Magibon gave me an idea: there should be a thread here for learning and practicing Japanese (this thread)! I'll start.
きのう私はポテトをゆめみました！みんなさんは？ :kauberry:
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Magibon gave me an idea: there should be a thread here for learning and practicing Japanese (this thread)! I'll start.
きのう私はポテトをゆめみました！みんなさんは？ :kauberry:
You used kanji, no one knows kanji!
Looking at all that hiragana makes me want to pick up my studying again.
I can't read that yet. I'm just starting to learn to read Hiragana and katakana. Any advice will be appreciated.
わたしわねこずきです?
Watashi wa hiragana o [word for type?]masen. :(
It should be: わたしはねこがすきです.Quote:
Originally Posted by rubah
The particle "wa" is written with hiragana "ha". Also, since you are using polite speech, you are missing your particle "ga" after "neko".
I passed my first level, now going into second level this fall, w00t! I need to practise though. I do not know most of the 180 kanji I am supposed to know -__-;
As to the question at the beginning.
きのうのゆめはおぼえられませんでした。
EDIT: Wrong verb. x-x; I think I should of used "思い出せませんでした" instead.
I did two semesters of Japanese, but unfortunately I'm ending my studies. Even though I find the language fascinating, pursuing it any further would be just too much stress on me. Hopefully I'll be able to study abroad there next summer, though.
Don't feel like pulling up the character map to do any practicing, maybe later :)
I only know hiragana and some katakana. What's a good way to learn kanji? ;-;
you say these things to me as though it wasn't just a phrase I typed into an IME!
The わ/は is a common mistake when typing. I am not a mind reader. T_TQuote:
Originally Posted by rubah
Memorization, sadly. :/Quote:
Originally Posted by Momiji
I studied alone for a bit. Then I shelved the idea; I'm planning to major it in college. Didn't want to have to break bad habits.
私は馬鹿です （・-\）
普通の夢は恐いでして、だから、思い出しない。
日本語は面白いですね。四年から勉強しまして、確かに充分に勉強しない。
ろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼ ろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼろぼ。。。
ぴぴるぴるぴるぴぴるぴ
ぴぴるぴるぴるぴぴるぴ
something something club to death angel~
[edit- plz don't kick me out of this thread ;.; ]
皆さん日本語が上手ですね！私はハーフなので、子供のころから日本語をしゃべっています。だがやはり日本語を読むことと書くこと… まだ苦手です！英語のほうが絶対簡単です！日本のニューズを時々見ますが漢字ばか りで意味がわかりません～ 「何でこんなに漢字があるんだ？いらないよ！意味がわからないよ！（泣き）」。
通じましたか？
じゃあ以上、
ムヒョ。
------------
Ah... kanji... so... annoying... TT_TT.
ね、みんあーさん。。。すきです。
Does that look right/correct? I'm not sure. Either way, IMEs are fun to use. ^^
By the way, qwertyxsora, I learned hiragana and katakana from Yasuko Kosako Mitamura's book "Let's Learn Hiragana" and "Let's Learn Katakana", respectfully. I learned both of them and had them pretty much a week a piece. I'd say it's easier to learn one type at a time. I started with hiragana, and then katakana. If you're interested, I'd suggest checking those out.
Thanks, I'll look those up. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Momiji
Hiragana and Katakana are easy to learn. I've learned them through websites on the internet. Kanji are a whole different matter though. I'm currently learning Chinese Hanzi characters which Kanji are based on.
はじめまして。私はドイツ人です。
Is that correct? I haven't looked at any Japanese in months.
Yes, that looks correct to me.
クレリアンはナチですか？ =O
かなはしりますだけど、かんじはしりません。ひつじゅんはおぼえにくい。こくぶんぼうも。
チョコレートミルクがほしい～。
Also, if you attempt to read Japanese kana, you'll be forced to look up the symbols, and that will help you memorize them (try to read Japanese manga, blogs, and/or websites often).Quote:
Originally Posted by qwertyxsora
かなはしりますだけど、かんじはしりません。
"Kana wa shirimasu dakedo, kanji wa shirimasen."
I got that much out of it, what does 'shirimasu dakedo' and 'shirimasen' mean? :p
"I know kana, but I don't know kanji." :jinx:
Oh, I see. I guess it would help if I bothered to expand my vocabulary along with knowing kana, huh?
