Who do you think is the cruelest character in any FF?
I would say Kefka or perhaps Zemus, who really screwed with people's minds.
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Who do you think is the cruelest character in any FF?
I would say Kefka or perhaps Zemus, who really screwed with people's minds.
Cid Kramer, from FF8. What an evil bastard he is. Actually forcing people to spend time with that shrill harpy, Rinoa. Ugh.
Sephiroth because he cut Tifa! Then later Loz hits her! It's double bad because those two are the same... person-being-Jenova-lifestream-baby-incarnation-cell-thing-Samus-is-a-woman.
So Sephiroth.
HAd they only allowed you to ball gag her, I would disagree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spatvark
However they don't, so you are in fact correct sir.
I think Locke was pretty cruel to Celes at one part.
Squall was very cruel to Quistis.
Lucrecia is also quite cruel, by rejecting vincent and experimenting with her baby, Hojo is in that category with her
All playable characters are cruel since they murder and slaugther hordes of monsters without blinking eyes and they even are dancing after they have killed monsters. They even stole their money and items. What a cruel beings.
They invade people's homes too, and rob them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Unstoppable Pig
And they feel glorified doing it, cuz nobody ever calls them on it >_>Quote:
Originally Posted by The CrystalThey invade people's homes too, and rob them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Unstoppable Pig
I think the most cruel would be Hojo, who ruined every single main character's life in one way or another, and thought he was doing good up until the very end. Lucrecia would also be up there, for what she did to poor Vincent.
Gestahl also strikes me as being particularly cruel for chaining up Celes, having guards beat her, pressumably killing Banon, faking remorse to trick the heroes, brainwashng soldiers, ordering the death's and draining of power f countless Espers, and other things.
One last mention, I found Tidus's completely pointless hatred of Jecht really cruel too. I mean, he hates him because his mom liked him? Weren't they married? Wouldn't it make SENSE for her to like him?
There's probably better examples, but I can't think right now.
Cloud and his party from VII. Cause they took that little smurfing bitch Yuffie back even after she stole all your materia and forced you to go all "Scooby Doo" in her hometown. They should have left her to the Don and let her suffer the fate she deserved. Instead they take her back and your forced to deal with her bitchy and annoying ass for the rest of the game. :mad: smurf YOU YUFFIE, YOU DIE AND YOU GO TO HELL!!!
Ex-Death, Kefka, and Kuja are all cruel assholes who got enjoyment out of their death and destruction as well...
Well there was also the constant mockery and alcoholism. :PQuote:
Originally Posted by arcanedude34
Kefka destroyed the world and tormented the whole population just for the lulz. That's pretty damn cruel.
Pssh. What's a few broken bones and shattered dreams amongst family?Quote:
Originally Posted by Roto13
Cecil from IV. He, and his men, kill countless Mysidian mages, he kills a young girls mothers dragon which also kills the mother, torches the young girls village, and gets his girlfriend kidnapped. He also kills a few doors and a wall.
I agree, and the creators of that game are also up there for having Rinoa in your face the whole time. Good thing there was no voice-acting then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spatvark
Squall was pretty insensitive as well, which would be okay, if he wasn't so emo with his own problems the whole time.
i think sin is the cruelist character. he couldve at least killed yuna and rikku so we wouldnt have to have been exposed to the horrors of ffx2 and yrp
The cruelest characters are those birds. Always crashing into people when they least expect it. Just when you've almost 9999 in Dragoon Jump BLAMMO! When you've almost got 0:00:00 WHAMMO! Those birds can be so cruel.
...and Alfred Hitchcock's legacy lives on :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermachtnis
From the main FF heroes... Zidane Tribal.
I mean, the guy is a thief! People complain about Cloud and Squall being too "emo", but at least they wouldn't steal your things.
Yes, clearly stealing things is far more cruel then constatnly shutting down everyone you know, belittling them, and costantly reminding them of how little you care.
Cause everyone knows physical belongings are far more important then the psyche. :p
Ahh, but at the end of the story, Squall and Cloud changed for the better.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoCracker
Zidane? He is still a thief, and is proud of it.
