Math(s)

Do you like Maths? Were you/are you particularly good at Maths? Were there any bits that you enjoyed? were there some parts that made so stressed and work up over that you'd cry?

I have my non-Calc GCSE paper tomorrow, so I've spent the last few weeks revising and getting tutored by my friends (They're all 100%/A* pupils, which is a major advantage for me!). The one thing I like about Maths, is the feeling of utter ingeniousness when you feel that you've answered a difficult question correctly (though usually in my case, I'm no where near the answer) but you feel smart writing a long, complex mathematical formula as an answer.

The main things I've been trying to get my head around is Trigonometry(SOHCAHTOA~), Pythagoras theorem, Bearings, Circle Theorems, Loci, among many others things, most of which I haven't even been taught in lesson times.

Really, I should be taking the Intermediate paper, but as AQA have recently dropped that tier all those who would have done Intermediate are being put into Higher. So people like myself who are only okay at Maths, are being made to learn A* topics. It's totally backwards.

Fractions are the main HAET for me. I remember learning about them for the first time in primary school, and I just couldn't get my head around the topic and ended up bursting into tears. I've still never been confident with fractions.

tl;dr, WHAT DID YOU/DID YOU NOT LIKE ABOUT MATHS.

I hate math, it's useless in about half of all situations in real life, and yet they make it a requirement to get to such a high level for practically any degree in college when I won't need it. "Why yes you WILL need to solve for X and find the inverse tangent of the right side of a quantum circle as a History Major." :eep:

Ahahaha. Oh Math.

Basically, Math, to me, is the one subject in High School that's kept me back from being a perfect A student, from getting a fantastic SAT score, and probably what kept me from getting into NYU. History, English, Biology, Art, Music come naturally to me... all of it, except Math.

And the thing that sucks is that I'm not even that bad at Math. I'm a B student in Math. But since I'm not naturally talented in it, I want no part in it. Can't wait to never have to take a math class again after freshman year of Uni.

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Originally Posted by Bahamut2000X

I hate math, it's useless in about half of all situations in real life, and yet they make it a requirement to get to such a high level for practically any degree in college when I won't need it. "Why yes you WILL need to solve for X and find the inverse tangent of the right side of a quantum circle as a History Major." :eep:

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arctan? high level of math? xDDDDDDDDDDDDD

The neat thing about math is that there's always so much more.

I love it. especially the crazy algebra. I'm looking forward to fun with linear algebra next semester. Look at this summary!

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Systems of linear equations, vector spaces, linear transformations, matrices, and determinants.

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I liked standard deviation, but only once I found out an easier method on the calculator. I do maths in college now and it's way beyond GSCE maths.

I actually like matrices and determinants. We've been doing that in Pre-Calc, and it's probably my best unit this year.

I like maths. :D I'm pretty good at maths too, probably why I enjoy it. I don't like it enough that I'd take it any further than what I have, though.

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Originally Posted by rubah

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Originally Posted by Bahamut2000X

I hate math, it's useless in about half of all situations in real life, and yet they make it a requirement to get to such a high level for practically any degree in college when I won't need it. "Why yes you WILL need to solve for X and find the inverse tangent of the right side of a quantum circle as a History Major." :eep:

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arctan? high level of math? xDDDDDDDDDDDDD

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I consider everything beyond the most basic of algebra, high level math in the fact that it's much too high level and complicated for any real world situation. I still laugh at my math professor when he tries to convince us that being able to solve for X in a 5th root radical is a skill we need to possess for day to day living. :rolleyes2

I dropped out of honors math after freshmen year Geometry because I despised geometry. I really regret that now since I wasn't allowed to take Calculus AB my senior year because I was in regular Pre-calc. Instead I had to take statistics, which is an awesome class, but its not exactly an intensive math class.

Now, in result, I have to take a math placement test in order to be placed in Calculus for college this august, yet I don't remember any of my precalc. I've been studying some of it recently to try and catch up, so hopefully it'll help.

In ending, I am not a huge fan of Math, but I understand its necessary for my majors (biology or biochem) and try my best at it. If I had known dropping out of honors math system would have screwed me over so much by my senior year, I would've tried harder and had signed up for Honors Algebra 2/trig my sophomore year. Oh well, its over now, and I just have to score decent enough on my Placement test to be placed into calculus.