As for kanji, all I know is 東方、for obvious reasons.
I have a small vocabulary, too, but reading other members' posts and looking up their words help a lot! =O
I wish I could get the definition and translation of Japanese when I highlight the words or something. That would be so convenient. I could learn and pick up on them so much easier that way.
My friend just sent me this addon for firefox, a furigana injector. :p
あーすごいです！
That's so cool! Now if only I had my dictionary with me...
No more kanji-induced headaches for Monda (now I can read Muhyo's post).Quote:
Originally Posted by qwertyxsora
I'm just worried that I'm going to start relying on this furigana thing instead of learning the kanji. xD
Someone should create weekly or semiweekly quizzes over kana and, eventually, kanji.
Let's transform this thread into a classroom. :onnanoko:
ねー、ラモンダさん、教えてよ～ :p
Kana Quiz
http://www.dragonmedia.us/programs/kana.swf
It's pretty excellent. You can choose particular gyo or entire groups, hiragana or katakana (or both) and all kinds of stuff. Pretty useful once you think you've learned the kana, particularly useful for learning those tricky few that look incredibly similar.
Hey, thanks! ^^Quote:
Originally Posted by JKTrix
Admittedly, while I know all hiragana without a problem, a lot of katakana mess me up because some look so similar. :p
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momiji
I thought to express knowledge that you have, you are supposed to use the "ている" form of 知る: in this case it would express a resultant state. 知る on its own such as in "shirimasu" means more "come to know"/"get information about something" than "to know", or at least that is how my sensei explained it to the class. So to express something we know she told us to use "知っている" (知っています) and "知らない" (知りません) as the negative.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshall banana
Katakana suck. It still messes with me. x-x; I need to practise them more as well.
I was wondering that! Thanks! =OQuote:
Originally Posted by The Summoner of Leviathan
So in the end, it's either:Quote:
Originally Posted by The Summoner of LeviathanQuote:
Originally Posted by Momiji
I thought to express knowledge that you have, you are supposed to use the "ている" form of 知る: in this case it would express a resultant state. 知る on its own such as in "shirimasu" means more "come to know"/"get information about something" than "to know", or at least that is how my sensei explained it to the class. So to express something we know she told us to use "知っている" (知っています) and "知らない" (知りません) as the negative.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshall banana
Katakana suck. It still messes with me. x-x; I need to practise them more as well.
「カナは知って（い）ますが、漢字は知りません」
「カナは知って（い）ますけど、漢字は知りません」
「カナは知って（い）ます、だけど漢字は知りません」
Ah, I get it, kind of. It's 'chirimasen', not 'shirimasen' then, right?
(Also, how do you type the quote open/close things?)
Nah, nah it's 「shi tte(i)masu」.
（When in japanese mode, press on the "[" and "]" buttons :D)
Ah, I see. But if it's 'shitte(i)masu', why did you use 「知」 instead of 「視」?
Isn't 「知」 the kanji for ち, and 「視」 the kanji for し?
Just wondering, because I'm relatively new and kanji's so confusing!
「視」 Has an on reading of "shi" but the kanji means "to inspect"Quote:
Originally Posted by Momiji
「知」 Has an on reading of "chi" but for this verb we use the kun reading of "shi".
To refresh you. Kanji have two readings (actually there is a third but let's not go there). There is the onyomi reading which is often used when the kanji is used in compounds and such which are approximations to their Chinese sound. Then there is the kunyomi readings, the readings used when the character is used on its own or in a verb. An example is the character 「水」 which is the character for water. All alone it is read as "mizu"; that is to say we use the kun reading. But in 「水曜日」 (read: suiyoubi; meaning: day of water, Wednesday) the kanji 「水」 is read as "sui". "Sui" is its on reading. This is why kanji are a pain in the ass. Moreover, if you want to write Japanese, you have to learn the proper stroke order. Though it is important to know the stroke order if you ever want to search for the kanji since knowing the stroke order can tell you how many strokes there are in it.
EDIT:
More information:
Wiki article on Kanji - Readings (Kinda detailed so might be too much information)
Tae Kim's Japanese Grammar Guide - Kanji (A more simple explanation)
BTW Tae Kim's Guide is <3 It is useful when looking up grammar I have yet to learn as well as the various slang forms of grammar that I already know.