Not to mention that Squall and Cloud didn't want to hurt the people close to them. It's just that they had so many problems in their heads, that they forgot there were other people who cared for them and were trying to help. What Cloud and Squall did wasn't intentional.
Zidane on the other hand, was intentionaly stealing.
Yes, but did you know Squall and cloud ALSO became Leapers?
This may have nothing to do with this argument, but its a little fact that just so happens to be true.
Are you STILL going to say Zidane is more cruel?
Edit: Okay, I can't think of the right spelling, but I assume you now what I mean by Leapers. XD
Zidane kept all his meaness in and then lashed out, at least Squall wasn't a phony
smurfing Delita from tactics. he was calculating, and cold blooded from damn near the beginning.
Kefka for antagonists.
How is being a thief cruel? Maybe if he was stealing candy from children by punching them in the face (and violating them with his tail) but he doesn't. He has one emotional mishap and he rarely steals anything from people who don't deserve it. We might as well say Edge is more evil cause he's a thief and a prince,which means he's obviously stealing when he can afford not to. Not to mention he's a ninja, which is a hate crime against pirates ;)
Leepers, you mean?Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoCracker
I don't remember this being stated in the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
Sure, why not?Quote:
We might as well say Edge is more evil cause he's a thief and a prince,which means he's obviously stealing when he can afford not to.
Maybe "cruel" isn't the right word to use, but what I'm trying to say, is that Zidane isn't so nice as his fans think he is. They only remember his friendly personality, but completely forget what his "profession" is.
Well Locke is technically a "thief" and he steals more from people the player would say is innocent than Zidane. While we're discussing semantics, most of the FF characters are not exactly upstanding citizens. Thieves, Mercenaries, Pirates, Assassins, War Crime fugitives and even a bar owner obviously breaking child labor laws. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by The Crystal
I don't think Zidane is cruel. He's not ruthless, neither does he enjoy tormenting people or anything like that.
Like a lot of other Final Fantasy characters, he's a criminal, but that doesn't necesserily mean someone's cruel too. Also, some people can be cruel without being criminal.
I'mma say Kuja, because no one else will. He manipulated the Black Mages. It was sad. :(
Chupon
I want my damn elixer!!
Thats Mr. Chupon to you!
i think he has a bit of dodgy thing going on with Ultros
Heh. I was going to say Gestahl, mainly because of the scene with (SPOILER)Terra's mother, but this changed my mind. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Spatvark
That talking water fountain from FF1. I never talked to him again after he insulted my face and said it was dirty. :mad:
I'm glad I'm not alone on this. I've never actually defeated him and got my Elixir. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by blackmage_nuke
Why does no one second Kuja? He was totally the meanest, most cruel villain!
Obviously correct answers don't need seconding.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fate Fatale
>>> Hojo..
Kefka actually killed people for the sheer joy he got out of watching them suffer. I don't think it's possible to get crueller than that, and I can't think of any other character in the series who shares that particular personality quirk, so Kefka wins this by default.
>>> Yeah its possible to get crueller, like experimenting on people, your own son and his mother, turning them into monsters and condeem them to a hellish life..Quote:
Originally Posted by The Man
While experimenting on living people is certainly reprehensible, Hojo didn't do it on anywhere near the scale on which Kefka carried out his mass slaughter, if my memory of FFVII is correct. Just the quote, "Nothing can beat the music of hundreds of voices screaming in unison," implies that Kefka carried out mass slaughter out of sheer sadism. I don't recall anything connected to Hojo that suggested he derived enjoyment out of experimenting on people - he did it all out of a lust for power. To me, the word cruel implies that not only is a person a complete asshole, but he or she also takes pleasure in being a complete asshole. That, to me, makes Kefka the greater evil.
>>> If it comes to mass slaughter [spoilers]Hojo also did that in Dirge of Cerberus.[/spoilers]
You are right that Hojo did it all out of a lust for power, but Kefka was lusting for power too right?. I mean it would be stupid to make so many human sacrifices just for the sake of it and without a higher goal.