On the plus side, my roommate is a school friend who is 3rdish in the class and probably the best math student in my graduating class, so that'll help.

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Originally Posted by Shauna

I like maths. :D I'm pretty good at maths too, probably why I enjoy it. I don't like it enough that I'd take it any further than what I have, though.

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Did you take it into college? or your equivalent to college? As soon as my GCSEs are over, I can rip up my Maths books and never even look at the subject again, as there is no way on earth I am taking it for college :jess: I love my English and my Sociology, I don't need to take Maths. One of my friends, whose already doing compulsory Maths and opted to do Statistics on top of that for GCSE, is taking Maths and Further Maths at college xD

I really liked maths up until the age of thirteen or so, when a couple of bad teachers really killed my interest in the subject. My grades were fine, but I had no desire to pursue the subject beyond the point where it was compulsory. I kind of wish I could get back into a mindset where I could enjoy that sort of problem-solving, but as it stands I think most mathematicians are crazy. :p

Im awesome at maths compared to people in my school. But thats only because they're crap. Doin my A-level. (a year early)

Im with Matt on this one. maths is cool, and college maths is cooler
however, Descrete Maths is a waste of time. gimmie some fun algebra questions anyday!

I fully agree with Cz. Mattias Jonsson ruined mathematics for me.

I consider a lot of the time becoming a math teacher. I just love those crazy numbers.

"Letters VS Numbers! Knife fight tonight!"

I love math. I hate doing math. Does that make sense? Yes it does.

I am decent at Math. Not extraordinarily wonderful, not excruciatingly terrible. Just decent.

I, uh... teach the maths so I guess I must like them, eh? Only up through the high school algebra though. I'm an algebra person, not a geometry person. And no trig or calculus, thanks.

But I'm a wizard at teaching fractions.

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Originally Posted by Bahamut2000X

I consider everything beyond the most basic of algebra, high level math in the fact that it's much too high level and complicated for any real world situation. I still laugh at my math professor when he tries to convince us that being able to solve for X in a 5th root radical is a skill we need to possess for day to day living. :rolleyes2

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Originally Posted by Dr. Meek

You know what will help you do calculus and find parking spots?

Clean living.

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You may think that you don't need fancy math for day to day life, but if you look for it, you will find it there. Just because your check book doesn't take calculus to solve doesn't mean that you can't use the definition of a limit to find the asymptote your income will reach because the raises to your job's wages will reach a sort of equilibrium with the inflation you have to pay. And if that number is too low, you know you need a new job :D

you could just estimate that in your head, we're all excellent estimators, but running the numbers is very satisfying :D

plus, how do you find the the magnetic flux passing through a loop when you're building a motor if you can't integrate the magnetic field? :D

I hate Math(s). I got an A* at GCSE for some bizarre reason and I dropped it half way through the first year in college. Way too smurfing hard.

I love math! It's FUN! I have FUN doing my math homework!

I'm always making reaaally dumb mistakes like 8+2=6 though xD

Math < Literature

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Originally Posted by rubah

You may think that you don't need fancy math for day to day life, but if you look for it, you will find it there. Just because your check book doesn't take calculus to solve doesn't mean that you can't use the definition of a limit to find the asymptote your income will reach because the raises to your job's wages will reach a sort of equilibrium with the inflation you have to pay. And if that number is too low, you know you need a new job :D

you could just estimate that in your head, we're all excellent estimators, but running the numbers is very satisfying :D

plus, how do you find the the magnetic flux passing through a loop when you're building a motor if you can't integrate the magnetic field? :D

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Like I said. Useless for day to day living. :monster:

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Originally Posted by Old Manus

I hate Math(s). I got an A* at GCSE for some bizarre reason and I dropped it half way through the first year in college. Way too smurfing hard.

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HOW and help me plz.

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Originally Posted by Laddy

Math < Literature

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Never. English Literature > everything xD

I used to be math god like 105% on like every test. NOw in high school Im failing every test it sucks

I think coursework played a good part in me getting an A* in maths, I honestly thought I didn't do that great in the papers.

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Originally Posted by Zeldy

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Originally Posted by Shauna

I like maths. :D I'm pretty good at maths too, probably why I enjoy it. I don't like it enough that I'd take it any further than what I have, though.

