What do you define as canon?

This is a question that is a bit subjective. What do you consider canon. Now, for most series, it is often defined as the main games, in this case, the numbered games. But there are three problems:

1.) Final Fantasy XI. Being an MMORPG and such a radical departure, it didn't seem like it belonged as a canon title.

2.) Tactics: Non-canon is often an insult to a game. It often means worthless money-milker. But for many people, Tactics is far from "worthless." And because of non-canon's demoting use, many people treat Tactics as canon.

3.) Direct Sequels: Final Fantasy direct sequels often are not up to par with the initial title. They are often very different too, containing just a few elements from the past game.

Anyways, so what is your thought?

For me, I exclude FFXI, Tactics, and Direct Sequels. I would explain why, but I would imagine some else will.

I'm heavily into Star Trek, where "canon" states that all of the television episodes and movies are "official" continuity while all of the liscenced-yet-not-created-by-Paramount novels/video games/RPGs as "fan" continuity. From that perspective, it is hard to apply canon to the FF franchise since ALL of the games are official products of the Square-Enix creative team.

So I guess the one thing I would definately exclude from FF canon would be the novelizations (even though "Mateus", the name given to the Emperor in the FF2 novel, is now widely accepted as his first name. meh.). Some of the anime probably shouldn't be considered canon. I know Square-Enix produced Advent Children and The Spirits Within, but I don't think they had direct control over Legend of the Crystals or Unlimited.

Considering Final Fantasy games take place (usually) in independent universes that have nothing to do with each other, the only ones that are "canon" are Final Fantasy X and X-2, the Final Fantasy VII compilation, Final Fantasy IV and IV-2, Final Fantasy Tactics and XII, and Final Fantasy Tactics Advance and A2 (probably). And even then, only within their respective universes.

That's an odd one. Seeing as the series has no direct game-to-game continuity (Future Esthar notwithstanding) I wouldn't really think about what was "canon" as there is none between each title. Oddly enough though, I always refer to FFIX as being an "honest to god pastiche of old school FF games", which is weird because it is an FF game.

Nyeh, I dunno.

I've encountered the odd bit of presented evidence that FF Tactics takes place years and years upon years and years after FFIV, to the point that the continents have drifted and of course it no longer resembles FFIV. Also, what Roto said; the ones that have sequels are canon to each other, but even then there's supposedly a fair bit of contradiction in the FF7 compilation.

The other little oddity is Ehrgeiz. While obviously having absolutely nothing to do with the FF7 plot and merely containing characters from the game in non-canon appearances, I did actually take the manual's name for Tifa's martial art as canon purely on the logic of it being a style named after her instructor, "Zangan-ryu". Incidentally, her Ehrgeiz moveset actually made an appearance in Advent Children. That backflip everyone mistook for Somersault? Straight from Ehrgeiz! That baseball slide everyone mistook for Waterkick? Straight from Ehrgeiz! She could actually do the original Somersault and Waterkick as separate special moves in that game, but something tells me Square wanted to put something more obscure in so people would go "Holy crap it's her Ehrgeiz moveset!"

lolwut?

All of the distinct universes have their own canon. So all of them. This quite confuddles me.

Those with direct sequels are canon with each other.

They're all seperate stories.

I consider the numbered FFs (FFI-XII) to be the main series (though not canon) but I don't really recognize the sequels and spin-offs as connected to the series with the exception of the Tactics franchise. Only cause it was designed to be expanded on where every other game has always been written as a one shot piece thus any additions to the story is due to fan demand rather than actually artistic reasoning. Thus I don't recognize them as canon cause their stories are irrelevant.

Don't forget that Vagrant Story is part of the Ivalice Aliance and therefore canon to FFXII, Tactics, & Tactics Advanced, TA is iffy though because it takes place in an alternate reality or something, don't really remember at this point now, i was turned off by the whole Judge thing and haven't really touched it because of that...

