No faith

Why is square even bothering to do another action game? They have yet to make a good one and the team making FFXIII VS is the same team from Kingdom Hearts 2(another mediocre action/rpg from square). FFVII: Vincent's Quest for Greatness, is just another example of a bad action game. I like that they took a chance with these other games but I just don't have enough faith that they will be able to put out a good action game with the same teams that failed to deliver good action elements in their previous attempts.

I am not expecting a Ninja Gaiden, Devil May Cry or God of War out of them but I am expecting something that is good this time around.

Do you think they can pull it off and why...because I have no faith in them(this goes back further than the attempts I named as well).

We'll just have to see. We know so little about the game that postulating just what kind of title it will eventually be is pointless. Personally I honestly believe it can't be any worse than the shoddy piece of chod that is FF12.

:o This game could only hope to to catch the greatness that exudes from FFXII!

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Originally Posted by Captain Maxx Power

We'll just have to see. We know so little about the game that postulating just what kind of title it will eventually be is pointless. Personally I honestly believe it can't be any worse than the shoddy piece of chod that is FF12.

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:eek: How could you..!?



I really dont know about Versus. The premise seems to be impressive. Nice and dark. I just hope its not a cliched story and that the action isnt full of unskilled button mashing.

Considering we haven't even seen trailers featuring gameplay, I can't say... Considering the team working on it, I doubt we will get DMC/NG calibur control and gameplay. The KH team with Nomura directing tells me it will most likely play like a mature KH game. You will visually be able to pull off fantastical accomplisments by hitting one button... Great for noobs who lack dedication and want to look impressive, bad for people who actually care about challenge...

I've been told the games premise is based on the Epic of Gilgamesh and considering its one of my favorite stories of all time, I'm intrigued by this notion. Overall, its way too early to say anything on the matter.

^Epic of Gilgamesh? Havn't heard that one before...

And Ive been following this all pretty closely.


I thought it had some connections with the Cold War, and ideas in that.

I'm hearing some good things!

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Originally Posted by Vivisteiner

^Epic of Gilgamesh? Havn't heard that one before...

And Ive been following this all pretty closely.


I thought it had some connections with the Cold War, and ideas in that.

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Just a rumor I've heard but in hindsight, the source is pretty unreliable IMO but I can still hope... Of anything, I'm looking for reliable confirmation either way.

I personally have little reason to have no faith in Versus. I'm not overly impressed with the newest acclaimed incarnations of the current action genre (HS, DMC, NG), I enjoy all of the games, but I don't consider them to be overly innovative or high above the bar. For that reason, it wouldn't take much for me to be satisfied with FFVersus. Square is known for making great stories, and intense interactive experiences, and that's what'll count the most.

Then again, we really have no clear indicator what it actually means that Versus will be an "action" oriented RPG. Crisis Core seems to fall under that vague category, and that's gotten a great reception.

I think more than anything, the Final Fantasy brand, the main series, has always signified high quality games. Each release has always been acclaimed by both the fans and critics. FFXII is an exception, but that results more from it being in a completely different category of RPG than the series had been up to then, or up to XI, but it was a still a high quality product. So I have no reason to be cynical about versus, we'll just have to wait and see. All we really have is 2 trailers, a couple screenshots, and some vague statements.

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

Then again, we really have no clear indicator what it actually means that Versus will be an "action" oriented RPG. Crisis Core seems to fall under that vague category, and that's gotten a great reception.

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Nomura has been quoted to say it will feature a battle system similar to the Kingdom Hearts games. Though he has hinted to a few interesting gameplay innovations... My problem with KH's system is that its "style over substance". You can pull off incredibly impressive feats by tapping a single button. In a more traditional action game, it requires some level of skill to do the same. There is also a huge difficulty issue in KH compared to more traditional action games. I don't doubt that Versus will be visually impressive in execution but I do feel that it will not be as rewarding.

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I think more than anything, the Final Fantasy brand, the main series, has always signified high quality games. Each release has always been acclaimed by both the fans and critics. FFXII is an exception, but that results more from it being in a completely different category of RPG than the series had been up to then, or up to XI, but it was a still a high quality product. So I have no reason to be cynical about versus, we'll just have to wait and see. All we really have is 2 trailers, a couple screenshots, and some vague statements.

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The main series has always tried to be of the highest quality but I do feel that SE has dropped the ball in the PS2 era. X-XII have all recieved rather mix reviews, both within the professional circle and the fanbase itself. I also feel the games were horribly mismanaged. I agree with many critics on SE's buisness policy that the series has a serious lack of direction and the company is borderlining on mismanaging the franchise. Its already started to happen but how far it goes will depend on the fanbase.

Granted SE is a buisness and the point is to make as much money as possible. My problem stems from the fact that SE is realizing that slapping the FF moniker on a game automatically means it can move a few hundred thousand units with little effort. The quality of these titles is questionable but mostly good... for now... Perhaps its the pessimist in me but I've seen it happen too many times not to take notice but I worry SE is going to to tarnish the reputation the franchise once had as being known for high quality.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

Nomura has been quoted to say it will feature a battle system similar to the Kingdom Hearts games. Though he has hinted to a few interesting gameplay innovations... My problem with KH's system is that its "style over substance". You can pull off incredibly impressive feats by tapping a single button. In a more traditional action game, it requires some level of skill to do the same. There is also a huge difficulty issue in KH compared to more traditional action games. I don't doubt that Versus will be visually impressive in execution but I do feel that it will not be as rewarding.

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well, that would fall under the "vague statements" category.