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Did you take it into college? or your equivalent to college? As soon as my GCSEs are over, I can rip up my Maths books and never even look at the subject again, as there is no way on earth I am taking it for college :jess: I love my English and my Sociology, I don't need to take Maths. One of my friends, whose already doing compulsory Maths and opted to do Statistics on top of that for GCSE, is taking Maths and Further Maths at college xD

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I've never been to college. :p But, I did take it in my 6th Form equivalent. Got an A. :cool: But, I'm not taking it any further than this. I could have done Advanced Maths this year, but I chose not to. :p

Ugh, I hate math. My worst subject by far. Or I should say, I hate absurd pointless math, such as long ass equations that are of no use to me whatsoever in the real world (i.e. 12a(234x+21b-234/2)(23) = 287w-8-(224[77754]x), etc etc etc). I don't mind elementary school level math. :D

I like maths, and I'm pretty good at it, but I'm careless and make sloppy mistakes. You can't afford that in such an exact science.

I adore maths. I honestly think the mysteries of the universe can be found in numbers. I average about 95%+ on my mathematic-based modules at Uni. :cool:

I love math. I was one of the people who found BC Calculus to be fun. :D

High school math was fun, University math is.. hard.

Math is so much fun when you can do it. When you can't it totally sucks.

Trigonometry can die in a giant fire.

I like to think that I'd have been quite good at maths if I'd actually paid any attention. As it stands I spent all of my high school maths classes doing bugger all and dropped it at my earliest convenience.

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Originally Posted by Captain Maxx Power

I adore maths. I honestly think the mysteries of the universe can be found in numbers. I average about 95%+ on my mathematic-based modules at Uni. :cool:

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Hmm, Id say Physics is the key. But Physics has so much maths in it anyway.


Im a Physicist at heart I think. Ya know, some time soon my occupation could be trying (and failing :p) to find the Grand Unified Theory.


So, in summary,

Physics > Maths


But both subjects are so darn powerful. We wouldnt be having this conversation without them. Modern society is founded on Science and mathematics.



EDIT: My bro does maths at Uni. Confirmed me not wanting to do it. Looks way to abstract and weird for my liking.

First, why add the 's' at the end of the word? Shouldn't a subject in general be singular?

As for the subject, I hate math in any form. I'm horrible with numbers. I'm much, much better at working with words.

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Originally Posted by Momiji

First, why add the 's' at the end of the word? Shouldn't a subject in general be singular?

As for the subject, I hate math in any form. I'm horrible with numbers. I'm much, much better at working with words.

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Mathematics - Maths.
It's just easier to say!

I pretty much agree with you, though, I hate all things numerical as I can't seem to be able to remember it. I love English, and all subjects English-based. I'm dropping Maths and every single Science when I go to college, most of my subjects that I've chosen are all essay-based, so I'm not expecting much of a life.

I was best at trigonometry. I used to sit at the front of class (because I couldn't see the board otherwise) with Daren, David and Jim. Daren and I were best at trig, and David and Jim, who sat behind us, were the algebra masters.

I wound up with a C, which was ok, because I couldn't get higher than a B, because I took the Intermediate paper. The teacher wanted to put me in the Higher tier but the class was full. :(

Good job he didn't; I would have failed spectacularly. :D

Math, chemistry and physics have never ever been my strong points. If I concentrate I guess I'm average at them, but languages, art/culture classes, history and stuff like that have always been what was good at in school.

I used to really enjoy maths but while in high school, I started to lose interest and become more interested in the likes of English and History instead. I like the feeling that maths gives you when you have a big problem with multiple parts to it and you do them in the right order and at the end - with a complete solution - you can look back at all your working with a sense of satisfaction. It's definitely a subject that can make you feel good about yourself if you're good at it.

I was good but not great. I sat my GCSE Maths early and got a B in it. Annoyingly, everyone in the class did pretty badly in the mock exam, whereas I did quite well and came out with one of two A grades. Annoyed that I missed the A grade by literally one or two marks in November of year 11, I resat the exam in June with minimal revision and came out with A. Madness. I never took anything terribly advanced post-GCSE (IB Math Studies is a complete joke and all that my college offered short of the buggeringly hard Higher Level Maths) and so my knowledge of it has dwindled.

I always hated SOHCAHTOA. Not because I hated Trig, just because my year 9 maths teacher had a better (more sadistic) way of teaching it:

The Cat Sat
On An Oven
And Howled Horribly

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Originally Posted by Momiji

First, why add the 's' at the end of the word? Shouldn't a subject in general be singular?