Haha, that was not a refreshment for me at all, but something I did not know at all. I haven't even touched kanji yet, because I want to make sure I have all of the kana memorized first (I've got hiragana down, but katakana...not so much).
However, I understand what you're saying.
So...does that mean 「知」 alone has something to do with 'to know' or 'to understand'? 'Chi' means 'blood' though, right? Is that a different kanji?
Yes. The kanji "chi" for blood is 血.
「知」 itself means "to know". When used in the verb 「知る」 it is read as "shiru". I have no examples about when in a compound for 「知」 though. :/
The thing is many kanji can have the same kun or on reading. For example, both 「二」 and 「日」 have a reading of "ni". The first character, 「二」 (two), has an on reading of "ni" and a kun reading of "futa". 「日」 (sun/day) has on readings of "ni", "nichi" and "jitsu" (according to WWWJDIC) and kun readings of "hi", "bi" and "ka".
EDIT: Zeromus_X beat me too it. But basically what I was trying to say is that many kanji can have similar readings and sounds, but it is through writing the kanji that we get the difference in meaning. Thus writing in only hiragana sometimes can suck since you have no hint at what the word could mean, though if you recognize a kanji in a word at least you can take a stab at the meaning if you are not able to read it properly.
So in other words, there's no trick to figure out what means what, except just memorizing everything? :pQuote:
Originally Posted by The Summoner of Leviathan
I know. It sucks.
But not many kids in the modern day remember stroke order for Kanji and remember as much as they did before.
Some things that english classes do for a Japanese lesson is more or less... old. Modern japanese talk isn't like a new language but it's a bit different... Unfortunately some things you have to be a native to know. I know a lot of people who pick up Japanese to understand what their favourite anime is saying. I never say it to them, but the chances of them understanding it under the teachings of a normal class... is rather minimal. Because things are just taught too formally.
Anyway back to the topic, the Kanji stuff is basically like... like Homophones. They sound exactly the same but the meaning is different! So like you said there is no other way but to memorise. Just like how we learn words. We learn them by listening to other people. Like the words 'where' and 'wear' they sound the same but there is no trick to knowing the difference. We just learn and remember.
That's why I just said that some may be hard to learn unless you have been speaking that language for a while. As demotivating as it is, it's those who don't give up that achieve highly.
I have no intentions of giving up at all. It will be difficult, but I know I can do it if I stick with it.
その気で行ったら絶対うまくなります。頑張ってください！いつか一緒に会話できたら良いですね。
なに？ わかりません。。。
My vocabulary is so very small. -_-
Hm hm~!
Well, you're not going to give up and I believe that you will get it someday- if not soon ;) So that bunch of text is all yours to translate! :up:
Even with that furigana injector, I still don't know enough words to know where one starts and ends, let alone translate them! *frustrated*
Wow, they really thought of everything. =D
I just completed my first semester of Japanese study at Uni. I thought I did rather well, for a 15 year old kid. But anyway, I really hate not having Japanese mode on my pc. This thread will help me with my study til I can take my next semester (in a year and a half, bastards) :)
I get to take some lessons over the summer at my library. ^__^
I've done GCSE and am currently on AS Level.
日本のGCSEをしました。今、日本のAS・Levelをします。
I wish they offered japanese when I was at high school :p Got lumped with french and german instead though - not like I remember much of either :p
Then again, I had no interest in japanese or knew anything about it back then anyway :p
Yeah, my school didn't let my in Jap until I was in year 10. I did 7 years of spanish in primary school and two years of annoying french.
... i know absolutely no japanese. i can count to 10 because i was in karate, but thats about it. i would love to learn japanese, but looking at this thread...... omg....
Why not try learning it? Nothing is stopping you. You don't HAVE to be serious about it- you can just pull out anytime.
Don't let people discourage you! :up:
The fuddy duddies at GHF want you all to know about this mozdev.org - kanjilish: index
Downloaded. Let's see how this works...
EDIT: A lot of words don't get kanji-fied, though...
