for his friends, Fujin and Raijin? Well, they eventually left Garden to follow him after Seifer sided with the Ultimecia-possessed Edea, but as soon as they were defeated in Balamb by Squall and Zell, they began to question whether or not Seifer was himself. They stayed by his side for the time-being, but right before the final battle between Squall and Seifer, Fujin and Raijin finally came to terms with the fact that Seifer is no longer the close friend they once knew, and severed ties with him.
In stark contrast, Squall was as antisocial as they came, and his stoic nature was a problem even for Quistis, who at one point knew him better than anyone else at Garden (though that can be attributed to the fact that she had a crush on him). He didn't give a flying smurf about glory or anything of the like. And while Seifer basically flaunted himself as Squad Leader during the Field Mission, Squall's decision-making (despite being under unlawful orders) enabled him to pass the Field Exam with ease. And while Seifer loved being a leader simply to flaunt himself, Squall had no desire at all to be a leader. In fact, Squall was basically forced into a leadership role. And although the first couple of SeeD missions under Squall's leadership resulted in failure, his role in quelling the Norg/Cid power struggle and saving Balamb Garden from the Galbadian missile attack ultimately showed his immediate crew, and ultimately all of Balamb Garden, why he was forced into a leadership role to begin with; he was the one person his acquaintances could count on the most to pull through for them when they were in tough situations. In essence, he was a natural-born leader, whether he liked it or not, a fact that Squall would eventually come to terms with. Headmaster Cid saw this, and placed the entire Garden in Squall's hands. Squall's abilities as a leader were ultimately put to the test in the Battle of the Gardens, as well as Seifer's. While it seemed that Seifer initially had the upper hand, Squall's resolve enabled him to repel the Galbadian assault, and eventually lead his own SeeDs into Galbadia Garden, and eventually took it upon himself to defeat Seifer and put an end to Ultimecia's control over the Matron that once took care of him and his friends during his childhood. However, breaking Ultimecia's control over his one-time Matron came with a price; Squall would nearly lose something dear to him, and the saddest part about that is, he never knew how dear to him it was until it happened. That something dear to him was Rinoa. It was her falling into a coma that made Squall realize that not only did Rinoa successfully manage to slowly but surely crack and shatter his cold exterior (a feat even Quistis failed to accomplish) since they met (despite initial friction between the two), but it made him realize that perhaps he did need someone in his life after all. It also made him realize that the one person he fell in love with was right under his nose, and was completely oblivious to the fact that he fell in love to begin with until he almost lost her. Someone such as Seifer would've just snapped and gone completely insane in that situation, but not someone like Squall. His resolve to get her back out of this state never waivered, but would find out that it was now her that was possessed by Ultimecia, and when Ultimecia left Rinoa to die after she used her to release Adel, Squall still managed to save Rinoa from certain death in space. Squall would learn that the love that was right under his nose but did not realize until her coma was now a Sorceress, and given the tainted history of Sorceresses (possibly tainted solely because of Adel's dictatorship), any ordinary man would have left in fear...not Squall. Unlike Seifer, Squall would learn the true purpose of the Sorceress Knight, and thus vowed to be as such, and I quote, "even if she ends up as the world's enemy". To this end, he has three times rescued Rinoa since she became a Sorceress, once in the aforementioned outer space incident, once from Esthar's Sorceress Memorial (despite Squall surrendering Rinoa to Esthar authorities on the grounds that it was her own decision), and finally from Adel's clutches after Seifer and Ultimecia's attempted junction stunt (though the first two happened before Squall's vow to be her Knight was made in the game's script).
In summary, it is clear that Squall is the stronger of the two. Squall's leadership has been more efficient than Seifer's throughout the course of the game. Squall's initial antisocial attitude and apathy for personal accolades has ultimately made him more mature, more focused, more disciplined, and has strengthened his resolve (which was eventually strengthened even further when Rinoa entered his life), while Seifer's arrogance, pride, and lack of focus & discipline has led him down a destructive path that ultimately became his undoing.
One ironic twist in all of this is the fact that Squall did not want to be a hero, but ended up being one anyway, while Seifer enjoyed the very idea of being a hero and the pride that came with it, but hit rock bottom in the end.
Another ironic twist in all of this is that the once stoic and antisocial Squall earned the respect of his closest acquaintances and accepted them as friends, earned the respect of the entire student body, faculty, and staff of Balamb Garden, and had finally made room in his once-sealed heart for a special someone in his life in the form of Rinoa (despite initial resistance on Squall's part), while the showboating Seifer's closest friends for a long time eventually severed ties with him, but the ending does show Seifer fishing with his friends that had earlier severed ties with him, which probably indicates that he had returned to his old self after the whole Ultimecia ordeal and whatnot; this probably tells me that Seifer realized what had happened to him and had finally come to terms with the fact that he simply wasn't cut out to be the big hero that he always dreamed of being.
Even at the start then Squall just over took him. I still think Seifer was a strong character throughout the game but Squall was always one step ahead physically and mentally.
Having just played through the Dollet scenario, I've found Seifer to be the more powerful of the two whilst at the level and without any magic junctions. However, Squall does have a better limit break, I believe.
One thing people tend to forget in that "Squall grew stronger mentally than Seifer did" was that Squall had the luxury of improving emotionally.
Seifer? He was mentally manipulated and abused from near the start of the game to pretty much the end of the game. Not only that, he has to constantly fight and get beaten by the woman he used to love... I don't see anyone's mental state improving under these circumstances.
You can argue it was Seifer's own fault but the same could easily have happened to Squall. Ultimecia-Edea played on Seifer's emotional weakness and had she wanted to, she could have easily done the same to Squall. Instead of vanity and pride and dreams, she could use his fear of commitment, his self-imposed detachment from human contact and used that.