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Different types of math, grasshopper. When's the last time you heard anyone tell you that Calculus is the same as Algebra?

Math is the win. It's like it dictates the laws of the universe, makes no sense, yet is perfect is every way. There's this disturbing simplicity in knowing that even though most of it is relatively simple, not everyone can do it. Calculus changes the way you think, and even then, few people appreciate it. Of course, once you get to higher levels of math, it stops making sense and only becomes more awesome.

Ohh, and to anyone who says you can't use math in everyday life, try being an engineer or an economics major. There is a reason you need us.

Ohh, btw, I'm really good at it, if you haven't guessed. Integrals win the hardest.

Ive been thinking lately about Maths and Science and their importance. It seems to me, using the very tenuous evidence that I have, that the popularity of these important subjects is declining in the UK. Does anyone else think that is happening?

If so, there's going to be a greater demand for scientists because they are so important. If you look at the advances in modern society, most of them are scientific. It may seem arrogant and wrong in me saying this, but I'll put it out there anyway...

Science as a whole is the most important subject for developing a country. People educated in scientific subjects are more useful than people educated in history, arts or literature. The people who are driving countries forward are educated in maths or the sciences, not arts.

There. I said it.

In high school I took Calc AB, Calc AB, Multi-Variable Calc, and Ordinary Differential Equations. I only needed Calc AB for college, which means I have (had) a bunch of useless math knowledge.

Some of it could be interesting, but absolutely useless for a student of the arts, and particularly useless for someone who never took physics and had no desire to ever take physics (even though I ended up taking Physics for BA students this semester, which had no math). I'm now two full years out of taking any math class, and I can happily say that I remember next to none of it. The only things I remember are differentiating basic functions and integrating basic functions. Considering there was a time where I could do a dilac delta function, that's a looooot of stuff that I don't remember, at all.

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Originally Posted by Tavrobel

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Originally Posted by Momiji

First, why add the 's' at the end of the word? Shouldn't a subject in general be singular?

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Different types of math, grasshopper. When's the last time you heard anyone tell you that Calculus is the same as Algebra?

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They aren't the same. However, they all fall under the general subject of math.

For example, Chemistry and Biology are both types of science, but you don't call the subject they fall under 'sciences', do you?

^But you do call them 'The Sciences'.


Thats why I call Algebra and Calculus 'The Maths'

some people call them 'the sciences'

the thing about math is that it builds on itself. you can't possibly do more than one type of calculus problem if you don't know how to use algebra to rearrange equations to get a convenient form. And if you don't know geometry, then all the volume and area applications of calculus go out the window.

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Originally Posted by Vivisteiner

Ive been thinking lately about Maths and Science and their importance. It seems to me, using the very tenuous evidence that I have, that the popularity of these important subjects is declining in the UK. Does anyone else think that is happening?

If so, there's going to be a greater demand for scientists because they are so important. If you look at the advances in modern society, most of them are scientific. It may seem arrogant and wrong in me saying this, but I'll put it out there anyway...

Science as a whole is the most important subject for developing a country. People educated in scientific subjects are more useful than people educated in history, arts or literature. The people who are driving countries forward are educated in maths or the sciences, not arts.

There. I said it.

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It's been happening for years. Physics departments up and down the country have been shut down due to lack of numbers and interest and it's a real shame. As someone who loves History and will be going on to study it in September, I fully admit that the arts aren't as useful. If I were good enough at something like Physics or Chemistry and had the same passion for them that I have for History, then I would would study one of those subjects; I'd probably feel like I was making a more meaningful contribution to society as well. Having said that, I don't think it's entirely fair to dismiss the arts. Arts degrees allow you to go in many less specialised fields such as journalism, management, business, law and the civil service among others. While maths and sciences are undoubtedly important, the arts do have an important role to play. It's a shame that some people are put off sciences because they're perceived as more difficult; I think part of these stems from the choices that people make at A-Level. I studied Physics post-GCSE and definitely found myself lacking there compared to History, but at least I made the effort to try Physics.

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Originally Posted by Zeldy

HOW and help me plz.

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Doing the Higher paper, a C is something stupid like 30%

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Originally Posted by Zeldy

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Originally Posted by Laddy

Math < Literature

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Never. English Literature > everything xD

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That's what he said :mog:

I disliked it up until Calculus, but ever since I've loved it.

