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The talk of like and dislike of various genres on music in the Loud Music While Driving thread has got me thinking.
I consider myself to have a rather eclectic taste in music. I believe that there's good and bad music in every genre. Every genre I've ever heard had just confirmed this opinion. So, this raises the question:
If a person dislikes or dismisses an entire genre of music, does that make them prejudiced against that genre?
That depends on whether they've given it a fair chance or not. But I've yet to encounter the genre I universally love or universally hate.
No, it just means they don't like that genre. There's nothing wrong with that. You can't expect everyone to like everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Ceej
For example, I dislike country, rap, and contemporary Christian music. That doesn't mean I have a problem if someone else listens to it though.
No song is indicative of its genre. If you take any two songs from the same "genre," you cannot use one to judge the other. Then you take those two songs and use them to judge the entire genre? That's prejudice.Quote:
Originally Posted by MomijiNo, it just means they don't like that genre. There's nothing wrong with that. You can't expect everyone to like everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Ceej
I'm not saying they have to like every song I like or dislike every song I like. What I'm saying is they have no right to judge an entire genre based on the two songs that they've heard from it.
EDIT: I have a solution to this problem. We just remove genres from music and all music falls under one genre. That genre is music. Then, people can no longer judge an entire group of music, but only individual songs or artists.
FURTHER EDIT: I've had it up to here with going to a music store and having to check three or four different genres where the artist could be because there are no real genres anymore. They should just put all the music in the store in alphabetical order and scrap the whole genre system.
I think genres are still valuable, although admittedly they can be somewhat obstructive from time to time.
As for eclecticism, it has nothing to do with prejudice. Eclecticism is about taste, and there can be no prejudice in taste, as long as the taste is honest. Neither does disliking a genre have to mean prejudice. For example, I'm not particularly found of the country genre, but I do have the common sense to add to that: in general. I can name several country artists that I love, but I know that I tend not to like the majority of country music because of its general sound. I still give country artists a chance, or five chances.
Where prejudice comes in is when you dismiss (or for that matter, decide you like) a song based upon any category it may fall into, or an array of songs based upon your experience with a subdivision of it.
I have yet to encounter a country song which I even remotely enjoy.
Honky Tonk Badonkadonk.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ouch!
I stopped using genres to classify musical catagories when things like Nu Metal, Viking Metal, Protopunk and Desert Rock became actual genres. The entire idea behind genres has pretty much turned into a big mess.
I think so, yes. I have heard Ska and still don't like it, but that doesn't mean Ska isn't for me (not bloody likely though)
I have dated a girl who likes Country music, so I have been forced to listen to that filth. Since I do not like this person, I have associated Country music with her. That's as prejudiced and illogical as you can get in terms of stereotypical prejudice.
Also it should be pointed out that while I could probably point out hip hop songs that have a good message, that are not 'crap', it does mean that I could convince a 'rocker' that he likes 'hip hop' just because of one or two songs. So it goes both ways.
if a song doesn't indicate a genre, what is the point of saying there's a genre?
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Originally Posted by RubyLapiz
Exactly my point.
Well... Not my original point, but rather one of my subpoints.
but there are songs that have similar musical qualitities x.x
I find that to be a bit of a hassle. It's much easier to say 'I dislike country music, but there is a possibility there is a song or artist I MAY like' than saying 'I don't like _____, _____, _____, ______, ______, ______....' and so on.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Ceej
So yes, while all of music is a genre in and of itself, that still leaves the subgenres to compare and contrast different styles of music. I could say that Metallica and IOSYS are comparable because they fall under the genre of music, but since they have absolutely no similarities otherwise (IOSYS is a Japanese doujinshi technopop group that mainly does remixes of Touhou music).They sound nothing alike. That's why genres exist-- to make things easier, which goes back to my point: it's not prejudice to dislike a style/genre of music, you just dislike it and that's all there is to it.
A little predujice for or against a particular genre of music isn't really a problem in my opinion x)
If they have no similarities other than their genre, then you have just proven my point. Nay. All my points.Quote:
Originally Posted by Momiji
Saying "I don't like genre X," isn't saying "I don't like a single song in genre X."
jussie, you should've used another word than 'genre' because you made him think he's right :p
Good point.Quote:
Originally Posted by RubyLapiz
No. What I said and what you see are two apparently different things. While it is true, (still following my earlier example) Metallica and IOSYS both fall under the CATEGORY (how's that?) of general music, they sound NOTHING alike, thus causing a difference between how they sound, which is why categories (I'm refusing to use the 'g' word, because it apparently sparks delusions in your mind of you thinking you're always right) exist-- to put it simply, not all music is the same, and thus they must be categorized as such. Without general categories to place artists/types of music in, and putting it all in the general group of music as you said, does nothing but make it more generalized and confusing.Quote:
Originally Posted by The CeejIf they have no similarities other than their genre, then you have just proven my point. Nay. All my points.Quote:
Originally Posted by Momiji
That's the way people who talk to me imply it.
"Turn off that -insert genre here- music. -Same genre they said before- is crap."
I tend to reply with, "So, you don't like the one song you hear, or maybe you're just not giving it a chance. You're prejudiced."
If only they'd have been nicer and less prejudiced about it. I may have accommodated them with a different song or genre.
The way that you're so adamant that genre is a bad thing really scares me.
Genre induces prejudice, anger, assholism, douchebaggery, and the impossibility of finding most artists in a music store.
I'm sorry if I think this trumps any benefits it may have.
Let me ask you a question:
What's the difference between country and southern rock?
What genre does Linkin Park fall in?
Why did the "rock band" think they were playing country and the "country girl" think she was playing rock at the event I talked about in my other Lounge thread?
