Did you find MGS3 a bit too light-hearted and comical?

I guess the title's misleading: I meant to say "light-hearted and comical when it wasn't intended to be?"

So the other day I asked one of my friends: "Is MGS3 actually series canon or was it just a light-hearted parody intended to entertain and amuse the fans while they waited for resolution of MGS2's plot?"

He said it was indeed series canon, but having heard me ask the question and throw up the alternate viewpoint, his tone seemed to lean towards the other notion as well. In other words, he seemed to think both.

I can honestly say I didn't like the game personally, but the top-ranking things that really made me think the game was silly would have been The Boss' villain costume (I believe it was some kinda new sneaking suit, but I will always refer to it as a "villain costume" because that's how I saw it as it made her look like a Marvel/DC Comics villain) as well as her horse, the absurd supernatural bosses that made you wonder what Mr. Kojima was smoking, the James Bond style intro (actually most of the Bond movies are very light-hearted, which in turn leads me to believe that the case was meant to be the same with this game) and the scene where you climb this insanely high ladder to an acapella of the theme song (I tried dropping off from the top to see if it would play backwards real fast, instead I got to see Snake fall away from the camera... no watching him crunch on the floor? Meanie pants...)

There were a number of other things that made me find the game a bit silly (being able to break both your arms and fix them by pressing start, the Raiden-related injokes) but they were the main ones. They reminded me of when I was in my early-mid teens, wanted to make an RPG Maker game and had a load of ideas that I would now, frankly, find stupid. I'm not a huge fan of the Metal Gear series in general, but MGS1 and 2 had been a lot of fun for me so as I say, this game felt like total farce the entire time I was playing it.

Anyone else happen to think that Kojima was somewhat taking the Michael with MGS3?

Not really. All of the Metal Gear Solid games have their little jokes. Ever call Rose or the Colonel (I forget which one triggers the scene) while standing under that soldier's urine stream in MGS 2?

MGS3 isn't the first game to have crazy supernatural bosses. Fortune could swerve bullets out of her way with luck. Vamp is basically immortal. Psycho Mantis could read people's minds. Vulcan Raven could control birds.

As for The Boss with her costume, it's not any more crazy than Solid Snake's sneaking suit.

Besides, the ending was heart wrenching. MGS3 SpoilersSnake kills the woman who is basically his mother figure and finds out that it was all a conspiracy and she hadn't really done anything to deserve it. She was a hero who would be remembered as a traitor forever. Nothing crazy and goofy about that.

EDIT: If you're sincerely unsure about whether or not MGS3 is canon, it is. MGS4 spoilers that have been revealed in previewsEva is in MGS4 and I'm pretty sure they discuss what happened to the philosopher's legacy.

It didn't seem all that light-hearted to me. o_O

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Originally Posted by Roto13

All of the Metal Gear Solid games have their little jokes.

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Indeed, they're all a little bit quirky and cheesy in their own way. What I'm getting at is that I found MGS3's cheese to be a much deeper shade of orange. I'm ever so sorry to say that I laughed far more times than I was supposed to.

Mei Ling sticking her tongue out. Meryl in her underwear. Psycho Mantis reading your memory card. Otacon wetting himself. The rat eating the PAL key. The baby wolf peeing on the cardboard box. "We're not paying you to be a scarecrow, ya know!". The Tuxedo unlock.

Vulcan Raven figure. Otacon's Mei-Ling impressions on the tanker, as well as the real thing showing up. A hold full of guards in their boxers. Raiden being urinated on. Girly posters. Guards ogling porn on the computers. Emma wetting herself. Looking up the female hostage's skirt and her pressing her legs together. Raiden's modesty being protected by a drinking straw, and a guard being impressed by the size of it. Books, and going into a toilet cubicle with said item. I need scissors...

My main complaint with the game was that nothing really happened in terms of the story at large, apart from learning a bit more about the Patriots

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Originally Posted by Psychotic

Mei Ling sticking her tongue out. Meryl in her underwear. Psycho Mantis reading your memory card. Otacon wetting himself. The rat eating the PAL key. The baby wolf peeing on the cardboard box. "We're not paying you to be a scarecrow, ya know!". The Tuxedo unlock.

Vulcan Raven figure. Otacon's Mei-Ling impressions on the tanker, as well as the real thing showing up. A hold full of guards in their boxers. Raiden being urinated on. Girly posters. Guards ogling porn on the computers. Emma wetting herself. Looking up the female hostage's skirt and her pressing her legs together. Raiden's modesty being protected by a drinking straw, and a guard being impressed by the size of it. Books, and going into a toilet cubicle with said item. I need scissors...

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Most of that stuff was intended to be funny. Most of what I've picked at with MGS3 was ostensibly intended to be serious.

I guess Kojima needed to re-read this: Uncyclopedia:How To Be Funny And Not Just Stupid - Uncyclopedia, the content-free encyclopedia

Reading this thread actually made me remember everything I loved about MGS3. And now I'm playing it again xD

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the absurd supernatural bosses that made you wonder what Mr. Kojima was smoking

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Psycho Mantis and Vamp anyone?

This is one of those rare occasions where I completely agree with both Roto and Psychotic. Everything they said, and then some.

All the games are loaded with supernatural villains and occurrences; the only real difference in MGS3 is that it felt like they'd run out of ideas a little, where the bosses were concerned. In MGS1, every FOXHOUND member had a profound story or background that tied directly into events in the game; but the Cobras and Volgin felt like they belonged in a low-grade comic book. A bee man... who is covered in bees! etc.

Snake Eater's story, especially the way it affects The Boss and Big Boss, is actually quite tragic and revelatory. Damn grim stuff.