@Heath: Yeah, definitely. I would never argue against that. I love subjects like history and music. In fact, the thing I dislike the most about A-levels is the lack of variety compared to GCSEs. (Man, I loved GCSEs) But I always got the impression that science was ultimately more powerful in terms of developing the modern world. Technology, medecine, manufacturing processes etc.


I just worry for the fate of a country where teenagers dont like science and go into other subjects instead. They need to see how important it is, as well as learning how rewarding it can be.

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Originally Posted by Momiji

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Originally Posted by Tavrobel

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Originally Posted by Momiji

First, why add the 's' at the end of the word? Shouldn't a subject in general be singular?

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Different types of math, grasshopper. When's the last time you heard anyone tell you that Calculus is the same as Algebra?

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They aren't the same. However, they all fall under the general subject of math.

For example, Chemistry and Biology are both types of science, but you don't call the subject they fall under 'sciences', do you?

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Its because mathematic is an adjective and shortened to math, and mathematics is the noun and shortened to maths. However maths can also be used as an adjective, as can mathematical

You see the thing abot math is it is the only subject who chooses to spit in the face of the english language. And that makes english fanatics hate it. Very post modern.

I really like maths, though im bad at parametrics, im pretty good at everything else ive done so far.

English people are jealous because they cant model the laws that govern the whole Universe on one page, but mathematical people can.

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Originally Posted by Vivisteiner

@Heath: Yeah, definitely. I would never argue against that. I love subjects like history and music. In fact, the thing I dislike the most about A-levels is the lack of variety compared to GCSEs. (Man, I loved GCSEs) But I always got the impression that science was ultimately more powerful in terms of developing the modern world. Technology, medecine, manufacturing processes etc.


I just worry for the fate of a country where teenagers dont like science and go into other subjects instead. They need to see how important it is, as well as learning how rewarding it can be.

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Hence why A-Levels should be done away with or reformed in favour of something similar to the International Baccalaureate. A hell of a lot more intensive, but I definitely feel more rounded academically than my friends who did A-Levels. English, German, History, Physics, Maths, Psychology and Epistemology (through the 'Theory of Knowledge' component) is quite a mixed bag! It is sad and I agree that the Sciences are - probably - more useful. However, I fully hope to make a living out of History as a historian or teacher; as unlikely as that is.

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Originally Posted by Vivisteiner

English people are jealous because they cant model the laws that govern the whole Universe on one page, but mathematical people can.

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Actually, us math guys can't do it either; there's too many of them. Not unless you stripped down explanations and didn't show work, but if you can't show your work, you might as well be wrong. English majors can use their skills in writing to at least attempt a theory on the workings of the world, which can incorporate math if they choose, and since they are good writers, they can be both concise and appreciable. Well, technically, they'd need two or more pages. Either way, it's like arguing whether ends-means users are superior to those who can craft the theory behind it. You need both.

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Originally Posted by Vivisteiner

English people are jealous because they cant model the laws that govern the whole Universe on one page, but mathematical people can.

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Not really. Arithmetic is a man made system, just like writing.

Once in trigonometry the teacher asked me to write one of the previous night's homework questions on the board and solve it.
I was so confused by the subject that I got up and wrote:

x=a/2b5jyra X 44- I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE HELL I'M DOING

I got kicked out of the class for that.
So much for no student left behind...

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Originally Posted by SpendGil

Once in trigonometry the teacher asked me to write one of the previous night's homework questions on the board and solve it.
I was so confused by the subject that I got up and wrote:

x=a/2b5jyra X 44- I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE HELL I'M DOING

I got kicked out of the class for that.
So much for no student left behind...

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Actually it's no CHILD left behind. ;]

MATH!!!! mi favorite!!!! me gusto mucho.

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Originally Posted by Vivisteiner

English people are jealous because they cant model the laws that govern the whole Universe on one page, but mathematical people can.

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How big a sheet are you talking here, buddy?

Because all I do most of my life is study those laws(and what to actually do with them, which mathmatisians can't) and I gotta tell ya, that's gotta be one hell of a sheet.

Maths was one of my majors at university, and I loved every second of it. The best is discrete and calculus is a close second. I hate stats (it's not real maths anyway :p).