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The main series has always tried to be of the highest quality but I do feel that SE has dropped the ball in the PS2 era. X-XII have all recieved rather mix reviews, both within the professional circle and the fanbase itself. I also feel the games were horribly mismanaged.

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I'm not sure where you got that from. X-XII all consistently received favorable reviews from the critics, XII is the only one I've witnessed noticeable fan dissent, largely due to it not being what they expected; XI seems to be well regarded among those that actually played the game, and I have yet to see anyone outside of an internet forum have anything negative to say about X.

Well...since the gameplay of KH2 was quite good, and this is supposed to be a more "adult version" of the KH gameplay with TELEPORTATION and multiple weapon use, I'd say this game will be extremely fun.

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

XII is the only one I've witnessed noticeable fan dissent, largely due to it not being what they expected.

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I don't dislike it because it's not what I expected, I dislike it because it is filled with poor design choices.

Anyway, I have enough faith in them to hold of judgement on the XII series until it's released.

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

The main series has always tried to be of the highest quality but I do feel that SE has dropped the ball in the PS2 era. X-XII have all recieved rather mix reviews, both within the professional circle and the fanbase itself. I also feel the games were horribly mismanaged.

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I'm not sure where you got that from. X-XII all consistently received favorable reviews from the critics, XII is the only one I've witnessed noticeable fan dissent, largely due to it not being what they expected; XI seems to be well regarded among those that actually played the game, and I have yet to see anyone outside of an internet forum have anything negative to say about X.

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I can't talk for the internet reviews but many of the magazine ones for FFX were less than stellar for a Final Fantasy game. I'm not saying X got terrible reviews but for an FF title which is traditionally known for 9 or 10 or 4 1/2 to 5 star reviews I saw it get some 8 and other low scores (Edge Magazine gave it a controversial 6/10). I would also say (though this is my personal opinion) that X laid the groundwork for a terrible trend in RPGs.

XI's problem falls more into the fan backlash about making an FF MMO out of a numbered part of the series. Even then it has some terrible interface issues. Not to mention Sony making some bad decisions of dropping online play. Of course I personally feel the only real problem with XI (it is a good game though I despise PlayOnline) is that for many fans of the series don't count it and thus to much of the fanbase, there is a massive dry spell for a FF title which was filled with ports and sequels until the next true installment.

I like XII but as you said its gotten an odd backlash. Critics adore it but the fanbase seems to either be indifferent or outright hate it (and in my personal opinion for the most stupid and asinine reasons:mad:). Part of this is traditional hazing, the other part is that it changed everything so much. It also recieved heavy pressure due to XI not working out like it was originally planned and thus the game was trying to be rushed and placed under heavy scrutiny for taking so damn long to complete. I do feel a few years down the road the fan base will be more appreciative of this game. Especially since quotes I hear from the XIII team tells me its going to be more like X than I care for...

I just find that all three games were marketed and released poorly. X came out too close after IX so it can act as system seller for the PS2, XI has the fan debate about being an MMO which makes many people not count it, and XII took so damn long to come out that SE took drastic measures... These were all bad buisness decisions, and due to an odd marketing ploy of only building PR for FF,KH, and DQ they dropped the ball on revitalizing a few franchises (Except for Mana). It just seems to me that SE is falling dangerously close to relying too heavily on brandname recognition. I see hope with Last Remnant and and the new wave of DS original titles but I still feel that SE doesn't have any real direction for its franchises.

But to tie this back into the topic at hand. There seems to be some massive confusion about Versus and Agito. I feel most of the fans will only regard these two as side games rather than stand-alone. Part of it is probably due to the two games being made with systems very different from what the main series is known for. Versus will be an action game, and Agito is rumored to use a card game system. SE is known to put massive quality into the main games but confusion remains on the other two projects. Personally, I do feel Versus will be of high quality and chances are, it will be my favorite. Interviews with the XIII director has made my feelings for the game even more doubtful. Whereas interview with Nomura on Versus makes me realize he's got the right idea of what an FF should be.

(I never thought a day would come when I would say something truly positive about Tetsuya Nomura)

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

(I never thought a day would come when I would say something truly positive about Tetsuya Nomura)

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haha, i'm surprised too. But still, back the topic at hand like you said, I don't think anything we've seen or heard so far is a good measure of the potential that these games have. At all. When we get more into the battle system, hear a little more about the plots (which both aspects for XIII seem to be good) then we can allow the optimism/pessimism to overflow the dam.

The only article I've read that slightly changed my opinion of the project is one in Edge magazine from a year ago. When asked whether the the technology of the next generation console should be used to expand more gameplay mechanics or just visual and audio upgrades; the director of XIII (Motomu Toriyama) said that the visuals are so realistic now that the player should be able to draw more on the characters. Its a fair assessment but its not a path I feel they should do.

Interestingly enough, the article had an interview with Tetsuya Nomura and when asked the same question, he said the new generation should be used to create better game design and mechanics and not just be visual updates. He illustrates by saying that for Versus XIII he's trying to implement a way to have seamless enviroments. He suggests having a battle waging inside and outside a building and the transition being seamless or the abilty to do something in the building that could effect the outside. To me, Nomura has the right idea and it feels more like traditional concepts that made the FF series stand out (Innovation)

Granted, we don't know enough about either game to see how their thoughts on the matter has materialized but XIII sounds more like cosmetic change like IX and X were rather than something innovative like VIII and XII were.

I have faith that Final Fantasy XIII and Final Fantasy XIII Versus will be popular titles.

I think that the company and its development teams pay special attention to certain titles in the series, and, unfortunately, the rest are not given that same degree of attention; for example, Dirge of Cerberus was not made with the top level development team on it, and its concept called for a less popular genre and gameplay style.