There are a lot of problems with a program like that. It does not really teach any sort of proficiency in reading kanji. I am aware that it states it own flaws but I think the flaws, personally, would out weight any good that would come from it. Even if you know what two kanji mean in a word, it does not mean you can always figure out the word. An example where with a bit a thinking you can figure out what it means: 「電話」 (read: denwa). 「電」 means "electricity" and 「話」 means "talk". So "electric talk"? If you think about it, then you realize it actually means telephone. Now something like 「電車」 (read: densha) is a different story. As we know, 「電」 means "electricity". 「車」 means "car". Electric car? How about it actually meaning "train". It can be more confusing than that, but at first most of the words you learn make sense, later the compounds, from what I understand take a lot more thinking to attach them together or barely does. Personaly, I am more into learning it all at once, so when I learn a kanji I want to learn its meaning, stroke count and order, and its readings. I do not want any backtracking. But maybe that is just me.Quote:
Originally Posted by rubah
Which reminds me, if I have no mentioned this, then I should.
Resources:
Tae Kim's Japanese guide to Japanese Grammar - An awesome guide that helps with a lot of grammar, often also giving information on the slang equivalents.
Tae Kim's Blog - Such a good and interesting read and often very informative.
Jim Breen's WWWJDIC - One of the best E-J/J-E dictionaries out there. It is this dictionary that rikai-chan uses. Also can do various forms of kanji look ups. Highly recommend it.
Tae Kim's Japanese Guide to Japanese Grammar is what I'm currently learning from. I tried learning Japanese way back when and used some awful direct phrase translation (ie. this is how you say "Where is the bathroom?") way back when I was like ... twelve. Then I took Latin in school and was taught proper skills to use in learning new languages, which in turn made me realize that learning grammar is the first proper step in learning any language.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Summoner of Leviathan
And so here I am! I know Hiragana and the muddied sounds, although I just can't seem to properly memorize Katakana. Then again, I haven't really applied myself to studying lately :jess:
I'm taking the Japanophile plunge, and decided to study Japanese for at least a semester in college. I'll be here when the time comes practicing too!
Quote:
Originally Posted by qwertyxsora
I learned them through memorization, obviously. I'm still having trouble with distinguishing 「シ」、「ン」、「ツ」、and 「ソ」, but it can't be helped.Quote:
Originally Posted by Momiji
I just made small flash cards on paper in order to teach myself because I was trying to memorize hiragana and katakana in order, which was just hindering me. I have hiragana completely committed to memory, and 90% of katakana came just from making the flash cards!
Now the actual learning of grammar comes D:
Sorry for the double post and all, but I need some help. I'm having a lot of trouble distinguishing between the particles は、も、and が.
I understand how to use wa, such as in this context:
私は学生。
Except I don't understand how that would differ from:
私が学生。
も I'm pretty good with. Can it only be used for including another topic, though、or are there other uses for it?
I'd recommend practicing by writing them over and over again, in the proper stroke order (that's how I memorized them, anyway). That way you can tell katakana shi/tsu and n/so apart. Remember that katakana shi has the curvy line going up 「シ」, and tsu has it going down 「ツ」. Katakana n has it going up 「ン」, and so has it going down 「ソ」.Quote:
I learned them through memorization, obviously. I'm still having trouble with distinguishing 「シ」、「ン」、「ツ」、and 「ソ」, but it can't be helped.
Tae Kim's Guide explains it pretty well, but I'll add to what I know about the differences.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moon Rabbits
Overall が has many more uses than は. As most know は is referred to as the topic marker whereas が is the subject marker. Tae Kim, in her guide, says that defining が as a subject marker can be misleading, I agree. How my prof explained it to us is that は expresses shared knowledge between the speaker and the listener, whereas が expresses that the information is new to the listener or that the speaker believes the is new to the listener. In this case, Tae Kim's redefinition of が as an unknown marker is apt. Returning to your examples:
私は学生。
Here it is understood that both the speaker and the listener are aware that the speaker is a student.
私が学生。
Here it is understood that the listener did not know that the speaker was a student.
が also functions as marking an unknown in questions as well. When the subject is a question word, then が always follows it.
Ex: どこがいぬいますか。 (Where is the dog?)
In this case, the location of the dog is unknown to the speaker.
If the question words follows the topic, then you use は.
Ex: じむしつはどこですか。 (Where is the business office)
In this case, the topic, business office, is known to the speaker therefore is marked with は.
Also, after the subject has been mentioned, you can use は to refer to the same thing.