Man I don't waste time worrying about what is and isn't cannon, I just play the games and if a spinoffs concept/gameplay doesn't interest me or promises to disappoint, I chill and talk about what I know happened in the game.

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Originally Posted by Elly

Don't forget that Vagrant Story is part of the Ivalice Aliance and therefore canon to FFXII, Tactics, & Tactics Advanced, TA is iffy though because it takes place in an alternate reality or something, don't really remember at this point now, i was turned off by the whole Judge thing and haven't really touched it because of that...

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In Tactics Advance, the world exists because Mewt wanted to live in a world based on Final Fantasy. Since only one Final Fantasy has Nu Mou and Viera and stuff, I guess he was talking about Final Fantasy XII. :P It's not the same Ivalice so they're not really connected to each other.

I'd consider the numbered series to be canon, excluding games like Dirge of Cerberus and X-2 because they are more like spin-offs of games in the series rather than a new entry in the series.

I do love FFT, actually more than any other game ever made. However, I don't consider it to be canon for a lot of reasons. First of all, it's a total departure from the elements of gameplay of previous entries. It's a strategy RPG, not a pure RPG. And I don't know if any of the team from previous FF games worked on FFT. I'm almost positive that Nobuo Uematsu didn't do the music. The FFT music is still awesome, but you can tell it's Uematsu. I don't think FFT or FFMQ counts. And let's not forget about mentioning FF Legend or even adventure. I know that Adventure was actually in the Mana series, and I believe the Legend games were in the SaGa series, but they are still titled "Final Fantasy".

As far as Final Fantasy XI goes, that's a tricky one. It's part of the series, but it's so very different from the other games. I think it probably counts because it is in the numbered series, the same as FF4 or FF7. So I personally say yes about FF11.

All of the above are canon. It\s even less of a problem for all of them to be canon, because only a small minority of the titles aren't independent stories. Regardless, the owners of the creative works are the final judge in this question. What would you say if you wrote two novels and your fans refused to acknowledge the second as part of your story?

If Square goes out officially and states: FF8 is the direct sequel to FF11, then that's how it is. You may not like it, you might even hate it, but it doesn't change the fact that it's how it is

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Originally Posted by Mirage

All of the above are canon. It\s even less of a problem for all of them to be canon, because only a small minority of the titles aren't independent stories. Regardless, the owners of the creative works are the final judge in this question. What would you say if you wrote two novels and your fans refused to acknowledge the second as part of your story?

If Square goes out officially and states: FF8 is the direct sequel to FF11, then that's how it is. You may not like it, you might even hate it, but it doesn't change the fact that it's how it is

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1) Actually XI would be a prequel, as VIII came first. While Square has authority over story, they don't have authority over language outside of the game. :p

2) In squares defense, it's not like claiming that would be any less of a stretch then anything else they tried to pull with FF VIII. ZING!

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Originally Posted by NeoCracker

1) Actually XI would be a prequel, as VIII came first. While Square has authority over story, they don't have authority over language outside of the game. :p

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You are joking, right?

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Originally Posted by Mirage

If Square goes out officially and states: FF8 is the direct sequel to FF11, then that's how it is. You may not like it, you might even hate it, but it doesn't change the fact that it's how it is

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Well, that's assuming that it's entirely up to Square-Enix to decide what is cannon and what is not. I'll disagree with their assessment if it seems silly to me. If they make a game with a story that leads off of a previous story, I'll accept that game as a sequel/prequel, but I won't consider Final Fantasy Adventure to be cannon at any point because I already know it's actually part of the Mana series. Likewise with the Final Fantasy Legend series. I already know it's not cannon, and that it shouldn't even be called "Final Fantasy", since it's part of the SaGa series. So even if Squeenix decided that Final Fantasy Legend III was the prequel to Final Fantasy V, I wouldn't accept it, much like I don't accept the crappy Star Wars sequels that other random dudes write to take place after Return of the Jedi.

what do you define as canon?
hmmm The sister ray

hahahahahahahahaha what a great/lame joke
*dies of shame*