I could keep asking these types of unanswerable questions all day, but I must go to work, so I think three examples is enough.
EDIT: Sorry that I'm skipping over a lot of posts. They're coming in so fast, that I don't even realize they're there until later.
the difference between country and southern rock is teh difference between Garth Brook and CCR imo :D
Genre is subjective, but it's still useful in certain situations. By labelling my music in genres, I can be more or less certain I will hear a certain sound or style in listening to them, even if they aren't all songs that I like.
Different influences.Quote:
What's the difference between country and southern rock?
Quote:
What genre does Linkin Park fall in?
Crap. They are most often put into the Nu Metal catagory because of their blend with hip hop and rock music. Though some of their songs are just categorized as Alternative rock because they do not use hip hop lyrics in all their songs.
Oops, sorry, were those supposed to be unanswerable? Bands should not be categorized into genres because every band plays a variety of music that differs from song to song. If you look anywhere that has a listing of genres that bands qualify as, you'll notice that every band out there has at least three different genres listed for themselves.
That's called socializing my friend, if you have a different opinion than others it will cause all the symptoms you described. Its just life, I can't say I feel removing the whole damn system will improve things. Its just human nature to categorize things.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Ceej
I'm pretty much in agreement of Bunny and RubyLapiz on this one.
So your thread title is saying "Lack of being like me equals prejudice" technically right? It just helps back up this crazy thought that I have that you think everyone who does not posses characteristics of yours is a "bad" person.
Anyways, to actually get into this, no, not being like you doesn't make me prejudice.
I consider myself to have a pretty strange musical taste myself and just because someone says "yeah I listen to mainly rock and I don't really listen to much else" doesn't make me think less of them. I just think "ok, they probably don't listen to half the stuff I listen to, so I'll talk to them about what they probably listen to and what we have in common instead of calling him a close minded asshole for not listening to what I listen to"
which is pretty much what this thread's about, right? :p
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Ceej
Genres are a way of compartmentalising music into categories in order to enable listeners to judge a particular artist or song without listening to a great deal more from them, because that's how human beings think. Just because "ridiculous" genres exist doesn't mean that it doesn't work, nonetheless, to help a user form an educated opinion of what they're listening to.
And there's no reason why a genre isn't valid - a genre is not defined by the songs in it, but rather a song is categorised into a genre. To say that songs can't be grouped according to similar features is like saying that classifying food into areas in a supermarket is invalid, since it should all just be considered "food." Obviously genres aren't a black-and-white thing - you'd have to be a fool to argue that - and there's always going to be some crossover between them, but to me there's a pretty clear distinction between the double-kicking and distorted guitars of a metal song and the thumping bass and atmospheric synths of a trance song.
Southern rock is heavily rooted in the blues. You're also not going to find country songs with the virtuosic multiple lead guitars that you see in archetypal southern rock bands such as Lynyrd Skynyrd.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Ceej
You think of music genres like each one is a completely separate thing, and it's not like that at all. Of course some genres are going to be close to each other, or subgenres of other categories, and some are going to be crosses between other genres, etc.
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i2.../music_map.gif
Including the inability to find what I'm looking for in a music store? Yeah. I get your point, but I had to bring that up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf KannoThat's called socializing my friend, if you have a different opinion than others it will cause all the symptoms you described. Its just life, I can't say I feel removing the whole damn system will improve things. Its just human nature to categorize things.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Ceej
Very good point. Let me think about that for a while and reorganize my thoughts and see if I can't develop a new opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by o_O
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EDIT:
I was hoping someone else would have replied as I wanted to do this in a new post, but okay.
I've had some time to think, and this is my newly founded opinion, so I apologize if it's a little disorganized.
Video games have genres as well, and I'm not a big fan of first person shooters. I prefer RPG's, or rather, when RPG's were still RPG's. However, that's gameplay. And, the games are all stored in alphabetical order on the shelf, and not by genre.
Movies, it depends on where you go. Sometimes, they're stored by genre, and sometimes they're kept together. Movies are a bit more like music in the sense that it's a passive activity rather than active like video games. I'm more eclectic there, than with video games, but I like more movies out of some genres than others. I've never dismissed an entire genre of movies.
So, yeah. I guess genre can be a good thing. It helps you get an idea of what the music is like, but it still can't be used as a definitive answer of whether or not the music will be good. Even if you don't like Genre X, that doesn't mean you can judge Song Z before you hear it simply because it's in Genre X. And I still think we should have either one or two sections in a music store. Actually, two should work. Like our library. There's the classical music section and then there's the popular music section which is all the other music. Music is so much easier to find at the library than in the music stores, and that's just wrong.
So, maybe, someone can dislike a genre without disliking all the songs in said genre, but as long as they give any given song a fair hearing regardless of their opinion on the genre in which the song lies, that's fair. However, if they dismiss the entire genre or refuse to listen to a song simply because it's in said genre, that's prejudice.
It depends on whether they disagree with my opinion.
No, I mean even that, due to the Ku Klux Klan existence; you are not allowed to find the music you want. They switch around the genres and then blame it on their enemies... :shifty:Quote:
Originally Posted by The CeejIncluding the inability to find what I'm looking for in a music store? Yeah. I get your point, but I had to bring that up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf KannoThat's called socializing my friend, if you have a different opinion than others it will cause all the symptoms you described. Its just life, I can't say I feel removing the whole damn system will improve things. Its just human nature to categorize things.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Ceej
If I hear a thousand rap songs and I hate them all, there's nothing wrong with not wanting to bother with song number 1001.
I would bother with it. I hate rap, I reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaly hate it. But I still except TypoonThaReapa (or w/e) and I can relate with Eminem's second CD.
There is always hope, even for country. Man, I feel like a woman.