You say that Kefka enjoyed it, well i can tell that Hojo really enjoyed it too, I dont recall him regreting anything in fact just like Kefka he was always laughing like stupid the whole time..
Well I guess Hojo`s true colors can really be seen in Dirge of Cerberus, in ff7 the bad guy was Sephiroth after all.
^Eh, in the end, I always interpreted Hojo as the true villain of FF VII. (SPOILER)But I agree, he's not really treated as such until later in the compilation. But then, that's only because the perspective is changed, as Hojo is Vincent's nemesis. Also, and this is off topic, but does anyone feel kinda cheated with the introduction of Genesis? He seems to steal some of Sephiroth's fire.
On the topic of Kefka, I can't really remember VI all that well, but Kefka did seem to do some of his mass killings for fun and not necessarily just for power. Why did he poison the water outside Cyan's homeland?
Kefka is the only correct answer.
As far as I'm concerned, the entire Compilation of FFVII doesn't even exist.Quote:
Originally Posted by black orb
Kefka actually explicitly says that he gets pleasure out of others' pain. Hojo, afaik, never actually said that. Though, since I've never bothered with DoC, I could be wrong.
>>> Huh? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by The Man
>>> There is no need for a character to explicitly say what is really obvious..Quote:
Originally Posted by The Man
>>> Well you have to understand that poor Tidus, is childhood sucked because of his carefree parents.Quote:
Originally Posted by arcanedude34
And I dont think Tidus really hated Jecht, he just was mad at him and wanted to smack him a good one.
He probably just agree's with me about the quality of the Compilation being very poor and mostly a marketing ploy to bleed money from a successful game.Quote:
Originally Posted by black orb>>> Huh? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by The Man
In this case, I feel it is important. I never felt that Hojo got enjoyment out of the torture of his victims from experiments. He enjoyed gaining knowledge and he used people to acquire this cause he felt the scientific findings far outweigh the basic rights of life he used to obtain such knowledge. Also, Lucrecia took part of the experiments of her own free will so I don't feel we should be handing out sympathy for her.Quote:
>>> There is no need for a character to explicitly say what is really obvious..Quote:
Originally Posted by The Man
Kefka, tortures people for the pure enjoyment of it. Other villains kill and torture in order to accomplish goals but Kefka did it cause he felt it was fun. There was rarely little method to his madness. He is a sociopath who feels he is a superior being to others. He purposely goes overboard and torches and demolishes any life he comes across. After becoming a god, he keeps humanity alive only so he can enjoy torturing and killing them slowly. In the end he tells your party that their is no meaning to existence and decides to end all life on the planet cause he feels life is a mistake.
I have tro admit that Tidus' hatred of his dad is pretty weak and unfounded. Yes it sucks to be belittled all the time but overall, I found his story with Jecht to be rather laughable rather than compelling. In the end, Tidus never really hated his dad, he just never understood things from his perspective..Quote:
>>> Well you have to understand that poor Tidus, is childhood sucked because of his carefree parents.Quote:
Originally Posted by arcanedude34
And I dont think Tidus really hated Jecht, he just was mad at him and wanted to smack him a good one.
This.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf KannoHe probably just agree's with me about the quality of the Compilation being very poor and mostly a marketing ploy to bleed money from a successful game.Quote:
Originally Posted by black orb>>> Huh? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by The Man
Again, this. If there's any example of Hojo articulating such an utterly nihilistic view of the world, it has escaped my attention. Though, as I've said, I haven't paid much attention to the Compilation beyond Advent Children. Crisis Core kind of interests me but the rest may as well have never been published for all the attention I'm going to give it.Quote:
In this case, I feel it is important. I never felt that Hojo got enjoyment out of the torture of his victims from experiments. He enjoyed gaining knowledge and he used people to acquire this cause he felt the scientific findings far outweigh the basic rights of life he used to obtain such knowledge. Also, Lucrecia took part of the experiments of her own free will so I don't feel we should be handing out sympathy for her.Quote:
>>> There is no need for a character to explicitly say what is really obvious..Quote:
Originally Posted by The Man
Kefka, tortures people for the pure enjoyment of it. Other villains kill and torture in order to accomplish goals but Kefka did it cause he felt it was fun. There was rarely little method to his madness. He is a sociopath who feels he is a superior being to others. He purposely goes overboard and torches and demolishes any life he comes across. After becoming a god, he keeps humanity alive only so he can enjoy torturing and killing them slowly. In the end he tells your party that their is no meaning to existence and decides to end all life on the planet cause he feels life is a mistake.