Squall and Seifer both started the game with massive holes in their egos. Squall just got lucky enough to fill it in while Seifer did not.
Basically the way I see it
they start the game even, but then they develop differently throughout the game. Because of the way they developed, Squall ends up better than Seifer in tactics, strategy, and leadership. Seifer ends up stronger in pure strength. The simple fact is, if they switched places, and experienced what the other did, they'd be reversed.
Take two dogs, treat one nice all the time, and train it. Versus taking the other one and beating it all the time. One will be a people person, and "think" more and have more talents. The other will be brutal and strong. That's basically how these two were.
THE JACKEL
That is a very apt analogy. I agree 100%.Quote:
Originally Posted by ljkkjlcm9
You all seem to be forgetting that once Seifer started working for Edea/Ultemacia that he stops using the GFs. The GFs allow SeeD to fight the Sorceress' on equal terms and the game goes out of its way to show the Sorceress' are forces to be reckoned with. Its why he gets weaker as the game progresses cause he's normal while Squall and company get stronger GFs. Yes on an emotional level and psychological level I would agree Squall is stronger,but Seifer continues to fight GF powered humans and GFs all by his lonesome. Granted he never wins but the fact he survived and somewhat held his own shows his strength.
Just my thoughts though...
That's true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
The way I see it is this, we dont know how well seifer is equipped via his GFs. From a gameplay perspective, we dont know what hes junctioned with, or GF abilities equipped. Theres 2 ways to see the confrontations with Seifer:
Seifer is equally geared as Squall in terms of magic and GFs. This is how you actually see it in the game (or at least, I guess supposed to see it), and in this way Squall typically whoops Seifer with no trouble. Like someone said, even in the 3v1 fights, if you have spent time gearing up with Squall, Seifer 1v1 still wouldnt beat Squall. In this situation, you could assume that once Squall becomes a SeeD, his power grows faster than Seifers.
However, if you look at it from a non-gameplay perspective, Seifer is probably stronger in terms of 1v1 fighting. Squall beats Seifer in Delving, yep, but I personally think that after that point, Seifer becomes stronger than Squall. It takes a group of 3 to defeat Odin, and Seifer does it in 1 blow. If thats not enough, every time after Delving you encounter Seifer, you fight him as a full group. GFs and Junctions aside, if Squall was stronger than Seifer he would probably opt to whoop his butt personally, without dragging the others into it. By the time disk 3 rolls around, Squall would no longer be able to stand up to Seifer 1 on 1, and he must rely on his friends. Which is actually the way the story is supposed to work. The whole strength in numbers routine. Individually, Squall might be weaker than Seifer, but by Disk 3 he trusts his allies to watch his back, and you could argue that because of his friends, Squall is a stronger person
Anyways, just a rant. In terms of personal power, Seifer wins in the end imo. But storyline wise, most would prefer being surrounded by trustworthy allies who fight for you no matter what, which is where Squalls strength lies
He doesn't own GF, remember disc 1 then you had a change to play with him?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilthanes
What a stupid question.
Squall needed his friends to beat Summon(s). Seifer killed one in a single strike.
Squall needed the help of the party(again) to fight Seifer. But Seifer was alone(at least in the last battle at Lunatic Pandora).
Unless Squall got stronger after killing the monsters in Ultimecia's Castle, the answer to this question is obvious.
If he doesnt have a GF then how can he use magic? And how are we able to draw spells from him if he has no junctioned magic?Quote:
Originally Posted by unfinished fantasyHe doesn't own GF, remember disc 1 then you had a change to play with him?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilthanes
Not that simple. *hint* - Squall's limit breaks.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Crystal
How can monsters and bosses without GF use magic? This game doesn't make sense. So don't try to apply logic @ Seifer alone.Quote:
Originally Posted by blackmage_nuke
Exactly. Even with his Limit Breaks he needed help to fight Seifer.Quote:
Originally Posted by unfinished fantasy
I guess it just means that Seifer's using the same kind of magic as the Galbadian Army. Para-magic that requires GFs is just one way of allowing regular humans to cast spells; there are clearly other system in use around the world. Monsters and sorceresses can cast spells with their own inherent power, and some humans can cast under certain circumstances (Blue Magic and Slot limit breaks). But there are also artificial means of getting the same result; GFs are just one of those.Quote:
Originally Posted by unfinished fantasyHow can monsters and bosses without GF use magic? This game doesn't make sense. So don't try to apply logic @ Seifer alone.Quote:
Originally Posted by blackmage_nuke
I always had a thing about Seifer and that's because he fought dirty. {what the hell am i saying?}
So if Squall and Seifer fight in a dirty way, Squall will probably win. If Squall's like he was in the intro then Seifer will kick his ass.
Seifer beat Odin yes, but to get Odin didn't you beat him? Lolcopter.
I believe we are thinking in opposite directions on this oneQuote:
Originally Posted by The CrystalExactly. Even with his Limit Breaks he needed help to fight Seifer.Quote:
Originally Posted by unfinished fantasy
He's obviously a sorceress.Quote:
Originally Posted by blackmage_nukeIf he doesnt have a GF then how can he use magic? And how are we able to draw spells from him if he has no junctioned magic?Quote:
Originally Posted by unfinished fantasyHe doesn't own GF, remember disc 1 then you had a change to play with him?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilthanes
Who Was Stronger: Seifer or Squall? Neither.
Laguna was strongest! If you say his name right it sounds like a French way of saying 'The Goon'... 'Le Goona' Lol, and what about that 7"6 guy!? He must have been stronger, that blokes muscles are insane!