The end of MGS3 leaves me depressed. xD I wouldn't consider that ligt hearted or comical.

Wow. I...don't see how anyone could even begin to find it "light hearted" or suspect it of not being canon. o__O

YouTube - Volgin's Revenge

Lighthearted indeed.

I feel that the series has always had some mix of serious drama and light comical fun and I don't feel MGS3 was more either way. Of anything I think your sense of humor is just different from the design team's (nothing wrong with that btw ;)).

The arm breaking thing is quite absurd but remember we are playing a game so some liberties have to be taken. I actually liked the ladder scene and only found it comical when it was later satired by VG Cats and other fans of the series but during the actual game I found it no different from musical interlude's used to create tension or other feelings. I didn't find the bosses any weirder than previous installments. Of anything I was happy to face a colorful cast of villains instead of the lame ones' in MGS2. Besides, have you ever seen the villains from the MG series for MSX? Running Man? Shotgun Joe? Arnold(actually made to be a rip off of the T-800 of Terminator fame)? The series has a long history of goofs and TV movie rip-offs. Its what makes it so damn endearing. :)

The series is canon as it basically tells the story of the origin of Big Boss and his reasoning for creating Outer Heaven and betraying his country; as well as the origin of the Patriots as you mentioned. Considering how pivitol of a character Big Boss is to the series I highly doubt it could ever be considered non-canon cause its theme song is a James Bond-spoof and the bosses blow up when they die. ;) To this day, only Snake's Revenge, Ghost Babel, the Ac!d series, and the radio drama's are considered non-canon in the MGS timeline.

Brawl is canon, btw. They're totally going to have flashbacks of Snake getting Volt Tackled in 4.

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Originally Posted by Roto13

Brawl is canon, btw. They're totally going to have flashbacks of Snake getting Volt Tackled in 4.

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Totally, don't forget Snake's steamy romance with Samus Aran and Falco :love:

Compared to MGS2 I wouldnt say MGS3 is nearly as light hearted or comical. And those characteristics arent a bad thing anyway, MGS2 is my favourite in the series.

Like others have said before, these little absurdities are a staple of the series, and its occasional goofiness is one of the things that sets it apart from the majority of other action/adventure titles. I guess you could argue that Snake Eater was a little more quirky than its predecessors, particularly as a lot of the oddities appeared in the main storyline rather than as bonus or hidden scenes. But I'd say that's in part a nod to the setting. Sixties TV shows and movies were full of eccentricity, even outright weirdness. James Bond, The Avengers, The Prisoner...it's easy to see how story elements like The Pain or Major Raikov fit in. And of course, none of this stops the central storyline being incredibly poignant. There's no doubt that it's canon, especially since it introduces a couple of plot elements that have made the wait for MGS4 even more unbearable.

Anyway, I can see why you might not care for some aspects of the game, but those same aspects are things that a lot of us appreciate. Somehow I can't see MGS4 having quite as much of an irreverent side, so maybe you'll be more satisfied with that.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

The arm breaking thing is quite absurd

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I felt that kind of thing was actually among the more realistic and serious stuff in MGS3. Getting a fractured elbow like that, and having to treat it on the scene, was a real character-building moment for Big Boss, as far as the audience is concerned. Especially when he's back in business after only two weeks of recuperation.

I think Kojima must smoke a lot to make any of this stuff.

MGS2 wasn't exactly "normal"
And frankly, I couldn't follow the story at all for the last few hours of the game.

LOVED IT THOUGH!
And I loved 3 too.

Anyone ever played Snatcher?
Its an awesome Kojima title.

MGS2 is actually probably the most "supernatural" of the games.
It's entire purpose was to be a mindscrew with "what is reality?" subtext that became clearer as the game progressed.
You don't have to look any farther than the ending phonecall in MGS2.
"They're already dead."
"When did it happen?"
"Well about a hundred years ago...."

WTF moment there for me.

Though we know those 12 men weren't actually The Patriots now but back then I was totally lost.

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Originally Posted by Big D

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

The arm breaking thing is quite absurd

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I felt that kind of thing was actually among the more realistic and serious stuff in MGS3. Getting a fractured elbow like that, and having to treat it on the scene, was a real character-building moment for Big Boss, as far as the audience is concerned. Especially when he's back in business after only two weeks of recuperation.

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I think the complaint there is that he can treat himself at all when both of his arms are out of commission.

Not the most valid complaint, though. Before everything else, Metal Gear Solid is a video game. Snake recovers his stamina in less than a second by eating, and he seems to be able to eat as much as much food as he can find. That stuff is forgivable because it's a gameplay mechanic and not a plot device.

Roto beat me to explaining the arm breaking point. Sorry I didn't explain fully I was commenting on Reload's take on it not the basics of the game. Personally, I loved the self medication and I'm quite sad it seems to be removed in MGS4. Despite a few logical errors (six gunshot wounds to the head!!!) I found it added a great level of realism to the game.

I also agree with Cz, having grown up on 60s Cold War spy shows, it was a real treat going through this game. In fact, I felt the historical setting added a level of greater tension and drama to the background of the story.

I do wish the bosses had more backstory than just they're guys fighting alongside The Boss. Take The Fear. I don't know anything about that guy, or what motivated him to fight. Their freaky abilities I can accept, that's just what makes them cool. But I would've liked to have known more about them.

Yeah, they definitely could have used more backstory. The Sorrow was really the only one with anything resembling a motive there.

I agree, outside of the The End and the Sorrow, I didn't feel many of them had decent back stories either, its quite different from MGS2 where they had decent backgrounds but their battles were rather underwhelming.