Hojo also killed Dr Gast to get Ifalna and Aeris. And performed all those experiments to prove the Jenova Reunion theory, where all the subjects just jumped off a cliff to their death. And one would be naive to believe he only experimented on Lucrecia, Red, Aeris and Ifalna. Hojo was a truly nasty piece of work.
All of those experiments, as cruel as they are, had the underlying motivation of being performed for knowledge and power. Kefka, on the other hand, had no motivation for his poisoning of Doma other than pure sadism. Hojo is cruel, but Kefka is crueller because the only thing he cares about is causing other people suffering. Even his pursuit of power is only carried out as a means to the end of allowing him to cause people even more suffering.
Theres a lot of terrible villians who did horrible acts in the final fantasy games, but if I had to choose who was the most cruel it would probably be Kefka. As mentioned before, he did evil acts like the other villians, but unlike them he sometimes did it comepletely for the fun and not for a motive or goal.
"Perhaps this is a man even you don't understand. See, some men aren't looking for anything logical, they can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn".
Kefka is Final Fantasies version of the Joker.
I agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Man
The other FF villains, make people suffer to reach power, and then use this power for their own ends. Kefka on the other hand, make people suffer to reach power, and then use this power to make even more people suffer.
Then I guess the "Ivalice Aliance", the Kingdom Heart games, and the future FFXIII Fabula Nova Crystalis games, doesn't even exist to you. Right?Quote:
Originally Posted by The ManThis.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf KannoHe probably just agree's with me about the quality of the Compilation being very poor and mostly a marketing ploy to bleed money from a successful game.Quote:
Originally Posted by black orb>>> Huh?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Man
Well, I argue that the quality of the Ivalice alliance and Kingdom Hearts game exempt them from the claim of non-existence. My personal issue with the Compilation is that its not really adding anything to the story that wasn't perfectly dealt with in the original game. Instead it keeps adding new things and retconning the original title to "shoe-horn" these new ideas into the VII universe. The other problem is that the only purpose these new ideas create is the excuse to create more games regarding story elements no one cares about. (Like Genesis)
The other serials escape this cause they were designed from the start with sequels in mind or at least had enough ambiguous elements to warrant a plausible sequel. VII as far as I'm concerned, is a complete game. There was really nothing left to say afterwards and I feel the Compilation is proving that even the creators are having a hard time tying up loose ends from VII cause they don't really exist.
Crisis Core for instance doesn't tell us really anything about Zack that we didn't already know. What little new information we got is irrelevant in context to the main game. The Compilation isn't really expanding the story of VII and building onto it. Its a different entity that only supports itself from a story standpoint. The only thing it has in common with VII is that it features characters from VII but overall I feel the Compilation is based off VII and not actually a continuation of it; since it has changed so many elements. The quality is just really lacking imo.
>>> If those games were fan-made or something i`d give you that, but like it or not they are now part of the wide FF universe..Quote:
Originally Posted by The ManThis.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf KannoHe probably just agree's with me about the quality of the Compilation being very poor and mostly a marketing ploy to bleed money from a successful game.Quote:
Originally Posted by black orb>>> Huh? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by The Man
I'd say Hojo out of the ones I've played. Kefka sounds pretty nasy, but I haven't played FFVI yet.