I use the maths I learnt at uni every day, as well. Physics is pretty cool too but it's got nothing on maths.

And maths ends in "s". :p

I hated maths and had the worst teacher ever, yet somehow I still got a B at GCSE. That led me to take it at A-Level, only to drop it after a week after remembering how much I hated it.

^At my school they only let us take A level maths if we got an A or A* for GCSE.

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Originally Posted by Tavrobel

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Originally Posted by Vivisteiner

English people are jealous because they cant model the laws that govern the whole Universe on one page, but mathematical people can.

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Actually, us math guys can't do it either; there's too many of them. Not unless you stripped down explanations and didn't show work, but if you can't show your work, you might as well be wrong. English majors can use their skills in writing to at least attempt a theory on the workings of the world, which can incorporate math if they choose, and since they are good writers, they can be both concise and appreciable. Well, technically, they'd need two or more pages. Either way, it's like arguing whether ends-means users are superior to those who can craft the theory behind it. You need both.

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Im only going by what Michio Kaku said in his book 'Physics of the Impossible.'

He said that all the equations necessary to explain the Universe could be fitted onto one page. Of course, to prove those equations are true would require many more pages, but the equations themselves occupy very little space.

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How big a sheet are you talking here, buddy?

Because all I do most of my life is study those laws(and what to actually do with them, which mathmatisians can't) and I gotta tell ya, that's gotta be one hell of a sheet.

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I assume he was referring to an A4 sheet.

Michio Kaku - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the guy, in case you dont know.

Well I had my Non-calc GCSE today, and it wasn't too bad, though of course, I could only attempt the final 3 or 4 questions, as all the A* techniques just go over my head. The beginning of the paper I could do though! I have my Maths calc in June.

In my school and all the colleges I have applied to, you needed a B to do Maths for A Level, and you needed As to do further Maths.

Anyway, MATHS SUCKS.

For the maths geeks. :bigsmile:

http://nfccomic.com/comics/205.jpg

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Originally Posted by Captain Maxx Power

For the maths geeks. :bigsmile:

http://nfccomic.com/comics/205.jpg

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Ghehe, funny

Is it because the square root of -1 would be nothing? I don't know xD

Such a thing does not exist!

I smurfing hated maths at school. I could do it on most the part, but I hated it, it bored me half to death and every single maths teacher I had at school was useless - so I taught myself most things out of a book. I got a B in my GCSE. I'm okay, but when it comes to anything to do with shapes and fractions I fail miserably. I used to find algebra the easiest, but having not done any for the past two years I probably couldn't do it now.

The college I originally applied for asked me to do Maths or Statistics instead of my choice of Law - so I didn't go to that college. I couldn't have done another two years of it. I much preferred the English subjects at school, Art and ICT. I didn't get to do Psychology until college as my school didn't offer it as a GCSE at the time (they started to the year after! :mad2:), but that's my favourite now. :jess:

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Originally Posted by Sergeant Hartman

Such a thing does not exist!

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Yeah but wouldn't you be able to see it if it was left in Surd form?

If you came out with a surd like that, then you must have done something wrong.

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Originally Posted by Zeldy

Is it because the square root of -1 would be nothing? I don't know xD

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[boringmode]An imaginary number, denote as i, is a value that when squared becomes -1, and is the value -1 becomes when it itself is rooted. Because such a number doesn't exist within the realms of real numbers it's necessary to create it, thus the use of i as a standard value for this figure. It's primarily used in complex numbers, which are algebraic equations that can be used for a number of things, the least of which includes defining the values for a vector.[/boringmode]

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Originally Posted by Captain Maxx Power

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Originally Posted by Zeldy

Is it because the square root of -1 would be nothing? I don't know xD

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[boringmode]An imaginary number, denote as i, is a value that when squared becomes -1, and is the value -1 becomes when it itself is rooted. Because such a number doesn't exist within the realms of real numbers it's necessary to create it, thus the use of i as a standard value for this figure. It's primarily used in complex numbers, which are algebraic equations that can be used for a number of things, the least of which includes defining the values for a vector.[/boringmode]

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:jess:

Really, just ignore me. I'm just trying to annoy you by picking faults xD

Imaginary numbers are cool. They dont exist yet they can solve many problems. Without them you wouldnt even exist.

Ok, maybe they're not that important. But you get the picture.