Ex:
A:あそこにねこがいますね。 (There is a cat over there)
B:それはくらいねこですか。 (Is it a black cat?)
A-san reveal the information about the cat to B-san (this is new information to B-san). B-san, now knowing of the cat's existence, uses は to mark it.
は and が can be used in the same sentence as well.
Ex: 田中さんは目があおいです。 (lit: As for Tanaka-san, he has blue eyes)
The topic here is Tanaka-san, though the subject of the verb copula is eyes.
*This is not to be mistaken for: 田中さんの目はあおいです。 (lit: As for Tanaka-san's eyes, they are blue). Even though to English speakers there would be very little difference between the two, also the fact that the more literally translation of the former is rather clumbsy in English, there is a slight difference between the two.*
There are a few more examples where you would use が with は but those are for more complex sentences that use modifying clauses. I was about to write about them but then realized I am more or less vomiting all that I know and it might prove to be TMI. If not, just say and I can try to explain those too. (Also if I am wrong, please correct me for my own sake as well as everyone else's. I profess that I am only a beginner like everyone else. Heck, I barely passed my Japanese class).
I hope this makes sense. It is part from memory, part from my text book (Nakama). Mostly the examples from my text book. If anyone notices any mistakes, please tell me!
As for が it can have other uses too. が also works with intransitive verbs as well, or when referring to skill or abilities. So when you are talking about being skillful at something (上手), suck at something (下手), like something (好き) or understand something (分かる), you use が to mark that which you skillful[or good] (at)/poor (at)/like/understand.
Finally, が can be used to contrast two sentences. Think of it like a weak version of "but".
There are many more uses of は and が, though you will come more and more across them as you further your studies. Heck, I am sure I have not seen the end of them yet. -__-; *should brush up on stuff before September*
EDIT:
As for も, it can be used with question words to form a negative noun. Okay, that sounds odd but here is what I mean:
何も - nothing
だれも - no one
いつも - never (can also be used in the affirmative sense to mean always)
どこも - nowhere
も can also be used to express a lack of preference.
東京も京都もおもしろい所です。 (Both Tokyo and Kyoto are interesting places)
There are probably more uses of the particle も that I am not aware of. Still a newb to the language myself. ^__^;;;
Thanks for all your help :D This has cleared things up for me, enough to move onto learning adjectives anyway.
Attention all Firefox 3 users: the Furigana Injector is back. :heart:
Muhyo, how long have you studied Japanese?
俺はこの言葉がとても好きだから、マイニチ勉強すんだよ。
:D
This is how I tell said Katakana letters apart:Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeromus_X
シ and ン use more or less horizontal dots, and they are placed high up.
ツ and ソ use relatively vertical dots, and they're positioned further down.
First of all, make sure you get used to the radicals.Quote:
Originally Posted by Momiji
A radical is a component that serves as a "building block" for a Kanji.
Next, make sure you always actually memorize the radicals, NOT every single stroke.
For example, the Kanji for "demon", 魔 (ま), consists of 21 strokes, but if you know what you're doing, you can easily memorize it by memorizing 4 components!
And finally, you should focus on memorizing compounds rather than single Kanji.
You don't even need to know the meaning of certain Kanji, the only things that matter are if you know the compound and how to read it.
Besides, if you frequently study Kanji and learn new words, the meaning of each Kanji will become clearer and clearer anyway.
For example, take a look at these compounds:
洗車 (せんしゃ) = car wash
電車 (でんしゃ) = train
洗濯機 (せんたくき) = washing machine
If you compare these compounds, then I'm fairly sure you can guess the basic meaning of 車 and 洗.
えええ。。。
EOFFで日本語の話があるね。なるほど。
じゃー、はじめまして。私はCLOUDEDSKYだ。実は私は「です/増す」の形がちょっと好きじゃないから仏に使っていない。それも皆を知っているんだ。
私のアメリカの大学で日本語を二年間ぐらい勉強して今東京の早稲田大学で留学している。日本は面白いけど、私の日本語はまだ上手じゃないんだからよく困ることがある。今ホームステイをやっているけどお婆さんがしか いない。:(ちょっと一人ぼっちよ。も、家でネットがないんだ。それから私は学校にいる時よくネットを使っている。EOFFが大好きだ。