I can ignore them since they are poorly made and beyond featuring characters from VII, have little to do with the actual game. The Compilation world is hardly the same as VII's world in terms of design and tone. If SE can't put in the effort to make them quality products; I hardly see why I should accept them, cause they have FF in the title. :rolleyes2Quote:
Originally Posted by black orb
That, plus they don't contain the entire original Compilation team. As long as Sakaguchi isn't on the team, it's not a proper FFVII sequel to me.
Sephiroth, because he ripped my heart out at the end of disk one of FF7.
Him, and Squall... what an ass!
>>> I would like to know what is a quality product by your standards,Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
for me SE are still the ones who make some of the best rpgs out there.
and is there any FF sequel that you would have really accepted??.
>>> yeah, Sakaguchi cant be arsed to work in every sequel and all the games that have "Final fantasy" in the title, that would be just impossible.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Man
As long as he worries about the main FF games im grateful.
Sakaguchi has had no involvement with any Final Fantasy title after FFX-2 and Tactics Advance, unless you count the DS remake of FFIIIj. He hasn't even worked for Square since 2003; he left the company before it merged with Enix.
Shadow is an asshole, he vanishes right as you need him
I actually accept the Ivalice Alliance to some extent. Mostly cause the world of Ivalice was designed from the beginning to be expanded. Or at least it had stronger elements that would allow franchising it to be plausible. VII was a one shot story, a good one at that. It didn't really need anymore expansion and judging by the Compilation, even the writers are having a hard time expanding the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by black orb>>> I would like to know what is a quality product by your standards,Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
for me SE are still the ones who make some of the best rpgs out there.
and is there any FF sequel that you would have really accepted??.
CC could have told us intimate details concerning SOLDIER and the Wutai war. Instead we get a few blurbs and then we focus the rest of the game on an emo Sephiroth wannabe.
AC could have been a short heartfelt story about the characters coming to terms with the events of the game. Instead, it was a 90 minute fanservice snuff film, with a lame plot, pretentious dialogue, terrible acting, and basically retreading on ground that was resolved in the second half of the original game. None of it was necessary but fans just needed to see Cloud fight Sephiroth, again.
BC introduces a whole slew of characters who don't exist in the original, never really explains what happened to them and created a drawn out story about AVALANCHE's origins that has no really bearing on the main game's plot, since its all resolved in BC and covered up so no one in later games would need to know, unless we made a sequel where these details came to light...
To be fair, I would say Sakaguchi hasn't had any real hands on involvement in an FF since IX and FF:TSW. X was started at the same time as IX and with Sakaguchi working both on IX and the movie, I doubt he had much involvement with X or XI past their inception. He's just an Executive Producer, so I doubt he was very much involved. After the FF movie bombed, I'm pretty sure he got shoved into the "window seat" and about that time he started working towards creating Mistwalker. If memory serves me correct, he founded Mistwalker in 2001, though it didn't become active until 2004.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Man
AC was an action movie with cool fights on motorcycles and explosions and stuff, it doesn't really need a good plot IMHO.
Exactly, a fanboy snuff film ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessweeee♪
Rikku. She just won't shut up.
I say Hojo is more cruel then Kefka. He maybe did more sadistic things but he had the excuse that he became mad because of that magic infusion experiment. Hojo was at full conscious when he was being naughty.
yep, I'd pretty much agree with all of that, except you misspelled his name :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
Madness doesn't make a person any less cruel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Purunyuu~~
Insanity is not really an excuse, he knew fully well what his actions would bring and purposely did them for the pleasure of it. Also, we do not know what Kefka was like prior to the experiments. He could have been just as arrogant and cruel as before, the experiments could have just pushed him to the point where he really believed he was a superior being. Kefka, like several other villains justify his actions cause he believes himself to be a superior being. He felt that way even before becoming a god.Quote:
Originally Posted by Purunyuu~~
Good point.
But if I remember correctly, Kefka was a very shy and quiet person before those experiments. It wasn't Kefka fault that he became that way. Hojo, on the other hand decided that on his own. That's why I think he is more cruel.
The game never really states what Kefka was like before the experiments, just that he wasn't quite the same after the experiments. Its a shame too cause it would have been interesting to see.